John Lisle

I actually work and therefore everyone's going to praise me because I've cured, you know, schizophrenia or whatever it is.

Yeah, I don't remember specifically for him in that case.

I mean, many of the people who are either running the subprojects or approving them, like Sidney Gottlieb, Gottlieb took a lot of LSD.

When the CIA got LSD, before it gave it to other people, the first thing they did was try it for themselves to see what actually happened.

So Sidney Gottlieb took it multiple times before he ever even gave it to people to understand what it was like.

Wow.

Wow.

And one of the physician who was the attending physician the first time he took LSD, because they did it in kind of a controlled setting with several other people there, a guy named Harold Abramson.

And for anyone listening who knows much about the Frank Olson incident, Frank Olson is a guy that would later be dosed with LSD.

He would go out the hotel window in New York and

And Harold Abramson is the guy who Sidney Gottlieb and Robert Lashbrook, they took to New York to get treatment from Harold Abramson afterwards.

So he had this CIA connection.

Wow.

Yeah, for you and Cameron, I feel like he definitely lacked empathy, whether that's some kind of medical thing or whatever.

There are a couple of people in the book, I think, who are like that.

One of them is you and Cameron.

Another is George White, who is in charge of Operation Midnight Climax.

He was in it just for the fun of it.

He would dose his own friends with LSD just to see what would happen.

You know, there's one story in the book.