John Lisle

Wow.

Yeah.

So he ended up suing the CIA, but the judge said that he couldn't prove that he had been dosed with drugs so they couldn't rule in his favor.

And so that was it.

Oh, Jesus.

Yeah, but there are, I mean, there are dozens of stories like that.

Yeah.

Just dosing up the punch bowl, ruining lives.

And he knows how messed up it is.

Because by that point, he had done this to multiple people and caused them to lose a lot, you know.

So he knew what he was doing at that point.

Yeah.

So I think he's probably the most heinous of the individuals in this book.

All of them are to a degree.

Sidney Gottlieb...

I don't think he's as heinous in the sense that he's intentionally trying to harm people.

He thinks he's doing this for a patriotic reason.

He thinks MKUltra is actually going to help us defend ourselves against the Soviet Union.

There is some moral justification, at least he has for himself, so it's not all just whatever George White is doing.

But at the same time, Sidney Gottlieb doesn't really take any responsibility for what happens to these people.