John Lisle

Basically, the way that MKUltra was structured with these subprojects, Sidney Gottlieb wasn't running these experiments himself.

What he would do is he would fund other people to do experiments.

And most of the time, these people were experts in their own field.

So they were like reputable people.

Ewan Cameron was the head of the American Psychiatric Association, the Canadian Psychiatric Association, and the World Psychiatric Association.

He was like the most famous psychiatrist in the world, and he was being funded by this.

So Sidney Gottlieb thought, well, if I can fund reputable psychiatrists or drug researchers to do these experiments, then it's up to them to provide the safety and the procedures, you know, to keep these patients safe.

It's not my job.

They're the ones who are conducting the experiments.

That's how he justified it to himself.

But that's how the structure of MKUltra typically worked.

Exactly.

Gottlieb is funding people and he's not even funding them directly.

In most cases, what's happening is he's using cut out organizations.

So he's giving the money to.

Of course.

One of them is called the Getschiker Fund.

One of them is called the National Institutes of Mental Health.

And then the CIA sets up its own cut out organization called the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology, which is just a.

It's just a made-up organization.