John Lisle

Why didn't you raise this to higher ups?

Why didn't you do something?

And he said, I was worried about bringing up anything that could cause me to lose my job.

He knew that if he brought this up, he'd basically be retaliated against, and so that was it.

So there's problems with external oversight, but also internal oversight.

The internal oversight has to be able to bring that kind of stuff up.

And another lack of internal oversight is the fact that Sidney Gottlieb and Richard Helms, they could destroy all these files with no repercussions.

It's just completely illegal.

It's against the CIA's own internal regulations.

In fact, in these depositions that I found, some of the most colorful parts of the depositions happen with the lawyers.

The lawyers just get into heated arguments back and forth.

That makes the book really colorful.

At certain times, Joseph Rao is this old civil rights lawyer.

He took on this case basically to fight against the CIA.

At certain points, he basically says to the other lawyers representing the CIA, I'm going to punch you in the nose.

And he says, I'm never giving this up.

I'm going to mortgage my house if it means I have to keep on fighting you.

But there's a certain point where he basically lays into Gottlieb, asking him, why did you destroy the files?

Why did you destroy the files?

Sidney Gottlieb comes up with several excuses.