John Lisle

Wow.

Yeah, and it's – you know, the main point to make is that it's not –

The main point is just that human psychology is human psychology.

Just because you're a scientist or a cult member or whatever, it's not as if you're immune to any of these tendencies.

Anyone is subject to them.

It's just human psychology.

So I tend to think of Thomas Kuhn in terms of psychology instead of philosophy.

Yeah.

One of the ironic things is I don't think Sidney Gottlieb is particularly successful in creating like a Manchurian candidate and controlling someone like a marionette and getting them to commit an assassination or something like that.

However, there are ways to manipulate people and to influence them to behave in certain ways.

And the typical ways that we associate with like cult behavior, there's a guy named Stephen Hassan.

Yeah, I've had him on.

Oh, have you?

OK.

Yeah.

Yeah.

His bite model, behavior, information, thought, emotion.

I think that's a very good model for understanding how actual mind control actually takes place.

You know, behavior being like controlling where someone can go, what they can do, what they can eat, when they can sleep.

Information being restricting someone from accessing outside sources of information.