John Lisle

But if they do, teaching them to distrust that information, even if they do access it.

Well, he was actually in a cult.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

He was in the Moonies.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thought control is like reinforcing previous patterns of thought.

So saying mantras, reciting prayers, creating an us versus them mentality.

Yeah.

And then emotion control is like instilling in someone certain emotions to make them beholden to the cult or to whatever it is.

Guilt, fear, shame, anger, loyalty, dependence, that kind of thing.

And so...

A combination of these four factors is, I think, the real mind control, how people actually manipulate people, how especially cults are able to manipulate their members to do all kinds of really insane things like cut off their genitals or commit murders or anything like that.

I think it's much more influenced by those four factors than it is some kind of LSD, you know, mind control, Sidney Gottlieb, MKUltra type thing.

I don't think so, no.

Okay, no, I haven't heard of that.

And Jolly West started that, right?

That was the point?