John Morgan

And think about how profound that is to say that ultimate reality is inherently ultimately relational. And that, therefore, our relationship to it has to be primordially a relational thing. And this is very, very hard for our way of thinking because we have got into the mode, and for all kinds of historical reasons we don't need, of thinking, you know, of that

And think about how profound that is to say that ultimate reality is inherently ultimately relational. And that, therefore, our relationship to it has to be primordially a relational thing. And this is very, very hard for our way of thinking because we have got into the mode, and for all kinds of historical reasons we don't need, of thinking, you know, of that

What there really is are individual things. There's no relationality. This is, of course, normalism. All of that's in our head. And then that gives us a dualism because the mind has the patterns, the world. And there's something going on here in this language. And I want to slow down a little bit and get at, right, these terms are very familiar. And I think that's, I understand.

What there really is are individual things. There's no relationality. This is, of course, normalism. All of that's in our head. And then that gives us a dualism because the mind has the patterns, the world. And there's something going on here in this language. And I want to slow down a little bit and get at, right, these terms are very familiar. And I think that's, I understand.

what they're there, but their familiarity is actually in some sense problematic because I think they're, it's easy, like these are all nouns and it's easy to think we're talking about four things. These are attempts to, disclose, and all four of them, I feel they're playing off against each other. The relation between them is as important as any one of them.

what they're there, but their familiarity is actually in some sense problematic because I think they're, it's easy, like these are all nouns and it's easy to think we're talking about four things. These are attempts to, disclose, and all four of them, I feel they're playing off against each other. The relation between them is as important as any one of them.

And all of them are playing off against each other and trying to call us into a new way of trying to relate to ultimate reality. And so, like when I try, because Jesus makes these claims, too. He talks about, I'm the light of the world, abundant life, like all of it. And this, to me,

And all of them are playing off against each other and trying to call us into a new way of trying to relate to ultimate reality. And so, like when I try, because Jesus makes these claims, too. He talks about, I'm the light of the world, abundant life, like all of it. And this, to me,

If I could hear these words again, I could get to a place where I think the idea could have more real relevance to me. And so we live in metaphor. Metaphors aren't . Like we've just begun, but I hope this, you know, this discourse isn't too hard, but I hope we understand it. I hope you see my point. I hope you get what I'm saying. Like try and say anything. Metaphor is not an ornament.

If I could hear these words again, I could get to a place where I think the idea could have more real relevance to me. And so we live in metaphor. Metaphors aren't . Like we've just begun, but I hope this, you know, this discourse isn't too hard, but I hope we understand it. I hope you see my point. I hope you get what I'm saying. Like try and say anything. Metaphor is not an ornament.

It is part of the fundamental grammar of our cognition. And these are more than metaphors. These are metaphors that are trying to transcend themselves and they're trying to point. And I'd like to also, I mean, I'd like to try and make sure we're not only paying attention to the text, we're paying attention to what is the mental framing that we're bringing to this text.

It is part of the fundamental grammar of our cognition. And these are more than metaphors. These are metaphors that are trying to transcend themselves and they're trying to point. And I'd like to also, I mean, I'd like to try and make sure we're not only paying attention to the text, we're paying attention to what is the mental framing that we're bringing to this text.

I want this text to challenge me and I assume that's what everybody is doing here. And so what is our stance, our orientation towards it such that we can be appropriate to it, we can really listen to it very deeply?

I want this text to challenge me and I assume that's what everybody is doing here. And so what is our stance, our orientation towards it such that we can be appropriate to it, we can really listen to it very deeply?

I think that's helpful. But what I'm saying is, think about what we're saying here. Imagine going into a room of physicists and saying ultimate reality is love, light, logos, life, right? They're going to look at you and they'll either, well, that's very nice. It's a platitude and they don't really believe it. But they act it out in their life. But that's the point I want to make.

I think that's helpful. But what I'm saying is, think about what we're saying here. Imagine going into a room of physicists and saying ultimate reality is love, light, logos, life, right? They're going to look at you and they'll either, well, that's very nice. It's a platitude and they don't really believe it. But they act it out in their life. But that's the point I want to make.

But these things are not out there metaphors. You can't do science without these principles of intelligibility. And so I'm trying to wake us back up to... John's not making a scientific claim. I'm not saying that. That's ridiculous. But he's not saying something that's irrelevant to the scientific world.

But these things are not out there metaphors. You can't do science without these principles of intelligibility. And so I'm trying to wake us back up to... John's not making a scientific claim. I'm not saying that. That's ridiculous. But he's not saying something that's irrelevant to the scientific world.

Yes. Thanks, James. Exactly. And also, this can be easily trivialized. That's my concern here. Oh, yes, that's very nice. Yeah, light of love. Oh, we like love. Right? And, you know, this, like, imagine, imagine proposing that relationality is that from which things emerge rather than things are that from which relations emerge.

Yes. Thanks, James. Exactly. And also, this can be easily trivialized. That's my concern here. Oh, yes, that's very nice. Yeah, light of love. Oh, we like love. Right? And, you know, this, like, imagine, imagine proposing that relationality is that from which things emerge rather than things are that from which relations emerge.