John R. Miles

And I think in some ways, this kind of correlates to this social muscle atrophy in the form of risks.

And so I wanted to ask, based on your research, how is this showing up differently across generations?

And do you think

that Gen Z is really reporting significantly higher struggles in this area.

I want to do a follow on this.

So a lot of my work is focused on the science of matter or belonging.

And I really believe, as you were citing, weak social skills are actively driving turnover.

I also think that the way an employee feels, do they feel seen, valued and connected is also driving turnover.

an undercurrent here and as part of a mattering deficit that is happening to so many companies.

Would you agree with that?

I want to talk about one of the most striking stories I found in your book.

It was about a CEO who became beloved during the pandemic.

Not because he was nailing his speeches or anything else, but because he let his kids interrupt, the dog was barking, and I've got two sitting here besides me who I'm glad are not barking.

And we just fumbled through Zoom call after Zoom call.

What did all of that change for his employees?

Well, the reason I brought it up since we were talking about mattering is I think that CEO story really is at the heart of the mattering deficit inside organization where so many of the leaders I had worked with seemed so distance polished and unrelatable that it made working for them difficult.

So how do you think good awkwardness helps close that gap?

We just talked about this CEO, but how could other people like embrace this and in turn make people feel like they matter?

Hannah, you and I haven't had a chance to talk about this, but when you were younger, you grew up feeling different.

And I understand your hair, your lunch, your music tastes all made you feel different.