John Ralston

We'll get him next time. And he always had the next steps in mind. And yes, he was willing to use very ruthless tactics against his own allies. And he was actually brilliant, looking back on it, at keeping that caucus, that democratic caucus in line. And he had some obstreperous folks in there. And I talk a lot in the book about his relationship with Joe Lieberman.

When the caucus wanted to oust Lieberman after he went with John McCain and how he played the long game there. Obamacare might not be the law of the land if he hadn't done that. His relationship with Lieberman and with guys like Max Baucus and all of that stuff, he's keeping them in line. He's using hardball tactics against, as you say, even his own side. But a lot of these people that are engaged in this sort of locking of horns with him don't actually realize what he's doing to them.

Until they're on the other side of it. And I love how you get him, you get Reid to say, like, in reflecting on that time from 2004 to 2006, when Reid and Pelosi are saving social security, one of the Republicans they really have to contend with at the time is Bill Frist. And Reid tells you, I'm assuming this is from an interview with you, tells you like, oh, Bill Frist was such a nice man, but like,

He wasn't very politically savvy. Basically, I'm so sorry that I had to completely run rings around him and absolutely defeat him at everything he was trying to do, but the poor guy, he just didn't have the chops. That's so Harry Reid.

In fact, at the end of that quote, I believe, is, so I messed with him. And he said it with relish, right? I mean, he enjoyed doing that with Frist. And there was one press conference that one of his staffers told me about, where he had won a battle with Frist, and he could barely contain his smile. And his staff was kind of giving him the, you know, don't do that, don't.

Don't do that. But Harry Reid loved to win, and when he won, he was not afraid to brag about it.

You know, John, one of the things that I really hadn't ever put into words before, I hadn't really like put my finger on it before reading your book, but it always, I think, sort of flummoxed me about Harry Reid, because I absolutely share your view of him as like an archetypal democratic fighter from whom Democrats today can learn something. I absolutely believe that. But I always felt like it was like hard for me to explain Harry.

the power of Harry Reid to people in the moment, in part because he was not charismatic. And I don't mean it in a mean way. And I know that he was charismatic enough to win lots of elections and, you know, and to rise to the levels that he did in politics and to set up the Nevada political machine that nobody's ever been able to contend with. I know that he was very accomplished. But like you say in the book at one point,

Oh no, it wasn't in the book. It was when we were in Nevada together in 2010. You told me, and we put this on the air, I looked at the transcript of it just the other day as I was finishing the book. You told me in 2010, you know, he's not good in public.

It's such a crazy thing for a politician this complex, this powerful, this effective to not actually be very good in public. And he had a very soft-spoken voice and he had lots of verbal gaffes, said lots of stuff. You described him as not being able to edit himself. He didn't have very much verbal self-control. And he came across as kind of this shuffling old guy in a way.

And that made it hard. I think it flummoxed a lot of people in the national media in terms of understanding his power. And so I wonder if you think, when we think about Democratic Party leadership in particular –

We're too focused on charisma and on who's good on television and who's good at retail politicking. And Democrats in particular just don't have a way to understand or celebrate people whose strength is political brawling and background skills and mastery of the rules.

I described him several times, and by the way, he never complained about this description, as charismatically challenged. And I think you're absolutely right about how a lot of the national media, there are a few who understood him, but most of them saw this kind of milquetoast guy who would make these verbal gaffes, wasn't charismatic, didn't like going on,

the Sunday shows. He went on a few times, but he was happy to let Chuck Schumer do that, because Chuck Schumer loved doing that. But what Harry Reid's public presence belied was not only how steely, tough he was, but also how he had in private interactions, Rachel, if he was one-on-one with other senators, he knew how to connect with people.

You wouldn't think that about Harry Reid, but he wrote, and I found this in his archive, hundreds, maybe thousands of personal notes, which he copied and put in his handwritten notes to these senators, talking about books, talking about current events, talking about their families. He never forgot birthdays, he never forgot...

He knew what buttons to press. And so he developed these relationships that would eventually pay off for him in legislation. And when he made his gaffes, and some of them were really, really bad gaffes, and some of them I think were strategic gaffes in a way, in the sense that he was willing to say what his caucus believed, but no one in his caucus had the gumption to say, and they were silently cheering him on for saying what he believed.

mitä he halusivat sanoa. Luulen, että hänellä oli erilaista eri tavoin, Rachel, ja se oli yksi niistä. Jos soittaisit Harryn Reedin harjoituksesta pressikonferenssissa tai TV-ohjelmassa,

Ja muun muassa, Rachel, jos voin mennä tarkemmin historiaan, joka on nyt melkein 40 vuotta vanha. Ensimmäinen rauha, jonka keskustelin Nevadaissa, oli Harry Reidin ensimmäinen rauha, jonka rauha oli valmisteltu Ronaldin Reaganin ja Paulin Lackshollin nimeltä Jim Santiniin.

Mietin Reedia ensimmäistä kertaa vuodesta 1986 ja en usko, että hän oli yksityiskohtainen. En tiedä paljon poliitikasta, mutta en usko, että hän oli yksityiskohtainen.

Hän oli niin rauhassa, että hän ei voinut laittaa kertomuksia yhdessä. Olen yllättynyt vain, jotta voin sanoa asiaa. Sitten tutustuin Santiniin, joka oli erittäin rauhallinen ja koulutettu hallitusjohtaja. Sanoin, että tämä rauha ei edes ole kovin kova. Ja tietysti Reid on voinut tämän rauhan ja seuraava on historia. Mutta hän aina laittoi hienoja ihmisiä ympäri hänestä. Hänellä oli hienoja kampanjoja, jotka auttoivat hänet karismaattisesti kokeilemaan.