Jon Lovett

Like, there's already been a bipartisan negotiation that has some modest reforms, right?

That is what they would be voting on.

It's paltry.

It's not nearly enough.

But because the funding for ICE has already been put through, it is not like—

a normal shutdown in which the shutdown slows them down.

Actually, these reforms applied on top of the funding would be more effective, not nearly effective enough, not nearly as far as we need to go, not resolving the problem, but would do more than a shutdown would.

That's just the truth.

Yeah, the... Like, you know, the...

There is this credibility problem in sort of both directions for Democrats and Senate Democrats led by Schumer, which is people think they'll cave, including the Republicans, right?

And so their demands carry a little bit less weight.

And then on top of that, given the level of

Corruption in that that department abolish ICE has gone from being kind of a minority view to in some polls, a majority view.

And even if you question that, it's obviously gained a lot more mainstream acceptance as a as a view.

So then why aren't Democrats trying to abolish ICE?

And obviously we are not going to be positioned to do that for a long time, but there is another problem under there because like, okay, you want to get rid of ICE.

Like what kind of immigration enforcement do you believe in?

What kind of immigration support, not as a compromise with Republicans for comprehensive immigration reform, what do you believe in?

interior immigration enforcement should look like at whatever level.

Maybe you think there shouldn't be much.