Jon McNeill

And what it means is you look over the shoulder of real customers who are using your product.

So sometimes you can't use it, and there's a lot of cases of that, but you want to see how an actual user thinks about using your product.

And when you look over their shoulder, you see all of the friction you're putting into that product, like how difficult it is really to find what you're looking for, to make the right clicks, do whatever.

And he has his senior executives do this on a really frequent basis.

So that they're getting the feedback loop through the eyes of the customer.

And oftentimes those customers will turn around and say, would you just fix this?

Or could you just do this for me?

And they get new product ideas too, where they would get to like an accountant doing the end of the month payroll close.

And one of them in this exercise turned to a senior manager and said, it'd be a whole lot easier if the payroll was just done by QuickBooks.

And boom, that idea was like right back into the senior management team discussion instantly.

Like, hey, I just heard this from a customer.

Should we get in the payroll business?

Now that's a huge business, we're into it.

But it came out of these like, just follow the customer home and watch them click and then have them tell you not only what's wrong with the product, but what's missing in the product.

Totally.

I'm on a board with a guy named Chip Berg.

Chip started his career at P&G.

He ended up being the CEO of Levi's, but he was famous at P&G for washing moms in kitchens, like you said.

And he and his team invented the Swiffer.

Because they were like, the mop sucks.