Jonah Goldberg

That's the gist.

That the facts they're presenting are true to the best of their knowledge.

And the bunch of judges, including conservative judges, saying, we can't give you that benefit of the doubt anymore because you guys are lying.

And I'm a both sides guy.

Like, I think these kinds of norm violations invite future norm violations.

And so that stuff really worries me.

And what Trump does with the midterm elections or tries to do or imply could just really mess things up, too.

So.

That's sort of where I'm at.

If you're looking for reasons for things I'm worried about.

It's very hard, right?

It is just very, very hard to see how you do that.

Look, I'm not, I'm still a sort of, I'm a right of center guy.

I've been conservative.

I was at National Review for 20 years.

I've lost all of my rooting interest in the Republican Party, but I haven't gained a lot of rooting interest in the Democratic Party, except as a way to sort of right the ship of the American political system.

And I've come to the conclusion that the only way you can have a sane Republican Party is

or a sane democratic party is if both parties are sane.

You can't just have one sane party because part of this has to do with for structural reasons having to do with primaries, part of it has to do with social media and the balkanizing of the landscape.

But the simple fact is, is that we live in a climate now where if one party is crazy, it gives permission to the other party to be crazy as well.