Jonathan Birch

And I don't rule out that some other animals might have something a bit like that, but I don't really think crabs do. And I think this is an example of something that is probably a lot more cognitively sophisticated than sentient.

And I don't rule out that some other animals might have something a bit like that, but I don't really think crabs do. And I think this is an example of something that is probably a lot more cognitively sophisticated than sentient.

Yeah, it's a bit like that for me as well. But I mean, there's always inner music playing. Yeah, very often. And then there's usually some line of thought running over the music. Not so much when I'm talking like this, because when I'm talking, it's like the inner monologue becomes the outer monologue. But in the rest of life, yeah, it's like I'm constantly having a conversation with myself. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a bit like that for me as well. But I mean, there's always inner music playing. Yeah, very often. And then there's usually some line of thought running over the music. Not so much when I'm talking like this, because when I'm talking, it's like the inner monologue becomes the outer monologue. But in the rest of life, yeah, it's like I'm constantly having a conversation with myself. Yeah.

But, yeah, I think the need here is to try and distinguish that, that sophisticated thing I have, from just the raw experiences that it's providing commentary on. And those raw experiences the crab may well have.

But, yeah, I think the need here is to try and distinguish that, that sophisticated thing I have, from just the raw experiences that it's providing commentary on. And those raw experiences the crab may well have.

I think it's a topic of ongoing research. I don't have much to add to that, I think. There's some looping. There's feedback loops. In the past, there were people who thought that the vocal cords were genuinely moving a little bit.

I think it's a topic of ongoing research. I don't have much to add to that, I think. There's some looping. There's feedback loops. In the past, there were people who thought that the vocal cords were genuinely moving a little bit.

behaviorists sort of had to think this right okay because they they couldn't really believe in true interiority so they had to say well what you think isn't in a monologue is actually a motor action being prepared and just getting to the tiniest stages but never coming out audibly but i think according to current theories not even that is happening it is genuinely internal it's engaging

behaviorists sort of had to think this right okay because they they couldn't really believe in true interiority so they had to say well what you think isn't in a monologue is actually a motor action being prepared and just getting to the tiniest stages but never coming out audibly but i think according to current theories not even that is happening it is genuinely internal it's engaging

some of those speech production processes, but they're never reaching the actual motor neurons.

some of those speech production processes, but they're never reaching the actual motor neurons.

Well, I don't know. But I mean, the point is really to say, well, even if your cat doesn't, it may nonetheless be sentient. Because when we're talking about sentience, we're talking about something much more basic than that. And of course, we have a tendency to strongly anthropomorphize our pets and to imagine our pets as little humans. And we can actually oppose that.

Well, I don't know. But I mean, the point is really to say, well, even if your cat doesn't, it may nonetheless be sentient. Because when we're talking about sentience, we're talking about something much more basic than that. And of course, we have a tendency to strongly anthropomorphize our pets and to imagine our pets as little humans. And we can actually oppose that.

We can resist that and say that's a bad idea, while nonetheless thinking they are sentient beings with ethically significant interests. Right.

We can resist that and say that's a bad idea, while nonetheless thinking they are sentient beings with ethically significant interests. Right.

I was one of the co-organizers of the New York one. Okay, good.

I was one of the co-organizers of the New York one. Okay, good.

So well established that it feels like... It feels like it's at least a year old, yeah.

So well established that it feels like... It feels like it's at least a year old, yeah.