Jonathan Chait

I mean, maybe they're just taking it slowly and going step by step and walking us to a place where CBS becomes like Fox News in five or 10 years.

Boy, I can see both those things happening at some point.

Putting you in charge of, I think Fox News is unlikely, but I could see another network.

Everyone should listen.

For my entire career, which is now a little over 30 years, I thought they were headed towards a very bad place.

And it turns out they were headed to an even worse place than I thought they were when I was way ahead of everyone else and saying, this party is pathological and cannot be trusted with power.

which is what I've thought for a very long time.

The difference I have with some people on the left is they think that belief is in tension with criticizing Democrats and progressives when I disagree with them.

And I don't think those things are in tension.

I think they go along together.

It's like, you know, the complaint I get is, why are you complaining about one or two weeds in our front yard when the neighbor's yard is nothing but weeds?

And my answer is that I don't want my yard to become like the neighbor's yard.

That's why I want to stop the weeds now before they overtake the entire yard.

And that's, in some ways, the most fundamental disagreement we've had on the left.

is that people who look at the Republican Party and its descent into fanaticism and authoritarianism, some people say, look how strong they are.

Look how successful they are.

That's a model.

Why aren't we doing what they are doing?

And others are saying that's a cautionary tale.

We can't allow ourselves to become that way because then even if you can win an election, which I don't think that helps you win elections, especially on the left, you can't govern.