Jonathan Courtney
👤 PersonPodcast Appearances
And I think what this and Stardew Valley have in common, what the two people who worked on these have in common, is that this is absolutely a labor of love where you never know if this is actually going to turn into a viable way of making money. But it's almost like an obsession that these people go down and actually start working on these things.
And I think what this and Stardew Valley have in common, what the two people who worked on these have in common, is that this is absolutely a labor of love where you never know if this is actually going to turn into a viable way of making money. But it's almost like an obsession that these people go down and actually start working on these things.
So my personal second but our third Tiny Team Award is going to the A Profound Waste of Time video game magazine. And how they do each episode, by the way, how they fund each issue, is by doing a Kickstarter for every issue. So that's also kind of cool. So they don't just bring out an issue. Every single issue gets funded through Kickstarter, which is kind of cool.
So my personal second but our third Tiny Team Award is going to the A Profound Waste of Time video game magazine. And how they do each episode, by the way, how they fund each issue, is by doing a Kickstarter for every issue. So that's also kind of cool. So they don't just bring out an issue. Every single issue gets funded through Kickstarter, which is kind of cool.
It's like a company where you've maybe used their product or you've maybe seen their product around, but you didn't really know that it was just a tiny little team behind it. So it's a tiny team doing something big and special that you may or may not know about. They're like flying under the radar, that kind of thing, you know?
It's like a company where you've maybe used their product or you've maybe seen their product around, but you didn't really know that it was just a tiny little team behind it. So it's a tiny team doing something big and special that you may or may not know about. They're like flying under the radar, that kind of thing, you know?
Yeah, you can see on the Kickstarter pages how much each edition makes. So there's some transparency around that. But a lot of the all of the past issues that I bought were not through Kickstarter. So those wouldn't be included. So I guess you could check the Kickstarter pages. Like, for example, there was 100. If we look here to issue four or issue. Yeah, I don't know. Actually, OK.
Yeah, you can see on the Kickstarter pages how much each edition makes. So there's some transparency around that. But a lot of the all of the past issues that I bought were not through Kickstarter. So those wouldn't be included. So I guess you could check the Kickstarter pages. Like, for example, there was 100. If we look here to issue four or issue. Yeah, I don't know. Actually, OK.
It's so cool.
It's so cool.
They're interviewing like the members of the Portal 2 team, the creator of Silent Hill. Come on. Come on.
They're interviewing like the members of the Portal 2 team, the creator of Silent Hill. Come on. Come on.
This is shoo-in. Yeah. It's too much. I have them all around my apartment. I bought every, or my girlfriend got them to me as a gift, but they are so unbelievably beautiful. I love them so much.
This is shoo-in. Yeah. It's too much. I have them all around my apartment. I bought every, or my girlfriend got them to me as a gift, but they are so unbelievably beautiful. I love them so much.
Yeah, exactly. I'm like, shit, I'm waiting for you to run out of ideas and run out of one so that I don't have to have another one. You know what I mean?
Yeah, exactly. I'm like, shit, I'm waiting for you to run out of ideas and run out of one so that I don't have to have another one. You know what I mean?
Oh, man. Yeah.
Oh, man. Yeah.
No, I'm looking it up right now.
No, I'm looking it up right now.
Yes. Yes, exactly. You think they're going to be bigger than they are, but then it turns out, you think it's like a hundred people, but then it turns out to be two people.
Yes. Yes, exactly. You think they're going to be bigger than they are, but then it turns out, you think it's like a hundred people, but then it turns out to be two people.
That's what I'm thinking about. It's interesting. Probably you see this with your audience. I definitely see it with my tiny audience, is that if I would post something like this, you'd have one or two idiots in the comments being like, oh, so pointless. We don't need another one of these things.
That's what I'm thinking about. It's interesting. Probably you see this with your audience. I definitely see it with my tiny audience, is that if I would post something like this, you'd have one or two idiots in the comments being like, oh, so pointless. We don't need another one of these things.
And the point that you should be, when you see something like this, something like card, what I am thinking is, what the hell? How can you make something like this differentiated when there's a million different like one page, I don't know, there's a million different ways to make websites also for a very low price.
And the point that you should be, when you see something like this, something like card, what I am thinking is, what the hell? How can you make something like this differentiated when there's a million different like one page, I don't know, there's a million different ways to make websites also for a very low price.
So I'm like, my gut reaction is to be like, why would you need another one of these? But actually the correct way to think about this is how is this actually working? And this is, I'm super curious about this because it absolutely does not appeal to me at all on first glance. But like, why do you think this works?
So I'm like, my gut reaction is to be like, why would you need another one of these? But actually the correct way to think about this is how is this actually working? And this is, I'm super curious about this because it absolutely does not appeal to me at all on first glance. But like, why do you think this works?
But why? How did that happen? Was it an accident or was it cultivated?
But why? How did that happen? Was it an accident or was it cultivated?
In the best way possible, when I'm looking at these card pages, it reminds me of GeoCities. Was it called GeoCities or GeoCities? It reminds me of that sort of retro... If you look at... We talk a lot about anti-trends. It's like the anti-trend of Squarespace. Squarespace is all about high quality. Everything's aligned perfectly. The templates are beautiful. Whereas this has this more...
In the best way possible, when I'm looking at these card pages, it reminds me of GeoCities. Was it called GeoCities or GeoCities? It reminds me of that sort of retro... If you look at... We talk a lot about anti-trends. It's like the anti-trend of Squarespace. Squarespace is all about high quality. Everything's aligned perfectly. The templates are beautiful. Whereas this has this more...
Yeah. And it's super cool as well because they're often like family-owned businesses or like it's a couple or it's like a brother and sister or it's like two high school friends. And I just think that's like a nice heartwarming kind of story as well.
Yeah. And it's super cool as well because they're often like family-owned businesses or like it's a couple or it's like a brother and sister or it's like two high school friends. And I just think that's like a nice heartwarming kind of story as well.
rugged, homemade GeoCities vibe. I wonder if that sort of retro energy is what also makes it work so well.
rugged, homemade GeoCities vibe. I wonder if that sort of retro energy is what also makes it work so well.
Zero.
Zero.
Well, it says on the landing page that it's a simple, free, fully responsive one-page site.
Well, it says on the landing page that it's a simple, free, fully responsive one-page site.
That's pretty, very affordable.
That's pretty, very affordable.
It's less than $2 a month. $19, that's like one coffee, you know?
It's less than $2 a month. $19, that's like one coffee, you know?
$19, that's like an espresso, you know?
$19, that's like an espresso, you know?
That's like a water, isn't it?
That's like a water, isn't it?
But $19 is like the price. It's only the price of like a small glass of water.
But $19 is like the price. It's only the price of like a small glass of water.
Yeah. You know, I think what we should do, you know, people don't watch every podcast. I think what we should cultivate on this podcast is a sense of being really out of touch with the rest of society. And when we see something like, oh, the Apple Vision Pro is only $3,800, like price of a coffee. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, I think what we should do, you know, people don't watch every podcast. I think what we should cultivate on this podcast is a sense of being really out of touch with the rest of society. And when we see something like, oh, the Apple Vision Pro is only $3,800, like price of a coffee. Yeah.
Yeah. Dude, it's like coffee. What does it cost approximately? I mean, I'm sure it's within the ballpark of $3,800, right? Right.
Yeah. Dude, it's like coffee. What does it cost approximately? I mean, I'm sure it's within the ballpark of $3,800, right? Right.
Just lovers. Yeah. It could just be just lovers, you know? That's it. We just keep it like that.
Just lovers. Yeah. It could just be just lovers, you know? That's it. We just keep it like that.
It is your audience. Does your audience think we're both fully wearing a tuxedo or do you want... Where do they think it ends?
It is your audience. Does your audience think we're both fully wearing a tuxedo or do you want... Where do they think it ends?
I don't know. We just have to think about it. You're going to have to guess in the comments. You have to guess in the comments.
I don't know. We just have to think about it. You're going to have to guess in the comments. You have to guess in the comments.
Yeah. Can you see this ghostly shit happening behind me?
Yeah. Can you see this ghostly shit happening behind me?
I hope your editor does one of those crash zooms whenever that happens. Stuff's just moving around in the background. Wow. That's scary. Okay. You just give your tiny business award.
I hope your editor does one of those crash zooms whenever that happens. Stuff's just moving around in the background. Wow. That's scary. Okay. You just give your tiny business award.
To card.
To card.
I love that. I have another one. All right, we'll go, we'll do another one. I'll do one last one, okay? I'll do one last one. So I think there's an area we haven't gone into yet and it's Patreon businesses, like really small Patreon businesses. And I want to give an award to... A Patreon business.
I love that. I have another one. All right, we'll go, we'll do another one. I'll do one last one, okay? I'll do one last one. So I think there's an area we haven't gone into yet and it's Patreon businesses, like really small Patreon businesses. And I want to give an award to... A Patreon business.
And again, like maybe this person wouldn't like it to be called a Patreon business because it's he's a really amazing artist. But I want to give an award to Bobby Fingers. If you go to YouTube and search Bobby Fingers, my favorite video, the best video I've ever seen on the internet is called Jeff Bezos Rowing Boat.
And again, like maybe this person wouldn't like it to be called a Patreon business because it's he's a really amazing artist. But I want to give an award to Bobby Fingers. If you go to YouTube and search Bobby Fingers, my favorite video, the best video I've ever seen on the internet is called Jeff Bezos Rowing Boat.
All right. So... The first Tiny Team Award for the Startup Ideas Podcast 2024 goes to King Flipchart.
All right. So... The first Tiny Team Award for the Startup Ideas Podcast 2024 goes to King Flipchart.
If you watch this whole thing and don't think it's the best YouTube video you've ever seen, something's horribly wrong with you and you're a bad person. So Bobby Fingers has a Patreon account. And what I love about his Patreon and what he does in particular is that he's not like a person who's constantly putting out different... He's not constantly pumping out content.
If you watch this whole thing and don't think it's the best YouTube video you've ever seen, something's horribly wrong with you and you're a bad person. So Bobby Fingers has a Patreon account. And what I love about his Patreon and what he does in particular is that he's not like a person who's constantly putting out different... He's not constantly pumping out content.
He puts out like one video every couple of months. You have no indication of when it's about to come out. And then this video... is literally him making a diorama. Do you know what a diorama is?
He puts out like one video every couple of months. You have no indication of when it's about to come out. And then this video... is literally him making a diorama. Do you know what a diorama is?
So it's, it's kind of hard. It's like a, it's like something happens in real life. So for example, um, uh, what's the guy's name in his most recent one, Fabio. So there's this, I think singer called Fabio and he was on a
So it's, it's kind of hard. It's like a, it's like something happens in real life. So for example, um, uh, what's the guy's name in his most recent one, Fabio. So there's this, I think singer called Fabio and he was on a
or got hit in the face by a bird whichever way you say that around and there's like footage of that there's footage of him coming down from the roller coaster with a bloody nose and he's really pissed off and this guy Bobby Fingers he makes like a little model of that moment like a moment in time but like a physical model like a sculpture of the moment and
or got hit in the face by a bird whichever way you say that around and there's like footage of that there's footage of him coming down from the roller coaster with a bloody nose and he's really pissed off and this guy Bobby Fingers he makes like a little model of that moment like a moment in time but like a physical model like a sculpture of the moment and
And his videos are like the making of these little sculptures, or in the case of the Jeff Bezos thing, he makes a boat, which is Jeff Bezos's face, but a massive working boat. And literally the strangest, most kind of confusing videos I've seen on the internet, the most like painstaking work, like we're looking, you're talking about a 30 minute video of
And his videos are like the making of these little sculptures, or in the case of the Jeff Bezos thing, he makes a boat, which is Jeff Bezos's face, but a massive working boat. And literally the strangest, most kind of confusing videos I've seen on the internet, the most like painstaking work, like we're looking, you're talking about a 30 minute video of
of the making of this goose, this diorama of a goose hitting this guy in the face. And just like the journeys he goes on while he's making this diorama and the weird things that he's saying while he's creating it. And... This is like, for me, a business that could have never existed outside of Patreon existing.
of the making of this goose, this diorama of a goose hitting this guy in the face. And just like the journeys he goes on while he's making this diorama and the weird things that he's saying while he's creating it. And... This is like, for me, a business that could have never existed outside of Patreon existing.
And I think Patreon really allows for single person teams or one or two person teams to monetize just their weirdness. And I love that. And I think it's super cool. I don't know how big... Bobby Fingers team is. I cannot imagine it's more than 10 people, but he gets another tiny team award from me in the content category. Let's add in categories now. Wow. You went there.
And I think Patreon really allows for single person teams or one or two person teams to monetize just their weirdness. And I love that. And I think it's super cool. I don't know how big... Bobby Fingers team is. I cannot imagine it's more than 10 people, but he gets another tiny team award from me in the content category. Let's add in categories now. Wow. You went there.
i can't believe you went there yeah content art category wow yeah yeah exactly yeah very very niche so bobby fingers honestly guys if you only get one thing from this uh from from this episode please and also something weird is happening i know this is not really interesting for the episode but i pay for his um patreon but like i can't use it. I don't know what's happening here.
i can't believe you went there yeah content art category wow yeah yeah exactly yeah very very niche so bobby fingers honestly guys if you only get one thing from this uh from from this episode please and also something weird is happening i know this is not really interesting for the episode but i pay for his um patreon but like i can't use it. I don't know what's happening here.
So something's... Patreon, if you're listening to this, tell me what's up with that issue there. By the way, another example who I'm not going to give the tiny team award for, but one of the runners up. Have you seen Van Neistat's channel?
So something's... Patreon, if you're listening to this, tell me what's up with that issue there. By the way, another example who I'm not going to give the tiny team award for, but one of the runners up. Have you seen Van Neistat's channel?
Good, good, good, good. Okay, so King flip chart. If you go to any Alex Hermosi video, if you've ever seen videos of Tony Robbins on stage, if you've ever seen basically any public speaker using a flip chart on a stage, This flip chart, if you look closer, has a little stamp on the bottom right-hand side, and it says King.
Good, good, good, good. Okay, so King flip chart. If you go to any Alex Hermosi video, if you've ever seen videos of Tony Robbins on stage, if you've ever seen basically any public speaker using a flip chart on a stage, This flip chart, if you look closer, has a little stamp on the bottom right-hand side, and it says King.
I love that. I love it.
I love that. I love it.
I love that people now can take their weird little hobbies and if they're just consistent enough and just focused enough and willing to sort of push through this initial phase where just no one knows you, you can literally replace your job by showing a 30-minute video of you making a boat that's in the shape of Jeff Bezos' face and you never have to work for someone else again. So good.
I love that people now can take their weird little hobbies and if they're just consistent enough and just focused enough and willing to sort of push through this initial phase where just no one knows you, you can literally replace your job by showing a 30-minute video of you making a boat that's in the shape of Jeff Bezos' face and you never have to work for someone else again. So good.
How cool is that?
How cool is that?
What'd you say?
What'd you say?
Yeah, you could quit whatever. I mean, you don't really have a job. You're kind of like creating your own jobs. But like if we just did this award ceremony every week and it's like $10 a week to listen to. I'm just kidding. That wouldn't be good.
Yeah, you could quit whatever. I mean, you don't really have a job. You're kind of like creating your own jobs. But like if we just did this award ceremony every week and it's like $10 a week to listen to. I'm just kidding. That wouldn't be good.
Yes, yes. Imagine how little money we would make and how annoyed we would be.
Yes, yes. Imagine how little money we would make and how annoyed we would be.
that posted you know that we just you know even so here it is here you go yeah i think it would be uh if if you guys do this um please let me know if you get responses i think this could make some people's day or maybe they don't give a shit maybe they're like who are you losers how are you how dare you call
that posted you know that we just you know even so here it is here you go yeah i think it would be uh if if you guys do this um please let me know if you get responses i think this could make some people's day or maybe they don't give a shit maybe they're like who are you losers how are you how dare you call
And there's no air conditioning in Germany. Like in most German, I'm in a new building, like a new apartment. And there's still no air conditioning being built into apartments. And like, I'm just sludge.
And there's no air conditioning in Germany. Like in most German, I'm in a new building, like a new apartment. And there's still no air conditioning being built into apartments. And like, I'm just sludge.
Greg, we need to do an episode. This is a preview for what I think we should do as an episode in the future. Europe versus the US when it comes to entrepreneurship.
Greg, we need to do an episode. This is a preview for what I think we should do as an episode in the future. Europe versus the US when it comes to entrepreneurship.
Biggest episode ever.
Biggest episode ever.
Yes. I have a lot to say about that topic. And have you had Peter Levels on this podcast yet?
Yes. I have a lot to say about that topic. And have you had Peter Levels on this podcast yet?
We got to get him. We got it. OK, we're going to do here. Here's live canvas strategy. You and me are going to do an episode on Europe versus the US entrepreneurship. We're going to talk about Peter Levels, European accelerationism, which is one of his his new kind of movement and his merch. And Peter will just have to He'll just have to come on, you know?
We got to get him. We got it. OK, we're going to do here. Here's live canvas strategy. You and me are going to do an episode on Europe versus the US entrepreneurship. We're going to talk about Peter Levels, European accelerationism, which is one of his his new kind of movement and his merch. And Peter will just have to He'll just have to come on, you know?
Come on, Peter. Yeah.
Come on, Peter. Yeah.
Bye. Bye.
Bye. Bye.
And this is because they are using a company called King Flipchart, which literally is two people doing one thing, and that is they make the world's biggest flip chart.
And this is because they are using a company called King Flipchart, which literally is two people doing one thing, and that is they make the world's biggest flip chart.
It's literally like a stand with really big pieces of paper on it that you can write on and then just turn them over to the next piece of paper. A flip chart.
It's literally like a stand with really big pieces of paper on it that you can write on and then just turn them over to the next piece of paper. A flip chart.
Honestly, I don't know. And I've reached out to them to see if there's any way I can like, get that answer. I don't know the answer to that question. But the flip charts are very expensive. And literally every single person in the personal development space is using them.
Honestly, I don't know. And I've reached out to them to see if there's any way I can like, get that answer. I don't know the answer to that question. But the flip charts are very expensive. And literally every single person in the personal development space is using them.
Look at any Alex Hermosi video where he's like every second Alex Hermosi video, he's standing in front of two of these flip charts. And the paper refills, which are specific to these flip charts, cost $100 for one paper refill. And we're a tiny company, like my company is very small, and we're using like four to five of these paper refills per month.
Look at any Alex Hermosi video where he's like every second Alex Hermosi video, he's standing in front of two of these flip charts. And the paper refills, which are specific to these flip charts, cost $100 for one paper refill. And we're a tiny company, like my company is very small, and we're using like four to five of these paper refills per month.
So anybody who buys one of these flip charts is using that paper and essentially paying a monthly subscription to keep doing their events and using these flip charts. And they do pens.
So anybody who buys one of these flip charts is using that paper and essentially paying a monthly subscription to keep doing their events and using these flip charts. And they do pens.
Yeah, it's expensive because it's like completely custom made. And the weird thing about it is, so I started seeing this flip chart on stage and the exact same thing happened to me. I was like, oh man, I need a flip chart that size. And so I started looking for a large flip chart. And eventually I was looking at all these different flip chart companies.
Yeah, it's expensive because it's like completely custom made. And the weird thing about it is, so I started seeing this flip chart on stage and the exact same thing happened to me. I was like, oh man, I need a flip chart that size. And so I started looking for a large flip chart. And eventually I was looking at all these different flip chart companies.
And most companies are not standalone flip chart companies. They do all sorts of other things. And eventually I went back to the video that I was watching. And again, I think it was Alex Hermosi or Russell Brunson or someone like that. And I zoomed in and I was like, King, what is King? And I figured out it's a two person company.
And most companies are not standalone flip chart companies. They do all sorts of other things. And eventually I went back to the video that I was watching. And again, I think it was Alex Hermosi or Russell Brunson or someone like that. And I zoomed in and I was like, King, what is King? And I figured out it's a two person company.
working out of italy and it's a sales and marketing expert uh and a like a furniture designer i think uh working together they're i believe a couple and they are the people who personally respond to you when you message them on the website so we had like an emergency two weeks ago because we were running an event at our office and we ran out of the flip chart paper And they're like, no problem.
working out of italy and it's a sales and marketing expert uh and a like a furniture designer i think uh working together they're i believe a couple and they are the people who personally respond to you when you message them on the website so we had like an emergency two weeks ago because we were running an event at our office and we ran out of the flip chart paper And they're like, no problem.
We like expedite it to you. And it's just so nice to have this as like the most personalized experience ever. And I just love, I love the simplicity of it. It's like we make a flip chart. What else do you do? Nothing.
We like expedite it to you. And it's just so nice to have this as like the most personalized experience ever. And I just love, I love the simplicity of it. It's like we make a flip chart. What else do you do? Nothing.
Absolutely. And that's exactly what I do as well. Like for me, once you buy one King flip chart, first of all, you're locked into the ecosystem, right? You can't find, you'd have to custom design or have a company custom design that paper size for you because it's humongous. But the other thing is I just want to keep supporting them. They're so nice.
Absolutely. And that's exactly what I do as well. Like for me, once you buy one King flip chart, first of all, you're locked into the ecosystem, right? You can't find, you'd have to custom design or have a company custom design that paper size for you because it's humongous. But the other thing is I just want to keep supporting them. They're so nice.
It's just such a humble... Tiziana is the person who we talk to when we need new stuff. And honestly, one of my biggest challenges right now coming up in the summer is when I'm traveling around... And I don't have my king because I don't want to bring it onto the plane. What I'm going to have to do is literally buy a new one and have it shipped to the location that I go to.
It's just such a humble... Tiziana is the person who we talk to when we need new stuff. And honestly, one of my biggest challenges right now coming up in the summer is when I'm traveling around... And I don't have my king because I don't want to bring it onto the plane. What I'm going to have to do is literally buy a new one and have it shipped to the location that I go to.
And so I'm like super locked into the king universe. And they're just such a tiny company. I just love it. They deserve this tiny team award, which we need to make a little logo for so they can put it on their site.
And so I'm like super locked into the king universe. And they're just such a tiny company. I just love it. They deserve this tiny team award, which we need to make a little logo for so they can put it on their site.
And we're wearing tuxedos here.
And we're wearing tuxedos here.
Greg, we are wearing suits today because we are introducing a new award for the industry. The entrepreneurial small business, business bootstrap industry.
Greg, we are wearing suits today because we are introducing a new award for the industry. The entrepreneurial small business, business bootstrap industry.
King flip chart. So it's just what I love about it is they've so you can buy flip charts from anywhere, right? You can go just Google flip charts, and I'm sure there's a million of them on Amazon. But they've locked themselves into this world of like direct response marketing and personal development.
King flip chart. So it's just what I love about it is they've so you can buy flip charts from anywhere, right? You can go just Google flip charts, and I'm sure there's a million of them on Amazon. But they've locked themselves into this world of like direct response marketing and personal development.
where they basically now, and all of the testimonials on their website, and I'm sure way more people have thing flip charts, but they are focusing on the people in the personal development space. And it just keeps, it keep, yeah, it's like a niche within a niche because it's not just that it's, we're just doing flip charts.
where they basically now, and all of the testimonials on their website, and I'm sure way more people have thing flip charts, but they are focusing on the people in the personal development space. And it just keeps, it keep, yeah, it's like a niche within a niche because it's not just that it's, we're just doing flip charts.
It's we're just doing flip charts for the personal development on stage space, right? which is just so cool. It's a flip chart that's big enough to be on stage. That's what I think is so unbelievably specific and niche about it. And it does make me think like, what are like the normal stationary style things where you think that 3M has already cornered the market?
It's we're just doing flip charts for the personal development on stage space, right? which is just so cool. It's a flip chart that's big enough to be on stage. That's what I think is so unbelievably specific and niche about it. And it does make me think like, what are like the normal stationary style things where you think that 3M has already cornered the market?
So 3M is the company that makes Post-it and all of these other things. And I actually have one of the 3M flip charts here. It's hidden in the background here. But this thing is like pretty expensive as well. But King flip chart came along and was like, what if it's the biggest though? You know?
So 3M is the company that makes Post-it and all of these other things. And I actually have one of the 3M flip charts here. It's hidden in the background here. But this thing is like pretty expensive as well. But King flip chart came along and was like, what if it's the biggest though? You know?
All right. I'll lift it up again.
All right. I'll lift it up again.
That award is... The Tiny Team Award.
That award is... The Tiny Team Award.
I know about the story of Stardew Valley and I have it on here and have way too many hours on it.
I know about the story of Stardew Valley and I have it on here and have way too many hours on it.
It's the flip chart family again. It's the son of the flip chart.
It's the flip chart family again. It's the son of the flip chart.
Yes.
Yes.
It's an award we're going to give out maybe once per month, maybe once per quarter. Who knows?
It's an award we're going to give out maybe once per month, maybe once per quarter. Who knows?
Maybe once per lifetime. So like zero consistency at all. Listen, audience, don't expect any consistency here. It's an award we're going to give out to a company that has a team of less than 10 people, but that is very special.
Maybe once per lifetime. So like zero consistency at all. Listen, audience, don't expect any consistency here. It's an award we're going to give out to a company that has a team of less than 10 people, but that is very special.
Very, very good one. Very, very good one. Okay. So, you know, before the episode, we didn't discuss how many awards we're giving out, uh, So I'm going to give out another award right now. Another Tiny Team Award. Staying in the video game space, I don't know if you've heard of the magazine called A Profound Waste of Time. Have you heard of it?
Very, very good one. Very, very good one. Okay. So, you know, before the episode, we didn't discuss how many awards we're giving out, uh, So I'm going to give out another award right now. Another Tiny Team Award. Staying in the video game space, I don't know if you've heard of the magazine called A Profound Waste of Time. Have you heard of it?
Ah, ah, I'm very happy to hear that. So in the video game space, there is a magazine called A Profound Waste of Time. The guy who does it is a guy called Caspian Whistler. And Caspian Whistler is the person who not only is like putting together this entire magazine and finding all the artists and figuring out how to get all the interviews in there.
Ah, ah, I'm very happy to hear that. So in the video game space, there is a magazine called A Profound Waste of Time. The guy who does it is a guy called Caspian Whistler. And Caspian Whistler is the person who not only is like putting together this entire magazine and finding all the artists and figuring out how to get all the interviews in there.
He's also the person who personally is messaging you when your magazine is stuck in delivery and was personally messaging my girlfriend back and forth over Christmas when she was trying to get me the three issues of the magazine. Super high quality, really amazing interviews from really crazy video game developers in there. Really like high-end video game developers.
He's also the person who personally is messaging you when your magazine is stuck in delivery and was personally messaging my girlfriend back and forth over Christmas when she was trying to get me the three issues of the magazine. Super high quality, really amazing interviews from really crazy video game developers in there. Really like high-end video game developers.
Like, for example, the developers who created Ico and Shadow of the Colossus. Really... I don't know if you can see, if you go to the website, apwot.com. Like, it's just... ludicrously high quality for one person to go in and actually take on a project of this size. It's ridiculously ambitious as well, similar to Stardew Valley, the amount of effort that goes into a project like this.
Like, for example, the developers who created Ico and Shadow of the Colossus. Really... I don't know if you can see, if you go to the website, apwot.com. Like, it's just... ludicrously high quality for one person to go in and actually take on a project of this size. It's ridiculously ambitious as well, similar to Stardew Valley, the amount of effort that goes into a project like this.
Well, you Americans, right? And I was really thinking about that this week. You Americans are all like, you've got this zin stuff. I actually don't know if it's a patch or if it's a chewing gum.
Well, you Americans, right? And I was really thinking about that this week. You Americans are all like, you've got this zin stuff. I actually don't know if it's a patch or if it's a chewing gum.
I mean, you could even simplify it down to whatever jobs require you to decide at the age of 18 that you're going to do that job, the chances of you actually liking it by the time you're 36 is very low. Like a lot of the people in my town in Ireland, anyone who is smart and good at math was basically told to do civil engineering. I don't think I know anyone who actually does that job now.
I mean, you could even simplify it down to whatever jobs require you to decide at the age of 18 that you're going to do that job, the chances of you actually liking it by the time you're 36 is very low. Like a lot of the people in my town in Ireland, anyone who is smart and good at math was basically told to do civil engineering. I don't think I know anyone who actually does that job now.
it's like engineering the engineering kind of mathematics behind like stressors on buildings and stuff like I know so it's like if you you study civil engineering you're you become an engineer right a civil engineer so what does that even mean I don't fucking know. But one of my friends is a video game designer right now. I was just going to say the name of the company, but I won't.
it's like engineering the engineering kind of mathematics behind like stressors on buildings and stuff like I know so it's like if you you study civil engineering you're you become an engineer right a civil engineer so what does that even mean I don't fucking know. But one of my friends is a video game designer right now. I was just going to say the name of the company, but I won't.
And he, yeah, like that's an example of a transition path that not a lot of people who went into civil engineering might know about. I mean, in the end, sometimes it's just about seeing what other people do, right? Sometimes how you calibrate what you want to do with your life is just by looking at someone else and being like, oh yeah, like I could do that with my life.
And he, yeah, like that's an example of a transition path that not a lot of people who went into civil engineering might know about. I mean, in the end, sometimes it's just about seeing what other people do, right? Sometimes how you calibrate what you want to do with your life is just by looking at someone else and being like, oh yeah, like I could do that with my life.
I can't even say that. I'm not even going to try to say it.
I can't even say that. I'm not even going to try to say it.
I 100% believe that. Um, that's why I also like, so we talked about this before I live in Europe. Europe is very laid back. Um, you can see it from the economy, but it's like, it's super laid back. I even live in the country with like one of the best economies in Europe. I live in Germany. It's so, so laid back compared to the U S uh, from a career point of view. And I
I 100% believe that. Um, that's why I also like, so we talked about this before I live in Europe. Europe is very laid back. Um, you can see it from the economy, but it's like, it's super laid back. I even live in the country with like one of the best economies in Europe. I live in Germany. It's so, so laid back compared to the U S uh, from a career point of view. And I
I do have to sometimes just get on a flight like I am in a couple of weeks and go to California just to like, you know, be in San Francisco, be in LA, hang around with other founders who are just a lot more focused and successful and like driven than me. They're just on a lot more zin than you are. I didn't know that dude. Now I know. No. Okay.
I do have to sometimes just get on a flight like I am in a couple of weeks and go to California just to like, you know, be in San Francisco, be in LA, hang around with other founders who are just a lot more focused and successful and like driven than me. They're just on a lot more zin than you are. I didn't know that dude. Now I know. No. Okay.
So not everyone is, but I definitely learned, uh, I learned a lot about Zen in the last few months. Um, yeah, Americans definitely, uh, have a very unfair advantage of having like a lot of chemical compounds going at the same time to keep them very awake. Uh, I don't know whether I think that's a good thing or a bad thing. I just am now aware of this.
So not everyone is, but I definitely learned, uh, I learned a lot about Zen in the last few months. Um, yeah, Americans definitely, uh, have a very unfair advantage of having like a lot of chemical compounds going at the same time to keep them very awake. Uh, I don't know whether I think that's a good thing or a bad thing. I just am now aware of this.
But yeah, there's also just this energy in the US, this energy in places like San Francisco, which I then, if I'm there a few weeks, I do start to mimic it, right? I do start to, there's this like Tony Robbins says, proximity is power. I think nothing beats it, right? If I spent more time with you in person, I'd become more like you. If you spent more time like me in person, you become way cooler.
But yeah, there's also just this energy in the US, this energy in places like San Francisco, which I then, if I'm there a few weeks, I do start to mimic it, right? I do start to, there's this like Tony Robbins says, proximity is power. I think nothing beats it, right? If I spent more time with you in person, I'd become more like you. If you spent more time like me in person, you become way cooler.
But really, it just is that, right? It's really hard to get away from this proximity thing. Totally separate topic, but it's also why... I speak to a lot of entrepreneurs. I'm in a lot of entrepreneur groups. And one common problem people have is like, things aren't working out for me. And I often ask, where do you live? Like, as in, do you live like near where stuff is happening?
But really, it just is that, right? It's really hard to get away from this proximity thing. Totally separate topic, but it's also why... I speak to a lot of entrepreneurs. I'm in a lot of entrepreneur groups. And one common problem people have is like, things aren't working out for me. And I often ask, where do you live? Like, as in, do you live like near where stuff is happening?
Oh, no, like during COVID, I moved out into the middle of nowhere. And like, I've got this amazing house, but it's like three hours from anywhere. And I'm like, it's really hard to simulate the proximity thing. Like you do need to be near stuff physically, the energy, like I live in Berlin and I live in an area that's super busy and there's a lot going on and it feels, it just, there's a momentum.
Oh, no, like during COVID, I moved out into the middle of nowhere. And like, I've got this amazing house, but it's like three hours from anywhere. And I'm like, it's really hard to simulate the proximity thing. Like you do need to be near stuff physically, the energy, like I live in Berlin and I live in an area that's super busy and there's a lot going on and it feels, it just, there's a momentum.
It's a little bag that you put up here. Yeah. Oh, okay. A lot of people in the Nordic countries use that too, but not for productivity because, hey, guess what? Nobody from Nordic countries is going to be watching this show for productivity ain't the thing.
It's a little bag that you put up here. Yeah. Oh, okay. A lot of people in the Nordic countries use that too, but not for productivity because, hey, guess what? Nobody from Nordic countries is going to be watching this show for productivity ain't the thing.
There's something about, not to say that being in a nice, peaceful, still place isn't a beautiful thing to have. It's just, if that's your day to day, you will also become more chill. You, you, you start to mimic that environment as well. I mean, where you look like you're in a pretty chill place right now, but you you're often in Miami, right?
There's something about, not to say that being in a nice, peaceful, still place isn't a beautiful thing to have. It's just, if that's your day to day, you will also become more chill. You, you, you start to mimic that environment as well. I mean, where you look like you're in a pretty chill place right now, but you you're often in Miami, right?
Yes.
Yes.
I was going to I was going to push you on that one because I am really trying to build a community in my in my physical neighborhood here in Berlin. Like two nights ago, I was hanging out at my neighbor's house just downstairs. We're in a like a high rise building, I guess. playing the new Elden Ring DLC. I'm cooking dinner for neighbors. I know the people working in the different shops here.
I was going to I was going to push you on that one because I am really trying to build a community in my in my physical neighborhood here in Berlin. Like two nights ago, I was hanging out at my neighbor's house just downstairs. We're in a like a high rise building, I guess. playing the new Elden Ring DLC. I'm cooking dinner for neighbors. I know the people working in the different shops here.
But yeah, I was thinking, I was literally like, maybe I need to start taking some of these powerful concoctions of stuff that Americans take to get work done. Um, but yeah, in the end I just ended up waiting until I didn't have COVID anymore, but I do have some fun topic. I do have one main topic for you today. I think it's like.
But yeah, I was thinking, I was literally like, maybe I need to start taking some of these powerful concoctions of stuff that Americans take to get work done. Um, but yeah, in the end I just ended up waiting until I didn't have COVID anymore, but I do have some fun topic. I do have one main topic for you today. I think it's like.
So I do love to be integrated into my community. Yeah, this is interesting, right? A city is a utility. And this is actually, this is a totally different topic. I guess we're just on topic two.
So I do love to be integrated into my community. Yeah, this is interesting, right? A city is a utility. And this is actually, this is a totally different topic. I guess we're just on topic two.
There's a lot of, I never, I don't post about remote work versus in-person work and cities versus urban environments anymore because people go, people who are like, who've made the decision to like no cities forever get so angry about it. Like if you now, for example, had moved to wherever you are right now and had decided I am now a monk living in the middle of nowhere.
There's a lot of, I never, I don't post about remote work versus in-person work and cities versus urban environments anymore because people go, people who are like, who've made the decision to like no cities forever get so angry about it. Like if you now, for example, had moved to wherever you are right now and had decided I am now a monk living in the middle of nowhere.
And I was like, cities are a great place to get like this proximity. And you'd be like, oh, no, you can't say that for everyone. But because you're flexible and you can move between these two worlds, it doesn't bother you. And I think the objective truth about this is.
And I was like, cities are a great place to get like this proximity. And you'd be like, oh, no, you can't say that for everyone. But because you're flexible and you can move between these two worlds, it doesn't bother you. And I think the objective truth about this is.
First of all, if you're already balling out of control, unbelievably rich, and your momentum is crazy and your network is insane, sure, sell everything, leave the city, live in the middle of nowhere. You don't need any more money and you don't need any more connections. And let's say your purpose is gardening, then you do not need to think about this ever again.
First of all, if you're already balling out of control, unbelievably rich, and your momentum is crazy and your network is insane, sure, sell everything, leave the city, live in the middle of nowhere. You don't need any more money and you don't need any more connections. And let's say your purpose is gardening, then you do not need to think about this ever again.
But if you're still on your journey, I do think cities are, they're not just a place to go have fun. They are a utility that you pay for. Like, there's a reason also people are like, oh, if you live in Berlin, you pay this much for an apartment. But if you just move two hours outside, you can get a house for that price. And I'm like, yes, I'm not just paying for physical space.
But if you're still on your journey, I do think cities are, they're not just a place to go have fun. They are a utility that you pay for. Like, there's a reason also people are like, oh, if you live in Berlin, you pay this much for an apartment. But if you just move two hours outside, you can get a house for that price. And I'm like, yes, I'm not just paying for physical space.
I'm paying to be close to people who are doing things that I want to do. I'm paying for this energy. It is actually a service to live in the city. I actually heard like someone was commenting, someone was posting recently, oh, Munich is getting so expensive. It's ridiculous, whatever. And this other German guy underneath wrote and everyone was agreeing. Right. And I was also like, yeah, sure.
I'm paying to be close to people who are doing things that I want to do. I'm paying for this energy. It is actually a service to live in the city. I actually heard like someone was commenting, someone was posting recently, oh, Munich is getting so expensive. It's ridiculous, whatever. And this other German guy underneath wrote and everyone was agreeing. Right. And I was also like, yeah, sure.
Like Germany is getting expensive. Everywhere is getting expensive. And
Like Germany is getting expensive. Everywhere is getting expensive. And
was kind of in agreement i was like okay yeah everything's expensive this and then somebody wrote underneath it's not your human right to live in the center of a city like it's not a human right to live in the center of an expensive city obviously different story if you live there now you're getting kicked out because of gentrification but you as a you know me as an irish guy who went to college
was kind of in agreement i was like okay yeah everything's expensive this and then somebody wrote underneath it's not your human right to live in the center of a city like it's not a human right to live in the center of an expensive city obviously different story if you live there now you're getting kicked out because of gentrification but you as a you know me as an irish guy who went to college
I have absolutely no right to live in the center of Berlin. I don't, by the way, it's actually insanely expensive, but I have no right to do that. So it is a utility, it's a service, and you're paying a premium because of the services and the amenities provided. That's a whole separate thing.
I have absolutely no right to live in the center of Berlin. I don't, by the way, it's actually insanely expensive, but I have no right to do that. So it is a utility, it's a service, and you're paying a premium because of the services and the amenities provided. That's a whole separate thing.
But like, for example, I know if I wanted to live in San Francisco where the center of this AI explosion is right now, if I was in AI and I wanted to like basically increase my chances of a successful outcome, I'd have to pay the price and live in a place like San Francisco.
But like, for example, I know if I wanted to live in San Francisco where the center of this AI explosion is right now, if I was in AI and I wanted to like basically increase my chances of a successful outcome, I'd have to pay the price and live in a place like San Francisco.
I, when I saw this and I've been looking into it for a couple of weeks, I was thinking, okay, your audience, a couple of people in your audience are going to be smart enough and hustling enough to take this and actually turn this into a business.
I, when I saw this and I've been looking into it for a couple of weeks, I was thinking, okay, your audience, a couple of people in your audience are going to be smart enough and hustling enough to take this and actually turn this into a business.
I'm not looking for that, but that is really the price of getting the rewards of living in a physical space that brings you closer to all the things you want. And I think a lot of people need to change their mindset about that when they're saying I can get a seven story house out in the middle of nowhere. It's like, yeah, you can. And you just need to understand the trade off. You can do that.
I'm not looking for that, but that is really the price of getting the rewards of living in a physical space that brings you closer to all the things you want. And I think a lot of people need to change their mindset about that when they're saying I can get a seven story house out in the middle of nowhere. It's like, yeah, you can. And you just need to understand the trade off. You can do that.
And that's really cool. It's just about understanding these trade offs is important. Am I going down a bad rabbit hole?
And that's really cool. It's just about understanding these trade offs is important. Am I going down a bad rabbit hole?
It is absolutely that. A practical example of this is talking to someone today who is talking about digital marketing and how do I do this and how do I get calls and it's really difficult to get calls and da-da-da-da-da.
It is absolutely that. A practical example of this is talking to someone today who is talking about digital marketing and how do I do this and how do I get calls and it's really difficult to get calls and da-da-da-da-da.
And then I was like, I was trying to give advice, but then I was like, but the truth is how I started was I was in a coworking space in the center of Berlin, which was full of startups. And I physically talked to them and then I got work. Like I went drinking with them. That like, that's the truth. And now I could move out into the middle of nowhere and build a career. But it is...
And then I was like, I was trying to give advice, but then I was like, but the truth is how I started was I was in a coworking space in the center of Berlin, which was full of startups. And I physically talked to them and then I got work. Like I went drinking with them. That like, that's the truth. And now I could move out into the middle of nowhere and build a career. But it is...
Um, and it's based on, I was, so I'm in a couple of different entrepreneurial groups and one of the groups I was in, I was listening to the call last week. Again, I was like out of my head with COVID, just like slow, sweaty, whatever. Um, But I was listening to this woman and she was getting help with the marketing challenge.
Um, and it's based on, I was, so I'm in a couple of different entrepreneurial groups and one of the groups I was in, I was listening to the call last week. Again, I was like out of my head with COVID, just like slow, sweaty, whatever. Um, But I was listening to this woman and she was getting help with the marketing challenge.
of course possible to build a career remotely and not in a city. It's just the challenge. It is kind of like playing on hard mode versus easy mode. You get the, it's like in a video game, you're putting the attributes into comfort. You're putting all your points into comfort and convenience, but then the, you have like low ability to get leads and build a career remotely. And I agree.
of course possible to build a career remotely and not in a city. It's just the challenge. It is kind of like playing on hard mode versus easy mode. You get the, it's like in a video game, you're putting the attributes into comfort. You're putting all your points into comfort and convenience, but then the, you have like low ability to get leads and build a career remotely. And I agree.
I think all of these options are like people who want to live out in the middle of nowhere like you right now. I think that is absolutely amazing as long as you understand the trade off. And I think a lot of people are convinced by a lot of people who still haven't built their careers yet. are convinced by some sort of part of the media to move out to the suburbs before they get any momentum.
I think all of these options are like people who want to live out in the middle of nowhere like you right now. I think that is absolutely amazing as long as you understand the trade off. And I think a lot of people are convinced by a lot of people who still haven't built their careers yet. are convinced by some sort of part of the media to move out to the suburbs before they get any momentum.
And then there's sometimes a little bit of resentment later in life, like, oh, I could have done this, I could have done that. And it's like, yeah, you would have had to pay The city tax to get that, to get those things. Or you have to become a fucking amazing content creator, which is hard to do. Or like a world-class marketer, which is also hard to do.
And then there's sometimes a little bit of resentment later in life, like, oh, I could have done this, I could have done that. And it's like, yeah, you would have had to pay The city tax to get that, to get those things. Or you have to become a fucking amazing content creator, which is hard to do. Or like a world-class marketer, which is also hard to do.
Totally. I want that insurance too.
Totally. I want that insurance too.
I think it's, but it's, yeah, we've, we've gone deeply into another topic, but I, I would love if some of my friends and entrepreneur friends had, uh, not jumped so aggressively on the COVID, everything is going to be remote now train. And now are like, oh, it's really weirdly hard to get work. Like, yeah, it is.
I think it's, but it's, yeah, we've, we've gone deeply into another topic, but I, I would love if some of my friends and entrepreneur friends had, uh, not jumped so aggressively on the COVID, everything is going to be remote now train. And now are like, oh, it's really weirdly hard to get work. Like, yeah, it is.
It is difficult when you didn't get that momentum, career momentum before you went away. I think that's the challenge. I think there has been this like, It's back to your mimetic, the wanting book. I got to read this. I think the mimetic desire thing works more powerfully in person. It just has more of a powerful draw in person, but also, God damn it, in-person stuff's just easier.
It is difficult when you didn't get that momentum, career momentum before you went away. I think that's the challenge. I think there has been this like, It's back to your mimetic, the wanting book. I got to read this. I think the mimetic desire thing works more powerfully in person. It just has more of a powerful draw in person, but also, God damn it, in-person stuff's just easier.
She was talking for a while and eventually I was just like, I'm really sorry, do you mind if I ask you how much your coaching program costs? And she said, oh yeah, yeah, it's $38,000 per year. And I was like... What the fuck? What are you? How? And the reason I was so shocked is because what she's selling is she's selling a program. It's not an online course.
She was talking for a while and eventually I was just like, I'm really sorry, do you mind if I ask you how much your coaching program costs? And she said, oh yeah, yeah, it's $38,000 per year. And I was like... What the fuck? What are you? How? And the reason I was so shocked is because what she's selling is she's selling a program. It's not an online course.
It feels like it's easier to start a career when you're in an environment where just other people are doing that too. For example, when I moved to Berlin, I just copied one of my friend's careers. He was a UX designer. We both studied digital media production. And I was just like, you're doing what? And we would go out drinking and I would talk to him about it. And then he'd show me his portfolio.
It feels like it's easier to start a career when you're in an environment where just other people are doing that too. For example, when I moved to Berlin, I just copied one of my friend's careers. He was a UX designer. We both studied digital media production. And I was just like, you're doing what? And we would go out drinking and I would talk to him about it. And then he'd show me his portfolio.
He'd tell me how much he got paid. And I'm just like, I'm copying you, dude. Eric, thank you so much for letting me copy everything. You did. I appreciate it, dude. But yeah, that shit would be very challenging to do where I come from, which is a small town in Ireland, because I don't know if there's a UX designer there. You know what I mean? A UX designer. I don't know if there's one.
He'd tell me how much he got paid. And I'm just like, I'm copying you, dude. Eric, thank you so much for letting me copy everything. You did. I appreciate it, dude. But yeah, that shit would be very challenging to do where I come from, which is a small town in Ireland, because I don't know if there's a UX designer there. You know what I mean? A UX designer. I don't know if there's one.
I don't know if there was one back when I was starting. I went down there. We rabbited.
I don't know if there was one back when I was starting. I went down there. We rabbited.
How do you split your time between this place you are right now and Miami?
How do you split your time between this place you are right now and Miami?
10 blog posts i want to write just fly up here spend a week here and fly back that's so cool and and you know here's the thing audience if i would spend more time with greg then i would get more successful and be able to have two places where i live so i just need to spend more time in greg's proximity absorbing his energy and then just those dollars and Come flying in.
10 blog posts i want to write just fly up here spend a week here and fly back that's so cool and and you know here's the thing audience if i would spend more time with greg then i would get more successful and be able to have two places where i live so i just need to spend more time in greg's proximity absorbing his energy and then just those dollars and Come flying in.
That's how it's going to work.
That's how it's going to work.
Yeah, thank you so much, everybody. Appreciate your time.
Yeah, thank you so much, everybody. Appreciate your time.
Thanks everyone. Bye.
Thanks everyone. Bye.
It's like a kind of one year program of coaching to teachers who don't want to be teachers anymore and who want to transition out of that career into being something else. And then I was like, okay, wait a minute. There are a lot of different careers that people are in and they probably don't know that they can take their skills and turn them into something else and get a different job.
It's like a kind of one year program of coaching to teachers who don't want to be teachers anymore and who want to transition out of that career into being something else. And then I was like, okay, wait a minute. There are a lot of different careers that people are in and they probably don't know that they can take their skills and turn them into something else and get a different job.
A lot of people get burnt out from teaching. A lot of people realize like from their perspective when it's too late, that they actually don't like it. And it's a super, super popular thing for people if you look at it. So I started Googling it then. I looked at her website. Maybe I shouldn't. I don't know.
A lot of people get burnt out from teaching. A lot of people realize like from their perspective when it's too late, that they actually don't like it. And it's a super, super popular thing for people if you look at it. So I started Googling it then. I looked at her website. Maybe I shouldn't. I don't know.
Maybe I shouldn't tell people about her specific website on this thing because I'm sharing things from within my entrepreneur group that would maybe get me kicked out of that group. But there's a couple of companies that do something like this. For example, if you just start Googling teacher transition, new career. There's one called Teaching Transition Academy. There's things like that.
Maybe I shouldn't tell people about her specific website on this thing because I'm sharing things from within my entrepreneur group that would maybe get me kicked out of that group. But there's a couple of companies that do something like this. For example, if you just start Googling teacher transition, new career. There's one called Teaching Transition Academy. There's things like that.
And these are super high ticket programs where not all of them are high ticket. Some of them are lower ticket, but where essentially, you know, a team of people will help you figure out what you can do next. And what I love about it is that this is something that, so I run a company called ajandsmart.com
And these are super high ticket programs where not all of them are high ticket. Some of them are lower ticket, but where essentially, you know, a team of people will help you figure out what you can do next. And what I love about it is that this is something that, so I run a company called ajandsmart.com
We help people become facilitators and we realize one of the most powerful things that we do is we help people go from where they are, which is usually like product management, UX design, project management to something more like facilitation, which is what they specifically want to do.
We help people become facilitators and we realize one of the most powerful things that we do is we help people go from where they are, which is usually like product management, UX design, project management to something more like facilitation, which is what they specifically want to do.
But looking at this, I was like, you could literally take almost any job, like nursing, teaching, I still think is really underserved. I was looking at it. You could even look at consultants who go and work at McKinsey and then realize they don't like it.
But looking at this, I was like, you could literally take almost any job, like nursing, teaching, I still think is really underserved. I was looking at it. You could even look at consultants who go and work at McKinsey and then realize they don't like it.
You could also look at things that are getting like laid off, like product managers, really think about how could you actually help this person get in? And especially if they're later in life, maybe they don't, they already have a family, maybe they're already kind of locked down to where they live.
You could also look at things that are getting like laid off, like product managers, really think about how could you actually help this person get in? And especially if they're later in life, maybe they don't, they already have a family, maybe they're already kind of locked down to where they live.
How could you actually find something that could help these people, a program that could help these people? Or could you figure out an easy thing that they could retrain themselves on? And honestly, that can be a killer business. And I was just shocked. When I was talking to her and she was like $38,000, teachers pay $38,000, usually spread out over the 12 months.
How could you actually find something that could help these people, a program that could help these people? Or could you figure out an easy thing that they could retrain themselves on? And honestly, that can be a killer business. And I was just shocked. When I was talking to her and she was like $38,000, teachers pay $38,000, usually spread out over the 12 months.
But I was completely shocked that this was, I honestly expected her to say maximum $3,000, maximum.
But I was completely shocked that this was, I honestly expected her to say maximum $3,000, maximum.
There's a couple of nuances to it that I would focus on. If I was starting this business, I'd focus on people who are, who already have kids who are already settled down where they live. Maybe their kids are just like starting to move out. Maybe they're starting to realize maybe this career isn't for me. So I wouldn't be targeting anybody like,
There's a couple of nuances to it that I would focus on. If I was starting this business, I'd focus on people who are, who already have kids who are already settled down where they live. Maybe their kids are just like starting to move out. Maybe they're starting to realize maybe this career isn't for me. So I wouldn't be targeting anybody like,
Under 45 or maybe like it would be more like 40 and above. They'll also have more money to spend as well. So there'll be more. They'll have felt the pain also being in the industry that they don't like for a long period of time. And so I think that's why teaching. is such an amazing target. Like teachers often, I know a lot of teachers, they get to the certain point when they're like 35, 36, 37.
Under 45 or maybe like it would be more like 40 and above. They'll also have more money to spend as well. So there'll be more. They'll have felt the pain also being in the industry that they don't like for a long period of time. And so I think that's why teaching. is such an amazing target. Like teachers often, I know a lot of teachers, they get to the certain point when they're like 35, 36, 37.
My sister, for example, when she was 33, she transitioned into facilitation. I think it takes a while for them to realize, oh shit, like my salary is going to go up really slowly. I can already see, I already know what my salary is going to be when I'm retiring. And this is what it's going to be like forever. And I think there are a lot of different jobs like that.
My sister, for example, when she was 33, she transitioned into facilitation. I think it takes a while for them to realize, oh shit, like my salary is going to go up really slowly. I can already see, I already know what my salary is going to be when I'm retiring. And this is what it's going to be like forever. And I think there are a lot of different jobs like that.
Hey, time to sip.
Hey, time to sip.
Teaching is just one of the most obvious, but immediately for me, what I'm always thinking is what would I do if AJ and smart failed? And yeah, One of the most obvious things after hearing the price of her coaching program was, well, I'd probably look for jobs that people feel stuck in. I do feel like.
Teaching is just one of the most obvious, but immediately for me, what I'm always thinking is what would I do if AJ and smart failed? And yeah, One of the most obvious things after hearing the price of her coaching program was, well, I'd probably look for jobs that people feel stuck in. I do feel like.
It has to be the pain that they have to feel is that they're stuck and that their skills are not transferable, right? You don't want to be targeting people like you and me who are like full stack marketer entrepreneurs who can kind of do anything. You want to be targeting people who spent their entire year building towards one career and their entire life building towards one career.
It has to be the pain that they have to feel is that they're stuck and that their skills are not transferable, right? You don't want to be targeting people like you and me who are like full stack marketer entrepreneurs who can kind of do anything. You want to be targeting people who spent their entire year building towards one career and their entire life building towards one career.
And then you can actually help them gain the confidence to move back into the market into something different. So I think it's like a career coach on Zin, you know?
And then you can actually help them gain the confidence to move back into the market into something different. So I think it's like a career coach on Zin, you know?
Yeah. And like, okay, so how do you build this business? Literally, especially if you're not a teacher, if I was building this, Well, first of all, you would ideally find a teacher potentially as your co-founder, a teacher who's already transitioned out. Another thing is, so literally in one day, first I would Google the shit out of it. I would look at all the Quora posts.
Yeah. And like, okay, so how do you build this business? Literally, especially if you're not a teacher, if I was building this, Well, first of all, you would ideally find a teacher potentially as your co-founder, a teacher who's already transitioned out. Another thing is, so literally in one day, first I would Google the shit out of it. I would look at all the Quora posts.
I was already doing this today. Looking at all the Quora questions about how to transition out of teaching, looking at all the Reddit posts about how to transition out of teaching. looking at all the different things people are doing, then I'd reach out to a lot of the people who've been posting, ask to interview them, just gather all these ideas. Then of course, I'd look at the competitors.
I was already doing this today. Looking at all the Quora questions about how to transition out of teaching, looking at all the Reddit posts about how to transition out of teaching. looking at all the different things people are doing, then I'd reach out to a lot of the people who've been posting, ask to interview them, just gather all these ideas. Then of course, I'd look at the competitors.
I'd look at all the different websites, all the different things. If I'm looking at a lot of these, they're fairly low quality from a
I'd look at all the different websites, all the different things. If I'm looking at a lot of these, they're fairly low quality from a
trust perspective i would say they look very salesy and and like bad and so i try to i would just build a more trustworthy version of these things and go content first and who i would make the content with would be teachers who have transitioned out right i'd learn from the people who've transitioned out of being teachers and build like the best content hub and
trust perspective i would say they look very salesy and and like bad and so i try to i would just build a more trustworthy version of these things and go content first and who i would make the content with would be teachers who have transitioned out right i'd learn from the people who've transitioned out of being teachers and build like the best content hub and
But yeah, I mean, you would just then try to, I guess it would be some form of education business, coaching business. Even better if you find like the thing that they can transition into. But honestly, I think it would be a super, it would be a super powerful business to at least replace your normal day to day corporate salary with. And you would be helping people.
But yeah, I mean, you would just then try to, I guess it would be some form of education business, coaching business. Even better if you find like the thing that they can transition into. But honestly, I think it would be a super, it would be a super powerful business to at least replace your normal day to day corporate salary with. And you would be helping people.
I was so sick. I got COVID got that bat flu right in my brain. And it just, it really messed me up. It stopped me from being sharp. There's nothing more scary as an entrepreneur, especially if you're running your own businesses, then your brain moving slower than usual.
I was so sick. I got COVID got that bat flu right in my brain. And it just, it really messed me up. It stopped me from being sharp. There's nothing more scary as an entrepreneur, especially if you're running your own businesses, then your brain moving slower than usual.
The stressful part is there's a lot of fear of leaving teaching and a lot of fear of won't be able to do anything else. And what that does is also makes people stay in something that's going to burn them to the ground. And eventually they end up on sick leave for, well, sometimes years. I don't know if you know any teachers who are in that setup. I do. And I think that's
The stressful part is there's a lot of fear of leaving teaching and a lot of fear of won't be able to do anything else. And what that does is also makes people stay in something that's going to burn them to the ground. And eventually they end up on sick leave for, well, sometimes years. I don't know if you know any teachers who are in that setup. I do. And I think that's
There are a lot of people that I meet, especially older people who hate what they do. They absolutely hate it. And sometimes people come into our programs and they're so, and it wasn't, it's not even the intention of what we do at our company, but they're so thankful to have found something that they actually enjoy doing. And they never thought they would see an alternative.
There are a lot of people that I meet, especially older people who hate what they do. They absolutely hate it. And sometimes people come into our programs and they're so, and it wasn't, it's not even the intention of what we do at our company, but they're so thankful to have found something that they actually enjoy doing. And they never thought they would see an alternative.
I think, I don't know if you've ever had something like that, where you get it, you get sick or something happens and you become more stupid.
I think, I don't know if you've ever had something like that, where you get it, you get sick or something happens and you become more stupid.
And I never connected even our marketing doesn't even touch on that topic. But hearing somebody talk about building this teaching transition coaching business where you have multiple coaches hired, don't care what you think about coaching businesses, it's just an example. But there are... Just so many people stuck in jobs, like so many people stuck when they're 55 in a job they just despise.
And I never connected even our marketing doesn't even touch on that topic. But hearing somebody talk about building this teaching transition coaching business where you have multiple coaches hired, don't care what you think about coaching businesses, it's just an example. But there are... Just so many people stuck in jobs, like so many people stuck when they're 55 in a job they just despise.
But the fear, the fear of not being able to do something else, you can really you can create things that are just super valuable for these people. But yeah, this teachers in transition subreddit is the perfect place to fill yourself up on the problem teachers have. It's mostly negative posts if you look at it.
But the fear, the fear of not being able to do something else, you can really you can create things that are just super valuable for these people. But yeah, this teachers in transition subreddit is the perfect place to fill yourself up on the problem teachers have. It's mostly negative posts if you look at it.
The other thing I thought of is, and I found a couple of examples of this as well. Again, all... I like finding examples. We talked about this with the deep brown noise thing.
The other thing I thought of is, and I found a couple of examples of this as well. Again, all... I like finding examples. We talked about this with the deep brown noise thing.
It's like fragmented, scattered all over the internet, tiny little pockets of it, but paid communities, again, paid communities for teachers who are still in teaching, who are looking for essentially a support group, but also maybe looking for a way out and just having like a private space where people can also share things that will help each other have an easier teaching life.
It's like fragmented, scattered all over the internet, tiny little pockets of it, but paid communities, again, paid communities for teachers who are still in teaching, who are looking for essentially a support group, but also maybe looking for a way out and just having like a private space where people can also share things that will help each other have an easier teaching life.
Again, this is not something I would personally pursue because I'm not interested in teaching. But just watching this other lady in my entrepreneur group running and I'm like, holy crap, like this is genuinely you're doing a business that makes you money, but also takes people from being burnt out and hating their lives to genuinely feeling completely different about their futures.
Again, this is not something I would personally pursue because I'm not interested in teaching. But just watching this other lady in my entrepreneur group running and I'm like, holy crap, like this is genuinely you're doing a business that makes you money, but also takes people from being burnt out and hating their lives to genuinely feeling completely different about their futures.
That's just the standard speed for you, right?
That's just the standard speed for you, right?
it's just crazy how many different jobs that fall into this category. I almost can't think of a job where it wouldn't fall into this category. I can even imagine if you want to go to the super high end, like the end game of this is, what do you do when you're an entrepreneur who sold their company
it's just crazy how many different jobs that fall into this category. I almost can't think of a job where it wouldn't fall into this category. I can even imagine if you want to go to the super high end, like the end game of this is, what do you do when you're an entrepreneur who sold their company
And you're like 40 and you've nothing to do anymore because you've nailed it and finished the video game of business. How do you transition into something else? I even think that could be a cool thing to help people with. I'm not there yet, so I can't do it.
And you're like 40 and you've nothing to do anymore because you've nailed it and finished the video game of business. How do you transition into something else? I even think that could be a cool thing to help people with. I'm not there yet, so I can't do it.
I don't know, man. But I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. These guys, I haven't used their product so I can't vouch for it, but But it's purple, so it's good. Exactly. Then you want to use 11 Labs for AI voiceovers. So you just put in the script. You get the voiceover. And then using something like vidIQ, which is a Chrome extension for keyword research and channel optimization.
I don't know, man. But I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. These guys, I haven't used their product so I can't vouch for it, but But it's purple, so it's good. Exactly. Then you want to use 11 Labs for AI voiceovers. So you just put in the script. You get the voiceover. And then using something like vidIQ, which is a Chrome extension for keyword research and channel optimization.
You can also use MrBeast has a new one called... Viewstats, viewstats.com. So, and there you have it in a box. But I think what's missing from here is you got to pick a niche that's high value and because it's not just about the views, it's about converting those views into products and services and communities.
You can also use MrBeast has a new one called... Viewstats, viewstats.com. So, and there you have it in a box. But I think what's missing from here is you got to pick a niche that's high value and because it's not just about the views, it's about converting those views into products and services and communities.
Or we explode.
Or we explode.
I think so. I think a lot of people listening to this probably have jobs and they just kind of want to set up something on the side. And then maybe it turns into something super big and maybe it doesn't need to. I mean, it could just be like... making $100,000 a year or whatever it is on the side.
I think so. I think a lot of people listening to this probably have jobs and they just kind of want to set up something on the side. And then maybe it turns into something super big and maybe it doesn't need to. I mean, it could just be like... making $100,000 a year or whatever it is on the side.
Less than 72 hours. Seriously? Yeah, yeah. I think, I mean, dude, 72 hours is conservative. Like 7.2 hours is realistic. But just giving extra time, I think 72 hours, like the hardest part is going to be picking a niche that doesn't have a ton of competition that you think could stand out, that you think can go viral. I mean, writing a script is really not hard.
Less than 72 hours. Seriously? Yeah, yeah. I think, I mean, dude, 72 hours is conservative. Like 7.2 hours is realistic. But just giving extra time, I think 72 hours, like the hardest part is going to be picking a niche that doesn't have a ton of competition that you think could stand out, that you think can go viral. I mean, writing a script is really not hard.
And I mean, with Fiverr, if you want to use Fiverr, like, okay, that just extends your time 24 hours probably. Um, but all the other tools, like they're quick.
And I mean, with Fiverr, if you want to use Fiverr, like, okay, that just extends your time 24 hours probably. Um, but all the other tools, like they're quick.
No, I always start with the niche in mind, like the audience. And I'm always like, okay, what's a lifestyle? I generally prefer targeting lifestyles because there's like stronger, there's a stronger community with a lifestyle than just like a random audience. So I usually start with that. And I always try to look at like, what's a, what's a new, interesting lifestyle.
No, I always start with the niche in mind, like the audience. And I'm always like, okay, what's a lifestyle? I generally prefer targeting lifestyles because there's like stronger, there's a stronger community with a lifestyle than just like a random audience. So I usually start with that. And I always try to look at like, what's a, what's a new, interesting lifestyle.
And like, for example, with, with the brick one, it's like, there's this whole generation of people who are like anti-phones and
And like, for example, with, with the brick one, it's like, there's this whole generation of people who are like anti-phones and
they're buying like dumb phones um and it's starting to get it's starting you just start to see it like the posts that are going viral are like i left my phone and went for a walk and and then i see who replies i'm like that's a dumb post like and i see who replies to it and it's at jice cream on twitter oh my god i never thought about taking a walk
they're buying like dumb phones um and it's starting to get it's starting you just start to see it like the posts that are going viral are like i left my phone and went for a walk and and then i see who replies i'm like that's a dumb post like and i see who replies to it and it's at jice cream on twitter oh my god i never thought about taking a walk
And it's like, great, you know, and you can sell that you make $100,000 a year and you can sell that at five times ARR if you want.
And it's like, great, you know, and you can sell that you make $100,000 a year and you can sell that at five times ARR if you want.
I just feel bad for the receptionist at the climbing place. That's what I feel.
I just feel bad for the receptionist at the climbing place. That's what I feel.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
I would say, uh, I'm targeting people of the XYZ community.
I would say, uh, I'm targeting people of the XYZ community.
Of the climbing community, of the anti-smartphone community, of the, you know...
Of the climbing community, of the anti-smartphone community, of the, you know...
keto diet diet community yeah i think those are the strongest and those unsocial just do the best because people people people see that content and you know half the people are more than half the people are like this doesn't pertain to me but the people who are into keto are like really into keto and then once you you know what once you
keto diet diet community yeah i think those are the strongest and those unsocial just do the best because people people people see that content and you know half the people are more than half the people are like this doesn't pertain to me but the people who are into keto are like really into keto and then once you you know what once you
What most people are doing and what people are missing on faceless channels is they're not picking these niches. They're not really picking niches. They're just like, how do I get as much views as possible so I can monetize via ads? Whereas The move is to be like, what is the most high impact niche to go after? And then how do I create faceless content for that niche?
What most people are doing and what people are missing on faceless channels is they're not picking these niches. They're not really picking niches. They're just like, how do I get as much views as possible so I can monetize via ads? Whereas The move is to be like, what is the most high impact niche to go after? And then how do I create faceless content for that niche?
you build this faceless YouTube channel or it could be on other platforms too. It could be on Instagram, whatever. Once you have that audience and now you're like one of the de facto places where that community is getting content, then that's when you can build like a set of products and services for that audience.
you build this faceless YouTube channel or it could be on other platforms too. It could be on Instagram, whatever. Once you have that audience and now you're like one of the de facto places where that community is getting content, then that's when you can build like a set of products and services for that audience.
And the reason like I love starting at audience first is now you understand that audience better than anyone. Because when you're optimizing scripts, And you're optimizing titles and you're optimizing thumbnails. And the difference between one word is the difference if your video pops that day or goes nowhere. And that's like the YouTube algorithm.
And the reason like I love starting at audience first is now you understand that audience better than anyone. Because when you're optimizing scripts, And you're optimizing titles and you're optimizing thumbnails. And the difference between one word is the difference if your video pops that day or goes nowhere. And that's like the YouTube algorithm.
I've had videos that just changing a word to a number is the difference between 40,000 views and 400 views. And that's just the reality. That's just the reality. And especially if you're relying on this for income, if that's the difference between $40 a day or $4 a day, sorry, and $400 a day or $4,000 a day, like you're going to pay attention to what this audience clicks.
I've had videos that just changing a word to a number is the difference between 40,000 views and 400 views. And that's just the reality. That's just the reality. And especially if you're relying on this for income, if that's the difference between $40 a day or $4 a day, sorry, and $400 a day or $4,000 a day, like you're going to pay attention to what this audience clicks.
And it's not just like the clickbait. It's also the retention. What is going to retain these people? So that's why I think doing a faceless channel in a particular niche, great way to get started if you want to start a business.
And it's not just like the clickbait. It's also the retention. What is going to retain these people? So that's why I think doing a faceless channel in a particular niche, great way to get started if you want to start a business.
Yes.
Yes.
Oh, 100%. Do you feel, now that you know how the sausage is made, are you embarrassed to watch faceless video?
Oh, 100%. Do you feel, now that you know how the sausage is made, are you embarrassed to watch faceless video?
Yeah. It's YouTube channels.
Yeah. It's YouTube channels.
Right. And I think that's the hallmark of a great video, right? I think like if you're creating faceless, you know, YouTube content, for example, Just create great YouTube content.
Right. And I think that's the hallmark of a great video, right? I think like if you're creating faceless, you know, YouTube content, for example, Just create great YouTube content.
That's so lame. That is so lame, right? Like when I, that's the thing with faceless YouTube channels is they all are making money on Patreon and, um,
That's so lame. That is so lame, right? Like when I, that's the thing with faceless YouTube channels is they all are making money on Patreon and, um,
Would it be? Here's my take. Here's my take. Hit me. I'm about to hit you. You don't even know what's coming right now. Okay. All right. The amount of work it takes to create a faceless YouTube channel in a lower quality niche is And a faceless YouTube channel with a higher quality niche that has the potential to extend beyond ads to create something really simple.
Would it be? Here's my take. Here's my take. Hit me. I'm about to hit you. You don't even know what's coming right now. Okay. All right. The amount of work it takes to create a faceless YouTube channel in a lower quality niche is And a faceless YouTube channel with a higher quality niche that has the potential to extend beyond ads to create something really simple.
I'm talking about you're selling a PDF, you know, on Gumroad. You're creating a paid community on school. You're like, I'm talking, you know, you're creating a pretty simple SaaS app. Like these are things that especially now, the tools are so easy and there's global talent. I just figure if I'm going to build any faceless YouTube channel, I'd much rather it be the latter, not the former.
I'm talking about you're selling a PDF, you know, on Gumroad. You're creating a paid community on school. You're like, I'm talking, you know, you're creating a pretty simple SaaS app. Like these are things that especially now, the tools are so easy and there's global talent. I just figure if I'm going to build any faceless YouTube channel, I'd much rather it be the latter, not the former.
That's true. By the way, you know what also is a faceless YouTube channel? Literally like every animation channel. The Infographics Show. Do you know that one? No, but that's on the list, actually. So they've got 14.3 million subscribers. So we're talking... This is a top YouTube channel. Like, period.
That's true. By the way, you know what also is a faceless YouTube channel? Literally like every animation channel. The Infographics Show. Do you know that one? No, but that's on the list, actually. So they've got 14.3 million subscribers. So we're talking... This is a top YouTube channel. Like, period.
Yeah. And they create a video every day. I'm almost certain that they use AI. Sorry. And they do... So I'll read you some of their videos. Like their latest video is how your pet is trying to warn you that you are going to die. And it's a four hour and six minute video. So these people are creating long videos, animation, AI enhanced. You know what?
Yeah. And they create a video every day. I'm almost certain that they use AI. Sorry. And they do... So I'll read you some of their videos. Like their latest video is how your pet is trying to warn you that you are going to die. And it's a four hour and six minute video. So these people are creating long videos, animation, AI enhanced. You know what?
I bet you on a video like that, just on ad revenue, they are making... you know, 10 grand, 15 grand easy. Because how long it is.
I bet you on a video like that, just on ad revenue, they are making... you know, 10 grand, 15 grand easy. Because how long it is.
Totally. I think that's the secret that no one's talking about is if you look on social, Quora, Reddit, TikTok, even other YouTube videos, you see which videos are being validated. So if you could basically create faceless versions of them, but also add value, you're not going to... Don't go on YouTube, find a non-faceless video and create a Facebook video because...
Totally. I think that's the secret that no one's talking about is if you look on social, Quora, Reddit, TikTok, even other YouTube videos, you see which videos are being validated. So if you could basically create faceless versions of them, but also add value, you're not going to... Don't go on YouTube, find a non-faceless video and create a Facebook video because...
You want to give credit to Cody Schneider.
You want to give credit to Cody Schneider.
It's probably not going to work if it's just a copy. And it's just wrong, frankly.
It's probably not going to work if it's just a copy. And it's just wrong, frankly.
Not going to work.
Not going to work.
I don't know why you're not doing it.
I don't know why you're not doing it.
And I think everyone should start a faceless YouTube channel. At the very least.
And I think everyone should start a faceless YouTube channel. At the very least.
So hopefully no one got to this point in the episode, but you should start a faceless YouTube channel. At the very least, you're going to learn about the audience and you're going to learn these AI tools, which is a win.
So hopefully no one got to this point in the episode, but you should start a faceless YouTube channel. At the very least, you're going to learn about the audience and you're going to learn these AI tools, which is a win.
We'll link it. We'll link it.
We'll link it. We'll link it.
I mean, worst case is this. You spend a couple hundred dollars on AI tools and you waste some time.
I mean, worst case is this. You spend a couple hundred dollars on AI tools and you waste some time.
And you now know more about how to use these AI tools and how to build audiences more than 99.9% of the population. Literally the worst case. No one's heard of Creo. No one's heard of some of these tools. So you will be more advantageous than most people.
And you now know more about how to use these AI tools and how to build audiences more than 99.9% of the population. Literally the worst case. No one's heard of Creo. No one's heard of some of these tools. So you will be more advantageous than most people.
There's a lot of appeal and the, and you know, what does this look like if it, if it works out? Well, you've just created an audience that is, is worth millions, definitely. Uh, and might have millions of views per month, you know, building affinity, um, and, If you're working, you might be able to quit your job. You can double down. It is so much leverage in your life.
There's a lot of appeal and the, and you know, what does this look like if it, if it works out? Well, you've just created an audience that is, is worth millions, definitely. Uh, and might have millions of views per month, you know, building affinity, um, and, If you're working, you might be able to quit your job. You can double down. It is so much leverage in your life.
It's the same pitch around why start. Go back to 2007, 2008, 2009. Could have made the same pitch about starting an Instagram account or starting a YouTube channel or starting a Twitter account. It's like, what is the downside? You're going to lose some time and a few dollars.
It's the same pitch around why start. Go back to 2007, 2008, 2009. Could have made the same pitch about starting an Instagram account or starting a YouTube channel or starting a Twitter account. It's like, what is the downside? You're going to lose some time and a few dollars.
Yeah. Well, I think there's, if you fail, the reality is this, here's what you're not saying. The reality is if it fails, it's not as personal.
Yeah. Well, I think there's, if you fail, the reality is this, here's what you're not saying. The reality is if it fails, it's not as personal.
I don't think this was a reminder of Start a faceless YouTube channel. Or start a faceless channel. Go. Do it.
I don't think this was a reminder of Start a faceless YouTube channel. Or start a faceless channel. Go. Do it.
Anything else you want to say before we jump?
Anything else you want to say before we jump?
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I think we, I think we, what do you think? Cause I think focus is, I don't know.
I think we, I think we, what do you think? Cause I think focus is, I don't know.
That was actually pretty good.
That was actually pretty good.
it's an audio version of what you would have written a hundred percent yeah you nailed it you nailed it you nailed it i think there's a lot of short-term minded people in the faceless youtube game but the long term yeah the long term the long term niche focus um eventually building products and services acp funnel as i always say audience community product um
it's an audio version of what you would have written a hundred percent yeah you nailed it you nailed it you nailed it i think there's a lot of short-term minded people in the faceless youtube game but the long term yeah the long term the long term niche focus um eventually building products and services acp funnel as i always say audience community product um
It's basically that. I mean, you got it.
It's basically that. I mean, you got it.
should do well and at least you'll learn. So this has been real. And if you want to compliment Jonathan in the YouTube comments, he is accepting compliments. I got a haircut.
should do well and at least you'll learn. So this has been real. And if you want to compliment Jonathan in the YouTube comments, he is accepting compliments. I got a haircut.
It's the only way, I hate doing this, but it's the only way the video gets seen is if we get likes and comments. So if you enjoy this, just go and quick like, quick comment. And that's how we know we should continue making these videos. We do it for you. And we do love you.
It's the only way, I hate doing this, but it's the only way the video gets seen is if we get likes and comments. So if you enjoy this, just go and quick like, quick comment. And that's how we know we should continue making these videos. We do it for you. And we do love you.
Crazy Taxi? Wow.
Crazy Taxi? Wow.
When was the last time you played Crazy Taxi?
When was the last time you played Crazy Taxi?
I'm so out on that. Yeah. It's so glorious.
I'm so out on that. Yeah. It's so glorious.
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to play it. But that is hot news. And that's actually smart to build the faceless Crazy Taxi YouTube channel before it comes out. So when it hits...
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to play it. But that is hot news. And that's actually smart to build the faceless Crazy Taxi YouTube channel before it comes out. So when it hits...
Later everyone.
Later everyone.
So if you want to do this, here's how I would do it using mostly AI tools. All right. Jonathan, Jice, Cream, Courtney, you're back.
So if you want to do this, here's how I would do it using mostly AI tools. All right. Jonathan, Jice, Cream, Courtney, you're back.
Well, that's because the DTC bro is now the faceless YouTube bro who was previously the crypto bro.
Well, that's because the DTC bro is now the faceless YouTube bro who was previously the crypto bro.
right so like the next this is like the next gold rush and quick ad break let me tell you about a business i invested in it's called boringmarketing.com so a few years ago i met this group of people that were some of the best seo experts in the world they were behind getting some of the biggest companies found on google and the secret sauce is they've got a set of technology and ai
right so like the next this is like the next gold rush and quick ad break let me tell you about a business i invested in it's called boringmarketing.com so a few years ago i met this group of people that were some of the best seo experts in the world they were behind getting some of the biggest companies found on google and the secret sauce is they've got a set of technology and ai
that could help you outrank your competition. So for my own businesses, I wanted that. I didn't want to have to rely on Mark Zuckerberg. I didn't want to depend on ads to drive customers to my businesses. I wanted to rank high in Google. That's why I like SEO and that's why I use boringmarketing.com and that's why I invested in it.
that could help you outrank your competition. So for my own businesses, I wanted that. I didn't want to have to rely on Mark Zuckerberg. I didn't want to depend on ads to drive customers to my businesses. I wanted to rank high in Google. That's why I like SEO and that's why I use boringmarketing.com and that's why I invested in it.
They're so confident in their approach that they offer a 30 day sprint with 100% money back guarantee. Who does that nowadays? So check it out. Highly recommend boringmarketing.com. You know, when I say that a lot of people are going to listen to this and they're going to be like, oh, I don't want to be. I don't want to be a DTC bro or whatever.
They're so confident in their approach that they offer a 30 day sprint with 100% money back guarantee. Who does that nowadays? So check it out. Highly recommend boringmarketing.com. You know, when I say that a lot of people are going to listen to this and they're going to be like, oh, I don't want to be. I don't want to be a DTC bro or whatever.
But to your point, there's there's like a small subset of people who are doing faceless channels like so right. and actually adding value to the internet that, you know, this is just one of the, it's just one of the best ways to build an audience right now. Like just point blank.
But to your point, there's there's like a small subset of people who are doing faceless channels like so right. and actually adding value to the internet that, you know, this is just one of the, it's just one of the best ways to build an audience right now. Like just point blank.
So here's what I think people are missing with faceless video channels is like traditional media, they're monetizing it basically only with ads. So a lot of these people are just, okay, I'm going to throw up a faceless YouTube channel. I'm going to clip You know what a lot of people are doing, by the way? I don't know if you've seen this. It's all over my TikTok feed.
So here's what I think people are missing with faceless video channels is like traditional media, they're monetizing it basically only with ads. So a lot of these people are just, okay, I'm going to throw up a faceless YouTube channel. I'm going to clip You know what a lot of people are doing, by the way? I don't know if you've seen this. It's all over my TikTok feed.
They're taking Joe Rogan's voice and just telling interesting stories with Joe Rogan's voice. Have you seen this?
They're taking Joe Rogan's voice and just telling interesting stories with Joe Rogan's voice. Have you seen this?
Yeah, I've heard that. Quick story on this. Every night when I want to chill out and numb my brain a little bit, Your boy goes to TikTok. Okay? Your boy goes to TikTok. And I'm noticing that 10% of my feed is these... Joe Rogan telling these such interesting stories about like stuff that I would never expect Joe Rogan to talk about. Like how dolphins were, you know...
Yeah, I've heard that. Quick story on this. Every night when I want to chill out and numb my brain a little bit, Your boy goes to TikTok. Okay? Your boy goes to TikTok. And I'm noticing that 10% of my feed is these... Joe Rogan telling these such interesting stories about like stuff that I would never expect Joe Rogan to talk about. Like how dolphins were, you know...
essentially aliens and just the craziest stuff. And it's entertaining. I'm not saying I believe that dolphins, you know, are, you know, I, I'm not saying I believe that, you know, dolphins are, you know, smarter than human beings and like colonized, you know, the planet and stuff like that. Anyways, point is I'm getting these videos left, right and center.
essentially aliens and just the craziest stuff. And it's entertaining. I'm not saying I believe that dolphins, you know, are, you know, I, I'm not saying I believe that, you know, dolphins are, you know, smarter than human beings and like colonized, you know, the planet and stuff like that. Anyways, point is I'm getting these videos left, right and center.
And I'm like, at a certain point I was like, there's no way that Joe Rogan said this. There's just absolutely zero chance that he's saying like thousands of these stories. And turns out it's a faceless TikTok YouTube channel. I don't remember the name. And people like that are making, you know, 10 to 100K a month on these channels. But I think the move is not to do it with ads.
And I'm like, at a certain point I was like, there's no way that Joe Rogan said this. There's just absolutely zero chance that he's saying like thousands of these stories. And turns out it's a faceless TikTok YouTube channel. I don't remember the name. And people like that are making, you know, 10 to 100K a month on these channels. But I think the move is not to do it with ads.
You're like the gecko of the Startup Ideas podcast.
You're like the gecko of the Startup Ideas podcast.
It's to build your own products. Like I talk about always the ACP funnel, right? Build an audience, then convert to a community and then build a product for them. What most people are doing and what people are missing on faceless channels is they're not picking these niches. They're not really picking niches. They're just like, how do I get as much views as possible so I can monetize via ads?
It's to build your own products. Like I talk about always the ACP funnel, right? Build an audience, then convert to a community and then build a product for them. What most people are doing and what people are missing on faceless channels is they're not picking these niches. They're not really picking niches. They're just like, how do I get as much views as possible so I can monetize via ads?
Whereas The move is to be like, what is the most high-impact niche to go after? And then how do I create faceless content for that niche?
Whereas The move is to be like, what is the most high-impact niche to go after? And then how do I create faceless content for that niche?
So if you want to do this, here's how I would do it using mostly AI tools. So step one is you got to come up with ideas. You need a script and you want to optimize your script. I would probably use a mixture of ChatGPT, Cloud, Um, I'd probably use a tool like gummy search, um, which I'm actually going to create a whole search. Yeah.
So if you want to do this, here's how I would do it using mostly AI tools. So step one is you got to come up with ideas. You need a script and you want to optimize your script. I would probably use a mixture of ChatGPT, Cloud, Um, I'd probably use a tool like gummy search, um, which I'm actually going to create a whole search. Yeah.
I'm going to create, I'm actually going to create a whole separate video on how to mine for gold on Reddit and some of these platforms.
I'm going to create, I'm actually going to create a whole separate video on how to mine for gold on Reddit and some of these platforms.
Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really key. It's really cool. I use it every day actually. So I'm going to, I'll do, um, I'll do a whole video on that, but I would use that to basically see like in different subreddits, um, What is being, you know, what's popular? What are people talking about? And then, yeah, I would use ChatGPT and Clo to create that script. You could also use Fiverr to supplement it.
Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really key. It's really cool. I use it every day actually. So I'm going to, I'll do, um, I'll do a whole video on that, but I would use that to basically see like in different subreddits, um, What is being, you know, what's popular? What are people talking about? And then, yeah, I would use ChatGPT and Clo to create that script. You could also use Fiverr to supplement it.
Step two is you need to create the images. So, you know, before... If you want to create a viral YouTube video, it's all about title and thumbnail. So you want to optimize for the image. So I'd probably use Dally 2 or something like that for the image generation. Step three is you're going to have to create the video. So there's a bunch of tools like this. There's NVIDIA AI.
Step two is you need to create the images. So, you know, before... If you want to create a viral YouTube video, it's all about title and thumbnail. So you want to optimize for the image. So I'd probably use Dally 2 or something like that for the image generation. Step three is you're going to have to create the video. So there's a bunch of tools like this. There's NVIDIA AI.
There's a new one called, let me pull it up. It's called Crayo. C-R-A-Y-O. Creo.ai.
There's a new one called, let me pull it up. It's called Crayo. C-R-A-Y-O. Creo.ai.
These are like faceless YouTube guys who created this.
These are like faceless YouTube guys who created this.
This will make minimum $1 million per year. What if we look back to the things that were popular and exciting when we were 14.5 and you try to milk the nostalgia out of those things to create new products? And I'll give you an example. I was obsessed with the video game Halo back when I was like 13, 14. And I used to do LAN parties a lot back then.
This will make minimum $1 million per year. What if we look back to the things that were popular and exciting when we were 14.5 and you try to milk the nostalgia out of those things to create new products? And I'll give you an example. I was obsessed with the video game Halo back when I was like 13, 14. And I used to do LAN parties a lot back then.
I did. So I sent you a text message and I said, I saw this thing, I saw this survey, and also something else happened. And somehow it's connected in my mind and we need to talk about it because I think your audience needs to hear about it. And then I couldn't find the survey and then you found it. So that was the whole thing.
I did. So I sent you a text message and I said, I saw this thing, I saw this survey, and also something else happened. And somehow it's connected in my mind and we need to talk about it because I think your audience needs to hear about it. And then I couldn't find the survey and then you found it. So that was the whole thing.
I'd love it, honestly. If someone does this in Berlin, I'm in. I'd rather be paying for this than a lot of other... Because this goes into a bigger topic, by the way. You know this idea that when AI gets better, we're all going to have nothing to do. And actually, entertainment becomes more and more important. Filling your time with entertainment is... It sounds ridiculous.
I'd love it, honestly. If someone does this in Berlin, I'm in. I'd rather be paying for this than a lot of other... Because this goes into a bigger topic, by the way. You know this idea that when AI gets better, we're all going to have nothing to do. And actually, entertainment becomes more and more important. Filling your time with entertainment is... It sounds ridiculous.
I also saw this guy on Twitter. He was doing this post. Maybe you saw it. It was like, since 1885, we've been living in a world of abundance. And so we don't actually need to do anything. Most of us are just making up our work. Look what we're doing right now, dude. And so entertainment becomes super, super important.
I also saw this guy on Twitter. He was doing this post. Maybe you saw it. It was like, since 1885, we've been living in a world of abundance. And so we don't actually need to do anything. Most of us are just making up our work. Look what we're doing right now, dude. And so entertainment becomes super, super important.
And it becomes an actual important industry because we're all going to be so bored. And I think, yeah, just tapping into that nostalgia, tapping into the IRL thing. Dude, online gaming did not kick off for me at all. The last time I really enjoyed multiplayer gaming was Halo 3 with a friend of mine, Alex, in person. I'm not the multiplayer gamer, but I love gaming.
And it becomes an actual important industry because we're all going to be so bored. And I think, yeah, just tapping into that nostalgia, tapping into the IRL thing. Dude, online gaming did not kick off for me at all. The last time I really enjoyed multiplayer gaming was Halo 3 with a friend of mine, Alex, in person. I'm not the multiplayer gamer, but I love gaming.
I want to go hang out and play games with people.
I want to go hang out and play games with people.
Do you still play a lot of PC games?
Do you still play a lot of PC games?
You should, though. Treat yourself.
You should, though. Treat yourself.
You should just do it. Another... Another Steam, I have the Steam deck here for anyone who hasn't seen it. The Steam store is also full to the brim of games that tap into different types of nostalgia. Right now I'm playing a game called Bellatro, which is just like a, it's kind of looks like solitaire, but it's kind of like a weird haunted poker game.
You should just do it. Another... Another Steam, I have the Steam deck here for anyone who hasn't seen it. The Steam store is also full to the brim of games that tap into different types of nostalgia. Right now I'm playing a game called Bellatro, which is just like a, it's kind of looks like solitaire, but it's kind of like a weird haunted poker game.
I'm also playing a game called Roadwarden at the moment, which again is just full on Game Boy Color vibes, which is super cool. And it really appeals to me. I think there's just this... I don't know. I also love AAA video games, but there's something that drags deep into my soul and deep into my wallet when I see anything relating to video gaming from when I was younger.
I'm also playing a game called Roadwarden at the moment, which again is just full on Game Boy Color vibes, which is super cool. And it really appeals to me. I think there's just this... I don't know. I also love AAA video games, but there's something that drags deep into my soul and deep into my wallet when I see anything relating to video gaming from when I was younger.
That mod retro, I didn't even read. I was like, I need it. I need it right now. And by the way, the shipping to Europe is almost the same price as the object and I still had to have it. If they can do that to me, there's a market.
That mod retro, I didn't even read. I was like, I need it. I need it right now. And by the way, the shipping to Europe is almost the same price as the object and I still had to have it. If they can do that to me, there's a market.
The survey is called, or actually, well, I don't know exactly the name of the survey, but the important part of it is called Nostalgia Tends to Peak at a Single Age. And nostalgia, in this case, you can see, I guess you'll see this in the video version, In the study, they asked people when was the most moral society? When were the happiest families? When was the best music?
The survey is called, or actually, well, I don't know exactly the name of the survey, but the important part of it is called Nostalgia Tends to Peak at a Single Age. And nostalgia, in this case, you can see, I guess you'll see this in the video version, In the study, they asked people when was the most moral society? When were the happiest families? When was the best music?
run paid ads i know you're a big paid ads guy i love paid ads yeah you love paid you love paid ads as much as you love halo i shot like 30 new ads today i saw some guy on twitter say that meta ads uh i can't remember who it was i should remember this stuff uh to get them a shout out Actually, he did a great job. Maybe I should give him a shout out. So you bring him on your pod.
run paid ads i know you're a big paid ads guy i love paid ads yeah you love paid you love paid ads as much as you love halo i shot like 30 new ads today i saw some guy on twitter say that meta ads uh i can't remember who it was i should remember this stuff uh to get them a shout out Actually, he did a great job. Maybe I should give him a shout out. So you bring him on your pod.
He is like this ads expert. And he was talking about the idea that like a lot of people who are running paid ads just don't run actually enough ads. And so the algorithm can't really tell which things are working. You know, as in the more ads you have, the more likely you are to find the winners. And then you can kind of double down on those winners. but it takes a while to find the winners.
He is like this ads expert. And he was talking about the idea that like a lot of people who are running paid ads just don't run actually enough ads. And so the algorithm can't really tell which things are working. You know, as in the more ads you have, the more likely you are to find the winners. And then you can kind of double down on those winners. but it takes a while to find the winners.
I'm not going to go fully into that now, but I can find it. It was really good. I recorded loads of ads. Back to nostalgia. Dude, you know what? People are going to get nostalgic. When the people who are 15 years old watching the ads with me and them right now, in 15 years, I am going to be nostalgic to them.
I'm not going to go fully into that now, but I can find it. It was really good. I recorded loads of ads. Back to nostalgia. Dude, you know what? People are going to get nostalgic. When the people who are 15 years old watching the ads with me and them right now, in 15 years, I am going to be nostalgic to them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's fully bedtime. My eight sleep is like pissed off right now that I'm not, that my eight sleep is going to be angry that I did this podcast so late, but I just had the urge to tell you about this graph.
It's fully bedtime. My eight sleep is like pissed off right now that I'm not, that my eight sleep is going to be angry that I did this podcast so late, but I just had the urge to tell you about this graph.
Is that relating to the eight sleep kind of bursting and soaking the whole bed or?
Is that relating to the eight sleep kind of bursting and soaking the whole bed or?
Is this relating to like, if I hadn't told you the idea, the idea would have changed tomorrow? Or is this related to something nostalgia related?
Is this relating to like, if I hadn't told you the idea, the idea would have changed tomorrow? Or is this related to something nostalgia related?
That's true. River moves on.
That's true. River moves on.
I think I just kind of, I just don't, why are you saying this quote? Yeah. because i don't know man i don't know but we gotta leave this in i like leave this in i guys i don't know why greg said that but later when i'm watching back i'll be like oh yeah like how didn't i get that like i don't know why you said that quote yeah i just i just wanted to confuse you
I think I just kind of, I just don't, why are you saying this quote? Yeah. because i don't know man i don't know but we gotta leave this in i like leave this in i guys i don't know why greg said that but later when i'm watching back i'll be like oh yeah like how didn't i get that like i don't know why you said that quote yeah i just i just wanted to confuse you
I could pretend that I'd... Oh, yeah. You're right. Yes. Twice. Yes. River. I understand. Yes.
I could pretend that I'd... Oh, yeah. You're right. Yes. Twice. Yes. River. I understand. Yes.
That is a great... It is actually... It is a great quote for something, I suppose. Yeah.
That is a great... It is actually... It is a great quote for something, I suppose. Yeah.
When was the best fashion? When was the best economy? When was the best television? When was the best cuisine? And it asked people to sort of rate when these things were the best according to them. And it asked people from a broad range of ages. A lot of people came to the same kind of
When was the best fashion? When was the best economy? When was the best television? When was the best cuisine? And it asked people to sort of rate when these things were the best according to them. And it asked people from a broad range of ages. A lot of people came to the same kind of
I do think that content would be the easiest way to start. And that content would probably be, you know, let's say Metal Gear Solid is probably one of those things that a lot of people in my generation were like obsessed with. I remember like everyone looking at every detail of the trailer for MGS2 was one of these just obsessive things.
I do think that content would be the easiest way to start. And that content would probably be, you know, let's say Metal Gear Solid is probably one of those things that a lot of people in my generation were like obsessed with. I remember like everyone looking at every detail of the trailer for MGS2 was one of these just obsessive things.
And so what I would probably do is realistically start a YouTube channel. And I would maybe do a series on one specific game. And that series would be like breaking down what made it so special. I would try to recapture the excitement of looking at the trailers and it would be almost like a little kind of low-end documentary about maybe something like Metal Gear Solid, for example.
And so what I would probably do is realistically start a YouTube channel. And I would maybe do a series on one specific game. And that series would be like breaking down what made it so special. I would try to recapture the excitement of looking at the trailers and it would be almost like a little kind of low-end documentary about maybe something like Metal Gear Solid, for example.
I would try to get an audience. Basically, I would try to get as much of an audience as possible.
I would try to get an audience. Basically, I would try to get as much of an audience as possible.
and honestly if i'm thinking about a high-end product just in something that i would know how to create i would probably create a coffee table book uh something like we talked about the um last week this guy who does the video game magazine um what's it called a something waste of time i actually have it literally right behind me uh what was it called a ap oh dude i don't know
and honestly if i'm thinking about a high-end product just in something that i would know how to create i would probably create a coffee table book uh something like we talked about the um last week this guy who does the video game magazine um what's it called a something waste of time i actually have it literally right behind me uh what was it called a ap oh dude i don't know
it was in the podcast i know i know exactly i can picture the website i don't know what it's yeah he's really leaning into this like he he's interviewing video game developers who worked on games from like you know 10 to dude you know uh one of the biggest reveals this week in the playstation event i'm obsessed with the video game industry by the way uh one of the biggest reveals this week in the playstation event uh one of the biggest showcases was silent hill 2.
it was in the podcast i know i know exactly i can picture the website i don't know what it's yeah he's really leaning into this like he he's interviewing video game developers who worked on games from like you know 10 to dude you know uh one of the biggest reveals this week in the playstation event i'm obsessed with the video game industry by the way uh one of the biggest reveals this week in the playstation event uh one of the biggest showcases was silent hill 2.
And so that would be an example. That's getting remade. Like, if you played a game that really stuck with you, that you became obsessed with, that you got really into... making content about that product and I wouldn't even sell it.
And so that would be an example. That's getting remade. Like, if you played a game that really stuck with you, that you became obsessed with, that you got really into... making content about that product and I wouldn't even sell it.
The high-end product probably would be a coffee table book about either one game or it's about a couple of games that came out for maybe there's a special coffee table book just for the PS1 or just for the PS2 or just for Halo. That would be probably my angle. What would yours be? Oh, I got one more. I got one more. Controllers.
The high-end product probably would be a coffee table book about either one game or it's about a couple of games that came out for maybe there's a special coffee table book just for the PS1 or just for the PS2 or just for Halo. That would be probably my angle. What would yours be? Oh, I got one more. I got one more. Controllers.
Like refurbishing controllers like PlayStation 1 controllers or Xbox controllers. Like just making them, I don't know, making them into like some sort of object that you can have in the house. Maybe it's just the faceplate of the controller. I don't know. Something with that, you know?
Like refurbishing controllers like PlayStation 1 controllers or Xbox controllers. Like just making them, I don't know, making them into like some sort of object that you can have in the house. Maybe it's just the faceplate of the controller. I don't know. Something with that, you know?
or a lot of people's answers lined up with that basically the best stuff, the best movies, the best everything happens, happened sometimes between sometime between when people are like 10 years old and 20 years old. So nostalgia peaks somewhere in between 10 and 20. I think they did they like bring it down to 14.5.
or a lot of people's answers lined up with that basically the best stuff, the best movies, the best everything happens, happened sometimes between sometime between when people are like 10 years old and 20 years old. So nostalgia peaks somewhere in between 10 and 20. I think they did they like bring it down to 14.5.
Wow.
Wow.
So you would also sort of do a content-first approach? Yes. Content-first and then just see what sort of things... I think also even something as basic, if you go to the Kojima website, Hideo Kojima has his own company now. He's the guy who made Metal Gear Solid. And I actually buy the shit on that website. I have his hat from the Death Stranding video game.
So you would also sort of do a content-first approach? Yes. Content-first and then just see what sort of things... I think also even something as basic, if you go to the Kojima website, Hideo Kojima has his own company now. He's the guy who made Metal Gear Solid. And I actually buy the shit on that website. I have his hat from the Death Stranding video game.
I buy little keychains, all that kind of stuff. But you know what I think would work best? I love the high-end idea, the high-end product idea. I would just advertise other people's high-end nostalgic products.
I buy little keychains, all that kind of stuff. But you know what I think would work best? I love the high-end idea, the high-end product idea. I would just advertise other people's high-end nostalgic products.
on my super long form three hour episode per week conversation between me and you talking about reminiscing about our gaming time during like the you know late 90s and early 2000s honestly yeah yeah and you know the name of the show would be called the good old days the good old
on my super long form three hour episode per week conversation between me and you talking about reminiscing about our gaming time during like the you know late 90s and early 2000s honestly yeah yeah and you know the name of the show would be called the good old days the good old
I remember the good old days. I remember it. There's actually a podcast that if you guys want to check out an example of like, it's not exactly what we're talking about, but there's an element of it because it's more about the industry. It's called Game Boys to Men by Jeff Gerstmann. I don't know if you can get it for free. I pay for access to it.
I remember the good old days. I remember it. There's actually a podcast that if you guys want to check out an example of like, it's not exactly what we're talking about, but there's an element of it because it's more about the industry. It's called Game Boys to Men by Jeff Gerstmann. I don't know if you can get it for free. I pay for access to it.
And it's like this guy and his friend reminiscing about the games industry in the 90s. But I think there's a Game Boys to Men for millennials talking about Halo, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid. Guys, if you're listening to Greg's podcast right now, let me see if this does something to you. Da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da. You've lost your entire audience.
And it's like this guy and his friend reminiscing about the games industry in the 90s. But I think there's a Game Boys to Men for millennials talking about Halo, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid. Guys, if you're listening to Greg's podcast right now, let me see if this does something to you. Da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da. You've lost your entire audience.
You don't know... If you're listening to this and you heard what I just did, put it in the comments. We got to tell Greg what he's listening to.
You don't know... If you're listening to this and you heard what I just did, put it in the comments. We got to tell Greg what he's listening to.
You don't know that one?
You don't know that one?
Okay, let's see if you know this Nintendo one.
Okay, let's see if you know this Nintendo one.
So like basically somewhere between the age of 14 and 15 is where like your nostalgia absolutely peaked. What do you think about that one, Greg? Yeah.
So like basically somewhere between the age of 14 and 15 is where like your nostalgia absolutely peaked. What do you think about that one, Greg? Yeah.
Dude, this is fucking so fucking cool.
Dude, this is fucking so fucking cool.
Dude, you know what's so weird? Remember earlier, I haven't seen this before, but remember earlier when I said I would take the faceplate off the controller? And I didn't explain what I would, I was imagining putting it on some type of frame. But this is way cool. I wasn't thinking about this exploded view.
Dude, you know what's so weird? Remember earlier, I haven't seen this before, but remember earlier when I said I would take the faceplate off the controller? And I didn't explain what I would, I was imagining putting it on some type of frame. But this is way cool. I wasn't thinking about this exploded view.
But honestly, looking at the Xbox original Duke controller version of this gives me that feeling of nostalgia. Yeah. Oh my God, this is so cool. Do you see the SNES one?
But honestly, looking at the Xbox original Duke controller version of this gives me that feeling of nostalgia. Yeah. Oh my God, this is so cool. Do you see the SNES one?
The fucking Game Boy. I really, really love this. I love this. Do you know the people who did this?
The fucking Game Boy. I really, really love this. I love this. Do you know the people who did this?
This is so cool.
This is so cool.
Oh, I actually need to get this purple Game Boy color with Pikachu on it for myself.
Oh, I actually need to get this purple Game Boy color with Pikachu on it for myself.
Oh, no.
Oh, no.
I already spent a lot of money on a Game Boy nostalgic thing today. Totally. Yeah, but dude, this is... Okay, I mean, you obviously found the best example. This is amazing. That's exactly what I'm talking about. On the product level... So now that I've seen this... I would make a YouTube channel about Halo, about that era.
I already spent a lot of money on a Game Boy nostalgic thing today. Totally. Yeah, but dude, this is... Okay, I mean, you obviously found the best example. This is amazing. That's exactly what I'm talking about. On the product level... So now that I've seen this... I would make a YouTube channel about Halo, about that era.
So I think it's probably best to choose your... When you said niche down, if I was thinking about this and I was spending a bit more time on it, I would probably choose a platform first and that would be my first channel. So I would choose the original Xbox just because I have somehow shit tons of nostalgia for that, even though I had the N64, I had the Dreamcast and I had the Xbox.
So I think it's probably best to choose your... When you said niche down, if I was thinking about this and I was spending a bit more time on it, I would probably choose a platform first and that would be my first channel. So I would choose the original Xbox just because I have somehow shit tons of nostalgia for that, even though I had the N64, I had the Dreamcast and I had the Xbox.
I think the original Xbox was the most influential console to me because of Halo. And that would be the channel I would create. I would focus on the Halo games. I'd focus on a lot of the other... I mean, there wasn't so many other amazing games that came out outside of Halo that I really loved on the Xbox. But yeah, I would focus in on that. I talk about that a lot.
I think the original Xbox was the most influential console to me because of Halo. And that would be the channel I would create. I would focus on the Halo games. I'd focus on a lot of the other... I mean, there wasn't so many other amazing games that came out outside of Halo that I really loved on the Xbox. But yeah, I would focus in on that. I talk about that a lot.
And I would be an affiliate of this. I would be affiliate of Grid. What do they call it? Grid Studio.
And I would be an affiliate of this. I would be affiliate of Grid. What do they call it? Grid Studio.
Have you seen Displate? D-I-S-P-L-A-T-E?
Have you seen Displate? D-I-S-P-L-A-T-E?
So it's kind of similar. I mean, no, it's not similar to that, but it would be another one of the affiliates for our new podcast. And actually, interestingly enough, coincidentally, Halo is right up front when you land on their display.com landing page. I mean, I don't know how much money they're making, but a lot of influencers talk about them. It's kind of cool. Interesting.
So it's kind of similar. I mean, no, it's not similar to that, but it would be another one of the affiliates for our new podcast. And actually, interestingly enough, coincidentally, Halo is right up front when you land on their display.com landing page. I mean, I don't know how much money they're making, but a lot of influencers talk about them. It's kind of cool. Interesting.
Man, this is like... I want to shut down my business and just work on this now.
Man, this is like... I want to shut down my business and just work on this now.
I had it.
I had it.
Yeah, but the hosts aren't supposed to do it. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, but the hosts aren't supposed to do it. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, but honestly, dude, listen, we're not going to do it because we don't have time because you're running a lot of businesses. I'm running one. I'm going to give someone the exact idea. This will make minimum $1 million per year. If you liked that era of video games and if you have a friend to talk about it,
Yeah, but honestly, dude, listen, we're not going to do it because we don't have time because you're running a lot of businesses. I'm running one. I'm going to give someone the exact idea. This will make minimum $1 million per year. If you liked that era of video games and if you have a friend to talk about it,
Or even if you don't, so if you don't use Jeff Gerstmann as an influence, so go to YouTube, search for Jeff Gerstmann. He does a one-man show every week. It's three hours long. and you talk about nostalgic, but not, the thing is, people, when they talk about nostalgic games, they go too far back. They're talking about like the original SNES. I'm talking about nostalgic for the millennials.
Or even if you don't, so if you don't use Jeff Gerstmann as an influence, so go to YouTube, search for Jeff Gerstmann. He does a one-man show every week. It's three hours long. and you talk about nostalgic, but not, the thing is, people, when they talk about nostalgic games, they go too far back. They're talking about like the original SNES. I'm talking about nostalgic for the millennials.
I honestly, I don't know if that exists yet. There's low, retro is always SNES. It's always, you know, original Sega Mega Drive. I'm talking about retro for us is Halo. It's Metal Gear Solid. It's Silent Hill 2. It's Resident Evil. Resident Evil. And it's Syphon Filter, all of this shit.
I honestly, I don't know if that exists yet. There's low, retro is always SNES. It's always, you know, original Sega Mega Drive. I'm talking about retro for us is Halo. It's Metal Gear Solid. It's Silent Hill 2. It's Resident Evil. Resident Evil. And it's Syphon Filter, all of this shit.
So if you can become the content creator for the new millennial retro, you're going to make yourself a millionaire. And you're not trying to make content that's super educational. It's comfort noise. You're making comforting episodes that last three hours long. You're just chatting about shit. Listen to Jeff Gerstmann. He's a perfect example of it. It's just three hours of chatting.
So if you can become the content creator for the new millennial retro, you're going to make yourself a millionaire. And you're not trying to make content that's super educational. It's comfort noise. You're making comforting episodes that last three hours long. You're just chatting about shit. Listen to Jeff Gerstmann. He's a perfect example of it. It's just three hours of chatting.
And he opens energy drinks and talks about them. There's just something deeply satisfying about listening to his podcast. And I think this needs to exist for the millennial retro, whatever the fuck that's called.
And he opens energy drinks and talks about them. There's just something deeply satisfying about listening to his podcast. And I think this needs to exist for the millennial retro, whatever the fuck that's called.
They're some of the best memories of my entire life. And if I'm thinking, okay, so that's a memory that I had that I really deeply loved. But what could be something you could do? Okay, it's a comforting memory. Maybe I could start a Twitch channel where I just run LAN parties with eight other people in a physical space. And you're not trying to make content that's like super educational.
They're some of the best memories of my entire life. And if I'm thinking, okay, so that's a memory that I had that I really deeply loved. But what could be something you could do? Okay, it's a comforting memory. Maybe I could start a Twitch channel where I just run LAN parties with eight other people in a physical space. And you're not trying to make content that's like super educational.
It's a whole media empire run by me. Even though I'm not going to do it.
It's a whole media empire run by me. Even though I'm not going to do it.
I know. I have so much, dude. I have so much stuff. I don't use it.
I know. I have so much, dude. I have so much stuff. I don't use it.
This thing is great, though. Look how cute this is.
This thing is great, though. Look how cute this is.
I love the colored buttons. Never going to use it, though. So yeah, that's it. That's all I came here to say. I appreciate you having the time.
I love the colored buttons. Never going to use it, though. So yeah, that's it. That's all I came here to say. I appreciate you having the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is personal. I don't know if this is the best episode to do. I mean, this episode's definitely the right... If you don't like this episode, you won't like the vibe. So yeah, you got to tell us if you like the vibe and if you recognize what I was humming as well earlier.
This is personal. I don't know if this is the best episode to do. I mean, this episode's definitely the right... If you don't like this episode, you won't like the vibe. So yeah, you got to tell us if you like the vibe and if you recognize what I was humming as well earlier.
See you, Greg. Bye. Bye.
See you, Greg. Bye. Bye.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, it could be a little bit of both, but it's probably more of the nostalgia element of it, I guess.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, it could be a little bit of both, but it's probably more of the nostalgia element of it, I guess.
Although it is pretty good.
Although it is pretty good.
Yeah. So I think I have an idea of how to land this, although it might not work. So the reason this came back to my mind earlier and the reason why I messaged you is because today I bought a very cool thing because it launched today and it's something called a Mod Retro. which is Palmer Luckey's new physical product. Palmer Luckey is the guy who invented the Oculus Rift.
Yeah. So I think I have an idea of how to land this, although it might not work. So the reason this came back to my mind earlier and the reason why I messaged you is because today I bought a very cool thing because it launched today and it's something called a Mod Retro. which is Palmer Luckey's new physical product. Palmer Luckey is the guy who invented the Oculus Rift.
And he also runs Endural, which is like a defense contractor right now. And he's also really into video games. He used to be like a Game Boy modder. And he created this mod retro, which is like a ridiculously detailed and loving recreation of the Game Boy Color. I guess it's the Game Boy Color. I just bought the orange one if you're wondering which color I went for.
And he also runs Endural, which is like a defense contractor right now. And he's also really into video games. He used to be like a Game Boy modder. And he created this mod retro, which is like a ridiculously detailed and loving recreation of the Game Boy Color. I guess it's the Game Boy Color. I just bought the orange one if you're wondering which color I went for.
And I looked at this page and I was immediately like, I need to get this. This is something I have to get. Now, I had a Game Boy Color. I think I was, I don't know actually exactly what age I was. But when I saw this and I knew I had to buy it, I started thinking back to this study. And I was like, I actually have a weird thing about buying nostalgic things in general.
And I looked at this page and I was immediately like, I need to get this. This is something I have to get. Now, I had a Game Boy Color. I think I was, I don't know actually exactly what age I was. But when I saw this and I knew I had to buy it, I started thinking back to this study. And I was like, I actually have a weird thing about buying nostalgic things in general.
There are things where when I see a YouTube video of it or when I see like a, for example, I just got a Game Boy DS because I remembered having it as a teenager and I was excited about it. And it's not really that I end up playing these things or even using them, but just having them gives me sort of like a comforting feeling. I can't really exactly describe it.
There are things where when I see a YouTube video of it or when I see like a, for example, I just got a Game Boy DS because I remembered having it as a teenager and I was excited about it. And it's not really that I end up playing these things or even using them, but just having them gives me sort of like a comforting feeling. I can't really exactly describe it.
And I started to look around and realize that so many of the things that I buy and so many of the things that I do, I'm looking to the other side of my apartment here and I can see a lot of Radiohead vinyls and they're all of the albums that I was listening to on repeat when I was 15.
And I started to look around and realize that so many of the things that I buy and so many of the things that I do, I'm looking to the other side of my apartment here and I can see a lot of Radiohead vinyls and they're all of the albums that I was listening to on repeat when I was 15.
um i was listening to kid a like on repeat over and over and over um but also like the teenage engineering products that i love and i obsess about and this is also a teenage engineering object it's just like hyper nostalgic hyper nostalgic designs um and i was thinking right okay startup ideas we're always looking for ideas we're always looking for new angles
um i was listening to kid a like on repeat over and over and over um but also like the teenage engineering products that i love and i obsess about and this is also a teenage engineering object it's just like hyper nostalgic hyper nostalgic designs um and i was thinking right okay startup ideas we're always looking for ideas we're always looking for new angles
What if you look at people like, okay, we're millennials. We look back to the things that were popular and exciting when we were 14.5. Hey, everyone.
What if you look at people like, okay, we're millennials. We look back to the things that were popular and exciting when we were 14.5. Hey, everyone.
It's comfort noise. You're making comforting episodes that last three hours long. You're just chatting about shit. So if you can become the content creator for the new millennial retro, you're going to make yourself a millionaire.
It's comfort noise. You're making comforting episodes that last three hours long. You're just chatting about shit. So if you can become the content creator for the new millennial retro, you're going to make yourself a millionaire.
And you try to milk the nostalgia out of those things to create new products. And I'll give you an example of like a business that I think you could make relatively good money out of. And I want to go like hyper over the top specific here. One business could literally be looking at something. I was obsessed with the video game Halo back when I was like, I don't know, like 13, 12, 13, 14 years.
And you try to milk the nostalgia out of those things to create new products. And I'll give you an example of like a business that I think you could make relatively good money out of. And I want to go like hyper over the top specific here. One business could literally be looking at something. I was obsessed with the video game Halo back when I was like, I don't know, like 13, 12, 13, 14 years.
And I used to do LAN parties a lot back then. This is where, for any millennials listening, you'll know what this is. You literally would like connect your Xboxes with a cable. We would all sit around in my house in Ireland and destroy the place. But it was like, they're some of the best memories of my entire life.
And I used to do LAN parties a lot back then. This is where, for any millennials listening, you'll know what this is. You literally would like connect your Xboxes with a cable. We would all sit around in my house in Ireland and destroy the place. But it was like, they're some of the best memories of my entire life.
And if I'm thinking, OK, so that's a memory that I had that I really deeply loved, but I don't see anyone massively taking advantage of, you know, exploiting that memory. But what could be something you could do? OK, it's a comforting memory. Maybe I could start a Twitch channel where I just run, you know, once a week or even, you know, once every day if you want to go hardcore.
And if I'm thinking, OK, so that's a memory that I had that I really deeply loved, but I don't see anyone massively taking advantage of, you know, exploiting that memory. But what could be something you could do? OK, it's a comforting memory. Maybe I could start a Twitch channel where I just run, you know, once a week or even, you know, once every day if you want to go hardcore.
I run LAN parties with like, you know, eight other people in a physical space, Halo, maybe Halo 2 as well to add in the, you know, dual wielding for any of the people who know you could hold two guns at the same time. It's pretty cool.
I run LAN parties with like, you know, eight other people in a physical space, Halo, maybe Halo 2 as well to add in the, you know, dual wielding for any of the people who know you could hold two guns at the same time. It's pretty cool.
And honestly, just I honestly think just streaming something like this and then turning that into other types of content, maybe a weekly podcast talking about Halo and Halo 2. I don't know how much money you could make out of it. But if you look at something like the kind of funny games cast, which is a daily gaming podcast, more focused on the news side of things.
And honestly, just I honestly think just streaming something like this and then turning that into other types of content, maybe a weekly podcast talking about Halo and Halo 2. I don't know how much money you could make out of it. But if you look at something like the kind of funny games cast, which is a daily gaming podcast, more focused on the news side of things.
I think you could make a fair amount of money doing advertising in a piece of media like that, at least for a while. And then you add in the next thing. Another thing I think you could do, which would be pretty fun, is you could create... And I was listening to My First Million today, and they were talking about these speciality print magazines that
I think you could make a fair amount of money doing advertising in a piece of media like that, at least for a while. And then you add in the next thing. Another thing I think you could do, which would be pretty fun, is you could create... And I was listening to My First Million today, and they were talking about these speciality print magazines that
And I was thinking like, I was one of the very few people who had a Dreamcast video game console. And there was like four of us in the world. But you could definitely create something really high end for us four people. Maybe like a ridiculously nice coffee table book for all of the nostalgic video games and all of the elements of the Dreamcast that would just get someone like me drooling.
And I was thinking like, I was one of the very few people who had a Dreamcast video game console. And there was like four of us in the world. But you could definitely create something really high end for us four people. Maybe like a ridiculously nice coffee table book for all of the nostalgic video games and all of the elements of the Dreamcast that would just get someone like me drooling.
um and yeah i don't know man there's just something to this idea of looking at what was hot what was exciting what made you feel super cozy and it is a comfort thing it's not about making like an amazing new creative thing it's like how do you bring back that sense of comfort uh to the millennials who just crave that sense of like oh man that was such a that was such a cool thing that was such an amazing time you know what i mean am i getting this point across at all
um and yeah i don't know man there's just something to this idea of looking at what was hot what was exciting what made you feel super cozy and it is a comfort thing it's not about making like an amazing new creative thing it's like how do you bring back that sense of comfort uh to the millennials who just crave that sense of like oh man that was such a that was such a cool thing that was such an amazing time you know what i mean am i getting this point across at all
Wait, what kind of console boy were you when you were like 14, 15?
Wait, what kind of console boy were you when you were like 14, 15?
Oh, the Cyber Games.
Oh, the Cyber Games.
It's funny because I was thinking, okay, first I was thinking, yeah, but that's just a fucking creepy internet cafe. But that's the thing. Internet cafes are now really creepy and weird because like who goes into them? You know, I don't exactly know. Creepy people.
It's funny because I was thinking, okay, first I was thinking, yeah, but that's just a fucking creepy internet cafe. But that's the thing. Internet cafes are now really creepy and weird because like who goes into them? You know, I don't exactly know. Creepy people.
creepy people but um if you were to have a place for millennia like professional millennials to go where they could do multiplayer games that basically also the other thing is like once you turn like 20 you kind of stop gaming in the way you used to when you were in a t you're a And also you cannot compete against people playing Counter-Strike now. Like I'm 36.
creepy people but um if you were to have a place for millennia like professional millennials to go where they could do multiplayer games that basically also the other thing is like once you turn like 20 you kind of stop gaming in the way you used to when you were in a t you're a And also you cannot compete against people playing Counter-Strike now. Like I'm 36.
If I try to play any online multiplayer game, including the new Halo Infinite, I can last like three seconds. But if I could go to a place, I honestly, I'm always thinking about like, what are some alternative ideas to bars where you go drinking? And you know what, dude? Fuck. I also, and I've been talking to my girlfriend about this a lot. I hate going to dinner parties.
If I try to play any online multiplayer game, including the new Halo Infinite, I can last like three seconds. But if I could go to a place, I honestly, I'm always thinking about like, what are some alternative ideas to bars where you go drinking? And you know what, dude? Fuck. I also, and I've been talking to my girlfriend about this a lot. I hate going to dinner parties.
I hate going to bars and just sitting around in a circle and talking to people. It's so intense. And what I used to do when I was a teenager is we would play games together. We wouldn't sit all facing each other. We had something to do while we were kind of chatting and shooting the shit.
I hate going to bars and just sitting around in a circle and talking to people. It's so intense. And what I used to do when I was a teenager is we would play games together. We wouldn't sit all facing each other. We had something to do while we were kind of chatting and shooting the shit.
And I think one of the things that I really miss and I'm trying to bring it back into my like social life is just doing stuff when you're hanging out with your friends instead of just sitting around drinking, smoking, whatever it is. I feel like having a central activity. And if we could, if we could have a Soho house with LAN party combo, dude, I would be so in, I would be so in.
And I think one of the things that I really miss and I'm trying to bring it back into my like social life is just doing stuff when you're hanging out with your friends instead of just sitting around drinking, smoking, whatever it is. I feel like having a central activity. And if we could, if we could have a Soho house with LAN party combo, dude, I would be so in, I would be so in.
That's me. That's me.
That's me. That's me.
And it's kind of, if you think about it, a lot of the most famous entrepreneurs like, okay, Palmer Luckey, also Elon, also just a lot of people who are in startups are kind of nerds. Maybe that's also a great way to just meet other very interesting entrepreneurs. In a way, again, I cannot stress enough how much I don't like sitting at a table and facing people and having to interact with them.
And it's kind of, if you think about it, a lot of the most famous entrepreneurs like, okay, Palmer Luckey, also Elon, also just a lot of people who are in startups are kind of nerds. Maybe that's also a great way to just meet other very interesting entrepreneurs. In a way, again, I cannot stress enough how much I don't like sitting at a table and facing people and having to interact with them.
The only way I can do that and find it interesting is when we're drinking. When you're out at a bar and you're all sitting around a table, it's just kind of intense if you're stuck next to someone and you kind of have to talk or else you're going to be weird. But if you have something to do, I mean, I'm a nerd. I find it awkward, I think, to just sit directly across from someone and talk to them.
The only way I can do that and find it interesting is when we're drinking. When you're out at a bar and you're all sitting around a table, it's just kind of intense if you're stuck next to someone and you kind of have to talk or else you're going to be weird. But if you have something to do, I mean, I'm a nerd. I find it awkward, I think, to just sit directly across from someone and talk to them.
Speaking into a metal rectangle.
Speaking into a metal rectangle.
But if you have something to do, I think you can have some pretty interesting conversations. Halo, GoldenEye, all that kind of shit. There's something to it. I know that people have tried to open arcade bars, but I'm not talking about arcades. That's not the vibe. I'm talking about Halo. Yeah.
But if you have something to do, I think you can have some pretty interesting conversations. Halo, GoldenEye, all that kind of shit. There's something to it. I know that people have tried to open arcade bars, but I'm not talking about arcades. That's not the vibe. I'm talking about Halo. Yeah.
I'm talking about also standing sometimes.
I'm talking about also standing sometimes.
What is the thing that you find the most difficult and painful about entrepreneurship?
What is the thing that you find the most difficult and painful about entrepreneurship?
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
I'm I'm I'm I'm going to just continue drinking mouth. Yeah. Until further notice. Okay, wait, I just want to make sure I got... So you basically just don't ever get to the point where you feel overwhelmed or stressed. You don't go too close to the sun.
I'm I'm I'm I'm going to just continue drinking mouth. Yeah. Until further notice. Okay, wait, I just want to make sure I got... So you basically just don't ever get to the point where you feel overwhelmed or stressed. You don't go too close to the sun.
Great, dude.
Great, dude.
All right, dude.
All right, dude.
Fucking Superman over there. So the unfortunate answer to this question is you are as chilled as you seem. Unfortunately. Would your employees say that you are a chilled person to work with?
Fucking Superman over there. So the unfortunate answer to this question is you are as chilled as you seem. Unfortunately. Would your employees say that you are a chilled person to work with?
So, ah, do people say that about, like, I know that people say about me that I'm very direct, but also like, I don't talk about the positive things. I'm just talking about the night. I'm like a very much a firefighter. Um, I jump in and I'm like, this is broken. This is broken. This is broken. We need to fix this, this, this, this, this let's do this, this, this, this, this goodbye.
So, ah, do people say that about, like, I know that people say about me that I'm very direct, but also like, I don't talk about the positive things. I'm just talking about the night. I'm like a very much a firefighter. Um, I jump in and I'm like, this is broken. This is broken. This is broken. We need to fix this, this, this, this, this let's do this, this, this, this, this goodbye.
Um, and that obviously rubs people the wrong way. And I've heard obviously negative things coming out of that. Uh, like no one, no one who works with me would say, oh, Jonathan's so chilled. It wouldn't be what they would, uh, talk about me publicly.
Um, and that obviously rubs people the wrong way. And I've heard obviously negative things coming out of that. Uh, like no one, no one who works with me would say, oh, Jonathan's so chilled. It wouldn't be what they would, uh, talk about me publicly.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
All right, dude.
All right, dude.
Just topless, but like not in shape.
Just topless, but like not in shape.
Oh, that sounds dangerous.
Oh, that sounds dangerous.
twitter's api you know is is being shut off or whatever it is okay okay well you can tell i came to this uh session today uh in a stressed mode and i just wanted you to say you get stressed too but fuck you greg yeah yeah i mean i do get stressed but But you never get to the point where you're like, fuck this thing. Fuck LCA. I'm selling it. I'm done with all this.
twitter's api you know is is being shut off or whatever it is okay okay well you can tell i came to this uh session today uh in a stressed mode and i just wanted you to say you get stressed too but fuck you greg yeah yeah i mean i do get stressed but But you never get to the point where you're like, fuck this thing. Fuck LCA. I'm selling it. I'm done with all this.
I'm going to go live in a cabin and then I'll get, I'll think about what I want to do in about five years.
I'm going to go live in a cabin and then I'll get, I'll think about what I want to do in about five years.
I get to that point multiple times per year, not just with it. Like just it's part of the way my brain works. Sometimes I'm like, ah,
I get to that point multiple times per year, not just with it. Like just it's part of the way my brain works. Sometimes I'm like, ah,
Well, first of all, I'm very grateful for the revenue and profit it generates. And I love the business and it is a big part of my life. It's just sort of part of how my brain works, I would say. Sometimes I just hit a wall and get sick of something and I just want to move on to something new and interesting. I generally... Hold myself back from doing that and like stay on the core business.
Well, first of all, I'm very grateful for the revenue and profit it generates. And I love the business and it is a big part of my life. It's just sort of part of how my brain works, I would say. Sometimes I just hit a wall and get sick of something and I just want to move on to something new and interesting. I generally... Hold myself back from doing that and like stay on the core business.
Okay. All right. So before you hit record, I asked you if it was going to be okay to bring this topic to you and you just pressed record. So you don't know what it is yet. So that's how the podcast works. I like it. I've been pushing. So I've been running my company for 14 years coming up in September, AJ and Smart. And there's been many...
Okay. All right. So before you hit record, I asked you if it was going to be okay to bring this topic to you and you just pressed record. So you don't know what it is yet. So that's how the podcast works. I like it. I've been pushing. So I've been running my company for 14 years coming up in September, AJ and Smart. And there's been many...
And the problem is sometimes it's also worked out really well. Like I remember a couple of years ago, like seven or eight years ago, I was so sick of just focus or relying on client work to make money. And you maybe know the cash flow kind of variation when you're just doing client consulting work. And we started the education business with in-person training and then online training.
And the problem is sometimes it's also worked out really well. Like I remember a couple of years ago, like seven or eight years ago, I was so sick of just focus or relying on client work to make money. And you maybe know the cash flow kind of variation when you're just doing client consulting work. And we started the education business with in-person training and then online training.
And that moved our burn rate from three months to 15 months to 18 months. And I was like, holy shit, just being super annoyed at something sometimes generates interesting things. Yeah. I mean, what I often say is I'm not the right person to be the CEO because I am the person when I get annoyed with something, even if it's making money, I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore.
And that moved our burn rate from three months to 15 months to 18 months. And I was like, holy shit, just being super annoyed at something sometimes generates interesting things. Yeah. I mean, what I often say is I'm not the right person to be the CEO because I am the person when I get annoyed with something, even if it's making money, I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore.
I don't want us to do this anymore.
I don't want us to do this anymore.
Laura and I have talked about this multiple times and I think... Yeah, one part about it is the idea of looking for someone sounds annoying. And I've heard that process is very difficult and often doesn't work out. The other part is maybe I'm just not ready to let it go just yet. The other part is I did bring in a CEO for the consulting business and fucking shit hit the fan majorly.
Laura and I have talked about this multiple times and I think... Yeah, one part about it is the idea of looking for someone sounds annoying. And I've heard that process is very difficult and often doesn't work out. The other part is maybe I'm just not ready to let it go just yet. The other part is I did bring in a CEO for the consulting business and fucking shit hit the fan majorly.
Can you assess whether we should have a new CEO? Can we do an assessment? You own so many companies.
Can you assess whether we should have a new CEO? Can we do an assessment? You own so many companies.
Four times maybe per year.
Four times maybe per year.
I'm not against it. I think, you know, we're, we're doing sort of a big relaunch in September. I talked, I talked to you a little bit about it off the podcast. And I think that's the point where I like, I basically have the vision for the next 12 months, which I'm very excited about and very happy about and very proud of. Um,
I'm not against it. I think, you know, we're, we're doing sort of a big relaunch in September. I talked, I talked to you a little bit about it off the podcast. And I think that's the point where I like, I basically have the vision for the next 12 months, which I'm very excited about and very happy about and very proud of. Um,
And I feel like once that's in place, that's the next 10 years worth of stuff for the company to do. And I think I'd prefer, I prefer for in that decade to be more in the role of the person who is bringing product ideas and bringing the, maybe be like being the, the sounding board for someone else who's running it versus being the person running it and making the decisions. Yeah.
And I feel like once that's in place, that's the next 10 years worth of stuff for the company to do. And I think I'd prefer, I prefer for in that decade to be more in the role of the person who is bringing product ideas and bringing the, maybe be like being the, the sounding board for someone else who's running it versus being the person running it and making the decisions. Yeah.
It's a, it's a constant conversation, dude. This is, I have no idea if any of this is interesting for your audience. I'm just telling you, I just answered your question. Sorry. I mean, you're like, you're like, the audience is here to learn how to start a business.
It's a, it's a constant conversation, dude. This is, I have no idea if any of this is interesting for your audience. I'm just telling you, I just answered your question. Sorry. I mean, you're like, you're like, the audience is here to learn how to start a business.
And we're like, so when you're 15 years into it and it's already making millions, here's the small problems that you're going to, you know, I think, uh, if I were you, I would also become a hold co-entrepreneur. Yeah, I have to talk. I don't even really know what that is.
And we're like, so when you're 15 years into it and it's already making millions, here's the small problems that you're going to, you know, I think, uh, if I were you, I would also become a hold co-entrepreneur. Yeah, I have to talk. I don't even really know what that is.
basically the topic I want to talk about is kind of like burnout and keeping going as a self-employed kind of solopreneur entrepreneur. Like, I guess my first question is, do you ever feel just like, fuck, like I just have so much going on. There's just too much. I just want to get rid of it all and go sell it and live in a cabin in the woods in Canada.
basically the topic I want to talk about is kind of like burnout and keeping going as a self-employed kind of solopreneur entrepreneur. Like, I guess my first question is, do you ever feel just like, fuck, like I just have so much going on. There's just too much. I just want to get rid of it all and go sell it and live in a cabin in the woods in Canada.
Like, so I would basically have a holding company and then that would own AJ and smart and that would also own other companies and I would be on like the board of these companies.
Like, so I would basically have a holding company and then that would own AJ and smart and that would also own other companies and I would be on like the board of these companies.
You know what? You know what I don't like about that for me?
You know what? You know what I don't like about that for me?
I really optimize for peace. I like peace and calm and quiet and not a lot of stuff going on. I don't even like traveling because it kind of breaks me out of my routine and I love my routine. I had a holding company which I shut down in December and I was doing investments and I was looking into this concept.
I really optimize for peace. I like peace and calm and quiet and not a lot of stuff going on. I don't even like traveling because it kind of breaks me out of my routine and I love my routine. I had a holding company which I shut down in December and I was doing investments and I was looking into this concept.
And I think the way my brain works, that would feel... I'd love to help other companies with their products and their strategy with no paperwork at all. And I heard Jason Fried saying this recently. If they make shit tons of money and they feel like reimbursing me for the work I did, great. But I don't know if I actually want to have...
And I think the way my brain works, that would feel... I'd love to help other companies with their products and their strategy with no paperwork at all. And I heard Jason Fried saying this recently. If they make shit tons of money and they feel like reimbursing me for the work I did, great. But I don't know if I actually want to have...
I don't know if I want to do the paperwork for the, and I know I wouldn't personally be doing the paperwork. I wasn't personally doing the paperwork for my holding company and my company. It's just that world of adding.
I don't know if I want to do the paperwork for the, and I know I wouldn't personally be doing the paperwork. I wasn't personally doing the paperwork for my holding company and my company. It's just that world of adding.
Well, the holding company I had, which I started, it's just a vehicle for owning other things.
Well, the holding company I had, which I started, it's just a vehicle for owning other things.
But there's lots of legal and paperwork behind that. It's a whole other company.
But there's lots of legal and paperwork behind that. It's a whole other company.
I hate it. No, I hope some people in the comments understand me here. But I feel so much better when I'm working on one thing like doing like it's... I like simplicity and peace. And I would always choose that over complexity, even if it means way more money.
I hate it. No, I hope some people in the comments understand me here. But I feel so much better when I'm working on one thing like doing like it's... I like simplicity and peace. And I would always choose that over complexity, even if it means way more money.
I don't sign every deal. Like $450,000 deals will come in, which I won't even see. It's more that I feel like I'm going to come across like a complete idiot on this call because this is the truth. Because my entrepreneur friends also think I'm stupid when it comes to this stuff. It is, there's more noise when I have holding company plus AJ and smart, plus a few other things going on.
I don't sign every deal. Like $450,000 deals will come in, which I won't even see. It's more that I feel like I'm going to come across like a complete idiot on this call because this is the truth. Because my entrepreneur friends also think I'm stupid when it comes to this stuff. It is, there's more noise when I have holding company plus AJ and smart, plus a few other things going on.
There's more text messages, there's more emails, there's more slacks. And it doesn't matter how like automated and incentivized everyone is. Someone will always come to me and say, yeah, you know, I'd actually like to talk about my compensation for doing this thing in this company. And I, I simply don't enjoy the amount of new open threads it creates.
There's more text messages, there's more emails, there's more slacks. And it doesn't matter how like automated and incentivized everyone is. Someone will always come to me and say, yeah, you know, I'd actually like to talk about my compensation for doing this thing in this company. And I, I simply don't enjoy the amount of new open threads it creates.
Someone we know, you and I know, Sam, somewhat, Sam Ovens, he has a similar brain in a way that he hyper-focuses on one thing and leaves infinite money on the table because of wanting to avoid complexity. And so for me, I view that as more complex than I want to go to, even though everyone tells me I'm stupid about it and I don't disagree with them.
Someone we know, you and I know, Sam, somewhat, Sam Ovens, he has a similar brain in a way that he hyper-focuses on one thing and leaves infinite money on the table because of wanting to avoid complexity. And so for me, I view that as more complex than I want to go to, even though everyone tells me I'm stupid about it and I don't disagree with them.
So I agree it's stupid that I won't do the Holiko thing, but it just makes me feel stressed. It's the reason I also don't own a place. I have a very simple, easy setup life.
So I agree it's stupid that I won't do the Holiko thing, but it just makes me feel stressed. It's the reason I also don't own a place. I have a very simple, easy setup life.
So I guess my first question before I even ask, Any other questions? Because I want to learn some shit from you here. Do you get to those phases where you're just done with it all?
So I guess my first question before I even ask, Any other questions? Because I want to learn some shit from you here. Do you get to those phases where you're just done with it all?
abstract away meaning giving it to other people correct dude it always comes back yeah it always comes back it like as in for me it it still like let's say um like there's always things that come back to the legal owner yeah you know what i mean eventually yeah obviously but you know it doesn't it doesn't have to happen like very frequently
abstract away meaning giving it to other people correct dude it always comes back yeah it always comes back it like as in for me it it still like let's say um like there's always things that come back to the legal owner yeah you know what i mean eventually yeah obviously but you know it doesn't it doesn't have to happen like very frequently
Yeah, exactly. I am literally talking about that level. But it's like, all right, I don't know, again, what you want to put on the podcast. I have a kid in the picture that makes everything 10 times louder and 10 times more complicated. And she's not in the kindergarten. And now there's an outbreak of a vomiting bug. And now I have this thing over here. And now I have this thing over here.
Yeah, exactly. I am literally talking about that level. But it's like, all right, I don't know, again, what you want to put on the podcast. I have a kid in the picture that makes everything 10 times louder and 10 times more complicated. And she's not in the kindergarten. And now there's an outbreak of a vomiting bug. And now I have this thing over here. And now I have this thing over here.
It makes me feel... stressed and like loud, even when one thing per extra thing per quarter comes in. Whereas when I'm just running one business, it's still a lot of stuff, but dude, you know what? I think I need to talk to you about this. Cause maybe you're right.
It makes me feel... stressed and like loud, even when one thing per extra thing per quarter comes in. Whereas when I'm just running one business, it's still a lot of stuff, but dude, you know what? I think I need to talk to you about this. Cause maybe you're right.
Maybe I'm just doing way too many things that are completely unnecessary, but I have these phases where I like step out of everything and then I'm like, all right, I'm free. And And then I'm like, I'm going to go in. And then I'm like, I'm overwhelmed. And finding this middle ground between bored and overwhelmed, I find very tricky.
Maybe I'm just doing way too many things that are completely unnecessary, but I have these phases where I like step out of everything and then I'm like, all right, I'm free. And And then I'm like, I'm going to go in. And then I'm like, I'm overwhelmed. And finding this middle ground between bored and overwhelmed, I find very tricky.
Do you have a financial goal? I think that's one of the issues I have is that I don't know what I'm actually working toward. I don't have like, oh, this would be the number I would love to have or this is the thing I'm trying to do. With AJ and Smart, I'm like 10 million revenue, but it's like a random thing I pull out of my head. It's not a...
Do you have a financial goal? I think that's one of the issues I have is that I don't know what I'm actually working toward. I don't have like, oh, this would be the number I would love to have or this is the thing I'm trying to do. With AJ and Smart, I'm like 10 million revenue, but it's like a random thing I pull out of my head. It's not a...
Do you have, for yourself personally, do you have like a financial goal on a yearly basis or like when you want to retire, like when do you want to be financially free, something like that? Am I coming across as like really neurotic and weird on this episode?
Do you have, for yourself personally, do you have like a financial goal on a yearly basis or like when you want to retire, like when do you want to be financially free, something like that? Am I coming across as like really neurotic and weird on this episode?
I really appreciate that you do actually put out the podcast unedited like this.
I really appreciate that you do actually put out the podcast unedited like this.
I mean, in a way, it can be painful to watch because there are any awkward silences between you and I are still in there. I'd appreciate if your editors would remove some of that. But I think it's cool that you're willing to just put it out there and including the fact that you say these sayings and then forget them and just doesn't matter.
I mean, in a way, it can be painful to watch because there are any awkward silences between you and I are still in there. I'd appreciate if your editors would remove some of that. But I think it's cool that you're willing to just put it out there and including the fact that you say these sayings and then forget them and just doesn't matter.
So I think this could be the title and this could be the clip here coming up because I feel like What is the thing that you find the most difficult and painful about entrepreneurship? So my answer to that question is that I do have the feeling that there's a lot of weight on my shoulders to make the decisions that move us forward.
So I think this could be the title and this could be the clip here coming up because I feel like What is the thing that you find the most difficult and painful about entrepreneurship? So my answer to that question is that I do have the feeling that there's a lot of weight on my shoulders to make the decisions that move us forward.
the financial well-being of the people who are employed by me and like the direction and all of that. And then sometimes I'm like, man, I wonder, could I just make the same amount of money not doing all of that and not having all of this responsibility?
the financial well-being of the people who are employed by me and like the direction and all of that. And then sometimes I'm like, man, I wonder, could I just make the same amount of money not doing all of that and not having all of this responsibility?
So for me, definitely there's this feeling of wouldn't it be great if someone else would just tell me what to do sometimes instead of having to be basically creative all the time? what do you find painful or negative or what sometimes really gets you about being an entrepreneur? I'm trying to get fucking anything out of you, man.
So for me, definitely there's this feeling of wouldn't it be great if someone else would just tell me what to do sometimes instead of having to be basically creative all the time? what do you find painful or negative or what sometimes really gets you about being an entrepreneur? I'm trying to get fucking anything out of you, man.
And then I would say, because I guess we're just different types of entrepreneurs, I would say that it would be difficult for me to go all in on one of them and really like, I don't know, I feel like right now with AJ and Smart, We've the last couple of years, we've been sort of like, are we a training company or are we a consulting company?
And then I would say, because I guess we're just different types of entrepreneurs, I would say that it would be difficult for me to go all in on one of them and really like, I don't know, I feel like right now with AJ and Smart, We've the last couple of years, we've been sort of like, are we a training company or are we a consulting company?
And I think actually we're about to go in a direction that will be more akin to the way you're doing it today. where we have a bit more separation between the brands. And actually, maybe all of this bullshitting I've been talking about in this episode is going to be all undone when people see the relaunch because it's a bit more holdco-y. But yeah, I think for me, I struggle.
And I think actually we're about to go in a direction that will be more akin to the way you're doing it today. where we have a bit more separation between the brands. And actually, maybe all of this bullshitting I've been talking about in this episode is going to be all undone when people see the relaunch because it's a bit more holdco-y. But yeah, I think for me, I struggle.
First of all, uncertainty, absolutely. I think if you inherently struggle with uncertainty, I don't think you'll even go into entrepreneurship. Absolutely.
First of all, uncertainty, absolutely. I think if you inherently struggle with uncertainty, I don't think you'll even go into entrepreneurship. Absolutely.
Like, you know, your podcast talks a lot about ideas and I think ideas are great and all, but underneath... You can't come on the Startup Ideas podcast.
Like, you know, your podcast talks a lot about ideas and I think ideas are great and all, but underneath... You can't come on the Startup Ideas podcast.
No, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, I think you'll agree with the next thing I'm going to say. Ideas are really important, but the person who's actually executing the ideas and their mindset and their abilities is just as important, if not more. Like if you took any of Cody Schneider's ideas, his second name is Schneider, right?
No, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, I think you'll agree with the next thing I'm going to say. Ideas are really important, but the person who's actually executing the ideas and their mindset and their abilities is just as important, if not more. Like if you took any of Cody Schneider's ideas, his second name is Schneider, right?
Okay, if you took any of Cody's ideas, but you were really worried about uncertainty all the time and you were still like, I don't know, you just had this and you also got overwhelmed very easily and you had a lot of fear, you'd have a harder time than someone who is more entrepreneurially inclined. You'd struggle with it more. And so I think ideas are, execution is just extremely important.
Okay, if you took any of Cody's ideas, but you were really worried about uncertainty all the time and you were still like, I don't know, you just had this and you also got overwhelmed very easily and you had a lot of fear, you'd have a harder time than someone who is more entrepreneurially inclined. You'd struggle with it more. And so I think ideas are, execution is just extremely important.
Execution Ideas Podcast. Oh, no. Startup Execution Podcast.
Execution Ideas Podcast. Oh, no. Startup Execution Podcast.
Actually, yeah, then let me put my statement more clear. I do actually think execution is more important than the ideas themselves. And I've seen people try to execute the same ideas as I do, but they give up much quicker than me. And so therefore, it's as if it didn't matter in the first place.
Actually, yeah, then let me put my statement more clear. I do actually think execution is more important than the ideas themselves. And I've seen people try to execute the same ideas as I do, but they give up much quicker than me. And so therefore, it's as if it didn't matter in the first place.
Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you are right on that one. I guess when I say execution, I mean the actual ability to follow through and even hire that person. Yeah.
Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you are right on that one. I guess when I say execution, I mean the actual ability to follow through and even hire that person. Yeah.
All right. Just so you can say this is the name of the podcast. I told you the topic wasn't necessarily related.
All right. Just so you can say this is the name of the podcast. I told you the topic wasn't necessarily related.
similar similar yeah similar like really cult they become super overcrowded everyone loves them i also love them um yeah i don't know what you're going to say next but that part is similar what i'm going to say next is that i think that so this town that has the farmer's market
similar similar yeah similar like really cult they become super overcrowded everyone loves them i also love them um yeah i don't know what you're going to say next but that part is similar what i'm going to say next is that i think that so this town that has the farmer's market
So talk to me about this. You work every day, by the way, which I think is... who gives a shit? Like there's no rules about when you can work and when you can't work. And I think it's ridiculous that, yeah, everyone's trying to jam everything into the Monday to Friday. And actually that could be causing a lot of burnout because you're jamming it all in there.
So talk to me about this. You work every day, by the way, which I think is... who gives a shit? Like there's no rules about when you can work and when you can't work. And I think it's ridiculous that, yeah, everyone's trying to jam everything into the Monday to Friday. And actually that could be causing a lot of burnout because you're jamming it all in there.
I love it. And you could even like... Okay, so the idea would be you're running... Is it like a two-sided marketplace as well where you're also essentially bringing the customers by being also the advertiser for the event?
I love it. And you could even like... Okay, so the idea would be you're running... Is it like a two-sided marketplace as well where you're also essentially bringing the customers by being also the advertiser for the event?
Okay, so... That's really cool because what you could also do, and you know, if you want to get funding, you have to say the word AI. So you have to use AI to find the perfect towns where you can set this up, where you can say, find me. We use this amazing AI to find the towns which do not yet have farmers markets, but have all of the supply areas. And are surrounded by a lot of demand.
Okay, so... That's really cool because what you could also do, and you know, if you want to get funding, you have to say the word AI. So you have to use AI to find the perfect towns where you can set this up, where you can say, find me. We use this amazing AI to find the towns which do not yet have farmers markets, but have all of the supply areas. And are surrounded by a lot of demand.
And so we find these center points and we turn them into these third spaces where people from different towns can come together. And you could also then expand it to... I don't know if you guys... Flea markets in Berlin are also super popular. And they combine flea markets with farmer's markets. And it's like a whole thing. You could just expand out to anything where...
And so we find these center points and we turn them into these third spaces where people from different towns can come together. And you could also then expand it to... I don't know if you guys... Flea markets in Berlin are also super popular. And they combine flea markets with farmer's markets. And it's like a whole thing. You could just expand out to anything where...
Then you're like, now is my time where I take my break and now I'm back. So you said you work best in the morning. So the reason you work every day is just so you can work every morning instead of having to work full days, just Monday to Friday. Like how much do you tend to, Like what's your workday look like?
Then you're like, now is my time where I take my break and now I'm back. So you said you work best in the morning. So the reason you work every day is just so you can work every morning instead of having to work full days, just Monday to Friday. Like how much do you tend to, Like what's your workday look like?
It's like a big logistical thing as well because, well, that also gives it sort of like a moat because if you can get this working, it's really hard to compete with. There's a, I'm not going to reveal where I live, but there's a market near to where I live.
It's like a big logistical thing as well because, well, that also gives it sort of like a moat because if you can get this working, it's really hard to compete with. There's a, I'm not going to reveal where I live, but there's a market near to where I live.
And the company obviously who runs the market, you know, they set up the tables, they set everything up so that the different companies can just, like there's a place here, if you Google it, called Mark Talanoin. And you rent the space. They have the space. They've now expanded it out onto the streets. It's unbelievably popular.
And the company obviously who runs the market, you know, they set up the tables, they set everything up so that the different companies can just, like there's a place here, if you Google it, called Mark Talanoin. And you rent the space. They have the space. They've now expanded it out onto the streets. It's unbelievably popular.
And it's gone from being a farmer's market to now there being events on Thursday nights. And Saturday, there's this cheese event. And then there's a chocolate-focused event. That shit is expanding like crazy. And I never thought about it being an actual... I never thought about the idea that you could be the...
And it's gone from being a farmer's market to now there being events on Thursday nights. And Saturday, there's this cheese event. And then there's a chocolate-focused event. That shit is expanding like crazy. And I never thought about it being an actual... I never thought about the idea that you could be the...
middleman in between all of these places even then finding the location even like renovating the place being the person who brings all the tables you could really like corner that market in your area are you gonna do it probably not you got enough but you got your whole co you can just like you abstract it out abstract it out i'm i'm i'm really into uh
middleman in between all of these places even then finding the location even like renovating the place being the person who brings all the tables you could really like corner that market in your area are you gonna do it probably not you got enough but you got your whole co you can just like you abstract it out abstract it out i'm i'm i'm really into uh
How would you start something like that? Would you start by going to the suppliers? Would you start by looking for the space? Like what would be the early steps? If someone in your audience actually wants to give this a try, what would be like some of the, tomorrow this would be the first thing to do?
How would you start something like that? Would you start by going to the suppliers? Would you start by looking for the space? Like what would be the early steps? If someone in your audience actually wants to give this a try, what would be like some of the, tomorrow this would be the first thing to do?
Yeah. Yeah. I remember, I think I was in like Sweden recently and I was looking, there was like this timeout food court. I was like, what the, why timeout? Timeout what? I didn't get the connection with the magazine. And so for me, I just had no idea what that meant. It was like, I'm going to take a little break, take a little time out. Okay. So this... idea is super interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. I remember, I think I was in like Sweden recently and I was looking, there was like this timeout food court. I was like, what the, why timeout? Timeout what? I didn't get the connection with the magazine. And so for me, I just had no idea what that meant. It was like, I'm going to take a little break, take a little time out. Okay. So this... idea is super interesting.
I have the boring agency that can go along with it. So let's say the Holdco that creates this farmer's market will have another business, will own another business, which is like... The business that you can hire to help you basically invent and conceptualize and create the logistics around events like this.
I have the boring agency that can go along with it. So let's say the Holdco that creates this farmer's market will have another business, will own another business, which is like... The business that you can hire to help you basically invent and conceptualize and create the logistics around events like this.
I honestly think if you had... One of the most difficult things to do... I'm flying to Palo Alto in a couple of weeks to run a training event. And... Selling the event, and the tickets are like 10K each, was 100 times easier than arranging the event and organizing it and getting the catering sorted. And in the end, we spent approximately $30,000, probably more than $30,000 to get it all organized.
I honestly think if you had... One of the most difficult things to do... I'm flying to Palo Alto in a couple of weeks to run a training event. And... Selling the event, and the tickets are like 10K each, was 100 times easier than arranging the event and organizing it and getting the catering sorted. And in the end, we spent approximately $30,000, probably more than $30,000 to get it all organized.
And we couldn't find anyone to help us with this. We ended up almost doing every element of it ourselves, or at least we didn't find any influencer or brand or YouTube channel that talks about setting up events in a way that would make us reach out to them and contact them. And I was thinking just when you were talking there is we need the Greg Eisenberg or we need the, you know, specific info.
And we couldn't find anyone to help us with this. We ended up almost doing every element of it ourselves, or at least we didn't find any influencer or brand or YouTube channel that talks about setting up events in a way that would make us reach out to them and contact them. And I was thinking just when you were talking there is we need the Greg Eisenberg or we need the, you know, specific info.
We need me for in the facilitation world. But for event management, which is, first of all, seen as a job no one really wants to do. And it's like always in the top lists of most stressful jobs to do as well. but it is a thing that a lot of companies wanna do events, especially now post COVID, a lot of companies wanna go back to doing more in-person things.
We need me for in the facilitation world. But for event management, which is, first of all, seen as a job no one really wants to do. And it's like always in the top lists of most stressful jobs to do as well. but it is a thing that a lot of companies wanna do events, especially now post COVID, a lot of companies wanna go back to doing more in-person things.
And it is really difficult to find anyone to help with that, to help with the logistics. Literally the brief would have been, We're running an event in Palo Alto. It's four days long. There's this many people. Can you fucking help us figure this out? And we'll give you a 10K commission, whatever the commission is on the thing. And we couldn't find anybody. So we did it ourselves.
And it is really difficult to find anyone to help with that, to help with the logistics. Literally the brief would have been, We're running an event in Palo Alto. It's four days long. There's this many people. Can you fucking help us figure this out? And we'll give you a 10K commission, whatever the commission is on the thing. And we couldn't find anybody. So we did it ourselves.
So for this idea that you have, it would be amazing if you as the entrepreneur, if you were starting it, could call up event in person co and say, Hey Greg, like we're thinking about doing this thing in this town. Uh, I really do not want to be involved in the logistics of it for the first one, at least. Can you do like an event sprint for us and get it off the ground next time?
So for this idea that you have, it would be amazing if you as the entrepreneur, if you were starting it, could call up event in person co and say, Hey Greg, like we're thinking about doing this thing in this town. Uh, I really do not want to be involved in the logistics of it for the first one, at least. Can you do like an event sprint for us and get it off the ground next time?
How do you figure out what those three things are? Are you doing any sort of like, I don't know, task making exercises or prioritization things? Or is it just like you wake up and you're like, here's the fires or here's the interesting things to do? Or what does it look like?
How do you figure out what those three things are? Are you doing any sort of like, I don't know, task making exercises or prioritization things? Or is it just like you wake up and you're like, here's the fires or here's the interesting things to do? Or what does it look like?
We'll do it all ourselves because you'll have connected us with all the people, but how do we get this event off the ground? Can you do an event sprint for us? Like that type of company desperately needs to exist.
We'll do it all ourselves because you'll have connected us with all the people, but how do we get this event off the ground? Can you do an event sprint for us? Like that type of company desperately needs to exist.
Someone who is very good at organizing stuff and enjoys that and gets pleasure out of it needs to start an event management company that isn't a website with pictures of big speakers and PA systems on it. It's a video of a person showing you how to do it all yourself, Greg, content style, but for event management, honestly, I think would be a game changer.
Someone who is very good at organizing stuff and enjoys that and gets pleasure out of it needs to start an event management company that isn't a website with pictures of big speakers and PA systems on it. It's a video of a person showing you how to do it all yourself, Greg, content style, but for event management, honestly, I think would be a game changer.
I think you could start it in basically every city and these people will be booked out forever.
I think you could start it in basically every city and these people will be booked out forever.
So those are like these like brand activation things, right?
So those are like these like brand activation things, right?
Yeah, if you want to look at what I was looking at, go to Google or if your team wants to show this, you Google event management Palo Alto. Palo Alto, like one of the wealthiest places on the planet. And hopefully you see the opportunity I'm talking about. Oh, man. I don't want to shit on any of the companies. I just want to say we ended up having to do it ourselves.
Yeah, if you want to look at what I was looking at, go to Google or if your team wants to show this, you Google event management Palo Alto. Palo Alto, like one of the wealthiest places on the planet. And hopefully you see the opportunity I'm talking about. Oh, man. I don't want to shit on any of the companies. I just want to say we ended up having to do it ourselves.
I didn't, I really, I really, but also like this, you know, Laura organized our Palo Alto event, booked the location, booked the catering. She's our head of marketing. This is how difficult, and every day of her time is worth a lot of money. 100%. It's crazy.
I didn't, I really, I really, but also like this, you know, Laura organized our Palo Alto event, booked the location, booked the catering. She's our head of marketing. This is how difficult, and every day of her time is worth a lot of money. 100%. It's crazy.
Did I save myself at the end there after shitting all over the podcast and saying it's all about execution?
Did I save myself at the end there after shitting all over the podcast and saying it's all about execution?
We literally do and reply to every single one as well.
We literally do and reply to every single one as well.
Yes, please. And thank you so much, Greg, for having me on the podcast again. Thank you so much to Greg's audience also for the really kind comments. And your audience is really great. And like Greg said, we genuinely read every single one. Makes our day when you guys have something to say. Absolutely no criticism is accepted. No, just kidding.
Yes, please. And thank you so much, Greg, for having me on the podcast again. Thank you so much to Greg's audience also for the really kind comments. And your audience is really great. And like Greg said, we genuinely read every single one. Makes our day when you guys have something to say. Absolutely no criticism is accepted. No, just kidding.
By the way, it's a perfect example of my peace thing. I just don't use social media because I don't want to keep going into all the services and seeing what's going on.
By the way, it's a perfect example of my peace thing. I just don't use social media because I don't want to keep going into all the services and seeing what's going on.
I'm worried. I'm worried that, no, no, I'm using Twitter now. I'm using X because of you.
I'm worried. I'm worried that, no, no, I'm using Twitter now. I'm using X because of you.
And I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying, I only downloaded, I only went back to X after being on the episode with you a couple of weeks ago for the first time in seven years or something. So I'm actually having a lot of fun on there now.
And I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying, I only downloaded, I only went back to X after being on the episode with you a couple of weeks ago for the first time in seven years or something. So I'm actually having a lot of fun on there now.
Okay. I'm following your advice. I'm trying to follow your advice anyway.
Okay. I'm following your advice. I'm trying to follow your advice anyway.
Me building an audience. Bye, everyone. Bye.
Me building an audience. Bye, everyone. Bye.
So I'll tell you where my struggle comes from. So I agree, it's fun. I also don't have productivity systems. And honestly, most of the people I know who have really detailed productivity systems are generally entrepreneurs. They pretend they are going to be entrepreneurs, but all they do is just make systems, but they don't make any money at all.
So I'll tell you where my struggle comes from. So I agree, it's fun. I also don't have productivity systems. And honestly, most of the people I know who have really detailed productivity systems are generally entrepreneurs. They pretend they are going to be entrepreneurs, but all they do is just make systems, but they don't make any money at all.
I actually know someone who is, I don't want to, it could be too close. Let's say I know a person called Kevin, just because I have this book here, who obsesses about systems and reading all the books and reading all the entrepreneurship stuff and collect all these systems and everything.
I actually know someone who is, I don't want to, it could be too close. Let's say I know a person called Kevin, just because I have this book here, who obsesses about systems and reading all the books and reading all the entrepreneurship stuff and collect all these systems and everything.
literally has never made one dollar as an entrepreneur mainly works in corporates but talks about being an entrepreneur all the time and so i would generally agree with you productivity stuff is just like not for real business people here's the non-system system i'll give it to you the non-system hit me greg eisenberg's non-system system is this wake up relatively early What's early for you?
literally has never made one dollar as an entrepreneur mainly works in corporates but talks about being an entrepreneur all the time and so i would generally agree with you productivity stuff is just like not for real business people here's the non-system system i'll give it to you the non-system hit me greg eisenberg's non-system system is this wake up relatively early What's early for you?
Okay, let me ask for some context here. Feel free to cut any of this out. Not cutting any of this out. I'm going to ask questions as if you might cut stuff out, but I'm just going to ask freely, okay? Yes. Many times when I'm talking to entrepreneurs who are very relaxed and I'm confused about why they're so relaxed, I find out that they're already ludicrously rich. So I'll give you an example.
Okay, let me ask for some context here. Feel free to cut any of this out. Not cutting any of this out. I'm going to ask questions as if you might cut stuff out, but I'm just going to ask freely, okay? Yes. Many times when I'm talking to entrepreneurs who are very relaxed and I'm confused about why they're so relaxed, I find out that they're already ludicrously rich. So I'll give you an example.
I know an entrepreneur who talks a lot about know not pushing too hard and and like it's all easy and it's all fine and i found out that he got like an a 18 million dollar kind of inheritance uh a very long time ago and then i was like of course i wouldn't be burnt out if i had 18 million in my bank account so my question is
I know an entrepreneur who talks a lot about know not pushing too hard and and like it's all easy and it's all fine and i found out that he got like an a 18 million dollar kind of inheritance uh a very long time ago and then i was like of course i wouldn't be burnt out if i had 18 million in my bank account so my question is
Were you always this, well, first of all, do you have like crazy inheritance and you just don't give a shit about money and it's all good?
Were you always this, well, first of all, do you have like crazy inheritance and you just don't give a shit about money and it's all good?
You seem very chill, but you also seem to get a lot done.
You seem very chill, but you also seem to get a lot done.
Honestly, yeah, it's tricky because I'll tell you for me, one of the things that gets me or the times where I'm the least chill is usually when a part of the business is not working necessarily or very well. And I can tell that it needs like an overhaul in order to start working well again.
Honestly, yeah, it's tricky because I'll tell you for me, one of the things that gets me or the times where I'm the least chill is usually when a part of the business is not working necessarily or very well. And I can tell that it needs like an overhaul in order to start working well again.
For example, like last year, the consulting or like the corporate consulting and corporate training side of the business just needed a massive overhaul. And I could tell like basically stagnating revenue, stagnating profits. Actually, the profits were starting to slowly go down and I could just see
For example, like last year, the consulting or like the corporate consulting and corporate training side of the business just needed a massive overhaul. And I could tell like basically stagnating revenue, stagnating profits. Actually, the profits were starting to slowly go down and I could just see
Shit, like in a few months time, this is going to be hitting the break even point and then we're going to start losing cash flow. And... I see a project of that size and sometimes I'm just like, I'm just not in the mood to do that right now. Like I'm not in the mood to take it on.
Shit, like in a few months time, this is going to be hitting the break even point and then we're going to start losing cash flow. And... I see a project of that size and sometimes I'm just like, I'm just not in the mood to do that right now. Like I'm not in the mood to take it on.
And this could be related to the way I have not necessarily hired and staffed up in the way maybe you have like a TO at LCA who seems to just be able to take things and run with them. But Laura and I at AJ and Smart definitely have this feeling that if we, if something starts to stagnate, it's not possible to fix it without me personally jumping in or Laura personally jumping in.
And this could be related to the way I have not necessarily hired and staffed up in the way maybe you have like a TO at LCA who seems to just be able to take things and run with them. But Laura and I at AJ and Smart definitely have this feeling that if we, if something starts to stagnate, it's not possible to fix it without me personally jumping in or Laura personally jumping in.
Do you still get dragged into things like that? Or are you just totally, are you out of this sort of revenue, cash flow, day-to-day stuff?
Do you still get dragged into things like that? Or are you just totally, are you out of this sort of revenue, cash flow, day-to-day stuff?
I'm sipping here. I'm sipping over here. Sipping time, baby. I'm sipping some bouche. I don't know if it's pronounced bouche. Bouche.
I'm sipping here. I'm sipping over here. Sipping time, baby. I'm sipping some bouche. I don't know if it's pronounced bouche. Bouche.
Sure. And actually, just to be clear, and I know this is becoming a therapy session for me. Thanks, Greg. I don't work an abnormal amount of hours. It's more like the amount of hours I do. And sometimes it is three or four hours. They... they can be quite consequential for the business. They can be the ones that make the decision that makes us the money for the next six months.
Sure. And actually, just to be clear, and I know this is becoming a therapy session for me. Thanks, Greg. I don't work an abnormal amount of hours. It's more like the amount of hours I do. And sometimes it is three or four hours. They... they can be quite consequential for the business. They can be the ones that make the decision that makes us the money for the next six months.
And obviously, I have experimented with stepping out and being out of the business for quite some time. And then more stagnation sort of kicks in. So I guess at least today, I feel like I'm still... very much needed. And that, I guess that stress of knowing that if I just take my eye off the ball, something can fall apart.
And obviously, I have experimented with stepping out and being out of the business for quite some time. And then more stagnation sort of kicks in. So I guess at least today, I feel like I'm still... very much needed. And that, I guess that stress of knowing that if I just take my eye off the ball, something can fall apart.
Any person running a successful business will now say, well, your business is not robust enough. You're right. And that's what I'm trying to figure out. But yeah, like that's the stuff that kind of stresses me out. Doesn't mess with my sleep. It isn't all the time, but it does. There are like sometimes weeks where I'm like, oh man, now I want to sell the company.
Any person running a successful business will now say, well, your business is not robust enough. You're right. And that's what I'm trying to figure out. But yeah, like that's the stuff that kind of stresses me out. Doesn't mess with my sleep. It isn't all the time, but it does. There are like sometimes weeks where I'm like, oh man, now I want to sell the company.
Like whenever I'm annoyed with AJ and smart, I'm like, fuck this. I'm just taking the money out and I'm done. You know, that, that, that comes to my mind.
Like whenever I'm annoyed with AJ and smart, I'm like, fuck this. I'm just taking the money out and I'm done. You know, that, that, that comes to my mind.
It means mouth? Oh, no. I'm sipping on some mouth.
It means mouth? Oh, no. I'm sipping on some mouth.
Obviously we're, we're running a, this is a entrepreneur podcast. Like it's, it's a, we're not trying to help people figure out how to,
Obviously we're, we're running a, this is a entrepreneur podcast. Like it's, it's a, we're not trying to help people figure out how to,
do important life although we're yeah we're talking about fuck anyone saying their champagne problems they're coming to this podcast to listen to two relatively successful entrepreneurs talk about stuff fuck you i'm just i just think that someone's listening to this and being like burnout you know like i'm just trying to
do important life although we're yeah we're talking about fuck anyone saying their champagne problems they're coming to this podcast to listen to two relatively successful entrepreneurs talk about stuff fuck you i'm just i just think that someone's listening to this and being like burnout you know like i'm just trying to
Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, I only realize now that Zin is these pouches that they also sell in Sweden. So like easy access. But I heard they can be quite addictive. Yeah.
Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, I only realize now that Zin is these pouches that they also sell in Sweden. So like easy access. But I heard they can be quite addictive. Yeah.
What do you mean by chasing generational wealth is overrated and wealth is underrated?
What do you mean by chasing generational wealth is overrated and wealth is underrated?
Sip the egg juice. That's my next idea. Egg juice. But I was going to make a point related, like, when I come to this podcast, so obviously, I've been on a couple of episodes of this podcast, and I'm sort of like an anomaly in it, like, as in I'm regularly here, but...
Sip the egg juice. That's my next idea. Egg juice. But I was going to make a point related, like, when I come to this podcast, so obviously, I've been on a couple of episodes of this podcast, and I'm sort of like an anomaly in it, like, as in I'm regularly here, but...
When I look at the comments, I'm like, oh yeah, people don't realize that my brain is a bit broken and that I'm just kind of also a silly man. I'm a silly man. And when people come here for like hardcore back-to-back business ideas and I'm on here, like there was some guy in your comments last week who was like, I want to give you some constructive feedback, Greg.
When I look at the comments, I'm like, oh yeah, people don't realize that my brain is a bit broken and that I'm just kind of also a silly man. I'm a silly man. And when people come here for like hardcore back-to-back business ideas and I'm on here, like there was some guy in your comments last week who was like, I want to give you some constructive feedback, Greg.
Don't have this guy on your podcast anymore.
Don't have this guy on your podcast anymore.
And these are the books that had the biggest effect on me getting to my first million, running my business. So I thought a conversation around which books were actually influential, not just inspiring, but also had practical sort of outcomes and measurable outcomes. So I thought that that could be an episode. So it's like the books that made us our first million or some shit, all right? Um...
And these are the books that had the biggest effect on me getting to my first million, running my business. So I thought a conversation around which books were actually influential, not just inspiring, but also had practical sort of outcomes and measurable outcomes. So I thought that that could be an episode. So it's like the books that made us our first million or some shit, all right? Um...
What did you do? I actually didn't check the follow-up.
What did you do? I actually didn't check the follow-up.
Hell yeah. I would like to give you some constructive feedback, Greg. This guy sucks. Is that what he said? No, it was like, I'd like to give you some constructive feedback. Something like, I don't like listening to this guy and doesn't bring value and he just rambles. And I'm like, that's...
Hell yeah. I would like to give you some constructive feedback, Greg. This guy sucks. Is that what he said? No, it was like, I'd like to give you some constructive feedback. Something like, I don't like listening to this guy and doesn't bring value and he just rambles. And I'm like, that's...
Now he should give constructive feedback on how huge of an insight it is.
Now he should give constructive feedback on how huge of an insight it is.
I'm going to bed.
I'm going to bed.
Okay, look, you did this post right. I bookmarked it. Yeah, you did. I bookmarked the shit out of it. I see your team has to... I'll try to reduce the swearing because I know they have to beep it out. Okay, so let's... I'm going to... You did this post on Twitter. Your team can maybe bring it up on screen. It's 50 life hacks. I'm going to just...
Okay, look, you did this post right. I bookmarked it. Yeah, you did. I bookmarked the shit out of it. I see your team has to... I'll try to reduce the swearing because I know they have to beep it out. Okay, so let's... I'm going to... You did this post on Twitter. Your team can maybe bring it up on screen. It's 50 life hacks. I'm going to just...
go to a few of them and ask you to expand on it or to talk about them or just very heavily agree with them. Maybe I'll just choose the top 10 of your 50 life hacks.
go to a few of them and ask you to expand on it or to talk about them or just very heavily agree with them. Maybe I'll just choose the top 10 of your 50 life hacks.
Okay, I'm going to do that. First thing, and it's really the first one, use social media apps on desktop only so that you don't get sucked in. I mean, so fucking like do you basically then have no social media apps on your phone?
Okay, I'm going to do that. First thing, and it's really the first one, use social media apps on desktop only so that you don't get sucked in. I mean, so fucking like do you basically then have no social media apps on your phone?
I agree. Do you sometimes sneakily log into X on your Safari browser?
I agree. Do you sometimes sneakily log into X on your Safari browser?
Okay. You'll delete it. Yeah. I deleted social media on my phone years ago. But I'll occasionally get sucked into... You know, it's your fault that I'm back on X. I was off X for like four or five years before I did the first one of these podcasts. And then you were screenshotting what people were saying about it. And I was like, I'll just log in. And now I'm... It's so addictive. It's so good.
Okay. You'll delete it. Yeah. I deleted social media on my phone years ago. But I'll occasionally get sucked into... You know, it's your fault that I'm back on X. I was off X for like four or five years before I did the first one of these podcasts. And then you were screenshotting what people were saying about it. And I was like, I'll just log in. And now I'm... It's so addictive. It's so good.
But yeah, I also don't put these on my phone. And again, I try to use this brick, like this brick thing that I talked about a couple of episodes to block things. Okay. Use analogies. People remember them. Can you give me an example of what you're talking about there in an analogy format? Yeah.
But yeah, I also don't put these on my phone. And again, I try to use this brick, like this brick thing that I talked about a couple of episodes to block things. Okay. Use analogies. People remember them. Can you give me an example of what you're talking about there in an analogy format? Yeah.
The second idea I had was on your Twitter, and this is sort of in a similar vein. On your Twitter, you posted 50 life hacks for you today. No, 50 life hacks for you in today's stressful, competitive world. And you had 50 life hacks. I thought we could go through those, see where we get to. I think each of them is really interesting. I think that could be really useful.
The second idea I had was on your Twitter, and this is sort of in a similar vein. On your Twitter, you posted 50 life hacks for you today. No, 50 life hacks for you in today's stressful, competitive world. And you had 50 life hacks. I thought we could go through those, see where we get to. I think each of them is really interesting. I think that could be really useful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that book. You remember that book? I remember it and I love it. And I actually refer to it a lot in my training when I'm training people in facilitation.
I love that book. You remember that book? I remember it and I love it. And I actually refer to it a lot in my training when I'm training people in facilitation.
That you were covered in egg juice and the smell of it.
That you were covered in egg juice and the smell of it.
Absolutely. Especially if you're, I think one of the best analogy formats, because I remember, so Made to Stick is an amazing book. It also talks about this concept of the curse of knowledge, which is amazing. The idea is that once you know a topic, you now can't like, you can't act as if you don't know it anymore.
Absolutely. Especially if you're, I think one of the best analogy formats, because I remember, so Made to Stick is an amazing book. It also talks about this concept of the curse of knowledge, which is amazing. The idea is that once you know a topic, you now can't like, you can't act as if you don't know it anymore.
You can't imagine what it's like to be a person who doesn't know this thing anymore. And so you actually get worse at explaining something the more you know it. So when I'm trying to sell facilitation training, and I've been a facilitator and a designer for 14 years, I have to remember this curse of knowledge thing and bring myself right back to the basics.
You can't imagine what it's like to be a person who doesn't know this thing anymore. And so you actually get worse at explaining something the more you know it. So when I'm trying to sell facilitation training, and I've been a facilitator and a designer for 14 years, I have to remember this curse of knowledge thing and bring myself right back to the basics.
And analogies are an amazing way to bring things back to the basics. And there's this format that I saw Russell Brunson use to make things into...
And analogies are an amazing way to bring things back to the basics. And there's this format that I saw Russell Brunson use to make things into...
more of an analogy and it's like he uses the you know how or it's like yeah it's the the simple format he has is that it's kind of like or it's kind of like when so sometimes it's like you're you're thinking about okay how do i explain something like facilitation to people
more of an analogy and it's like he uses the you know how or it's like yeah it's the the simple format he has is that it's kind of like or it's kind of like when so sometimes it's like you're you're thinking about okay how do i explain something like facilitation to people
Well, it's kind of like when you're on a trip with your friends and nobody's in charge of how we're going to get from the airport to the hotel. And it just feels super chaotic and everyone's kind of bickering at each other. Well, imagine if you had, if one of the people in the group just said, I'm going to take care of transportation. It's kind of like that.
Well, it's kind of like when you're on a trip with your friends and nobody's in charge of how we're going to get from the airport to the hotel. And it just feels super chaotic and everyone's kind of bickering at each other. Well, imagine if you had, if one of the people in the group just said, I'm going to take care of transportation. It's kind of like that.
It's kind of like, and this is something we actually use in our ads is this analogy is that being on, being on vacation with your friends is supposed to be something nice, but it gets really frustrating when everyone needs to decide where to go for dinner. And imagine if there was someone who was taking the lead
It's kind of like, and this is something we actually use in our ads is this analogy is that being on, being on vacation with your friends is supposed to be something nice, but it gets really frustrating when everyone needs to decide where to go for dinner. And imagine if there was someone who was taking the lead
So it's kind of like thing when you're making copy, when you're writing copy, when you're writing an ad, just keeping this written somewhere in front of you. It's kind of like and then something relatable. So anything you're trying to sell or anything you're trying to talk about, you got to remember that it's kind of like and something relatable, something I've learned from analogy creating.
So it's kind of like thing when you're making copy, when you're writing copy, when you're writing an ad, just keeping this written somewhere in front of you. It's kind of like and then something relatable. So anything you're trying to sell or anything you're trying to talk about, you got to remember that it's kind of like and something relatable, something I've learned from analogy creating.
So both of those are more on the entrepreneurial journey, finding an advantage as an entrepreneur. And then the third thing is just like, I have an idea for a startup.
So both of those are more on the entrepreneurial journey, finding an advantage as an entrepreneur. And then the third thing is just like, I have an idea for a startup.
100% agree with that. Have you ever had Neville Medora on your podcast?
100% agree with that. Have you ever had Neville Medora on your podcast?
He has a book called This Book Will Teach You to Write Better. It takes 15 minutes to read. It's like an Amazon printed book. And it goes into a lot of these topics about how to tell stories from other people's perspectives. But he has one statement in there when it comes to copy, when it comes to all of this thing we're talking about.
He has a book called This Book Will Teach You to Write Better. It takes 15 minutes to read. It's like an Amazon printed book. And it goes into a lot of these topics about how to tell stories from other people's perspectives. But he has one statement in there when it comes to copy, when it comes to all of this thing we're talking about.
And he said, when you're writing, when you're writing for people... And he goes... And he goes... Yeah. And he goes... Did I actually say that? He said he said. Oh, yeah. Okay. And he goes... And I'll just do his accent and he goes, when you're thinking about writing for people, the one thing you have to have locked into your head is nobody cares about you. They only care about themselves.
And he said, when you're writing, when you're writing for people... And he goes... And he goes... Yeah. And he goes... Did I actually say that? He said he said. Oh, yeah. Okay. And he goes... And I'll just do his accent and he goes, when you're thinking about writing for people, the one thing you have to have locked into your head is nobody cares about you. They only care about themselves.
And this is one of the key, this insight that I got when I read that book really locked in for me to the point that whenever I'm writing copy or whenever I'm talking to my team about copy, I'm like, I'm like, and I go, are we writing here about us and about how great we are? Or are we talking about what they're going to get? So this is something that just like super locks into my brain.
And this is one of the key, this insight that I got when I read that book really locked in for me to the point that whenever I'm writing copy or whenever I'm talking to my team about copy, I'm like, I'm like, and I go, are we writing here about us and about how great we are? Or are we talking about what they're going to get? So this is something that just like super locks into my brain.
Oh, no, I was thinking like if you're going to really embody the person and I try to do a big Austin accent. And if I was trying to do the Steve Jobs, California accent and getting like like if I overthought, if I if I really incorrectly took your advice and I thought you meant full impersonation. Yeah.
Oh, no, I was thinking like if you're going to really embody the person and I try to do a big Austin accent. And if I was trying to do the Steve Jobs, California accent and getting like like if I overthought, if I if I really incorrectly took your advice and I thought you meant full impersonation. Yeah.
15 minute change. Yeah. And then like practicing for ages and then the person's gone. All right, move on. This one, I really want to know what you think about this because I really want to know the exact thing you do. You said you should show up to meetings with small gifts. The ROI is insane. I have a lot of meetings coming up.
15 minute change. Yeah. And then like practicing for ages and then the person's gone. All right, move on. This one, I really want to know what you think about this because I really want to know the exact thing you do. You said you should show up to meetings with small gifts. The ROI is insane. I have a lot of meetings coming up.
Especially with people who are a lot more important than me, I would say. They are more important than me, but they're more successful than me. I'm always wondering what to do. Talk about this. Tell me what you do.
Especially with people who are a lot more important than me, I would say. They are more important than me, but they're more successful than me. I'm always wondering what to do. Talk about this. Tell me what you do.
Okay, so a thousand mini Buddhas and you gave them all to one person, right? Yeah.
Okay, so a thousand mini Buddhas and you gave them all to one person, right? Yeah.
Fucking hell.
Fucking hell.
That's really cool.
That's really cool.
I think it also puts you in a humble position, I would say. I don't know if this is even remotely the intention, but it shows somehow some respect to the other person, I feel. Yeah. I think so. What do you do today?
I think it also puts you in a humble position, I would say. I don't know if this is even remotely the intention, but it shows somehow some respect to the other person, I feel. Yeah. I think so. What do you do today?
Like, okay, I am going to meet some people over the next few weeks and I want to bring them gifts, but what do you, what kind of things I'm always kind of struggling between like what's too expensive and desperate seeming and what's like too stupid. Like what, what do you think I could bring?
Like, okay, I am going to meet some people over the next few weeks and I want to bring them gifts, but what do you, what kind of things I'm always kind of struggling between like what's too expensive and desperate seeming and what's like too stupid. Like what, what do you think I could bring?
We'll only get to it if you like and comment right now. And we'll know. We'll know.
We'll only get to it if you like and comment right now. And we'll know. We'll know.
Does Costco sell Xanax? I don't know. Okay. I get your idea, though. So, like, a nice tea... Yeah.
Does Costco sell Xanax? I don't know. Okay. I get your idea, though. So, like, a nice tea... Yeah.
So, it should be permanent. Like, something that stays... What about, okay, if I was meeting you, I don't know if I'm going to be able to pull this off before my next meeting, but if I was meeting you and I got you the Playdate, this little cute yellow console from the guys at Panic, would you think that's cute?
So, it should be permanent. Like, something that stays... What about, okay, if I was meeting you, I don't know if I'm going to be able to pull this off before my next meeting, but if I was meeting you and I got you the Playdate, this little cute yellow console from the guys at Panic, would you think that's cute?
A little yellow games console? Actually, yeah, it's pretty permanent.
A little yellow games console? Actually, yeah, it's pretty permanent.
I actually just annoyingly realized that that's a great gift for people right now, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to get it on time. Fuck. I was going to get people these, the little TP7, but they're really hard to buy. Could you get me one of those?
I actually just annoyingly realized that that's a great gift for people right now, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to get it on time. Fuck. I was going to get people these, the little TP7, but they're really hard to buy. Could you get me one of those?
Yeah, but it's something we forget. Like... I don't know. It's actually really good intangible thing to do. I feel like it's something that not a lot of people do. And I, I think also there's something about coming across as, I don't know how to put this when I meet. Okay. Just tell me if this makes sense, the way I'm going to put it. You, I often meet people who are a lot more successful than me.
Yeah, but it's something we forget. Like... I don't know. It's actually really good intangible thing to do. I feel like it's something that not a lot of people do. And I, I think also there's something about coming across as, I don't know how to put this when I meet. Okay. Just tell me if this makes sense, the way I'm going to put it. You, I often meet people who are a lot more successful than me.
Oh, after. Yeah. I mean, we're not, it's not like we're, someone's paying us to make these videos. I mean, I'm certainly not getting paid anyway. I'm waiting on that check. Um, so yeah, please. All we ask for is a like and a positive comment about my hair. And, um, so before the episode started, I asked, uh, Greg, how, how the comments were. And he said, some people didn't like your hair.
Oh, after. Yeah. I mean, we're not, it's not like we're, someone's paying us to make these videos. I mean, I'm certainly not getting paid anyway. I'm waiting on that check. Um, so yeah, please. All we ask for is a like and a positive comment about my hair. And, um, so before the episode started, I asked, uh, Greg, how, how the comments were. And he said, some people didn't like your hair.
And after a while you sort of become friends with them and I feel like what other people do wrong is that, let's say I become friends with someone who's like, who's been running a company for 25 years, super successful. I'm years away from ever getting there and I may never get there.
And after a while you sort of become friends with them and I feel like what other people do wrong is that, let's say I become friends with someone who's like, who's been running a company for 25 years, super successful. I'm years away from ever getting there and I may never get there.
And they clearly have all the connections I would want, all of the things we talked about, this canvas strategy idea. And I'm here. And eventually I become friends with them. I think what a lot of people do wrong is they're like, oh, now I'm friends. So now I'm just going to get all this person's contacts and I'm just going to call them whenever I feel like, et cetera, et cetera. Whereas...
And they clearly have all the connections I would want, all of the things we talked about, this canvas strategy idea. And I'm here. And eventually I become friends with them. I think what a lot of people do wrong is they're like, oh, now I'm friends. So now I'm just going to get all this person's contacts and I'm just going to call them whenever I feel like, et cetera, et cetera. Whereas...
I would always, in my mind, think, okay, so this person is still being very gracious to give me their time, even though we're friends, etc. And so I think giving a gift, and would you give gifts every time you meet someone? Or just the first time? Basically, how many gifts am I going to get is what I'm trying to figure out.
I would always, in my mind, think, okay, so this person is still being very gracious to give me their time, even though we're friends, etc. And so I think giving a gift, and would you give gifts every time you meet someone? Or just the first time? Basically, how many gifts am I going to get is what I'm trying to figure out.
Trying to put their kid to bed. I'm hanging off the ceiling with 1,000 Buddhas. Holding them in a box and shaking, sweating. What are you spraying at me?
Trying to put their kid to bed. I'm hanging off the ceiling with 1,000 Buddhas. Holding them in a box and shaking, sweating. What are you spraying at me?
One of them falls on their head and it's like a horror movie. The camera pans up and I'm there strapped to the ceiling.
One of them falls on their head and it's like a horror movie. The camera pans up and I'm there strapped to the ceiling.
Less likely.
Less likely.
So it's not just about every time you meet them in person.
So it's not just about every time you meet them in person.
You know what? I think a great book, Grace, I ruined it. I think a great gift, what I give to people is this book. I mean, having a book that you give to people. Why I think this is a nice gift, this one.
You know what? I think a great book, Grace, I ruined it. I think a great gift, what I give to people is this book. I mean, having a book that you give to people. Why I think this is a nice gift, this one.
And I was like, Okay, I'm going to go look for those comments now. So we need more positive hair comments. So I got a big haircut two episodes ago. That was a big haircut. So we'll need some updates on that. Okay, so we'll go with some startup ideas. I'm going to hit you with one, and I'm going to be honest with you that actually this idea came from Amer, who works at AJ and Smart.
And I was like, Okay, I'm going to go look for those comments now. So we need more positive hair comments. So I got a big haircut two episodes ago. That was a big haircut. So we'll need some updates on that. Okay, so we'll go with some startup ideas. I'm going to hit you with one, and I'm going to be honest with you that actually this idea came from Amer, who works at AJ and Smart.
It's one of my favorite books of all time, by the way.
It's one of my favorite books of all time, by the way.
No, no, no. But this is one that I gift people. I give it as a gift. Um, so I bought, I buy it in bulk off the website and then you can get like this hard cover version, but when you get on Amazon sucks, it's like a soft cover, kind of like crappy looking one, but you can get the nice hard cover additions from the website. I buy like 20 of them and I give them as gifts to people.
No, no, no. But this is one that I gift people. I give it as a gift. Um, so I bought, I buy it in bulk off the website and then you can get like this hard cover version, but when you get on Amazon sucks, it's like a soft cover, kind of like crappy looking one, but you can get the nice hard cover additions from the website. I buy like 20 of them and I give them as gifts to people.
Uh, when they come to my apartment, I give it to them as a gift. So that's kind of like something I do.
Uh, when they come to my apartment, I give it to them as a gift. So that's kind of like something I do.
Um, so that's just an example of a
Um, so that's just an example of a
If anyone wants this when they come over to my place, it's like a glasses cleaner, but it's covered in other strange stains. I wasn't trying to bring the book thing in. All right, wait, let's do another. Okay, let's go back to this hack list. Okay, keep a learning list. Make learning your side hustle. What do you think about that?
If anyone wants this when they come over to my place, it's like a glasses cleaner, but it's covered in other strange stains. I wasn't trying to bring the book thing in. All right, wait, let's do another. Okay, let's go back to this hack list. Okay, keep a learning list. Make learning your side hustle. What do you think about that?
What do you mean by a learning list, like courses you want to do, books you want to read?
What do you mean by a learning list, like courses you want to do, books you want to read?
Oh, you use Things. I think it's made in Germany.
Oh, you use Things. I think it's made in Germany.
I think it's Germany. Germany. I'm just trying to get a claim to fame here. An American using a tech product that's made in Germany is like a big deal. You know, we don't tend to make much stuff over here. Yeah, it's made in Germany.
I think it's Germany. Germany. I'm just trying to get a claim to fame here. An American using a tech product that's made in Germany is like a big deal. You know, we don't tend to make much stuff over here. Yeah, it's made in Germany.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's right. That's right. Cultured code. If you're listening to this episode, you guys make a lovely product. I think it's a really lovely product.
That's right. That's right. Cultured code. If you're listening to this episode, you guys make a lovely product. I think it's a really lovely product.
Oh, okay. I don't do that.
Oh, okay. I don't do that.
Oh, interesting.
Oh, interesting.
How do you decide what you want to learn? Is it just following your interests or is it related to business weaknesses you have or life weaknesses?
How do you decide what you want to learn? Is it just following your interests or is it related to business weaknesses you have or life weaknesses?
Oh, interesting.
Oh, interesting.
Probably a good way to network with high net worth people as well is golfing.
Probably a good way to network with high net worth people as well is golfing.
What do you mean by chasing generational wealth is overrated and wealth is underrated?
What do you mean by chasing generational wealth is overrated and wealth is underrated?
Yeah, he has a similar voice to you, actually.
Yeah, he has a similar voice to you, actually.
We were chatting around lunch, and I was like, I'm going on Greg's podcast. He loves ideas. He loves all these ideas. He kind of like stopped talking and just went fully quiet and just stared into space. And then he came up with this great idea. Well, I like it anyway. And his idea is a product called Drip, right? And the idea behind this product, it's kind of like a
We were chatting around lunch, and I was like, I'm going on Greg's podcast. He loves ideas. He loves all these ideas. He kind of like stopped talking and just went fully quiet and just stared into space. And then he came up with this great idea. Well, I like it anyway. And his idea is a product called Drip, right? And the idea behind this product, it's kind of like a
I have, I have zero interest in generational wealth either. Maybe I, maybe it's just cause I don't think I can actually make it. Maybe if I had a no, but really, I also like I guess this die with zero concept where you use the money. And when you die, like I was thinking about it, like my daughter doesn't need to have crap tons of money from me. when she's older because I didn't have that.
I have, I have zero interest in generational wealth either. Maybe I, maybe it's just cause I don't think I can actually make it. Maybe if I had a no, but really, I also like I guess this die with zero concept where you use the money. And when you die, like I was thinking about it, like my daughter doesn't need to have crap tons of money from me. when she's older because I didn't have that.
And I, I found it really fun to figure out how to make money. I worked in bars, I worked in restaurants, then I started making my own things that I, you know, like that, that gave me sort of like something to do and sort of like a purpose. Um, So yeah, I would definitely agree with you. How would you define normal wealth, though? How do you define that for yourself?
And I, I found it really fun to figure out how to make money. I worked in bars, I worked in restaurants, then I started making my own things that I, you know, like that, that gave me sort of like something to do and sort of like a purpose. Um, So yeah, I would definitely agree with you. How would you define normal wealth, though? How do you define that for yourself?
I'm currently working with a financial advisor to figure out for me, what is it that I actually should earn? I run a creative thing, and so it's variable based on my vibes. So how do you and me figure that kind of thing out?
I'm currently working with a financial advisor to figure out for me, what is it that I actually should earn? I run a creative thing, and so it's variable based on my vibes. So how do you and me figure that kind of thing out?
that's so frustrating to the financial advisor they're like so what's your goal and and you go that's literally just based on my vibes he literally really nice guy sebastian i um can definitely recommend him if you're in germany uh reach out to me and i'll connect you he he asked me what my goal was and i was like first of all he was sitting in the aj and smart office which looks like
that's so frustrating to the financial advisor they're like so what's your goal and and you go that's literally just based on my vibes he literally really nice guy sebastian i um can definitely recommend him if you're in germany uh reach out to me and i'll connect you he he asked me what my goal was and i was like first of all he was sitting in the aj and smart office which looks like
like just looks like an art museum of some sort like a chaotic art museum and i'm like look around like do you think i have goals my goal is to keep making stuff that i want to do i want to just do stuff that i enjoy um but yeah i don't have any goals at all i don't know what i want to do i mean financially yeah do you have like a number or like just keeps going up
like just looks like an art museum of some sort like a chaotic art museum and i'm like look around like do you think i have goals my goal is to keep making stuff that i want to do i want to just do stuff that i enjoy um but yeah i don't have any goals at all i don't know what i want to do i mean financially yeah do you have like a number or like just keeps going up
Yes, you don't want anyone to tell you what to do, where to be.
Yes, you don't want anyone to tell you what to do, where to be.
That connects to number 20, which is craft a personal mission statement to guide your decisions. First of all, do you want to share your one? And second of all, how do I do that?
That connects to number 20, which is craft a personal mission statement to guide your decisions. First of all, do you want to share your one? And second of all, how do I do that?
I don't have one.
I don't have one.
My personal mission statement is I want to follow my interests. and then make things that I find interesting with other people. I don't like to make stuff just by myself. And ideally, other people like using those things. I don't have a mission statement, but if it would be something like that, make interesting stuff that I find interesting. It's very much around making things
My personal mission statement is I want to follow my interests. and then make things that I find interesting with other people. I don't like to make stuff just by myself. And ideally, other people like using those things. I don't have a mission statement, but if it would be something like that, make interesting stuff that I find interesting. It's very much around making things
I like to create stuff. I like making things.
I like to create stuff. I like making things.
I have recently very much lost sight of my goals, which I've never defined, but I can sense it.
I have recently very much lost sight of my goals, which I've never defined, but I can sense it.
You know how you, I don't know if you use Twitter like this or if you use the internet like this. I have like tons of bookmarks, tons of screenshots, tons of things where I'm like, oh my God, that's a cool quote. That's a cool thing. I want to check this out later. And also I use like Pocket Cast to put articles into just collecting loads of stuff.
You know how you, I don't know if you use Twitter like this or if you use the internet like this. I have like tons of bookmarks, tons of screenshots, tons of things where I'm like, oh my God, that's a cool quote. That's a cool thing. I want to check this out later. And also I use like Pocket Cast to put articles into just collecting loads of stuff.
But what does one look like? Can you tell me what that statement sounds like? I literally don't know what you mean. Yeah.
But what does one look like? Can you tell me what that statement sounds like? I literally don't know what you mean. Yeah.
So you obviously don't want to share yours, basically. I don't want to share mine.
So you obviously don't want to share yours, basically. I don't want to share mine.
Share it with us, Greg. Okay, guys. If you like and comment, share it with us, Greg. Then in the next episode, Greg will share his personal mission statement. No, but it's interesting, a lot of Americans say things like, you know, that's sort of like my purpose or my mission. It's very rare to hear people outside of the US saying these sentences.
Share it with us, Greg. Okay, guys. If you like and comment, share it with us, Greg. Then in the next episode, Greg will share his personal mission statement. No, but it's interesting, a lot of Americans say things like, you know, that's sort of like my purpose or my mission. It's very rare to hear people outside of the US saying these sentences.
And so, yeah, it's interesting for me just sort of trying to understand it and trying to see if that makes sense for me. I like the idea of having like, so what I have is a post-it in my kitchen, which says 2024. Do you actually, can I go get it just to show you? Or is that an annoying thing for me to do right now?
And so, yeah, it's interesting for me just sort of trying to understand it and trying to see if that makes sense for me. I like the idea of having like, so what I have is a post-it in my kitchen, which says 2024. Do you actually, can I go get it just to show you? Or is that an annoying thing for me to do right now?
All right. Just because it's so it's so like not a mission, but it's like I'll just do it. I'll be back. I'm not wearing any underwear or pants. So I'm just sure. So at the end of 2023, I think it was the 29th of December, my girlfriend and I did like a. It's this Tim Ferriss thing. It's called the end of year review, something like that.
All right. Just because it's so it's so like not a mission, but it's like I'll just do it. I'll be back. I'm not wearing any underwear or pants. So I'm just sure. So at the end of 2023, I think it was the 29th of December, my girlfriend and I did like a. It's this Tim Ferriss thing. It's called the end of year review, something like that.
And then we created our goals for next year based on how that works. It's kind of embarrassing to show this because it's not like a public thing that I've ever showed, but just to show you, I think maybe my version of what we're talking about, which is very much within the year. So it looks like this.
And then we created our goals for next year based on how that works. It's kind of embarrassing to show this because it's not like a public thing that I've ever showed, but just to show you, I think maybe my version of what we're talking about, which is very much within the year. So it looks like this.
And so it's like three questions for myself and then like one physical activity that I am just going to lock into. It sounds like a weird thing. The questions are, number one, am I optimizing for state? And that just means my state of mind. Am I living my life in a way that's going to optimize for how I'm feeling? Because when I feel good and when I feel excited, everything else works better.
And so it's like three questions for myself and then like one physical activity that I am just going to lock into. It sounds like a weird thing. The questions are, number one, am I optimizing for state? And that just means my state of mind. Am I living my life in a way that's going to optimize for how I'm feeling? Because when I feel good and when I feel excited, everything else works better.
A really simple example of that is being very, very cautious of... things like alcohol, not sleeping, over-caffeinating. I have my own list of things that cause my state to turn bad, also social media. Am I lowering noise and complexity? So this is something where just thinking about like, you and I talked about this a couple of weeks ago as well.
A really simple example of that is being very, very cautious of... things like alcohol, not sleeping, over-caffeinating. I have my own list of things that cause my state to turn bad, also social media. Am I lowering noise and complexity? So this is something where just thinking about like, you and I talked about this a couple of weeks ago as well.
But in the end, the truth is I very rarely go back to any of it. And I think that's really common. People rarely go back to any of this read it later stuff, even the like best possible read it later software. It still acts as a bit of like a hole for all of your stuff. It's just like a big black box.
But in the end, the truth is I very rarely go back to any of it. And I think that's really common. People rarely go back to any of this read it later stuff, even the like best possible read it later software. It still acts as a bit of like a hole for all of your stuff. It's just like a big black box.
I actually shut down my holding company after realizing that even though it makes sense from a financial perspective, the noise and complexity, even though it wouldn't, for example, be a problem for you, for me, that overwhelms me massively. So am I lowering noise and complexity? And then the last one is kind of interesting. Am I being radically integral
I actually shut down my holding company after realizing that even though it makes sense from a financial perspective, the noise and complexity, even though it wouldn't, for example, be a problem for you, for me, that overwhelms me massively. So am I lowering noise and complexity? And then the last one is kind of interesting. Am I being radically integral
Yeah, I know. It's fine. It's also a bit pretentious. Again, I wasn't planning on showing this so it was only for me. The idea there is that Am I being, first of all, am I telling the truth? Like if someone asks me something like, how am I feeling? Am I just telling them the answer to the question? But also, am I basically living in a way that actually reflects what's happening in my head?
Yeah, I know. It's fine. It's also a bit pretentious. Again, I wasn't planning on showing this so it was only for me. The idea there is that Am I being, first of all, am I telling the truth? Like if someone asks me something like, how am I feeling? Am I just telling them the answer to the question? But also, am I basically living in a way that actually reflects what's happening in my head?
Or am I just living in a way that's good for others to get what they want? Being integral, like having integrity, the idea is just like, Yeah. Am I being integral? Do I have integrity? Am I, am I, are the things I'm thinking similar? Are the things I'm thinking the same as the things I'm saying the same as the things I'm doing those three things lining up and, uh, Then yoga.
Or am I just living in a way that's good for others to get what they want? Being integral, like having integrity, the idea is just like, Yeah. Am I being integral? Do I have integrity? Am I, am I, are the things I'm thinking similar? Are the things I'm thinking the same as the things I'm saying the same as the things I'm doing those three things lining up and, uh, Then yoga.
I actually have done one hour of yoga per week since January because I was having some back pains. So that also worked out well. That's kind of more like an optimizing for state thing. So yeah, I don't have a mission statement, but I kind of break it down into like the three things I want to focus on for the year. But the mission statement thing is pretty interesting.
I actually have done one hour of yoga per week since January because I was having some back pains. So that also worked out well. That's kind of more like an optimizing for state thing. So yeah, I don't have a mission statement, but I kind of break it down into like the three things I want to focus on for the year. But the mission statement thing is pretty interesting.
Is there any like thing I can watch or read about how to create a mission statement for myself?
Is there any like thing I can watch or read about how to create a mission statement for myself?
Um, and Amr had this idea, which I thought was pretty cool for a product that, well, he, he said all of these services are basically procrastination machines, like screenshotting, bookmarking, save later. You rarely go back and take action on these things. And he had an idea for an AI startup, which I thought was pretty cool. And the idea is the product itself combines your sources.
Um, and Amr had this idea, which I thought was pretty cool for a product that, well, he, he said all of these services are basically procrastination machines, like screenshotting, bookmarking, save later. You rarely go back and take action on these things. And he had an idea for an AI startup, which I thought was pretty cool. And the idea is the product itself combines your sources.
I'm going to look at all of those after I have them open as tabs. I have them tabbed out.
I'm going to look at all of those after I have them open as tabs. I have them tabbed out.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah, say the Instagram close friends one. I don't see it here.
Yeah, say the Instagram close friends one. I don't see it here.
Homie, we just met. I haven't used that feature in quite a while, so I can't say much to this thing.
Homie, we just met. I haven't used that feature in quite a while, so I can't say much to this thing.
So are you telling the public just to not add you to close friends?
So are you telling the public just to not add you to close friends?
I think that's also interesting because what you could do is if someone adds you to the close friends thing and then you see that they're doing something like a wedding or a family party and you haven't been invited, you could get really irritated with them. Like, oh, thanks for the invite. I thought I was a close friend.
I think that's also interesting because what you could do is if someone adds you to the close friends thing and then you see that they're doing something like a wedding or a family party and you haven't been invited, you could get really irritated with them. Like, oh, thanks for the invite. I thought I was a close friend.
Yeah, I thought I was a very close friend and I didn't get put on your will, interestingly. So yeah, okay, fair enough. That's a good one. Okay, let me, can I choose one more just to end on one that I like? Okay, avoid angry people. They suck the good energy out of the room. It sounds like really obvious.
Yeah, I thought I was a very close friend and I didn't get put on your will, interestingly. So yeah, okay, fair enough. That's a good one. Okay, let me, can I choose one more just to end on one that I like? Okay, avoid angry people. They suck the good energy out of the room. It sounds like really obvious.
And I would say not just angry, or maybe you, I don't know if you agree with this, but I would say you also generally want to avoid people who are super cynical, super pissed about everything. It's like you meet someone and they're like, oh, did you hear about this stupid thing? This stupid politician did this country's fucked up. And you're like, oh man, I was having a good day.
And I would say not just angry, or maybe you, I don't know if you agree with this, but I would say you also generally want to avoid people who are super cynical, super pissed about everything. It's like you meet someone and they're like, oh, did you hear about this stupid thing? This stupid politician did this country's fucked up. And you're like, oh man, I was having a good day.
And now I have to listen to this stuff.
And now I have to listen to this stuff.
They're also the people that if you come to them, let me see if I can get this down to the perfect crystallization, if this is exactly what it is for you. You're really excited about something. You're really excited about a new thing. Let's say you got this and you're super excited and you show it to your friend and they're like, I heard teenage engineering are actually a shit company.
They're also the people that if you come to them, let me see if I can get this down to the perfect crystallization, if this is exactly what it is for you. You're really excited about something. You're really excited about a new thing. Let's say you got this and you're super excited and you show it to your friend and they're like, I heard teenage engineering are actually a shit company.
That's like a waste of money. That's crap. No matter what you do, they see that you're excited and they're like, let me just take the pin out of that. Let me bring you down a few pegs just to make sure you're not too excited and too happy about stuff.
That's like a waste of money. That's crap. No matter what you do, they see that you're excited and they're like, let me just take the pin out of that. Let me bring you down a few pegs just to make sure you're not too excited and too happy about stuff.
Because it's positive vibes.
Because it's positive vibes.
Let's say you could even just start with bookmarks on Twitter on X and using Pocket Cast, the things you've actually saved. So you don't even have to create a new plugin for it. And instead of it just being a massive pile of stuff that you go to, you get things drip fed to you at a pace that you feel like. And this could be something as simple as SMS.
Let's say you could even just start with bookmarks on Twitter on X and using Pocket Cast, the things you've actually saved. So you don't even have to create a new plugin for it. And instead of it just being a massive pile of stuff that you go to, you get things drip fed to you at a pace that you feel like. And this could be something as simple as SMS.
You've probably been given this advice or you've read it before that to succeed, you need to be surrounded by people. I've heard this before and I unfortunately took the wrong lesson from it.
You've probably been given this advice or you've read it before that to succeed, you need to be surrounded by people. I've heard this before and I unfortunately took the wrong lesson from it.
When I was growing AJ and Smart in the beginning, one of my mentors was like, you need to be surrounded by people who will question everything, who are like the devil's advocates, who are like the yin to your yang. I was like, oh yeah, you're right. You gotta have those people around you.
When I was growing AJ and Smart in the beginning, one of my mentors was like, you need to be surrounded by people who will question everything, who are like the devil's advocates, who are like the yin to your yang. I was like, oh yeah, you're right. You gotta have those people around you.
And what I realized is that maybe you wanna have those types of people around you when you've already massively nailed it and you need to have, let's say you're running Facebook. You maybe need to have people around you who are like, oh, let's hold the brakes. Let's make sure this decision doesn't have like crazy consequences down the road.
And what I realized is that maybe you wanna have those types of people around you when you've already massively nailed it and you need to have, let's say you're running Facebook. You maybe need to have people around you who are like, oh, let's hold the brakes. Let's make sure this decision doesn't have like crazy consequences down the road.
But generally, you mostly don't want to be surrounded by people who are questioning everything and being the devil's advocates and telling you all the ways things can go wrong when your business is just starting out and you're still under 20 million. You want to be surrounded by people who are enthusiastic advocates and who are excited about what you're doing. And I think there was a time at A.J.
But generally, you mostly don't want to be surrounded by people who are questioning everything and being the devil's advocates and telling you all the ways things can go wrong when your business is just starting out and you're still under 20 million. You want to be surrounded by people who are enthusiastic advocates and who are excited about what you're doing. And I think there was a time at A.J.
and Smart where I really...
and Smart where I really...
brought a lot of people up to the top of the business who kind of opposed everything I did because I thought that that's what you're supposed to do and so it's like and in the end what happens is the founder or the person running the company just loses steam and gets less excited and the whole thing just kind of falls apart and so yeah I think as long as you're especially when you're like the company relies on your energy and you being excited and you being positive it's
brought a lot of people up to the top of the business who kind of opposed everything I did because I thought that that's what you're supposed to do and so it's like and in the end what happens is the founder or the person running the company just loses steam and gets less excited and the whole thing just kind of falls apart and so yeah I think as long as you're especially when you're like the company relies on your energy and you being excited and you being positive it's
curmudgeons are the ultimate like kryptonite for a founder. The problem is they're everywhere. And the other thing, the best quote I've ever read on this is pessimists will always be right, but optimists will always get wealthy. Something like that. Something around those. That's what it was.
curmudgeons are the ultimate like kryptonite for a founder. The problem is they're everywhere. And the other thing, the best quote I've ever read on this is pessimists will always be right, but optimists will always get wealthy. Something like that. Something around those. That's what it was.
Yeah, something like that. Right. And I think that's that's such an amazing sentence to have in mind. If you're building a business or if you're running a podcast or if I even as a guest on this podcast, I'm going to get curmudgeons in the comments telling me that I ramble too much or that I look stupid or that whatever. Fuck y'all. You know, I need the positive energy to even keep going.
Yeah, something like that. Right. And I think that's that's such an amazing sentence to have in mind. If you're building a business or if you're running a podcast or if I even as a guest on this podcast, I'm going to get curmudgeons in the comments telling me that I ramble too much or that I look stupid or that whatever. Fuck y'all. You know, I need the positive energy to even keep going.
You're not on this podcast. You're not out here running the startup ideas podcast like Greg is and putting all the effort into it. You're just sitting around complaining online. And I think that energy isn't, you're a hundred percent right. Like, That energy is not what you want to have around you.
You're not on this podcast. You're not out here running the startup ideas podcast like Greg is and putting all the effort into it. You're just sitting around complaining online. And I think that energy isn't, you're a hundred percent right. Like, That energy is not what you want to have around you.
And then people will say to you, Greg, which you've probably gotten, if you would do that as a post on its own on Twitter, people would say to you, oh, yeah, sure. Just surround surround yourself with people who just like, you know, brown nose you all day or whatever. And that's not the point. The point is you're not at the point yet where you need people to pick things apart.
And then people will say to you, Greg, which you've probably gotten, if you would do that as a post on its own on Twitter, people would say to you, oh, yeah, sure. Just surround surround yourself with people who just like, you know, brown nose you all day or whatever. And that's not the point. The point is you're not at the point yet where you need people to pick things apart.
You're not at the point yet. You still momentum is still important to you. And so enthusiasm and being enthusiastic, being excited is super important. Oh, shit.
You're not at the point yet. You still momentum is still important to you. And so enthusiasm and being enthusiastic, being excited is super important. Oh, shit.
I got too excited. I got too excited. You know, it's the enthusiasm and excitement of a founder of a small business or a startup is so unbelievably important. Like it's not, it's one of the things that brings down startups and small businesses most often is the founders just giving up and burning out. That's it.
I got too excited. I got too excited. You know, it's the enthusiasm and excitement of a founder of a small business or a startup is so unbelievably important. Like it's not, it's one of the things that brings down startups and small businesses most often is the founders just giving up and burning out. That's it.
So once a day you wake up and it's like combining maybe three or four things that have something similar, synthesizing them together and giving you that idea. So an example of that could be you wake up in the morning, you look at your texts, There's a lot of weird ones, you know, like a lot of, a lot of weird shit. Like, I don't know. It's just, I wish that person would stop texting me.
So once a day you wake up and it's like combining maybe three or four things that have something similar, synthesizing them together and giving you that idea. So an example of that could be you wake up in the morning, you look at your texts, There's a lot of weird ones, you know, like a lot of, a lot of weird shit. Like, I don't know. It's just, I wish that person would stop texting me.
Yeah, but they run out of cash also because they just run out of energy for it often.
Yeah, but they run out of cash also because they just run out of energy for it often.
Don't be a curmudgeon, dude. Don't question anything I say. No, you're right.
Don't be a curmudgeon, dude. Don't question anything I say. No, you're right.
Yeah. And I think number one, the team gives up usually means the leaders give up. and just run out of energy and run out of steam and just can't be bothered with the... Like you see that often with content creators as well. Like when they get bullied offline or something. It's just a matter of whether they are going to stick around or not.
Yeah. And I think number one, the team gives up usually means the leaders give up. and just run out of energy and run out of steam and just can't be bothered with the... Like you see that often with content creators as well. Like when they get bullied offline or something. It's just a matter of whether they are going to stick around or not.
And it's really often like that with especially small businesses. When AJ and Smart, when this business that I run... When it's doing its best is when I'm excited and enthusiastic and then I can make my team excited and enthusiastic because I'm the cheerleader at the company.
And it's really often like that with especially small businesses. When AJ and Smart, when this business that I run... When it's doing its best is when I'm excited and enthusiastic and then I can make my team excited and enthusiastic because I'm the cheerleader at the company.
But when I give myself... If I surround myself with people who are just telling me everything's wrong and everything sucks, then I also can't cheerlead myself or my team. I think it's a huge one.
But when I give myself... If I surround myself with people who are just telling me everything's wrong and everything sucks, then I also can't cheerlead myself or my team. I think it's a huge one.
Absolutely. I think that's a really hard line to manage. I guess some people get mixed up with they read stuff online about being more combative and saying what you mean and all of this kind of stuff. but they're not thinking about the fact that a huge amount of things in the world work just because people are excited about doing them and people are motivated to do them.
Absolutely. I think that's a really hard line to manage. I guess some people get mixed up with they read stuff online about being more combative and saying what you mean and all of this kind of stuff. but they're not thinking about the fact that a huge amount of things in the world work just because people are excited about doing them and people are motivated to do them.
And yeah, I have that problem when I'm also talking to my team and giving my team feedback and Laura Laura, who I run AJ and Smart with, she's told me I do this where my team will present something to me and I'm like, I don't like this, I don't like this, and I don't like this. And then she's like, yeah, but then they're not excited to do it.
And yeah, I have that problem when I'm also talking to my team and giving my team feedback and Laura Laura, who I run AJ and Smart with, she's told me I do this where my team will present something to me and I'm like, I don't like this, I don't like this, and I don't like this. And then she's like, yeah, but then they're not excited to do it.
And I'm like, yeah, but I don't like this and I don't like this and I don't like this. So it's easy also to fall into it, even if you know how it feels from the outside. Even if you don't like it, it's easier for you to do it too. And that also mixes well with your comment about be nice on the internet.
And I'm like, yeah, but I don't like this and I don't like this and I don't like this. So it's easy also to fall into it, even if you know how it feels from the outside. Even if you don't like it, it's easier for you to do it too. And that also mixes well with your comment about be nice on the internet.
I think like you said, you probably meet a lot of people in real life that you talk to on the internet, right? And so if you want to be a business person, you probably don't want to be shitting all over people on the internet. I guess Elon can do it because he's already nailed and finished the business game.
I think like you said, you probably meet a lot of people in real life that you talk to on the internet, right? And so if you want to be a business person, you probably don't want to be shitting all over people on the internet. I guess Elon can do it because he's already nailed and finished the business game.
But anyway, next to that, you have drip, right? And drip is an AI that's dressed up in cool drip, right? It's just got, it's, it's very vibey. And. you open it up and it's like, essentially it's your thought for the day or your thing for the day or your idea for the day, or it could even just be your inspiration for the day.
But anyway, next to that, you have drip, right? And drip is an AI that's dressed up in cool drip, right? It's just got, it's, it's very vibey. And. you open it up and it's like, essentially it's your thought for the day or your thing for the day or your idea for the day, or it could even just be your inspiration for the day.
But I can't imagine you going around trolling people on their content and on the internet.
But I can't imagine you going around trolling people on their content and on the internet.
These are the books... I just want to... I just have a pile of books next to me. And these are the books where I feel like if you're... Either you're struggling with your business or you're working at a company and you want to start your own business or you just want to get like a good download of good business stuff into your brain.
These are the books... I just want to... I just have a pile of books next to me. And these are the books where I feel like if you're... Either you're struggling with your business or you're working at a company and you want to start your own business or you just want to get like a good download of good business stuff into your brain.
I just have a couple of books here and I think you've probably read a lot of them, Greg. And I'm going to start with the most cliche, most obvious one. But often people have what I've noticed with entrepreneurs, people have not read it because they think it's like not cool anymore to read this book. And it's like it's played out and it's out of date. Can you guess what it is, actually?
I just have a couple of books here and I think you've probably read a lot of them, Greg. And I'm going to start with the most cliche, most obvious one. But often people have what I've noticed with entrepreneurs, people have not read it because they think it's like not cool anymore to read this book. And it's like it's played out and it's out of date. Can you guess what it is, actually?
Okay. It's the 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. This is the book. I was working in a company here in Berlin, full-time employee. I picked up this book. It was at my aunt's house or my parents' place. I don't know. My mom reads a lot of these types of books as well. And I looked at it and I was like, this looks like Tony Robbins. It looks kind of like, I don't know, it looks cheesy.
Okay. It's the 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. This is the book. I was working in a company here in Berlin, full-time employee. I picked up this book. It was at my aunt's house or my parents' place. I don't know. My mom reads a lot of these types of books as well. And I looked at it and I was like, this looks like Tony Robbins. It looks kind of like, I don't know, it looks cheesy.
I think this looks cheesy. and not cool and like not a vibe. Anyway, picked it up. That's a theme of a lot of books actually in my life where I think they are going to suck and then I read them. I picked this book up and it changed my brain completely. Within probably four or five days of reading it, I already decided I'm going to quit my job. and start my own business.
I think this looks cheesy. and not cool and like not a vibe. Anyway, picked it up. That's a theme of a lot of books actually in my life where I think they are going to suck and then I read them. I picked this book up and it changed my brain completely. Within probably four or five days of reading it, I already decided I'm going to quit my job. and start my own business.
I think it's one of the best books that just like lays out how to make money by selling things and how to do it in a way that just doesn't burn you to the ground. It like teaches you the absolute basics of business and delegation. And there's just a lot of concepts in here that I'd never heard of in my life. And yeah, it's kind of the passive income Bible
I think it's one of the best books that just like lays out how to make money by selling things and how to do it in a way that just doesn't burn you to the ground. It like teaches you the absolute basics of business and delegation. And there's just a lot of concepts in here that I'd never heard of in my life. And yeah, it's kind of the passive income Bible
It's like the digital nomad Bible, whatever it is. It's the first book that I read on that topic and still holds up really well today. So that's The 4-Hour Workweek. I think it's amazing. I think every entrepreneur in the world should read that book.
It's like the digital nomad Bible, whatever it is. It's the first book that I read on that topic and still holds up really well today. So that's The 4-Hour Workweek. I think it's amazing. I think every entrepreneur in the world should read that book.
And it's taking the topic is around one topic that I got really into a couple of months ago was this idea of atomization. I don't know if you ever read this article called the atomization of life. I think the guy is called Nat Eliason. Anyway, I saved that article and then I Googled it and I saved loads of other things and then I bookmarked loads of stuff.
And it's taking the topic is around one topic that I got really into a couple of months ago was this idea of atomization. I don't know if you ever read this article called the atomization of life. I think the guy is called Nat Eliason. Anyway, I saved that article and then I Googled it and I saved loads of other things and then I bookmarked loads of stuff.
I also love things like the little lifestyle things in there, like the mini retirement. It was just so many things in there that completely broke my brain. And I was so lucky. It's the first business book I ever read. like was the four hour work week by Tim Ferriss. And it's, it's a, it was a completely mind blowing experience.
I also love things like the little lifestyle things in there, like the mini retirement. It was just so many things in there that completely broke my brain. And I was so lucky. It's the first business book I ever read. like was the four hour work week by Tim Ferriss. And it's, it's a, it was a completely mind blowing experience.
And obviously his followups like tools of Titans, tribes of tribe of mentors also great. But this really feels to me like, I also love that this book, you know, goes into practicalities like running Google ads to a landing page and testing the copy. It's a super practical book as well. It was the first time I also even learned about things like this.
And obviously his followups like tools of Titans, tribes of tribe of mentors also great. But this really feels to me like, I also love that this book, you know, goes into practicalities like running Google ads to a landing page and testing the copy. It's a super practical book as well. It was the first time I also even learned about things like this.
So cool. All right. There's no, they're not in any order. I'm just kind of looking. The next book I think I probably read, it might've been the next book I read because Tim Ferriss connected me then in his world to this book was Anything You Want by Derek Sivers. And it's 40 lessons for a new kind of entrepreneur. And this book really teaches me, taught me about like,
So cool. All right. There's no, they're not in any order. I'm just kind of looking. The next book I think I probably read, it might've been the next book I read because Tim Ferriss connected me then in his world to this book was Anything You Want by Derek Sivers. And it's 40 lessons for a new kind of entrepreneur. And this book really teaches me, taught me about like,
that you just do not have to run a business the way other people are running businesses. You can really just make your own, you can make your own really specific brand of business. This guy, Derek Sivers, again, you know, his other book.
that you just do not have to run a business the way other people are running businesses. You can really just make your own, you can make your own really specific brand of business. This guy, Derek Sivers, again, you know, his other book.
I'm very surprised about that. I think this is one of my favorite books of all time.
I'm very surprised about that. I think this is one of my favorite books of all time.
He created a company called CD Baby, which he sold for either 30 million. So he created an online digital product, sold it for many, many, many million. And then he just went off and disappeared and decided to not do that anymore. And he's just living a really fun sounding life. And so it's inspirational. He's like a, he's a creative, I guess it connects with me.
He created a company called CD Baby, which he sold for either 30 million. So he created an online digital product, sold it for many, many, many million. And then he just went off and disappeared and decided to not do that anymore. And he's just living a really fun sounding life. And so it's inspirational. He's like a, he's a creative, I guess it connects with me.
Yes, exactly. So he didn't get caught up in the money making.
Yes, exactly. So he didn't get caught up in the money making.
So he can teach you things and he doesn't need any money anymore, but he's teaching because he wants to teach. And I think that's really interesting. Next one, Double Your Profits, another old school looking book by Bob Pfeiffer. I don't know if you know this one. It's really, really good. So this book is 78 Ways to Cut Costs, Increase Sales, and Dramatically Improve Your Bottom Line.
So he can teach you things and he doesn't need any money anymore, but he's teaching because he wants to teach. And I think that's really interesting. Next one, Double Your Profits, another old school looking book by Bob Pfeiffer. I don't know if you know this one. It's really, really good. So this book is 78 Ways to Cut Costs, Increase Sales, and Dramatically Improve Your Bottom Line.
This is a book I read... Two days ago, again, and I read it almost like every quarter. It's just a good reminder of little tactics. And you can open up a page and there'll be a tactic in there. I think one of my favorite things is this chapter. It's also one of the most highlighted ones, chapter 10, step 10. And it's maximizing customer satisfaction leads to bankruptcy.
This is a book I read... Two days ago, again, and I read it almost like every quarter. It's just a good reminder of little tactics. And you can open up a page and there'll be a tactic in there. I think one of my favorite things is this chapter. It's also one of the most highlighted ones, chapter 10, step 10. And it's maximizing customer satisfaction leads to bankruptcy.
And the idea would be one day, just it could be a year later.
And the idea would be one day, just it could be a year later.
And he talks about this idea of when you're creating a product and creating differentiation, make sure that you only provide the elements of differentiation that the customer is willing to pay for and not those that the customer is not willing to pay for. It sounds really stupid, but sometimes we'll make stuff at AJ and Smart where like...
And he talks about this idea of when you're creating a product and creating differentiation, make sure that you only provide the elements of differentiation that the customer is willing to pay for and not those that the customer is not willing to pay for. It sounds really stupid, but sometimes we'll make stuff at AJ and Smart where like...
20% of it is stuff nobody gives a shit about, nobody uses, but it costs us a lot of money to make it. And we're making it because one or two people said they wanted it. And I think remembering things like this is very important. Another book I'd actually like to put on the list, which is behind me. Well, I'm not going to get up. It's Rework by Jason Fried and David Heinemeyer Hansen.
20% of it is stuff nobody gives a shit about, nobody uses, but it costs us a lot of money to make it. And we're making it because one or two people said they wanted it. And I think remembering things like this is very important. Another book I'd actually like to put on the list, which is behind me. Well, I'm not going to get up. It's Rework by Jason Fried and David Heinemeyer Hansen.
That was probably this, I think that was the second business book I ever read. And that definitely defined a lot of how I think about building products. So rework Jason Freed, get him on your podcast. Guys, if you want to get Jason Freed on this podcast, can you like go on to X and tell him, come on to Greg's podcast? I saw that he replied to you.
That was probably this, I think that was the second business book I ever read. And that definitely defined a lot of how I think about building products. So rework Jason Freed, get him on your podcast. Guys, if you want to get Jason Freed on this podcast, can you like go on to X and tell him, come on to Greg's podcast? I saw that he replied to you.
He's great. He's great. But let me just... I'll give you the inside baseball on that.
He's great. He's great. But let me just... I'll give you the inside baseball on that.
You like that? Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I think that's great because you're being humble and not assuming he remembers this interaction.
You like that? Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I think that's great because you're being humble and not assuming he remembers this interaction.
That's not your vibe. You're too good. You're going to suggest a specific thing for him to watch.
That's not your vibe. You're too good. You're going to suggest a specific thing for him to watch.
Yeah. Jason's not... opposed to receiving reminders well no no one's opposed to receiving reminders by the way no but as in it doesn't see yeah he wouldn't take it as a like that's cool being bugged yeah really cool yeah he's jason is a huge i think jason freed cable sasser tim ferris derrick sivers are probably like my you're about rushmore That's the German version. Alexanderplatz Tower.
Yeah. Jason's not... opposed to receiving reminders well no no one's opposed to receiving reminders by the way no but as in it doesn't see yeah he wouldn't take it as a like that's cool being bugged yeah really cool yeah he's jason is a huge i think jason freed cable sasser tim ferris derrick sivers are probably like my you're about rushmore That's the German version. Alexanderplatz Tower.
I think it's great.
I think it's great.
Um, yeah, like I, I have, I think almost every page of this book is highlighted. Um, it's crazy. It's, it's all about list building. It's all the stuff that's still super relevant today. Um, these books are beyond relevant, like they're, they're the best marketing books you can read. And I think what makes them also great is that nobody.
Um, yeah, like I, I have, I think almost every page of this book is highlighted. Um, it's crazy. It's, it's all about list building. It's all the stuff that's still super relevant today. Um, these books are beyond relevant, like they're, they're the best marketing books you can read. And I think what makes them also great is that nobody.
I've said this before, people in our world don't like Russell Brunson because he's cheesy, but he's also just very smart and a very good writer. And he's not trying to be clever. You know what I mean? He's not trying to be deep or clever. He's just like, here's how you do exactly this with very little anecdotes and very little, just straight into it. I really like that stuff.
I've said this before, people in our world don't like Russell Brunson because he's cheesy, but he's also just very smart and a very good writer. And he's not trying to be clever. You know what I mean? He's not trying to be deep or clever. He's just like, here's how you do exactly this with very little anecdotes and very little, just straight into it. I really like that stuff.
That's why you're not going to buy this one because you don't respect it.
That's why you're not going to buy this one because you don't respect it.
Could you guys also let us know what you think about my hair? Did you prefer it long or do you like it at this length?
Could you guys also let us know what you think about my hair? Did you prefer it long or do you like it at this length?
It's more crazy. You prefer it longer? I don't want to be... My personality already says... You know what the issue with your hair is?
It's more crazy. You prefer it longer? I don't want to be... My personality already says... You know what the issue with your hair is?
It's medium. It's mid. It's mid-length. Do you agree? And for anyone... I kind of like it. I like the... It doesn't go in my mouth. I didn't like that the... Like when I was eating, when my hair was like to here, it would go in my mouth a lot. And this is going to sound really... You've changed. You used to like the hair in your mouth. I used to like hair in my mouth. This is another thing.
It's medium. It's mid. It's mid-length. Do you agree? And for anyone... I kind of like it. I like the... It doesn't go in my mouth. I didn't like that the... Like when I was eating, when my hair was like to here, it would go in my mouth a lot. And this is going to sound really... You've changed. You used to like the hair in your mouth. I used to like hair in my mouth. This is another thing.
And this sounds really stupid. And I don't care about your audience complaining about me rambling. But when my hair was longer, I felt more chill. As in I felt like... I felt like I couldn't... not be chill. You know what I mean? It's like wearing baggy clothes and having long hair makes you feel different. I don't know how to describe it.
And this sounds really stupid. And I don't care about your audience complaining about me rambling. But when my hair was longer, I felt more chill. As in I felt like... I felt like I couldn't... not be chill. You know what I mean? It's like wearing baggy clothes and having long hair makes you feel different. I don't know how to describe it.
I needed a haircut because I felt like I wanted to go into a new phase where I was a bit more switched on and a bit more... I can't describe it.
I needed a haircut because I felt like I wanted to go into a new phase where I was a bit more switched on and a bit more... I can't describe it.
Yeah, a very long time ago, so I'm not sure if I'll remember that.
Yeah, a very long time ago, so I'm not sure if I'll remember that.
Yeah, I kind of remember it.
Yeah, I kind of remember it.
But it makes you feel different.
But it makes you feel different.
It makes you feel... makes you feel like when my hair is long i'm kind of people assume first of all that i'm super you're not but i'm super like i'm not that i mean i'm not chilled out in the way that many people would think with my hair i mean dude you run you run a successful business you you're busy busy I'm busy. You wouldn't think it with the hair.
It makes you feel... makes you feel like when my hair is long i'm kind of people assume first of all that i'm super you're not but i'm super like i'm not that i mean i'm not chilled out in the way that many people would think with my hair i mean dude you run you run a successful business you you're busy busy I'm busy. You wouldn't think it with the hair.
So anyway, guys, I am being 100% serious about the comments on the hair thing.
So anyway, guys, I am being 100% serious about the comments on the hair thing.
A couple of months ago, you were researching atomization. Here's a couple of new things that have come up around this topic. Here's some of the quotes that you highlighted. Here are a couple of things you were interested in. And it's just a little one pager or just a text message. And that's literally it. You can either go down the rabbit hole back into that topic or nothing.
A couple of months ago, you were researching atomization. Here's a couple of new things that have come up around this topic. Here's some of the quotes that you highlighted. Here are a couple of things you were interested in. And it's just a little one pager or just a text message. And that's literally it. You can either go down the rabbit hole back into that topic or nothing.
We'll be back. We'll be back very soon.
We'll be back. We'll be back very soon.
Talk to you later, boss.
Talk to you later, boss.
It's just reminding you of interesting things you've collected. And there's no central... interface where you go and see all the stuff so you don't have another dump to go to to see where all your articles that you're not reading are stored and over time maybe it can get smarter and smarter and like
It's just reminding you of interesting things you've collected. And there's no central... interface where you go and see all the stuff so you don't have another dump to go to to see where all your articles that you're not reading are stored and over time maybe it can get smarter and smarter and like
I don't want to make it unrealistic because if you're talking about like a one person startup, you're not going to be, it's not going to be able to tell which parts of podcasts you listen to, et cetera, et cetera. But you could go further.
I don't want to make it unrealistic because if you're talking about like a one person startup, you're not going to be, it's not going to be able to tell which parts of podcasts you listen to, et cetera, et cetera. But you could go further.
But the initial idea is a fairly cheap service that drip feeds you back information that you've stored for yourself at a pace that you want it to drip feed it to you. And it's called Drip AI. Drip a drip. It's a little idea. So much to do.
But the initial idea is a fairly cheap service that drip feeds you back information that you've stored for yourself at a pace that you want it to drip feed it to you. And it's called Drip AI. Drip a drip. It's a little idea. So much to do.
What if instead of drilling into your head, you could drip out of your head? That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
What if instead of drilling into your head, you could drip out of your head? That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
I think it would be cool because I think a lot of people, I don't know why everyone loves to make bookmarks products, like collect all your bookmarks, collect all your stuff. I'm like, I'm clicking the things in the apps that store this shit for me. My problem isn't collecting. My problem is getting it brought back to me. You know, that's what's actually my issue.
I think it would be cool because I think a lot of people, I don't know why everyone loves to make bookmarks products, like collect all your bookmarks, collect all your stuff. I'm like, I'm clicking the things in the apps that store this shit for me. My problem isn't collecting. My problem is getting it brought back to me. You know, that's what's actually my issue.
Yeah, I'm going to just start calling myself J Ice Cream now on your podcast.
Yeah, I'm going to just start calling myself J Ice Cream now on your podcast.
I would just start... If I was starting this tomorrow and... I just wanted to make like 99 cents per person per month or something. I would just focus purely on X. My target market are entrepreneurs or creatives who like and bookmark crap tons of stuff on X. And I would just simply build something that works. collects that and sends it back to them. It can be more like a boomerang thing.
I would just start... If I was starting this tomorrow and... I just wanted to make like 99 cents per person per month or something. I would just focus purely on X. My target market are entrepreneurs or creatives who like and bookmark crap tons of stuff on X. And I would just simply build something that works. collects that and sends it back to them. It can be more like a boomerang thing.
Yeah, that's not what I intended when I created my gamer tag, but you can call me whatever you like, Craig.
Yeah, that's not what I intended when I created my gamer tag, but you can call me whatever you like, Craig.
It kind of chooses things from a year ago, one day, two weeks ago, another day. And in the beginning, it would be a little bit random just to see if people care about the idea of reminiscing and bringing these things back. And then maybe adding on this context thing, like there's been an update to this, or this This person who tweeted this thing has talked more about it again. And here's that.
It kind of chooses things from a year ago, one day, two weeks ago, another day. And in the beginning, it would be a little bit random just to see if people care about the idea of reminiscing and bringing these things back. And then maybe adding on this context thing, like there's been an update to this, or this This person who tweeted this thing has talked more about it again. And here's that.
So I think there's a very simple, basic, baby version of this, which could be free and maybe with ads or something. And then there's the AI-powered version of it, which adds context and synthesizes.
So I think there's a very simple, basic, baby version of this, which could be free and maybe with ads or something. And then there's the AI-powered version of it, which adds context and synthesizes.
It's your podcast, dude.
It's your podcast, dude.
I think that's pretty cool. That could even be, we take a couple of steps back, that's another product now where you could just have that as an email list.
I think that's pretty cool. That could even be, we take a couple of steps back, that's another product now where you could just have that as an email list.
Greg Eisenberg, Sean Puri and someone else's like, it's basically the entrepreneur secret bookmarks paid weekly newsletter. It's just, here's what other people are liking and interested in. That would be, I would definitely pay for that. Yeah.
Greg Eisenberg, Sean Puri and someone else's like, it's basically the entrepreneur secret bookmarks paid weekly newsletter. It's just, here's what other people are liking and interested in. That would be, I would definitely pay for that. Yeah.
I'm probably not the right person to ask because I would probably pay a lot. Because I just spoke to you before this podcast about how much I'm about to pay for a mentor. I mean, I would minimum pay like $10 a month or something.
I'm probably not the right person to ask because I would probably pay a lot. Because I just spoke to you before this podcast about how much I'm about to pay for a mentor. I mean, I would minimum pay like $10 a month or something.
I've got three options for you. And I'm going to tell you them in order of what I think I would be most interested in. Number one, and also this straight up, I think would just work well for views and engagement and all that good YouTube stuff. Number one, I've got a pile of books next to me. And...
I've got three options for you. And I'm going to tell you them in order of what I think I would be most interested in. Number one, and also this straight up, I think would just work well for views and engagement and all that good YouTube stuff. Number one, I've got a pile of books next to me. And...
I don't know. You think you're a baller?
I don't know. You think you're a baller?
I do $10. I do $10. No, I just mean like I'm already sold on being able to access things like that. Like I think if we're trying to do like a large target market, but then again, I mean, if we're thinking about,
I do $10. I do $10. No, I just mean like I'm already sold on being able to access things like that. Like I think if we're trying to do like a large target market, but then again, I mean, if we're thinking about,
people who are entrepreneurs who are like maybe a couple of million behind those people whose bookmarks you get to look at that could be pretty interesting but yeah i would i don't know i never know what i would pay for something until someone sells it to me totally totally but i think there's two ideas here and they're all around bookmarks people don't need another bookmarking app
people who are entrepreneurs who are like maybe a couple of million behind those people whose bookmarks you get to look at that could be pretty interesting but yeah i would i don't know i never know what i would pay for something until someone sells it to me totally totally but i think there's two ideas here and they're all around bookmarks people don't need another bookmarking app
Bookmarks. Do you use any of these things like pocket casts and stuff?
Bookmarks. Do you use any of these things like pocket casts and stuff?
But there you go. Okay, so... People who use Twitter bookmarks, a product for them. That's a beautiful niche. Entrepreneurs who use Twitter bookmarks very often and obviously never look at them again. Come on. That's a great niche. All right. Come on. Come on.
But there you go. Okay, so... People who use Twitter bookmarks, a product for them. That's a beautiful niche. Entrepreneurs who use Twitter bookmarks very often and obviously never look at them again. Come on. That's a great niche. All right. Come on. Come on.
Such a great idea. Again, the drip aspect of this is from Amr at AJ and Smart. I want to give him all the credit. Amr, you're a legend. Amr Khalifa on X. I just want to take the credit because he gave me that idea.
Such a great idea. Again, the drip aspect of this is from Amr at AJ and Smart. I want to give him all the credit. Amr, you're a legend. Amr Khalifa on X. I just want to take the credit because he gave me that idea.
Yeah, exactly. We took the seed.
Yeah, exactly. We took the seed.
The seed was birthed.
The seed was birthed.
The seed was, what happens when a chicken, the seed was laid? Why is it laid like an egg? I don't know. I saw it happen with my own eyes, though. He's a weird guy, you know? Then I sat on it and incubated it. for a few hours and then I brought it to you and we hatched it.
The seed was, what happens when a chicken, the seed was laid? Why is it laid like an egg? I don't know. I saw it happen with my own eyes, though. He's a weird guy, you know? Then I sat on it and incubated it. for a few hours and then I brought it to you and we hatched it.
We don't talk about eggs enough on this podcast.
We don't talk about eggs enough on this podcast.
And they sipped the egg juice. You know, when I'm looking back on episodes of this podcast and I'm thinking a lot of people, you know, there's people.
And they sipped the egg juice. You know, when I'm looking back on episodes of this podcast and I'm thinking a lot of people, you know, there's people.
Yes, I'll show you everything.
Yes, I'll show you everything.
True. That's true. So I'll show you kind of one or two funnels that are running today and that people can actually look at live. That's the beauty. The cool thing about me actually not really being a marketing teacher is that I am just running these things for my own business right now. So I can just show you the live things that you can see today. Yes.
True. That's true. So I'll show you kind of one or two funnels that are running today and that people can actually look at live. That's the beauty. The cool thing about me actually not really being a marketing teacher is that I am just running these things for my own business right now. So I can just show you the live things that you can see today. Yes.
And I'd love to be able to also show you... So we're also doing this for one or two other companies, but I'm not allowed to... This is the kind of thing where we do that secretly behind the scenes that I don't want to talk about them publicly, but all the same principles apply. Okay. Okay. Let's open up a funnel or let's have a look at how we do this
And I'd love to be able to also show you... So we're also doing this for one or two other companies, but I'm not allowed to... This is the kind of thing where we do that secretly behind the scenes that I don't want to talk about them publicly, but all the same principles apply. Okay. Okay. Let's open up a funnel or let's have a look at how we do this
in funnel style versus website uh versus website so step one is always or the the first part of the funnel for us is always either facebook ads meta ads or youtube ads if you're wondering why we don't run linkedin ads it's just because they don't tend to work as well for us that's the answer to the question we're just choosing the ads that give us the best roi
in funnel style versus website uh versus website so step one is always or the the first part of the funnel for us is always either facebook ads meta ads or youtube ads if you're wondering why we don't run linkedin ads it's just because they don't tend to work as well for us that's the answer to the question we're just choosing the ads that give us the best roi
So these are the current or like a selection. Facebook is a bit weird. It's like, doesn't actually always show all of them. Could you zoom in a little? Yeah.
So these are the current or like a selection. Facebook is a bit weird. It's like, doesn't actually always show all of them. Could you zoom in a little? Yeah.
Okay. Um, let's see a nice one to go through. Okay. I'm just trying to think of a good, my team does. Look at this. Look at this. Um, we make some silly fun ads. I'm just thinking of which funnel to go into. You guys can go into all of these funnels. I think these are just the ones that are working the best right now. Okay, whatever. Let's just choose this one.
Okay. Um, let's see a nice one to go through. Okay. I'm just trying to think of a good, my team does. Look at this. Look at this. Um, we make some silly fun ads. I'm just thinking of which funnel to go into. You guys can go into all of these funnels. I think these are just the ones that are working the best right now. Okay, whatever. Let's just choose this one.
So this is an ad, one to boost your facilitation career. This ad is just being targeted at people who are reading a certain type of book that we think could be in our industry. So for example, we'll type into Facebook ads, Hey, anybody who's reading GameStorming, who's read any of IDEO's books, who's read The Lean Startup, whatever, show people these ads.
So this is an ad, one to boost your facilitation career. This ad is just being targeted at people who are reading a certain type of book that we think could be in our industry. So for example, we'll type into Facebook ads, Hey, anybody who's reading GameStorming, who's read any of IDEO's books, who's read The Lean Startup, whatever, show people these ads.
So there's a lot more that goes into it, but you can actually look at that if you go yourself to Facebook Ads Library and figure it out. So... This is an ad that leads to a super focused landing page, which is full to the absolute brim. I'm just making this a little bit smaller so I can zoom in a bit more. It's full to the absolute brim with copy. Like it's insane.
So there's a lot more that goes into it, but you can actually look at that if you go yourself to Facebook Ads Library and figure it out. So... This is an ad that leads to a super focused landing page, which is full to the absolute brim. I'm just making this a little bit smaller so I can zoom in a bit more. It's full to the absolute brim with copy. Like it's insane.
And this, you click here, you end up here, become a high paid facilitator in 90 days or less. Very like QVC style copywriting. Wait, I don't see anything.
And this, you click here, you end up here, become a high paid facilitator in 90 days or less. Very like QVC style copywriting. Wait, I don't see anything.
oh here we go boom okay you get brought to this page this page most people open it up in mobile i actually haven't seen it on desktop in a long time and it's bringing you to one thing and that's a free training this free training is actually a one hour long training that gives you a sense of what it actually would be like to get trained by us
oh here we go boom okay you get brought to this page this page most people open it up in mobile i actually haven't seen it on desktop in a long time and it's bringing you to one thing and that's a free training this free training is actually a one hour long training that gives you a sense of what it actually would be like to get trained by us
So it's a one hour training using a format, which I learned from going to lots of marketing conferences and just watching other people. And this format, a lot of it I stole from this book called Expert Secrets, which I showed on the last episode. But there's this section of that book called Epiphany. By the way, this funnel has been running since 2020. and it hasn't changed.
So it's a one hour training using a format, which I learned from going to lots of marketing conferences and just watching other people. And this format, a lot of it I stole from this book called Expert Secrets, which I showed on the last episode. But there's this section of that book called Epiphany. By the way, this funnel has been running since 2020. and it hasn't changed.
I'm not like a funnel marketing teacher or something, So if anyone's like, oh, he doesn't teach it good, that's not actually my job. My job, I make funnels to make money for my own business and occasionally for other people's businesses. But I'm not a teacher of this topic. I just do it. So if there's... Maybe occasionally you'll have to just jump in with questions.
I'm not like a funnel marketing teacher or something, So if anyone's like, oh, he doesn't teach it good, that's not actually my job. My job, I make funnels to make money for my own business and occasionally for other people's businesses. But I'm not a teacher of this topic. I just do it. So if there's... Maybe occasionally you'll have to just jump in with questions.
And this is one hour and 10 minute long session with me teaching you basically the basics you need to become a facilitator and also all the things you need to do to actually build a career as a facilitator. This is a new intro we added this year just so people wouldn't be confused why I look like this in the whole training. And then I look like this in the ads.
And this is one hour and 10 minute long session with me teaching you basically the basics you need to become a facilitator and also all the things you need to do to actually build a career as a facilitator. This is a new intro we added this year just so people wouldn't be confused why I look like this in the whole training. And then I look like this in the ads.
So it's actually the only update we did in four years. So people watch the training. After a while, this button appears. After people have watched it, I think we have it like if they skip forward, they can kind of hack it, but they have to watch it for like 15 minutes or something before it appears.
So it's actually the only update we did in four years. So people watch the training. After a while, this button appears. After people have watched it, I think we have it like if they skip forward, they can kind of hack it, but they have to watch it for like 15 minutes or something before it appears.
And at the end of this video or multiple times through this video, I mentioned that if you want to know more, you can talk to my team. I keep mentioning this over and over again. And I'm showing I'm basically giving away a lot of information here, like a lot of information. I'm teaching a lot of stuff that you could go away with.
And at the end of this video or multiple times through this video, I mentioned that if you want to know more, you can talk to my team. I keep mentioning this over and over again. And I'm showing I'm basically giving away a lot of information here, like a lot of information. I'm teaching a lot of stuff that you could go away with.
But there's going to be certain people who are watching this who are like, I actually love this. And I'm not the type of person who wants to read, you know, 30 books and take two years to do this. I actually want to speak with the AJ and smart team and see what type of training I might be able to get or I might be able to get from my team. to make this happen. So then... Wait, wait.
But there's going to be certain people who are watching this who are like, I actually love this. And I'm not the type of person who wants to read, you know, 30 books and take two years to do this. I actually want to speak with the AJ and smart team and see what type of training I might be able to get or I might be able to get from my team. to make this happen. So then... Wait, wait.
Yes. It doesn't have to be obnoxiously long. This funnel has an obnoxiously long video.
Yes. It doesn't have to be obnoxiously long. This funnel has an obnoxiously long video.
They would never have watched this one hour long video if they hadn't had to unlock it.
They would never have watched this one hour long video if they hadn't had to unlock it.
and if it was easier to find you know basically they're finding this because they came through a facebook ad they have no like the the url is insane they have and this is not on purpose it's just the nature of a funnel not having a place that it lives on your website so actually if they do just close this and they don't enter their email address they won't ever find it again but
and if it was easier to find you know basically they're finding this because they came through a facebook ad they have no like the the url is insane they have and this is not on purpose it's just the nature of a funnel not having a place that it lives on your website so actually if they do just close this and they don't enter their email address they won't ever find it again but
because they entered their email address, we can now kind of, first of all, people can watch the video. And if they enter their email address, we essentially play out the video over email if we see that they didn't watch the video and we play it out to them over multiple days and still end with this call to action to book a call.
because they entered their email address, we can now kind of, first of all, people can watch the video. And if they enter their email address, we essentially play out the video over email if we see that they didn't watch the video and we play it out to them over multiple days and still end with this call to action to book a call.
But yes, having them focused and watching this video in a funnel is a lot more effective than having that just on the website.
But yes, having them focused and watching this video in a funnel is a lot more effective than having that just on the website.
You also know about funnels, but maybe you can imagine yourself as the audience if you have things where you're like, that maybe wouldn't make sense to people. Yeah, I think that context is important. I don't have a funnel marketing course that you can buy from.
You also know about funnels, but maybe you can imagine yourself as the audience if you have things where you're like, that maybe wouldn't make sense to people. Yeah, I think that context is important. I don't have a funnel marketing course that you can buy from.
Yeah, it definitely works for other... The company that I learned it from is a software company that uses it for themselves. And that's ClickFunnels. They basically sell software using this process, using funnels, and they also sell lots of other different types of software. And there's also lots of other software companies doing it.
Yeah, it definitely works for other... The company that I learned it from is a software company that uses it for themselves. And that's ClickFunnels. They basically sell software using this process, using funnels, and they also sell lots of other different types of software. And there's also lots of other software companies doing it.
However, okay, I think there are some people, there are some situations where So it makes sense. It makes absolute sense for any situation where you'll want to turn a stranger into a customer. That's basically the system for it, right? Turning strangers into customers. But it doesn't have to be a one hour long video. That might not work for a software company.
However, okay, I think there are some people, there are some situations where So it makes sense. It makes absolute sense for any situation where you'll want to turn a stranger into a customer. That's basically the system for it, right? Turning strangers into customers. But it doesn't have to be a one hour long video. That might not work for a software company.
For a software company, we might want to do something a little bit more simple. There's millions of different types of funnels and campaigns that you can run. I'm just trying to think, is there a company where it wouldn't work? Yeah. Anything where extreme prestige is important, like a Michelin star restaurant.
For a software company, we might want to do something a little bit more simple. There's millions of different types of funnels and campaigns that you can run. I'm just trying to think, is there a company where it wouldn't work? Yeah. Anything where extreme prestige is important, like a Michelin star restaurant.
Although I have seen high prestige things like doctors that are like, you know, they'll charge you 250K per year to take care of your blood work and all of this. I've seen things like this using funnels. I don't know. It works for basically every... Yeah, it's not going to work for... A large corporate is not going to do this. OpenAI is not going to do this today.
Although I have seen high prestige things like doctors that are like, you know, they'll charge you 250K per year to take care of your blood work and all of this. I've seen things like this using funnels. I don't know. It works for basically every... Yeah, it's not going to work for... A large corporate is not going to do this. OpenAI is not going to do this today.
I think it's best for bootstrapped businesses because you're getting the direct ROI from the ads. Whereas if you have loads of funding already, then maybe you can just brute force it with branding and different types of deals and having a huge sales team. So I think it works really well for bootstrapped businesses. My speciality is selling...
I think it's best for bootstrapped businesses because you're getting the direct ROI from the ads. Whereas if you have loads of funding already, then maybe you can just brute force it with branding and different types of deals and having a huge sales team. So I think it works really well for bootstrapped businesses. My speciality is selling...
uh, training either in person or online, either to large corporates or to individuals and training can be literally, um, you know, teaching people design, teaching people facilitation, um, teaching people public speaking is a big one at the moment. Um, and I can teach, I can, um, build funnels for those types of things.
uh, training either in person or online, either to large corporates or to individuals and training can be literally, um, you know, teaching people design, teaching people facilitation, um, teaching people public speaking is a big one at the moment. Um, and I can teach, I can, um, build funnels for those types of things.
I can also build funnels for agencies looking to get high ticket projects, like designing websites, doing marketing for people, that kind of shit. But I personally haven't done it for a software company, but I've just seen it. That's, I don't know if that answers your question.
I can also build funnels for agencies looking to get high ticket projects, like designing websites, doing marketing for people, that kind of shit. But I personally haven't done it for a software company, but I've just seen it. That's, I don't know if that answers your question.
It was getting on here. Bye.
It was getting on here. Bye.
Okay. Cool. I haven't seen too many, but there are verticals. So I shouldn't say, yeah. Okay. Well, I'll tell them before this episode comes out. So we have this separate company to AJ and Smart called Partners, where we partner up with companies to do this. We don't do it as an agency. We basically advise them on building funnels, but they have to be able to execute everything themselves.
Okay. Cool. I haven't seen too many, but there are verticals. So I shouldn't say, yeah. Okay. Well, I'll tell them before this episode comes out. So we have this separate company to AJ and Smart called Partners, where we partner up with companies to do this. We don't do it as an agency. We basically advise them on building funnels, but they have to be able to execute everything themselves.
The things that I'm not comfortable selling or where I think it's way harder, number one, if you don't want to run ads, it's very difficult. Number two, if you have no list at all and you have no experience doing any type of marketing, it is a bit of a, it's not super easy to go from zero to a hundred. Then I even recommend, I'm like this person who wanted to do the partners thing with us.
The things that I'm not comfortable selling or where I think it's way harder, number one, if you don't want to run ads, it's very difficult. Number two, if you have no list at all and you have no experience doing any type of marketing, it is a bit of a, it's not super easy to go from zero to a hundred. Then I even recommend, I'm like this person who wanted to do the partners thing with us.
I was like, I think you need to hire someone in house who can do it because I can't really advise you. I can't help you do this if no one can execute the work. So if you're like totally unaware of how to build landing pages, how to do copy, that kind of stuff, It might be more difficult as well. And if you're not, if you don't want to hire anybody to do it. Cool.
I was like, I think you need to hire someone in house who can do it because I can't really advise you. I can't help you do this if no one can execute the work. So if you're like totally unaware of how to build landing pages, how to do copy, that kind of stuff, It might be more difficult as well. And if you're not, if you don't want to hire anybody to do it. Cool.
Yeah, now I'll sell it to you.
Yeah, now I'll sell it to you.
Then again, a website doesn't do anything. So you need to do something. You got to do something.
Then again, a website doesn't do anything. So you need to do something. You got to do something.
Okay, so I'll just continue this funnel for a second to show you where it goes. Also, people will say, yeah, like one big worry people have is like, well, that funnel, like the funnel I'm showing you now, which is four years old, they're going to be like, that looks shitty. Like that doesn't really represent the brand. And what I would say to that is,
Okay, so I'll just continue this funnel for a second to show you where it goes. Also, people will say, yeah, like one big worry people have is like, well, that funnel, like the funnel I'm showing you now, which is four years old, they're going to be like, that looks shitty. Like that doesn't really represent the brand. And what I would say to that is,
The general vibe and feeling of that funnel, I was able to pull that together in a couple of hours in this ClickFunnels program. There's so many different other ones as well. Mostly by myself without having to think too much about it. And initially it was just to test one product, right? I was just trying to see, can we sell this one product using this type of funnel and
The general vibe and feeling of that funnel, I was able to pull that together in a couple of hours in this ClickFunnels program. There's so many different other ones as well. Mostly by myself without having to think too much about it. And initially it was just to test one product, right? I was just trying to see, can we sell this one product using this type of funnel and
Okay, so I think a lot of people don't really understand what funnels are. And I think also a lot of people shy away from the concept of funnels because they are not often used in, well, I think people mix up like websites and funnels. That's the first thing. So what is a funnel, first of all? Well, a funnel is really just a step-by-step process from turning someone from being a complete stranger
Okay, so I think a lot of people don't really understand what funnels are. And I think also a lot of people shy away from the concept of funnels because they are not often used in, well, I think people mix up like websites and funnels. That's the first thing. So what is a funnel, first of all? Well, a funnel is really just a step-by-step process from turning someone from being a complete stranger
My goal later was to turn it into something much nicer. But what actually happens is it does really well. And every time we try to make it look nicer, it does worse. So the like shittiest looking funnels we have tend to be the seven figure funnels. And the nicest looking stuff we have tend to not make any money at all, which is very annoying because we're like also a design agency.
My goal later was to turn it into something much nicer. But what actually happens is it does really well. And every time we try to make it look nicer, it does worse. So the like shittiest looking funnels we have tend to be the seven figure funnels. And the nicest looking stuff we have tend to not make any money at all, which is very annoying because we're like also a design agency.
I think lots and lots of copy tends to work well. Like really good, convincing copywriting and a kind of scrappy look to it. I don't know. It just seems to work fine. I don't know why. Well, I think the simple answer to it is when we try to make something look nice, it has way less text.
I think lots and lots of copy tends to work well. Like really good, convincing copywriting and a kind of scrappy look to it. I don't know. It just seems to work fine. I don't know why. Well, I think the simple answer to it is when we try to make something look nice, it has way less text.
Like look at the comparison between this and we're less willing to fill it up with text as well because we don't want it to look ugly. So like... There's this, which is our kind of I keep changing the size because I'm on a massive monitor here and it's just easier for me to see. So this is like our, you know, nice looking thing. You know, it's kind of there's not so much text right up top.
Like look at the comparison between this and we're less willing to fill it up with text as well because we don't want it to look ugly. So like... There's this, which is our kind of I keep changing the size because I'm on a massive monitor here and it's just easier for me to see. So this is like our, you know, nice looking thing. You know, it's kind of there's not so much text right up top.
Then you have, and I know you can't see this right now for a second. Then you have this, which I think looks absolutely dreadful. And actually I see that this line, this has actually also broken itself here, but whatever, who cares? This looks horrible. I hate it. Actually, I just realized like, look at the difference between the size of this button and this button. I'm actually disgusted.
Then you have, and I know you can't see this right now for a second. Then you have this, which I think looks absolutely dreadful. And actually I see that this line, this has actually also broken itself here, but whatever, who cares? This looks horrible. I hate it. Actually, I just realized like, look at the difference between the size of this button and this button. I'm actually disgusted.
But it's just packed full of information that somehow seems to work well and people seem to need. And we A, B test the crap out of this kind of thing. So I don't know. This is just, this funnel is annoyingly popular. Like as in this one has generated this year. So this launched in 2020. This one funnel, which I can barely look at,
But it's just packed full of information that somehow seems to work well and people seem to need. And we A, B test the crap out of this kind of thing. So I don't know. This is just, this funnel is annoyingly popular. Like as in this one has generated this year. So this launched in 2020. This one funnel, which I can barely look at,
Will has already passed 20 million revenue in it, but in its lifetime, just to be super clear. So in the last four years, actually, it started officially in May. So in the last three and a half years, this one funnel has generated 20 million revenue and it looks like shit. And I don't even like the video anymore. I'm like, I've made so many better things than this since then.
Will has already passed 20 million revenue in it, but in its lifetime, just to be super clear. So in the last four years, actually, it started officially in May. So in the last three and a half years, this one funnel has generated 20 million revenue and it looks like shit. And I don't even like the video anymore. I'm like, I've made so many better things than this since then.
And I'm embarrassed that people see it. But actually, when people see it for the first time, they really like it. So I just have to get it out of my head that new stuff has to be made all the time.
And I'm embarrassed that people see it. But actually, when people see it for the first time, they really like it. So I just have to get it out of my head that new stuff has to be made all the time.
Actually, yes. Yeah. I mean, dude, most people who are not like... I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs have a severe lack of urgency. and a lack of willingness to just see what happens if I get something out there. I, you know, I talk to a lot of, a lot of friends who run companies ask me about funnels because they're like, okay, I believe you. Now I want to do funnels.
Actually, yes. Yeah. I mean, dude, most people who are not like... I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs have a severe lack of urgency. and a lack of willingness to just see what happens if I get something out there. I, you know, I talk to a lot of, a lot of friends who run companies ask me about funnels because they're like, okay, I believe you. Now I want to do funnels.
I've seen the numbers and I'm like, cool. So like, here's what you have to do. And then they're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe I'll get around to that next year. And I'm, you know, I just like, well, whatever. See ya. So I'll just show you, will I show you the rest of this funnel?
I've seen the numbers and I'm like, cool. So like, here's what you have to do. And then they're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe I'll get around to that next year. And I'm, you know, I just like, well, whatever. See ya. So I'll just show you, will I show you the rest of this funnel?
Cool. All right, let's see. By the way, audience, I know maybe you were expecting that I would show slides or something. But again, I'm not a teacher of this. I just want to show you the stuff that's live. OK, so now you can see that I'm showing a type form now. Is that what's on screen for you?
Cool. All right, let's see. By the way, audience, I know maybe you were expecting that I would show slides or something. But again, I'm not a teacher of this. I just want to show you the stuff that's live. OK, so now you can see that I'm showing a type form now. Is that what's on screen for you?
OK, so we've added that we add this type form when our lead flow is low, too high. So when we have a lot of lead flow, as in where our Facebook ads are working really well and loads of people are booking calls, we add in this survey. But when the lead flow is low, when ads are expensive, when not so many people are coming in, we turn it off. So it's just a way to add friction.
OK, so we've added that we add this type form when our lead flow is low, too high. So when we have a lot of lead flow, as in where our Facebook ads are working really well and loads of people are booking calls, we add in this survey. But when the lead flow is low, when ads are expensive, when not so many people are coming in, we turn it off. So it's just a way to add friction.
So this is a friction increasing survey that we'll add in before you have the ability to book a call with us just to avoid our team getting put onto like calls that kind of suck. I haven't seen this in a long time because the team messes with it every day. I even spelled my name wrong. Let's see. What do you currently do for work? I don't know. Okay. I'm just going to,
So this is a friction increasing survey that we'll add in before you have the ability to book a call with us just to avoid our team getting put onto like calls that kind of suck. I haven't seen this in a long time because the team messes with it every day. I even spelled my name wrong. Let's see. What do you currently do for work? I don't know. Okay. I'm just going to,
or non-customer so it could be someone on your list so a complete stranger or a non-customer into a paying customer so that's what a funnel does
or non-customer so it could be someone on your list so a complete stranger or a non-customer into a paying customer so that's what a funnel does
What would you like our help with the most? Okay. And this is also a great question. How committed are you to achieving your goals and overcoming your challenges? Like, especially if I'm going to sell someone an in-person training, I don't want someone who's like, eh. We'll see. You know what I mean? It's going to be way harder for me to teach them then. Why are you interested in the program?
What would you like our help with the most? Okay. And this is also a great question. How committed are you to achieving your goals and overcoming your challenges? Like, especially if I'm going to sell someone an in-person training, I don't want someone who's like, eh. We'll see. You know what I mean? It's going to be way harder for me to teach them then. Why are you interested in the program?
Dunno. This is Jonathan testing. I actually need to say that to my team because they're going to read this. If it proves to be your best next step, how much can you invest in yourself right now? This is really...
Dunno. This is Jonathan testing. I actually need to say that to my team because they're going to read this. If it proves to be your best next step, how much can you invest in yourself right now? This is really...
an interesting way to just split people up because if they say less than a thousand euro then we just recommend that they use our free stuff which is way easier for everyone okay this is an important one if you're accepted into this particular program in this particular funnel how soon do you want to get started immediately what's your best email address greg at grungus.com
an interesting way to just split people up because if they say less than a thousand euro then we just recommend that they use our free stuff which is way easier for everyone okay this is an important one if you're accepted into this particular program in this particular funnel how soon do you want to get started immediately what's your best email address greg at grungus.com
dot kiam where are you based greg and let's see if i get accepted to do a call yes okay schedule your call so now i'm gonna book i'm actually gonna not Do this. So we only allow people to book calls three days ahead of time. That's because if you allow someone to book a call next week or four days or like this, basically what happens is you can guess they'll be like, ah, forget it.
dot kiam where are you based greg and let's see if i get accepted to do a call yes okay schedule your call so now i'm gonna book i'm actually gonna not Do this. So we only allow people to book calls three days ahead of time. That's because if you allow someone to book a call next week or four days or like this, basically what happens is you can guess they'll be like, ah, forget it.
And they'll just won't turn up to the call. You need to have people join calls with very close to the time when they've actually watched the video and when they're actually interested in doing the thing. So after the call booking, it's just in their calendar through Calendly. That's called a VSL funnel. It's called a video sales letter funnel. The structure is always the same.
And they'll just won't turn up to the call. You need to have people join calls with very close to the time when they've actually watched the video and when they're actually interested in doing the thing. So after the call booking, it's just in their calendar through Calendly. That's called a VSL funnel. It's called a video sales letter funnel. The structure is always the same.
different to a website a website is more like your brochure a website is more like here's all of this stuff that's going on okay so just to give you an example this is the our website so just a website is a place where there's just all of the stuff that you do it's just loads of It's almost like walking into a grocery store.
different to a website a website is more like your brochure a website is more like here's all of this stuff that's going on okay so just to give you an example this is the our website so just a website is a place where there's just all of the stuff that you do it's just loads of It's almost like walking into a grocery store.
You're from your YouTube channel or your Facebook ads. I'll show you how we send people from YouTube if you're curious. So YouTube channel or Facebook or your list, you're sending people into a free training. you do have to come up with a training.
You're from your YouTube channel or your Facebook ads. I'll show you how we send people from YouTube if you're curious. So YouTube channel or Facebook or your list, you're sending people into a free training. you do have to come up with a training.
That free training then essentially shows people how knowledgeable you are and how much you understand the problem and how much you also for sure have the solution. And then you're saying you can either do two things. One is you can learn all the things I did, get all the experience I have. That will take this long. Or you can take the headache. That's the free version.
That free training then essentially shows people how knowledgeable you are and how much you understand the problem and how much you also for sure have the solution. And then you're saying you can either do two things. One is you can learn all the things I did, get all the experience I have. That will take this long. Or you can take the headache. That's the free version.
And then the headache-free version is jump on a call with us. We can tell you If working with us will help you or whatever. And we have funnels like that for kind of all the different parts of our business. But what's interesting is, so we've spent ludicrous amounts of time on money and money built last year.
And then the headache-free version is jump on a call with us. We can tell you If working with us will help you or whatever. And we have funnels like that for kind of all the different parts of our business. But what's interesting is, so we've spent ludicrous amounts of time on money and money built last year.
One of my teams spent a ludicrous amount of time building a beautiful, high end, stunning looking funnel for corporates only, only for corporate training.
One of my teams spent a ludicrous amount of time building a beautiful, high end, stunning looking funnel for corporates only, only for corporate training.
And this funnel, the one you just saw, which is clearly not targeted at corporates, this generates us the most amount of corporate training leads and the most amount of corporate agency leads, even though we're not actually trying to sell that using this funnel. They just learn about us, they see our teaching style, and then they wanna jump on a call with us.
And this funnel, the one you just saw, which is clearly not targeted at corporates, this generates us the most amount of corporate training leads and the most amount of corporate agency leads, even though we're not actually trying to sell that using this funnel. They just learn about us, they see our teaching style, and then they wanna jump on a call with us.
So one person who came through this funnel in September who was interested in coming to one of our trainings recently booked us for a 300 K internal large training session at their company. So that's, that's funnels work. Funnels don't just work to sell individual low ticket things or individual courses or things like that. They're also conversation starters, which I think is really important.
So one person who came through this funnel in September who was interested in coming to one of our trainings recently booked us for a 300 K internal large training session at their company. So that's, that's funnels work. Funnels don't just work to sell individual low ticket things or individual courses or things like that. They're also conversation starters, which I think is really important.
And no one ever books a conversation through our website pretty much ever. Yeah, that's a VSL funnel. A lot of other funnels are the same are a similar structure. I can show you another one if you're curious.
And no one ever books a conversation through our website pretty much ever. Yeah, that's a VSL funnel. A lot of other funnels are the same are a similar structure. I can show you another one if you're curious.
I can just show you on YouTube first because it will relate to this funnel. It will be easier for me to find something specifically for this funnel. Let's just search. It's always tricky showing. Can I go into a private mode? I don't want anyone to see what shit I'm looking at on YouTube.
I can just show you on YouTube first because it will relate to this funnel. It will be easier for me to find something specifically for this funnel. Let's just search. It's always tricky showing. Can I go into a private mode? I don't want anyone to see what shit I'm looking at on YouTube.
All right, let's see. If I search... So with YouTube, this is actually a great example of how people also don't manage to really monetize their YouTube channels because they don't really understand how to do it. I know you can't see anything right now. I'll show you a few ways that we funnel people using YouTube.
All right, let's see. If I search... So with YouTube, this is actually a great example of how people also don't manage to really monetize their YouTube channels because they don't really understand how to do it. I know you can't see anything right now. I'll show you a few ways that we funnel people using YouTube.
Here we go. So share. OK. Here is a... A 36-minute video of me going through teaching people how to run workshops in fairly good detail. And what I'm constantly saying during this video is if you want to have a deeper dive into this, go to the comments and click on this link. And this link actually, in this case, brings you straight to the exact funnel that we saw.
Here we go. So share. OK. Here is a... A 36-minute video of me going through teaching people how to run workshops in fairly good detail. And what I'm constantly saying during this video is if you want to have a deeper dive into this, go to the comments and click on this link. And this link actually, in this case, brings you straight to the exact funnel that we saw.
So we're trying to capture their email addresses. We're trying to give them another more focused pitch on what we do, but we're using this education element upfront to warm them up for even going into the funnel. So this is an example of where if I click here, I know it's not gonna open it straight away, but it brings you,
So we're trying to capture their email addresses. We're trying to give them another more focused pitch on what we do, but we're using this education element upfront to warm them up for even going into the funnel. So this is an example of where if I click here, I know it's not gonna open it straight away, but it brings you,
You don't exactly know exactly what to do, but it's a place for browsing. It's a place for just kind of getting a feel for a company. But it's not really a focused thing which is telling you, do this, then do this, then do this. It's not going to necessarily take you from being a stranger to a customer. It's really a brochure of stuff. So that's what a website is. So this is our website.
You don't exactly know exactly what to do, but it's a place for browsing. It's a place for just kind of getting a feel for a company. But it's not really a focused thing which is telling you, do this, then do this, then do this. It's not going to necessarily take you from being a stranger to a customer. It's really a brochure of stuff. So that's what a website is. So this is our website.
straight to here right where we've been already so also what's really great is if your team if you're running a team like uh let me just actually this is a really important point if you're running a team and they're making like you're running a company you're making content and you're the ceo of the company you're like i don't know if any of this content is doing anything
straight to here right where we've been already so also what's really great is if your team if you're running a team like uh let me just actually this is a really important point if you're running a team and they're making like you're running a company you're making content and you're the ceo of the company you're like i don't know if any of this content is doing anything
That's often what happens when I'm talking to someone and they're trying to figure out like YouTube and podcasts and all of this. They're like, I don't know if this content is actually doing anything. The first thing I ask them is, okay, and they're like, oh, my team members are making all this content that doesn't really make sense. I don't really know if they're doing a good job.
That's often what happens when I'm talking to someone and they're trying to figure out like YouTube and podcasts and all of this. They're like, I don't know if this content is actually doing anything. The first thing I ask them is, okay, and they're like, oh, my team members are making all this content that doesn't really make sense. I don't really know if they're doing a good job.
Maybe I should hire someone else. And then my first question is, where are you sending people from your content? And they're like, oh, we have loads of places, like depends on the content. Sometimes it's this, sometimes it's that. My first step for them is your content team's only goal from today on is to send people to this one funnel that we're gonna create together.
Maybe I should hire someone else. And then my first question is, where are you sending people from your content? And they're like, oh, we have loads of places, like depends on the content. Sometimes it's this, sometimes it's that. My first step for them is your content team's only goal from today on is to send people to this one funnel that we're gonna create together.
There's no other place where you send people and all of your content, always the CTA is sending them to this one place. And then your other team, your sales team, and your actual internal marketing team who's building the funnels and trying to make money, they have one goal. Their only goal is to get more call bookings.
There's no other place where you send people and all of your content, always the CTA is sending them to this one place. And then your other team, your sales team, and your actual internal marketing team who's building the funnels and trying to make money, they have one goal. Their only goal is to get more call bookings.
So one day I want to bring some of the people we work with together in a call like this as well, just so we can talk about the different funnels. But we worked with a public speaking guy. And
So one day I want to bring some of the people we work with together in a call like this as well, just so we can talk about the different funnels. But we worked with a public speaking guy. And
we sat with this team, we flew over, we sat with this team and after listening, you know, three or four hours to all the different problems, I realized the number one problem they had is you guys don't have one metric that everyone is following. And that metric from today on is,
we sat with this team, we flew over, we sat with this team and after listening, you know, three or four hours to all the different problems, I realized the number one problem they had is you guys don't have one metric that everyone is following. And that metric from today on is,
fill up and we like the there was a sales guy working there so it was fill up this guy's calendar so every day when you start the day your goal is to fill up this guy's calendar when you're making when you're making new content your only goal is to fill up his calendar and within like a month it was just full all the time because they had that one goal and because now they have one funnel which had one goal of filling up the filling up that funnel so our youtube channel for almost all of
fill up and we like the there was a sales guy working there so it was fill up this guy's calendar so every day when you start the day your goal is to fill up this guy's calendar when you're making when you're making new content your only goal is to fill up his calendar and within like a month it was just full all the time because they had that one goal and because now they have one funnel which had one goal of filling up the filling up that funnel so our youtube channel for almost all of
2021, 2022, and 2023, it only links to one funnel, and that's it, just the same one you saw over and over again. Um, it also links to some other places. So I want to show you just a quick example of another slightly different type of funnel, which is easier to make.
2021, 2022, and 2023, it only links to one funnel, and that's it, just the same one you saw over and over again. Um, it also links to some other places. So I want to show you just a quick example of another slightly different type of funnel, which is easier to make.
So this is more of a lead generation funnel, which also drip feeds information about our company and eventually leads into a more hard, like a funnel that leads to a sales call like that. So I'll give you an example. So this
So this is more of a lead generation funnel, which also drip feeds information about our company and eventually leads into a more hard, like a funnel that leads to a sales call like that. So I'll give you an example. So this
Of course. Heavily.
Of course. Heavily.
Yes. So I'll show you exactly an exact example of it just to give you a feeling for it. So when someone lands, when someone finds this video on YouTube, okay, this is called how to prioritize ideas in meetings fast. It's a really good detailed video with templates, with all that kind of stuff. One of the templates we put basically behind an email wall, but we wouldn't even need to.
Yes. So I'll show you exactly an exact example of it just to give you a feeling for it. So when someone lands, when someone finds this video on YouTube, okay, this is called how to prioritize ideas in meetings fast. It's a really good detailed video with templates, with all that kind of stuff. One of the templates we put basically behind an email wall, but we wouldn't even need to.
And we tell them to go here, when they click here, This is like a random landing page made in ClickFunnels. I mean, how long would it take someone to make this landing page? 20 minutes?
And we tell them to go here, when they click here, This is like a random landing page made in ClickFunnels. I mean, how long would it take someone to make this landing page? 20 minutes?
Oh yeah, sorry. A random landing page. A really simple one. Look, what's even funny about this is that nobody on my team even put an AJ and Smart logo on here. So it's like it's there is no way in hell you're even finding this website anywhere else. So this is a perfect example of a funnel. It's just living on its own somewhere out in the middle of nowhere.
Oh yeah, sorry. A random landing page. A really simple one. Look, what's even funny about this is that nobody on my team even put an AJ and Smart logo on here. So it's like it's there is no way in hell you're even finding this website anywhere else. So this is a perfect example of a funnel. It's just living on its own somewhere out in the middle of nowhere.
I'm gonna use this as a comparison to what one of our funnels look like. Websites are what we call or what people in the kind of funnel world call shadow funnels. So website is a shadow funnel. It's almost just there to prove that you're actually a real company. And sometimes it's almost just there so you yourself can figure out what you do and just have like a home for your stuff.
I'm gonna use this as a comparison to what one of our funnels look like. Websites are what we call or what people in the kind of funnel world call shadow funnels. So website is a shadow funnel. It's almost just there to prove that you're actually a real company. And sometimes it's almost just there so you yourself can figure out what you do and just have like a home for your stuff.
So this is this page has a Facebook pixel on it. And this allows us to know. this person who's using Instagram or Facebook or any meta product was interested enough in this video, the previous one I just showed, to go to this page.
So this is this page has a Facebook pixel on it. And this allows us to know. this person who's using Instagram or Facebook or any meta product was interested enough in this video, the previous one I just showed, to go to this page.
So even if we don't have their email address, we're going to be able to show that person ads and see if they're interested in other things that we're offering as well around the internet. So the Facebook pixel allows us to say... But by the way, the Facebook pixel has gotten a lot less powerful since... Yeah, since they changed... iOS changes. Yeah, exactly.
So even if we don't have their email address, we're going to be able to show that person ads and see if they're interested in other things that we're offering as well around the internet. So the Facebook pixel allows us to say... But by the way, the Facebook pixel has gotten a lot less powerful since... Yeah, since they changed... iOS changes. Yeah, exactly.
But it still allows us to get some information. But the main thing here is collecting their email address, collecting their name, and being able to give them this template and then being able to drip feed them emails that slowly warm them up to the other things like... open them up to the universe of AJ and smart without, you know, website dumps it all in one go. A funnel lays it out step by step.
But it still allows us to get some information. But the main thing here is collecting their email address, collecting their name, and being able to give them this template and then being able to drip feed them emails that slowly warm them up to the other things like... open them up to the universe of AJ and smart without, you know, website dumps it all in one go. A funnel lays it out step by step.
That's really the difference. It's all separate steps that you actually can't see. So when someone fills this out, they don't know that the next step is like a six email chain that we've already written two years ago. Um, but that's a really simple like lead capture funnel or lead magnet that that we would run from YouTube and then send those into a drip campaign.
That's really the difference. It's all separate steps that you actually can't see. So when someone fills this out, they don't know that the next step is like a six email chain that we've already written two years ago. Um, but that's a really simple like lead capture funnel or lead magnet that that we would run from YouTube and then send those into a drip campaign.
Well, there's two different types of campaigns that they could go into actually. One is that they could go into the funnel. Usually what happens when it gets more complex, first we'll try to put them into this VSL funnel that will sell them a high ticket program from $7,000 to like $14,000 to any sort of big ticket thing.
Well, there's two different types of campaigns that they could go into actually. One is that they could go into the funnel. Usually what happens when it gets more complex, first we'll try to put them into this VSL funnel that will sell them a high ticket program from $7,000 to like $14,000 to any sort of big ticket thing.
If we figure out that they have no interest in things like that and they're like not going to buy anything for more than a thousand, then they go into campaigns like Black Friday. So that email address will then be kind of marked and segmented as this person's not interested in high ticket. This person's just a beginner or interested in low ticket. Let's test them out again on Black Friday.
If we figure out that they have no interest in things like that and they're like not going to buy anything for more than a thousand, then they go into campaigns like Black Friday. So that email address will then be kind of marked and segmented as this person's not interested in high ticket. This person's just a beginner or interested in low ticket. Let's test them out again on Black Friday.
So we're just collecting email addresses, even though it's like, We're collecting email addresses and trying to get the money back as quick as possible with the VSL funnel. But then we have the template that you just saw there where we might not make money from that customer ever, or it might be two years later. So there's kind of different ways of looking at it.
So we're just collecting email addresses, even though it's like, We're collecting email addresses and trying to get the money back as quick as possible with the VSL funnel. But then we have the template that you just saw there where we might not make money from that customer ever, or it might be two years later. So there's kind of different ways of looking at it.
Another type of very, very successful funnel, the most successful funnel we ever did. Oh, actually, I'll just show you another thing. So a lot of people have blogs and make content, but they also don't know how to monetize people from the blogs and content. So they just keep collecting leads, but they're like... I don't know.
Another type of very, very successful funnel, the most successful funnel we ever did. Oh, actually, I'll just show you another thing. So a lot of people have blogs and make content, but they also don't know how to monetize people from the blogs and content. So they just keep collecting leads, but they're like... I don't know.
I think collecting and hoarding leads isn't as interesting as being able to actually monetize them quickly. So we also have a kind of unbranded or well separate from everything else blog, which used to be called workshopper.com, which is why the URL is still this. And it's basically our SEO play, but the SEO play, where does it lead? Always SEO.
I think collecting and hoarding leads isn't as interesting as being able to actually monetize them quickly. So we also have a kind of unbranded or well separate from everything else blog, which used to be called workshopper.com, which is why the URL is still this. And it's basically our SEO play, but the SEO play, where does it lead? Always SEO.
Exactly. And there's another type of funnel we'll lead them to within here. Here's another funnel, which you are aware of. Well, it's not exactly a funnel, but it's... It's a call to action where we can then funnel them into this training. And that's joining a free community. You are the expert there with your super successful community.
Exactly. And there's another type of funnel we'll lead them to within here. Here's another funnel, which you are aware of. Well, it's not exactly a funnel, but it's... It's a call to action where we can then funnel them into this training. And that's joining a free community. You are the expert there with your super successful community.
But we have one other thing, which is a book funnel, which is insane. Let's see if I can find workshop or play. I don't even know if this thing works, to be honest.
But we have one other thing, which is a book funnel, which is insane. Let's see if I can find workshop or play. I don't even know if this thing works, to be honest.
but you actually can't reach the funnels from the website and you can't reach the website from the funnels. They're completely separate projects. They're completely separate URLs and they're actually living in their own separate worlds and like, project teams, concepts, all of that kind of stuff. So you can see here on the website, it looks nice. It's a nice looking website.
but you actually can't reach the funnels from the website and you can't reach the website from the funnels. They're completely separate projects. They're completely separate URLs and they're actually living in their own separate worlds and like, project teams, concepts, all of that kind of stuff. So you can see here on the website, it looks nice. It's a nice looking website.
So here's a link out to a funnel. This is a book funnel. This is a free book funnel, it's called. And we've basically turned it off. So we've increased the friction so high that it's not even useful anymore. But you can Google book funnels. Nothing is more effective, nothing, like in marketing, than holding a goddamn book in your hand
So here's a link out to a funnel. This is a book funnel. This is a free book funnel, it's called. And we've basically turned it off. So we've increased the friction so high that it's not even useful anymore. But you can Google book funnels. Nothing is more effective, nothing, like in marketing, than holding a goddamn book in your hand
And this like all of the all of the stuff you can learn on a YouTube channel for free, all of the stuff that you can download PDFs, whatever, it's all out there. People don't give a shit if you tell them there's a physical thing that they can have that has all of the information in it. a very large percentage of your audience will want that physical thing.
And this like all of the all of the stuff you can learn on a YouTube channel for free, all of the stuff that you can download PDFs, whatever, it's all out there. People don't give a shit if you tell them there's a physical thing that they can have that has all of the information in it. a very large percentage of your audience will want that physical thing.
Don't even bother thinking of the logic behind it. It just works. And also, it's easier to talk about a physical book than it is to talk about anything else. Now, I told you this is kind of switched off. So today what happens is you just buy it and then you get sent into our newsletter and then that newsletter sends you to that funnel that you saw. But what it used to do is you would buy the book
Don't even bother thinking of the logic behind it. It just works. And also, it's easier to talk about a physical book than it is to talk about anything else. Now, I told you this is kind of switched off. So today what happens is you just buy it and then you get sent into our newsletter and then that newsletter sends you to that funnel that you saw. But what it used to do is you would buy the book
We basically were doing it for less than cost price. So now we're charging, I think, close to cost price, but we make no money from it. Number one, this book gives you shit tons of marketing because people love to post pictures of themselves holding books. We didn't ask anyone here. I'm pretty sure we didn't ask anybody here to do that.
We basically were doing it for less than cost price. So now we're charging, I think, close to cost price, but we make no money from it. Number one, this book gives you shit tons of marketing because people love to post pictures of themselves holding books. We didn't ask anyone here. I'm pretty sure we didn't ask anybody here to do that.
Yes, you're right. Fuck. That's brilliant. Oh, these are. Yeah. So like this book now, this page is outdated. This has had like 250,000 downloads and like a ludicrous amount of actual physical copies shipped. But initially, again, people didn't understand the only point of this page was to collect the email address and bring people into a funnel.
Yes, you're right. Fuck. That's brilliant. Oh, these are. Yeah. So like this book now, this page is outdated. This has had like 250,000 downloads and like a ludicrous amount of actual physical copies shipped. But initially, again, people didn't understand the only point of this page was to collect the email address and bring people into a funnel.
And that funnel was called a 2K funnel, which was a different type of funnel. And since it's not going to work right now, I have to explain it. 2K funnel is basically you go, you buy, you get the book either for free or you're paying a small price. I think we had like two euro or something. Then the next page is like, hey, your book is on the way. It's going to take six weeks, as we told you.
And that funnel was called a 2K funnel, which was a different type of funnel. And since it's not going to work right now, I have to explain it. 2K funnel is basically you go, you buy, you get the book either for free or you're paying a small price. I think we had like two euro or something. Then the next page is like, hey, your book is on the way. It's going to take six weeks, as we told you.
Do you want to watch just the summary of the book now? And that's the video that teaches you about what's in the book, plus gets you to sit down and listen to what we do and what we offer. And also gets you to, in this case, because it's a 2K funnel, we actually offer you something to buy right there and then, which was a course, which is called the Design Sprint Masterclass.
Do you want to watch just the summary of the book now? And that's the video that teaches you about what's in the book, plus gets you to sit down and listen to what we do and what we offer. And also gets you to, in this case, because it's a 2K funnel, we actually offer you something to buy right there and then, which was a course, which is called the Design Sprint Masterclass.
which was 2,000 euro, so 2K. I don't know what the A stands for. I can't even remember. I don't know who invented the name of that thing. But the idea there is you actually get, you know, you're paying for all of the Facebook ads for people to come in.
which was 2,000 euro, so 2K. I don't know what the A stands for. I can't even remember. I don't know who invented the name of that thing. But the idea there is you actually get, you know, you're paying for all of the Facebook ads for people to come in.
And then there's some extra little elements which you can do where you can liquidate the costs of the Facebook ads with a small upsell in between, like selling a workbook after that first step. So we did all of these steps. It was crazy. It's just so complicated. The amount of physical shipping we had to do nearly killed us. However, the last step is, hey, you don't want to wait for the book.
And then there's some extra little elements which you can do where you can liquidate the costs of the Facebook ads with a small upsell in between, like selling a workbook after that first step. So we did all of these steps. It was crazy. It's just so complicated. The amount of physical shipping we had to do nearly killed us. However, the last step is, hey, you don't want to wait for the book.
It's professionally done, but soon you're going to get a very shocking comparison to how much we don't care about that kind of stuff when we're making a funnel because funnels are really about making money, generating leads, generating call bookings, and those things need to be changed and messed around with a lot. So this is a website.
It's professionally done, but soon you're going to get a very shocking comparison to how much we don't care about that kind of stuff when we're making a funnel because funnels are really about making money, generating leads, generating call bookings, and those things need to be changed and messed around with a lot. So this is a website.
Here's a free training right now on everything based on the book. I didn't come up with this idea. It's genius. And it worked so well. And the only reason it's not switched on right now is that when it's switched on, it's
Here's a free training right now on everything based on the book. I didn't come up with this idea. It's genius. And it worked so well. And the only reason it's not switched on right now is that when it's switched on, it's
very explosive and it creates a lot of also support questions like people the book arrived with a bend on it and all this stuff so we now have like a company who helps us do that for our next book And so, yeah, next time we'll pay more attention to how difficult shipping is for workbooks and for all this kind of stuff. But yeah, that's a different type of funnel. You're collecting the lead.
very explosive and it creates a lot of also support questions like people the book arrived with a bend on it and all this stuff so we now have like a company who helps us do that for our next book And so, yeah, next time we'll pay more attention to how difficult shipping is for workbooks and for all this kind of stuff. But yeah, that's a different type of funnel. You're collecting the lead.
Guys, printing stuff out for marketing, showing people stuff, showing you holding stuff sounds so cheesy and silly. It works so goddamn well. It's unbelievable. It's crazy. um yeah there's a lot i mean this is a you only have 15 minutes left so i've got no time left because i got i gotta go build some funnels you know what i'm saying
Guys, printing stuff out for marketing, showing people stuff, showing you holding stuff sounds so cheesy and silly. It works so goddamn well. It's unbelievable. It's crazy. um yeah there's a lot i mean this is a you only have 15 minutes left so i've got no time left because i got i gotta go build some funnels you know what i'm saying
I should have cleaned myself before I came on the show. I'm trying to think. I really want to give people as much value as possible. There's a book called Expert Secrets and Dot Com Secrets, which I definitely recommend you guys read. They're very good. They really teach the concept behind funnels.
I should have cleaned myself before I came on the show. I'm trying to think. I really want to give people as much value as possible. There's a book called Expert Secrets and Dot Com Secrets, which I definitely recommend you guys read. They're very good. They really teach the concept behind funnels.
I think you think that all the big companies are not like, for example, you'll sometimes you look at this stuff and you're like, it's not prestigious. This style of marketing, which is called direct response marketing, it's not prestigious. But some of your favorite brands use this exact type of marketing. Eight Sleep uses this type of marketing. AG1 uses this type of marketing.
I think you think that all the big companies are not like, for example, you'll sometimes you look at this stuff and you're like, it's not prestigious. This style of marketing, which is called direct response marketing, it's not prestigious. But some of your favorite brands use this exact type of marketing. Eight Sleep uses this type of marketing. AG1 uses this type of marketing.
Magic Mind, they use this type of marketing. You think these kind of cool brands don't use it. Look at their emails. Look at the style. Look where they're funneling you through. Look at the urgency they use. Look at the deals they use.
Magic Mind, they use this type of marketing. You think these kind of cool brands don't use it. Look at their emails. Look at the style. Look where they're funneling you through. Look at the urgency they use. Look at the deals they use.
This style of direct response marketing is being used everywhere, except, okay, sometimes not by Apple, maybe not by Google, but occasionally they do use the MIFGI concept, which is epic, which is, that's the thing I'll end on, is the MIFGI concept. And that is free. I'm actually going to show you how AG1 uses it.
This style of direct response marketing is being used everywhere, except, okay, sometimes not by Apple, maybe not by Google, but occasionally they do use the MIFGI concept, which is epic, which is, that's the thing I'll end on, is the MIFGI concept. And that is free. I'm actually going to show you how AG1 uses it.
It's MIFGI, which is called most incredible free gift ever.
It's MIFGI, which is called most incredible free gift ever.
So a MIFGI is most incredible free gift ever. And it's about stacking one-time free gifts onto a current offer, which you would think is like too cheesy to work, but it works so well and dramatically increases conversion rates to the max. Like this is AG1's most recent campaign.
So a MIFGI is most incredible free gift ever. And it's about stacking one-time free gifts onto a current offer, which you would think is like too cheesy to work, but it works so well and dramatically increases conversion rates to the max. Like this is AG1's most recent campaign.
where not only did they have their welcome kit and the travel pouches, but they also added this AG1-D3 and AG1-Omega-3, and they present these very clearly as free gifts. They present it very clearly as a limited time offer. You also might think, well, I'm an agency or I'm selling really high level shit. There's no way that I can be doing stuff like this. These are consumer products.
where not only did they have their welcome kit and the travel pouches, but they also added this AG1-D3 and AG1-Omega-3, and they present these very clearly as free gifts. They present it very clearly as a limited time offer. You also might think, well, I'm an agency or I'm selling really high level shit. There's no way that I can be doing stuff like this. These are consumer products.
It's so much easier to do it with consumer products. we are doing MIFGs to the max all over the place. Like when we're talking to a client and they're like, okay, there's this, you know, 200K deal and we really want to close it. We say, if you close it this year, we'll give you an extra 30 licenses for your team. Things like this. Like it's about, and that's a free gift.
It's so much easier to do it with consumer products. we are doing MIFGs to the max all over the place. Like when we're talking to a client and they're like, okay, there's this, you know, 200K deal and we really want to close it. We say, if you close it this year, we'll give you an extra 30 licenses for your team. Things like this. Like it's about, and that's a free gift.
And we'll also send you printed versions of the workshop as a free gift. And it's really so unbelievably powerful that, And I didn't know about it until last year. Now I see it everywhere. The free gift concept. Again, it's a QVC thing, but a lot of these companies use it like all the time. And it's always a limited offer.
And we'll also send you printed versions of the workshop as a free gift. And it's really so unbelievably powerful that, And I didn't know about it until last year. Now I see it everywhere. The free gift concept. Again, it's a QVC thing, but a lot of these companies use it like all the time. And it's always a limited offer.
And I got like, look at just to show you how many of these emails I got, uh, Just another example of it. Time is running out, limited time offer. So yeah, and like they use urgency, even though they obviously like, they don't need necessarily to use urgency, but at the same time they kind of do because it is a campaign.
And I got like, look at just to show you how many of these emails I got, uh, Just another example of it. Time is running out, limited time offer. So yeah, and like they use urgency, even though they obviously like, they don't need necessarily to use urgency, but at the same time they kind of do because it is a campaign.
And if you're doing a campaign, if you're doing a one-off thing like this, a lot of the creativity at AJ and Smart is, what's the Mifki this time? That's one of the most common things you hear people talking about at AJ and Smart when a new campaign is coming up. It's like, what are the Mifkis? Time is running out, limited time offer.
And if you're doing a campaign, if you're doing a one-off thing like this, a lot of the creativity at AJ and Smart is, what's the Mifki this time? That's one of the most common things you hear people talking about at AJ and Smart when a new campaign is coming up. It's like, what are the Mifkis? Time is running out, limited time offer.
And they're just presenting it in different visual kind of lineups, but it's the same thing, basically. Yeah.
And they're just presenting it in different visual kind of lineups, but it's the same thing, basically. Yeah.
I don't think so. I don't think it feels cheesy. I feel like I actually want to have that thing. Yeah. And it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of, It's like a line between cheesy and not cheesy, but you just got to look at what companies like Whoop also do it, you know, like get it now or buy this version of it and you get a premium band as a free gift, things like this. We'll give you a...
I don't think so. I don't think it feels cheesy. I feel like I actually want to have that thing. Yeah. And it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of, It's like a line between cheesy and not cheesy, but you just got to look at what companies like Whoop also do it, you know, like get it now or buy this version of it and you get a premium band as a free gift, things like this. We'll give you a...
13 months instead of 12 months as a free gift. If you buy during this period, um, eat, um, Endel, one of the most like, you know, high brow digital design products for me, for this audio, you know, Endel.
13 months instead of 12 months as a free gift. If you buy during this period, um, eat, um, Endel, one of the most like, you know, high brow digital design products for me, for this audio, you know, Endel.
They have, they had such a hardcore free gift campaign, uh, last black Friday, which was you get 12 months of Endel now instead of paying monthly. And we give you an Endel bag as a free gift. By the way, I bought it and my bag never turned up. But I forgot, you know? But I wanted the bag.
They have, they had such a hardcore free gift campaign, uh, last black Friday, which was you get 12 months of Endel now instead of paying monthly. And we give you an Endel bag as a free gift. By the way, I bought it and my bag never turned up. But I forgot, you know? But I wanted the bag.
Yeah, well, first of all, I think unless you're running, unless you have unbelievably good SEO and you're spending good money and have good talent to get the Google ads to go towards your website, unless you have a lot of brand recognition, your website is not going to sell things for you necessarily. Your website is still the place where people are going.
Yeah, well, first of all, I think unless you're running, unless you have unbelievably good SEO and you're spending good money and have good talent to get the Google ads to go towards your website, unless you have a lot of brand recognition, your website is not going to sell things for you necessarily. Your website is still the place where people are going.
I hope your audience finds this somewhat valuable. I know it's a bit of a surface level abstraction presentation of all the funnel stuff, but there's going to be some people in your audience who I think will dig deeper. much deeper into this topic now and maybe be excited.
I hope your audience finds this somewhat valuable. I know it's a bit of a surface level abstraction presentation of all the funnel stuff, but there's going to be some people in your audience who I think will dig deeper. much deeper into this topic now and maybe be excited.
And then there'll be loads of people who are like, nah, this is like scammy shit and I'm never going to look at it and copywriting sucks and all that kind of stuff. And it's all about brand.
And then there'll be loads of people who are like, nah, this is like scammy shit and I'm never going to look at it and copywriting sucks and all that kind of stuff. And it's all about brand.
Yes. Thank you for having me back, even though I've been a little bit off the record.
Yes. Thank you for having me back, even though I've been a little bit off the record.
difference uh in their businesses and i think uh if i'm listening to this build some funnels like go have some fun build some funnels um and and look at look at other people's funnels go to facebook ad library type in your competitors names and click on their ads and see if they're running funnels seriously that's one of the best ways to learn what funnels to run for your industry see what other people are running for their industry black
difference uh in their businesses and i think uh if i'm listening to this build some funnels like go have some fun build some funnels um and and look at look at other people's funnels go to facebook ad library type in your competitors names and click on their ads and see if they're running funnels seriously that's one of the best ways to learn what funnels to run for your industry see what other people are running for their industry black
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, funnels.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, funnels.
Oh, I definitely want people to check out our new website and thank my team for it because they put so much hard work into it. AJsmart.com, we redesigned it. We went more in the direction of what Greg recommended, which is the more Holdco style. So thanks for, you know, kind of, you know, Greg...
Oh, I definitely want people to check out our new website and thank my team for it because they put so much hard work into it. AJsmart.com, we redesigned it. We went more in the direction of what Greg recommended, which is the more Holdco style. So thanks for, you know, kind of, you know, Greg...
is the is the pioneer and i was reluctant um but we've redesigned the whole aj and smart ecosystem so check that out uh there's nothing to buy i just would like you to say nice things about it on twitter so i can uh tag or screenshot that and show my team because they worked so goddamn hard on it so if you see anything nice on the website maybe you could screenshot that and tag me on uh
is the is the pioneer and i was reluctant um but we've redesigned the whole aj and smart ecosystem so check that out uh there's nothing to buy i just would like you to say nice things about it on twitter so i can uh tag or screenshot that and show my team because they worked so goddamn hard on it so if you see anything nice on the website maybe you could screenshot that and tag me on uh
And with a free gift. Yes. Actually, and to be really honest, you know, people think it's like a thing, you know, oh, comment, whatever. This episode only exists because so many people commented asking us to do it to the point where you were like saying on Twitter, yeah, people are actually getting annoyed about the fact that this episode isn't happening. And then I felt actually a little bit like,
And with a free gift. Yes. Actually, and to be really honest, you know, people think it's like a thing, you know, oh, comment, whatever. This episode only exists because so many people commented asking us to do it to the point where you were like saying on Twitter, yeah, people are actually getting annoyed about the fact that this episode isn't happening. And then I felt actually a little bit like,
of pressure that i didn't want to let your audience down so it actually really works i was reading the comments and i was like oh shit i can't just offhand say that i'm going to do something to your audience and then not do it because they fucking they don't forget totally and i and by the way people who are comment
of pressure that i didn't want to let your audience down so it actually really works i was reading the comments and i was like oh shit i can't just offhand say that i'm going to do something to your audience and then not do it because they fucking they don't forget totally and i and by the way people who are comment
Yeah, he sent me a lot of these screenshots.
Yeah, he sent me a lot of these screenshots.
Well, I hope it was valuable. Please let us know. You know, because again, because I don't have this, like I'm not teaching this thing. If you have questions in the comments of things I could have gone into maybe for another part to let us know, because I don't exactly know what people want to know about this.
Well, I hope it was valuable. Please let us know. You know, because again, because I don't have this, like I'm not teaching this thing. If you have questions in the comments of things I could have gone into maybe for another part to let us know, because I don't exactly know what people want to know about this.
People are not necessarily going to your website as a first thing that the first time they find out about you, they're going there later to see, wait, let's just make sure this is a real thing.
People are not necessarily going to your website as a first thing that the first time they find out about you, they're going there later to see, wait, let's just make sure this is a real thing.
I definitely want to. I'm going on a little, after that website launch, I'm going on like a health sabbatical for the next few weeks, but then I'll be back.
I definitely want to. I'm going on a little, after that website launch, I'm going on like a health sabbatical for the next few weeks, but then I'll be back.
I appreciate you having me on, dude. I know I'm like a bit chaotic.
I appreciate you having me on, dude. I know I'm like a bit chaotic.
Oh, so anybody in your community who knows what this hat is from, I automatically love you. Maybe I won't say it, but in the comments, if you know about this hat, you might've already commented on it, but if you know it, then you're my type of person.
Oh, so anybody in your community who knows what this hat is from, I automatically love you. Maybe I won't say it, but in the comments, if you know about this hat, you might've already commented on it, but if you know it, then you're my type of person.
So like, for example, if you get a recommendation for a great spa in the city or something or a great barber, maybe after you get the recommendation from someone, then you'll check the website just to make sure. But it's not often, especially with high ticket things, you know, things that cost money.
So like, for example, if you get a recommendation for a great spa in the city or something or a great barber, maybe after you get the recommendation from someone, then you'll check the website just to make sure. But it's not often, especially with high ticket things, you know, things that cost money.
a lot of money, the website is more there just to make sure, okay, these guys are real, they work with people, but we're not making any money. Not a lot of money is being generated from the website itself. So yeah. And by the way, we haven't had a nice, we didn't have a nice website for like the first 12 years of the company.
a lot of money, the website is more there just to make sure, okay, these guys are real, they work with people, but we're not making any money. Not a lot of money is being generated from the website itself. So yeah. And by the way, we haven't had a nice, we didn't have a nice website for like the first 12 years of the company.
This website only, or 14 years of the company, this website only launched, last week and we only did it as a branding exercise. So yeah, websites are not like necessarily how you make money or how anyone makes money. And that can be pretty confusing because
This website only, or 14 years of the company, this website only launched, last week and we only did it as a branding exercise. So yeah, websites are not like necessarily how you make money or how anyone makes money. And that can be pretty confusing because
people will tell you to spend a lot of money on your websites and they'll tell you that you should like have the perfect brand and all of this kind of stuff. Um, that's not the way, and that could make sense if you're a lifestyle brand and the goal is to like build up this mystique around the brand and all this kind of stuff. Maybe you're a Michelin star restaurant.
people will tell you to spend a lot of money on your websites and they'll tell you that you should like have the perfect brand and all of this kind of stuff. Um, that's not the way, and that could make sense if you're a lifestyle brand and the goal is to like build up this mystique around the brand and all this kind of stuff. Maybe you're a Michelin star restaurant.
Um, there's a lot of places where maybe funnels don't make sense, but if you're selling what, what we sell is we sell, uh, training to corporates, which can be pretty high ticket. We also sell training to individuals, which up to, you know, $14,000 per participant joining one of our trainings. We also, of course, sell then digital hybrid coaching versions of that.
Um, there's a lot of places where maybe funnels don't make sense, but if you're selling what, what we sell is we sell, uh, training to corporates, which can be pretty high ticket. We also sell training to individuals, which up to, you know, $14,000 per participant joining one of our trainings. We also, of course, sell then digital hybrid coaching versions of that.
So from about 5,000 euro or $5,000 to open-ended, that's our range of things we're selling. But we're not trying to be like You know, we're not like a Michelin star restaurant that has to have the branding perfect everywhere. So, yeah, funnels are where we then most people find out about us through a funnel and how our funnels work. Again, completely separate to the website. In fact, unrelated.
So from about 5,000 euro or $5,000 to open-ended, that's our range of things we're selling. But we're not trying to be like You know, we're not like a Michelin star restaurant that has to have the branding perfect everywhere. So, yeah, funnels are where we then most people find out about us through a funnel and how our funnels work. Again, completely separate to the website. In fact, unrelated.
And you're not even going to see the same branding on them. Our funnels, which I'll show you one in a minute, they basically could start as a Facebook ad or a YouTube video that leads you into a super focused page, which tells you one thing and has one call to action. And the whole goal of that funnel is to do one thing. And that one thing could be book a call with us. or buy something.
And you're not even going to see the same branding on them. Our funnels, which I'll show you one in a minute, they basically could start as a Facebook ad or a YouTube video that leads you into a super focused page, which tells you one thing and has one call to action. And the whole goal of that funnel is to do one thing. And that one thing could be book a call with us. or buy something.
So it's usually one of two things. And we always have a couple of funnels running at the same time. But just a first conceptual thing is that funnels and websites are not the same thing. And actually, what's really complicated in this world is that people who make really nice websites are generally not good at making funnels at all. Because funnels require really good copywriting.
So it's usually one of two things. And we always have a couple of funnels running at the same time. But just a first conceptual thing is that funnels and websites are not the same thing. And actually, what's really complicated in this world is that people who make really nice websites are generally not good at making funnels at all. Because funnels require really good copywriting.
And mostly, it's about conversion optimization for that specific flow. So for us, it's called booking generation. Whereas someone who's really good at making a website is maybe very good at visual design, UX design, but they can't tell you how to make money and how to sell stuff. And yeah, a funnel is just a completely, totally different separate thing to a website.
And mostly, it's about conversion optimization for that specific flow. So for us, it's called booking generation. Whereas someone who's really good at making a website is maybe very good at visual design, UX design, but they can't tell you how to make money and how to sell stuff. And yeah, a funnel is just a completely, totally different separate thing to a website.
Does that kind of first step make sense?
Does that kind of first step make sense?
Yes, and I don't even know how people... When I meet somebody, let's say somebody who's selling an in-person training... when I talk to them and they're like, how the hell are you selling out these $14,000 training sessions? Like, because what they do, actually, this is a great example, a really great example of how someone else does something versus how we would do it.
Yes, and I don't even know how people... When I meet somebody, let's say somebody who's selling an in-person training... when I talk to them and they're like, how the hell are you selling out these $14,000 training sessions? Like, because what they do, actually, this is a great example, a really great example of how someone else does something versus how we would do it.
And I'll just give you the exact example of this right now, like visually. I think it's important to see this stuff first before going into like the nitty gritty details. So if you were an outsider and you were guessing how we make money with, let's say, let's just choose our online training, right? So our online training is called Workshopper Master. It's like a mixture of online and coaching.
And I'll just give you the exact example of this right now, like visually. I think it's important to see this stuff first before going into like the nitty gritty details. So if you were an outsider and you were guessing how we make money with, let's say, let's just choose our online training, right? So our online training is called Workshopper Master. It's like a mixture of online and coaching.
That's me like a thousand years ago. So if you were from the outside and you were like wanting to compete with AJ and Smart, right? You were like, I'm going to... figure out how to make money the same way AJ and Smart makes money. So you go to our website, facilitator.com, you go to the page for the product you wanna copy and you're like, okay.
That's me like a thousand years ago. So if you were from the outside and you were like wanting to compete with AJ and Smart, right? You were like, I'm going to... figure out how to make money the same way AJ and Smart makes money. So you go to our website, facilitator.com, you go to the page for the product you wanna copy and you're like, okay.
So they basically have this landing page and through this landing page, people book application calls And then that's how they make money, right? That's how it works. That's how AJ and Smart works. And if you would make that mistake, you would essentially fuck yourself up because that's not even slightly how we do it. And that's often not how companies do this at all.
So they basically have this landing page and through this landing page, people book application calls And then that's how they make money, right? That's how it works. That's how AJ and Smart works. And if you would make that mistake, you would essentially fuck yourself up because that's not even slightly how we do it. And that's often not how companies do this at all.
Like they have their like facade, right? But that's not how this company makes money. But often people will copy the facade and not know why it's not working for them. Another quick example of that could be this. If you look here at our in-person training, I was having a chat with a guy yesterday who I'm helping sell an in-person event.
Like they have their like facade, right? But that's not how this company makes money. But often people will copy the facade and not know why it's not working for them. Another quick example of that could be this. If you look here at our in-person training, I was having a chat with a guy yesterday who I'm helping sell an in-person event.
The Prince of Ireland, yeah.
The Prince of Ireland, yeah.
And he was like, how the hell... He said that he put an event... online in January this year and it's like $4,000 to come to it. He only needs to fill 50 seats and he still hasn't filled it. And it's like happening in November and it's one month from now and he's only sold like 20 tickets or something. And he said it's been a super manual process.
And he was like, how the hell... He said that he put an event... online in January this year and it's like $4,000 to come to it. He only needs to fill 50 seats and he still hasn't filled it. And it's like happening in November and it's one month from now and he's only sold like 20 tickets or something. And he said it's been a super manual process.
So I asked him, okay, so like, what was the process of selling it? What campaign did you do? What funnel did you run? And he said, well, we just put it on the website and no one's buying it. And it's just crazy to me that anyone actually does this. It's totally shocking to me that this even happens. Like it's...
So I asked him, okay, so like, what was the process of selling it? What campaign did you do? What funnel did you run? And he said, well, we just put it on the website and no one's buying it. And it's just crazy to me that anyone actually does this. It's totally shocking to me that this even happens. Like it's...
If that was how we sold, if that's how we expected to sell out three events per year at $14,000, my business would not exist because no one would ever buy it because it's too high ticket. And also, why would you buy it? It's just on the website. You can decide whenever you want. So... We don't do that. We build funnels, right? We build single purpose funnels to solve these problems.
If that was how we sold, if that's how we expected to sell out three events per year at $14,000, my business would not exist because no one would ever buy it because it's too high ticket. And also, why would you buy it? It's just on the website. You can decide whenever you want. So... We don't do that. We build funnels, right? We build single purpose funnels to solve these problems.
Hello. Hey, man. Hey. Hey, audience. I'm very well prepared for this funnel chat, as you can see here. I've got my slides. and my thing to create the slides. So it's going to be fun. So I did say on the last episode that I was on that I would talk about how to basically kind of do a funnels 101 sort of session. So yeah, I mean, just maybe good to know upfront.
Hello. Hey, man. Hey. Hey, audience. I'm very well prepared for this funnel chat, as you can see here. I've got my slides. and my thing to create the slides. So it's going to be fun. So I did say on the last episode that I was on that I would talk about how to basically kind of do a funnels 101 sort of session. So yeah, I mean, just maybe good to know upfront.
And these funnels are very ugly. No attention is paid to the design. And the copy in the end is not even aligned with our brand because the copy is very much whatever marketing style copy is working for this particular funnel. And it's not like...
And these funnels are very ugly. No attention is paid to the design. And the copy in the end is not even aligned with our brand because the copy is very much whatever marketing style copy is working for this particular funnel. And it's not like...
totally insanely misaligned like fuck you motherfucker it's just that the style of copy is not the style of copy we would ever put on our own website because it's not representative of what our brand is but it works really well for the funnel so our funnel yeah so maybe and maybe this is where you're going but it sounds like you're saying I have a secret but I can't tell you
totally insanely misaligned like fuck you motherfucker it's just that the style of copy is not the style of copy we would ever put on our own website because it's not representative of what our brand is but it works really well for the funnel so our funnel yeah so maybe and maybe this is where you're going but it sounds like you're saying I have a secret but I can't tell you
How the hell do you get in touch with literally everyone on the planet? Like, how do you do networking?
How the hell do you get in touch with literally everyone on the planet? Like, how do you do networking?
Not to say that I helped with his YouTube channel at all. But just reaching out and being like, hey, I am in Austin. What are you up to? Sends me his number, invites me to his house. These types of things are so... There's a lot of nuance to it that you did there. You didn't just reach out and say, hey, can I hang with you? You said, I'm already going to be in these areas.
Not to say that I helped with his YouTube channel at all. But just reaching out and being like, hey, I am in Austin. What are you up to? Sends me his number, invites me to his house. These types of things are so... There's a lot of nuance to it that you did there. You didn't just reach out and say, hey, can I hang with you? You said, I'm already going to be in these areas.
And that's a weirdly important thing. The other thing... You and I were speaking to the same person last week, Blake, who actually is my mentor because I pay him to be my mentor. And you somehow were already talking to him. But we were talking about this topic in the mastermind last week.
And that's a weirdly important thing. The other thing... You and I were speaking to the same person last week, Blake, who actually is my mentor because I pay him to be my mentor. And you somehow were already talking to him. But we were talking about this topic in the mastermind last week.
And he said, one of the weirdest things with people who are very successful and very powerful is they give out their number so easily. And giving your number and just being like, hey, here's my number, like whatever. That is also something that a lot of people don't do, but it's actually super powerful.
And he said, one of the weirdest things with people who are very successful and very powerful is they give out their number so easily. And giving your number and just being like, hey, here's my number, like whatever. That is also something that a lot of people don't do, but it's actually super powerful.
And in the background here is someone that I've been messaging with who I never thought I would have the number of. Once you cross that boundary, once you deliver value or a compliment, or in your case, it's content, or it's like figuring out what they want and what they can resonate with. And then combine that with that with or without you energy.
And in the background here is someone that I've been messaging with who I never thought I would have the number of. Once you cross that boundary, once you deliver value or a compliment, or in your case, it's content, or it's like figuring out what they want and what they can resonate with. And then combine that with that with or without you energy.
It's not like me not meeting you is going to hold me back or anything. And then a little number on top. Those things seem to be some juicy elements of connecting with people who could be your mentors or not even mentors. Sometimes it's just people who can connect to you or people who you just really would love to meet.
It's not like me not meeting you is going to hold me back or anything. And then a little number on top. Those things seem to be some juicy elements of connecting with people who could be your mentors or not even mentors. Sometimes it's just people who can connect to you or people who you just really would love to meet.
And, and people are lazy about it, dude. People are so lazy. People reach out. I'm sure people reach out to you every day and they say, Hey, can we grab a coffee? Like, You're not trying to be mean. I guess you feel like, how do I even respond to that? It even feels sometimes a little bit insulting if you're a busy person. You're a busy person, Greg.
And, and people are lazy about it, dude. People are so lazy. People reach out. I'm sure people reach out to you every day and they say, Hey, can we grab a coffee? Like, You're not trying to be mean. I guess you feel like, how do I even respond to that? It even feels sometimes a little bit insulting if you're a busy person. You're a busy person, Greg.
And if someone just says, hey, can we grab a coffee? And you're like, who are you?
And if someone just says, hey, can we grab a coffee? And you're like, who are you?
Yeah. Greg, I have a topic for you. I have a question for you. And this is something I actually genuinely have been wondering. And there's probably a couple of different angles we can take on this. But I think one thing that one of the most valuable things I think your audience would love to know is how the hell do you get in touch with literally everyone on the planet?
Yeah. Greg, I have a topic for you. I have a question for you. And this is something I actually genuinely have been wondering. And there's probably a couple of different angles we can take on this. But I think one thing that one of the most valuable things I think your audience would love to know is how the hell do you get in touch with literally everyone on the planet?
Dude, you really hold back. You keep your story. You really hold stuff back. I can't believe that this is... I thought the end of the story was going to be you messaged him. The whole thing actually happened.
Dude, you really hold back. You keep your story. You really hold stuff back. I can't believe that this is... I thought the end of the story was going to be you messaged him. The whole thing actually happened.
I didn't want to go anywhere.
I didn't want to go anywhere.
I think that another thing here, I'm just trying to break apart the kind of principles here. You also, I sometimes draw this for people when I'm showing them the canvas strategy. If you're watching this, if you're not seeing this, it's basically a circle. This is where you are. You're on, you're at this part of your life. The Weezer guy is here and then here, all of his connections, right?
I think that another thing here, I'm just trying to break apart the kind of principles here. You also, I sometimes draw this for people when I'm showing them the canvas strategy. If you're watching this, if you're not seeing this, it's basically a circle. This is where you are. You're on, you're at this part of your life. The Weezer guy is here and then here, all of his connections, right?
And you like want to move up this ladder or whatever it is. But a lot of people are not humble enough to also realize that they are below somebody. And I think for me, one of the things and because it sounds weird to say it, it's like, I am below this person. It doesn't mean you're below them as a human. It just means that maybe they're ahead of you in certain parts of your life.
And you like want to move up this ladder or whatever it is. But a lot of people are not humble enough to also realize that they are below somebody. And I think for me, one of the things and because it sounds weird to say it, it's like, I am below this person. It doesn't mean you're below them as a human. It just means that maybe they're ahead of you in certain parts of your life.
And I think it's very difficult for people to be humble enough to assess where they are. And often in your case, what would have happened is you would have gone, if you were not humble and you didn't understand the laws of power, you would have gone there and talked about yourself for two hours.
And I think it's very difficult for people to be humble enough to assess where they are. And often in your case, what would have happened is you would have gone, if you were not humble and you didn't understand the laws of power, you would have gone there and talked about yourself for two hours.
But you understood that the dynamic stays in place, essentially, and that you still have to deliver value. And this is something that once you understand it, once you understand that there is this like dynamic in the world, you can really, really connect with a lot of very interesting people. I think.
But you understood that the dynamic stays in place, essentially, and that you still have to deliver value. And this is something that once you understand it, once you understand that there is this like dynamic in the world, you can really, really connect with a lot of very interesting people. I think.
getting too comfy with people, getting too cozy with people after you meet them the first time is often a way or getting too familiar and overstepping boundaries. That's like next level ninja shit to not do that when you actually get in the door.
getting too comfy with people, getting too cozy with people after you meet them the first time is often a way or getting too familiar and overstepping boundaries. That's like next level ninja shit to not do that when you actually get in the door.
Like everybody I know, every investor, every entrepreneur, every company owner that I end up working with already knows you before I meet them. How do you do networking? Like... I don't understand it. You're everywhere. You're everywhere all the time. How does it work?
Like everybody I know, every investor, every entrepreneur, every company owner that I end up working with already knows you before I meet them. How do you do networking? Like... I don't understand it. You're everywhere. You're everywhere all the time. How does it work?
I think as well, it's just another example is we're doing this podcast right now, which is going to give me extra exposure. We're doing it because I thought for a long time about how to bring value to you and your content universe. And I was reading your tweets and I was looking at your show and then I was looking at other people's shows and I was like,
I think as well, it's just another example is we're doing this podcast right now, which is going to give me extra exposure. We're doing it because I thought for a long time about how to bring value to you and your content universe. And I was reading your tweets and I was looking at your show and then I was looking at other people's shows and I was like,
I wonder if there's a way that I can just take some of the heavy lifting of maybe like an extra episode so that Greg can still grow his podcast. He can do his own advertising on the podcast. I can be in the background and I can still bring value while getting connection to you, learning a lot of stuff, but also getting connection to your audience.
I wonder if there's a way that I can just take some of the heavy lifting of maybe like an extra episode so that Greg can still grow his podcast. He can do his own advertising on the podcast. I can be in the background and I can still bring value while getting connection to you, learning a lot of stuff, but also getting connection to your audience.
I was joking about this earlier with my girlfriend. I was like, if I didn't understand this world, then if you think about how stupid it can be, right after this episode, I'm like, hey, dude, I'm just going to send you over an invoice for the work I put in for this.
I was joking about this earlier with my girlfriend. I was like, if I didn't understand this world, then if you think about how stupid it can be, right after this episode, I'm like, hey, dude, I'm just going to send you over an invoice for the work I put in for this.
just like this super short-term thinking when people play these games you know it's like oh hey actually now you have to pay me to do this totally even though i am getting a massive advantage because i have no audience that's also a thing if people are wondering like how do you grow an audience nobody listens to my podcast great like two weeks ago nobody was listening to my podcast i went on greg's podcast and now more a lot more people are listening to my podcast
just like this super short-term thinking when people play these games you know it's like oh hey actually now you have to pay me to do this totally even though i am getting a massive advantage because i have no audience that's also a thing if people are wondering like how do you grow an audience nobody listens to my podcast great like two weeks ago nobody was listening to my podcast i went on greg's podcast and now more a lot more people are listening to my podcast
but i also had to think about how to bring value to greg's life um instead of just being like hey dude you put me on my podcast there's a level of like you you just you have to have some level of understanding your position in the hierarchy of whatever it is you're trying to do um and that's very tricky for people their entitlement comes on very fast when people like Often someone will meet me.
but i also had to think about how to bring value to greg's life um instead of just being like hey dude you put me on my podcast there's a level of like you you just you have to have some level of understanding your position in the hierarchy of whatever it is you're trying to do um and that's very tricky for people their entitlement comes on very fast when people like Often someone will meet me.
They'll like put in some effort and then they're like super entitled immediately. Why didn't you hire me? Like what? What are you talking about? You know what I mean? Do you know what I mean?
They'll like put in some effort and then they're like super entitled immediately. Why didn't you hire me? Like what? What are you talking about? You know what I mean? Do you know what I mean?
I put on 1.5 X. People listen to this podcast.
I put on 1.5 X. People listen to this podcast.
Yeah. Your entire reputation.
Yeah. Your entire reputation.
And I also don't know if you noticed this, but when you asked me at the end of the podcast where people can find me, because we talked about your newsletter and all of that stuff, I actually didn't tell where people can find me. I asked people to go and write reviews for your podcast and your Spotify, and I didn't tell people where to find me at all.
And I also don't know if you noticed this, but when you asked me at the end of the podcast where people can find me, because we talked about your newsletter and all of that stuff, I actually didn't tell where people can find me. I asked people to go and write reviews for your podcast and your Spotify, and I didn't tell people where to find me at all.
And that's like, in my opinion, part of being valuable is also not just... fully taking advantage. You don't have to like squeeze every situation dry. You can just see where things go and enjoy them. Like I think there is something to that as well. I don't need anything to come out of this. It's an enjoyable experience.
And that's like, in my opinion, part of being valuable is also not just... fully taking advantage. You don't have to like squeeze every situation dry. You can just see where things go and enjoy them. Like I think there is something to that as well. I don't need anything to come out of this. It's an enjoyable experience.
By the way, side note, in the comments of the last YouTube video, people said something about us not looking at this, like looking everywhere. And now I'm recording in a camera that's over here. Like it couldn't be. I'm like, hey, how's it going, guys?
By the way, side note, in the comments of the last YouTube video, people said something about us not looking at this, like looking everywhere. And now I'm recording in a camera that's over here. Like it couldn't be. I'm like, hey, how's it going, guys?
And we're not professionals, okay? You need it more extreme. You need to make it more extreme so that it's clear. You need to put the camera behind your head.
And we're not professionals, okay? You need it more extreme. You need to make it more extreme so that it's clear. You need to put the camera behind your head.
Oh my God. We got to end it right there. Do you think people are going to be able to take actionable... Okay, I want to leave you with one thing. So if somebody today... Let's just pick Noah Kagan as an example. Somebody wanted to connect with Noah Kagan today, and they'd love to do it within the next three months, but they do not have... We haven't even talked about the idea of doing free work.
Oh my God. We got to end it right there. Do you think people are going to be able to take actionable... Okay, I want to leave you with one thing. So if somebody today... Let's just pick Noah Kagan as an example. Somebody wanted to connect with Noah Kagan today, and they'd love to do it within the next three months, but they do not have... We haven't even talked about the idea of doing free work.
We're not going to go into that today, but they don't have content out there. They don't have a social media platform. But they would love to work with someone like Noah Kagan, Kevin Rose, whatever, someone who's like influential. What would be some actionable steps they could take over the space of two weeks?
We're not going to go into that today, but they don't have content out there. They don't have a social media platform. But they would love to work with someone like Noah Kagan, Kevin Rose, whatever, someone who's like influential. What would be some actionable steps they could take over the space of two weeks?
And could that just be retweeting other people's stuff if you're not like...
And could that just be retweeting other people's stuff if you're not like...
It should be the person's own opinion.
It should be the person's own opinion.
And actually, just if you guys are listening to this and you're like, oh, easy for you guys to say because there's so much activity. I have been tweeting only for the last maybe three weeks and I get like one like per tweet. Like I am an example of the opposite of Greg where I don't really have a social media presence.
And actually, just if you guys are listening to this and you're like, oh, easy for you guys to say because there's so much activity. I have been tweeting only for the last maybe three weeks and I get like one like per tweet. Like I am an example of the opposite of Greg where I don't really have a social media presence.
And reaching out to people on Twitter has been so powerful in the last few weeks. I'm shocked that I have just not been doing it. So you're definitely, you don't have to be like, it doesn't have to look like people like your stuff for this to work. But I guess it does, it helps if you have a picture and stuff going on.
And reaching out to people on Twitter has been so powerful in the last few weeks. I'm shocked that I have just not been doing it. So you're definitely, you don't have to be like, it doesn't have to look like people like your stuff for this to work. But I guess it does, it helps if you have a picture and stuff going on.
From Jicecream?
From Jicecream?
Someone here, I remember one time somebody met me and they thought it was something even worse. So wait, is my username Jicecream? I thought that's just my handle. Isn't my name Jonathan Courtney on Twitter?
Someone here, I remember one time somebody met me and they thought it was something even worse. So wait, is my username Jicecream? I thought that's just my handle. Isn't my name Jonathan Courtney on Twitter?
You looking at my... Wait, so why would it be offensive? Jice cream. Is Jice... Is that like something dirty?
You looking at my... Wait, so why would it be offensive? Jice cream. Is Jice... Is that like something dirty?
It's true. I actually, so my name on Instagram is also J ice cream. It's, it's actually my Xbox gamer tag, which, you know, I wasn't ever thinking of becoming a business guy. And so this was my, like making my Xbox account when I was like 12 or something. Um, Yeah, I don't know if I can change it. I love it too much, J. Ice Cream.
It's true. I actually, so my name on Instagram is also J ice cream. It's, it's actually my Xbox gamer tag, which, you know, I wasn't ever thinking of becoming a business guy. And so this was my, like making my Xbox account when I was like 12 or something. Um, Yeah, I don't know if I can change it. I love it too much, J. Ice Cream.
The thing is, I'm trying to now become successful in spite of my name being J. Ice Cream. Okay, apart from that, is it okay to have posts which have not many likes?
The thing is, I'm trying to now become successful in spite of my name being J. Ice Cream. Okay, apart from that, is it okay to have posts which have not many likes?
Yes. Yes. That's what I've been trying to do. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. So that's step one is like, get yourself and would you start with one platform? Like, would you start with X?
Yes. Yes. That's what I've been trying to do. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. So that's step one is like, get yourself and would you start with one platform? Like, would you start with X?
Even though Twitter's dead, right? Because I heard two years ago that because Elon Musk took over, it's dead. So it doesn't exist anymore. Crazy that you're using it even though it's dead.
Even though Twitter's dead, right? Because I heard two years ago that because Elon Musk took over, it's dead. So it doesn't exist anymore. Crazy that you're using it even though it's dead.
Yeah, I definitely get more responses from people on X than anywhere else.
Yeah, I definitely get more responses from people on X than anywhere else.
Yes. Do you know the dream 100 concept? No. Okay, I'm not going to talk about it now, but if anyone wants to figure out how to... You can't just... Well, if you want... The Dream 100 concept is a... So you just said, like, choose 10 people who you'd want to meet and then set notifications for them.
Yes. Do you know the dream 100 concept? No. Okay, I'm not going to talk about it now, but if anyone wants to figure out how to... You can't just... Well, if you want... The Dream 100 concept is a... So you just said, like, choose 10 people who you'd want to meet and then set notifications for them.
There's this concept about growing a business where if you want to grow a business, one of the best ways to do it is by making a list of the 100 people who have access to the audience that you want.
There's this concept about growing a business where if you want to grow a business, one of the best ways to do it is by making a list of the 100 people who have access to the audience that you want.
and then in that so you have the list it's basically a google sheet you would create on the left would be the their name then you would have their all of their different social profiles uh and then you would have like you know the amount of people who are following them and then you have like a list of all the things that you think they want so if you're doing this by yourself dream 10 is probably better but you could create a google doc here
and then in that so you have the list it's basically a google sheet you would create on the left would be the their name then you would have their all of their different social profiles uh and then you would have like you know the amount of people who are following them and then you have like a list of all the things that you think they want so if you're doing this by yourself dream 10 is probably better but you could create a google doc here
where you're also when you're watching all their content you're collecting almost an uh a an archive of the things that they're interested in so you're creating your own profile and i'm sure someone will use ai to do it but yeah the the concept of the dream 100 thing is that you have a way then to track all the people you're reaching out to and apparently
where you're also when you're watching all their content you're collecting almost an uh a an archive of the things that they're interested in so you're creating your own profile and i'm sure someone will use ai to do it but yeah the the concept of the dream 100 thing is that you have a way then to track all the people you're reaching out to and apparently
If you actually reach out to 100 people, then maybe 20, 30 of the people will respond to you. And this is one of the best ways to get in front of the audience that you actually want to get in front of because you can get on their content, etc.
If you actually reach out to 100 people, then maybe 20, 30 of the people will respond to you. And this is one of the best ways to get in front of the audience that you actually want to get in front of because you can get on their content, etc.
But Dream 100 is something you can Google and watch videos about if you want to see a practical breakdown of even how to decide who you would want to reach out to. I just didn't want to take you off track.
But Dream 100 is something you can Google and watch videos about if you want to see a practical breakdown of even how to decide who you would want to reach out to. I just didn't want to take you off track.
Oh, no, I just didn't want to annoy your audience. And they're like, Jonathan keeps interrupting you.
Oh, no, I just didn't want to annoy your audience. And they're like, Jonathan keeps interrupting you.
No, dude, your YouTube comments are extremely kind and constructive, honestly.
No, dude, your YouTube comments are extremely kind and constructive, honestly.
Your YouTube comments are very, very constructive and I am responding to almost all of them.
Your YouTube comments are very, very constructive and I am responding to almost all of them.
Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So you would turn on the post notifications for the people that you would like to get in touch with. And every time they post, you essentially respond. Would you also say that like retweeting and then like quote posting? I don't even know what it's called, like quoting what they did. Would that count as a replying to what they do?
Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So you would turn on the post notifications for the people that you would like to get in touch with. And every time they post, you essentially respond. Would you also say that like retweeting and then like quote posting? I don't even know what it's called, like quoting what they did. Would that count as a replying to what they do?
Because then you're spreading their message to other people, to my one follower.
Because then you're spreading their message to other people, to my one follower.
Yeah, this, this definitely I've, I've been, I'm actually trying to get, um, I want this guy, a man who used to be the CEO. You probably know him. I should have just asked you. I want him to coach me a man, the ex CEO of, uh, AppSumo.
Yeah, this, this definitely I've, I've been, I'm actually trying to get, um, I want this guy, a man who used to be the CEO. You probably know him. I should have just asked you. I want him to coach me a man, the ex CEO of, uh, AppSumo.
And, uh, I've been, I've, I'm in his like waiting list and I'm, I'm like replying to all of his, and I'm jokingly saying, yeah, it's because I want you to coach me earlier. And I'm definitely getting noticed. If you know him, tell him to coach me.
And, uh, I've been, I've, I'm in his like waiting list and I'm, I'm like replying to all of his, and I'm jokingly saying, yeah, it's because I want you to coach me earlier. And I'm definitely getting noticed. If you know him, tell him to coach me.
Yeah, call him up. I want to pay him. I want to pay him and I can't pay him because he won't let me coach him.
Yeah, call him up. I want to pay him. I want to pay him and I can't pay him because he won't let me coach him.
And you cannot be entitled. That's the worst because you also don't know. Like sometimes someone will reach out to me, right? Um, on YouTube or LinkedIn or whatever. I'm not on X so much or on Instagram or they'll email the company and they won't get a response from me just because I don't see it. And then like a couple of weeks later they'll send me like an angry message.
And you cannot be entitled. That's the worst because you also don't know. Like sometimes someone will reach out to me, right? Um, on YouTube or LinkedIn or whatever. I'm not on X so much or on Instagram or they'll email the company and they won't get a response from me just because I don't see it. And then like a couple of weeks later they'll send me like an angry message.
I'm like, are you fucking serious? This is the first, that's also now the first time I'm seeing an interaction with this person. You know what I mean? Like, that's the thing you gotta be, you gotta be really okay with silence.
I'm like, are you fucking serious? This is the first, that's also now the first time I'm seeing an interaction with this person. You know what I mean? Like, that's the thing you gotta be, you gotta be really okay with silence.
You gotta, when I'm reaching out to, when I'm in LA and reaching out to people who are like way above me, if they ghost me, if they don't respond to me, uh, the best thing I've ever done is just not pushing and not being irritating. And then like the next time I'm there, sometimes I meet them and it's just that they were away.
You gotta, when I'm reaching out to, when I'm in LA and reaching out to people who are like way above me, if they ghost me, if they don't respond to me, uh, the best thing I've ever done is just not pushing and not being irritating. And then like the next time I'm there, sometimes I meet them and it's just that they were away.
Just don't, uh, I think that's very important to be very okay with silence and to be very okay with rejection and,
Just don't, uh, I think that's very important to be very okay with silence and to be very okay with rejection and,
and not be entitled because they might change their mind a couple of years later if you're doing something more interesting i also think it's okay to follow up so for example i'm trying to do you know colin and samir do you know who that is of course yeah i know them personally no i don't not at all i do know of them but i don't know them personally at all are you trying to get on their show i know them personally
and not be entitled because they might change their mind a couple of years later if you're doing something more interesting i also think it's okay to follow up so for example i'm trying to do you know colin and samir do you know who that is of course yeah i know them personally no i don't not at all i do know of them but i don't know them personally at all are you trying to get on their show i know them personally
But just were you, they were there and you were like, oh, I'm going to be there anyway. As in you went out of your way to meet them.
But just were you, they were there and you were like, oh, I'm going to be there anyway. As in you went out of your way to meet them.
Yeah, of course. But you, you with or without you'd them, you Bono'd them.
Yeah, of course. But you, you with or without you'd them, you Bono'd them.
I have a little hack on maybe, maybe something different you could have done there. And you're better at this than me. So take this with a pinch of salt, Greg's audience. There's someone who I'm, so I'm running this mastermind. Don't worry, I'm not going to sell it on your podcast already sold out. I'm running this mastermind in LA and there's the speaker. I want to, I want him to speak at it.
I have a little hack on maybe, maybe something different you could have done there. And you're better at this than me. So take this with a pinch of salt, Greg's audience. There's someone who I'm, so I'm running this mastermind. Don't worry, I'm not going to sell it on your podcast already sold out. I'm running this mastermind in LA and there's the speaker. I want to, I want him to speak at it.
I won't say his name on the podcast right now because I'm still working on it. um he agreed like he was like i'm in no problem let's do this um we agreed on everything and then uh he was like i just need to chat with my wife to to make sure that like the dates are good and i didn't get any response then for a little bit and so i followed up and i was like hey just uh
I won't say his name on the podcast right now because I'm still working on it. um he agreed like he was like i'm in no problem let's do this um we agreed on everything and then uh he was like i just need to chat with my wife to to make sure that like the dates are good and i didn't get any response then for a little bit and so i followed up and i was like hey just uh
you know, confirming, are you still in? But I didn't get a response. And then so I spent I sent another email just saying, hey, just just checking in. And he said, oh, absolutely. Just I'm still in. I'm still excited. I just need to really make sure of my life. And then I was like, wait a minute.
you know, confirming, are you still in? But I didn't get a response. And then so I spent I sent another email just saying, hey, just just checking in. And he said, oh, absolutely. Just I'm still in. I'm still excited. I just need to really make sure of my life. And then I was like, wait a minute.
This is an opportunity for me to make this easier for this guy, because clearly he's way like he's just got a different life to me. This person has way more going on. And also, I want him to speak at my event. I actually really need him to speak at my event. It would be amazing for him to speak at my event. And so I wrote him an email and his response to it was, I love that.
This is an opportunity for me to make this easier for this guy, because clearly he's way like he's just got a different life to me. This person has way more going on. And also, I want him to speak at my event. I actually really need him to speak at my event. It would be amazing for him to speak at my event. And so I wrote him an email and his response to it was, I love that.
And we'll tell you about the email in the next step. No, I'm just kidding. The email I sent him was, OK, how about this? The event is happening anyway. And how about two weeks beforehand? I'll just reach out to you again and see if you want to come so you don't have to think about the scheduling. And he was like that was the thing he was super excited about.
And we'll tell you about the email in the next step. No, I'm just kidding. The email I sent him was, OK, how about this? The event is happening anyway. And how about two weeks beforehand? I'll just reach out to you again and see if you want to come so you don't have to think about the scheduling. And he was like that was the thing he was super excited about.
A lot of the things that I noticed about people who are very important and who are kind of higher up in this hierarchy Dude, they have so... I mean, the amount of stuff you and I have going on. And I mean, I am like here in the business world. You're here in the business world. And maybe Colin and Samir are here. I don't know. Kevin Rose is like in space. These people have so much going on.
A lot of the things that I noticed about people who are very important and who are kind of higher up in this hierarchy Dude, they have so... I mean, the amount of stuff you and I have going on. And I mean, I am like here in the business world. You're here in the business world. And maybe Colin and Samir are here. I don't know. Kevin Rose is like in space. These people have so much going on.
It's unimaginable. So if you can just make it so easy. And they often, I think, like spontaneous and impromptu ways of doing things. So I wonder two things that I would do if I was trying to get this guest. on my podcast. And I had a couple of these bigger guests on my podcast before and I had this challenge. One is
It's unimaginable. So if you can just make it so easy. And they often, I think, like spontaneous and impromptu ways of doing things. So I wonder two things that I would do if I was trying to get this guest. on my podcast. And I had a couple of these bigger guests on my podcast before and I had this challenge. One is
finding out without them even knowing who their assistant is and just going around them and trying to see if I can schedule it with them.
finding out without them even knowing who their assistant is and just going around them and trying to see if I can schedule it with them.
Uh, the other thing is literally just having a slot, like, but, but soon like a slot that's happening in the same day and reaching out to them in two weeks and being like, Hey, I actually have like a slot today, tomorrow, the next day in the next 72 hours, often I noticed that people like this
Uh, the other thing is literally just having a slot, like, but, but soon like a slot that's happening in the same day and reaching out to them in two weeks and being like, Hey, I actually have like a slot today, tomorrow, the next day in the next 72 hours, often I noticed that people like this
tend to like to do things sort of last minute because it doesn't have to add on to their really chaotic schedule. It's just, oh, I'll just put it in right now as it was today with you, right? We were chatting, we were messaging and I was like, how about like today? It just, it sometimes works out better when you do these things on a very short scale, I have found.
tend to like to do things sort of last minute because it doesn't have to add on to their really chaotic schedule. It's just, oh, I'll just put it in right now as it was today with you, right? We were chatting, we were messaging and I was like, how about like today? It just, it sometimes works out better when you do these things on a very short scale, I have found.
Yeah. Before people start reaching out to you, Greg, just to make sure you actually remember the things in the episode. If you just reach out to Greg and say, can I pick your brain? Nothing's going to happen. You know what I mean? That's not the point of this episode. Make sure you didn't listen to it on 10x speed.
Yeah. Before people start reaching out to you, Greg, just to make sure you actually remember the things in the episode. If you just reach out to Greg and say, can I pick your brain? Nothing's going to happen. You know what I mean? That's not the point of this episode. Make sure you didn't listen to it on 10x speed.
There's probably some bits in here that would help you get in touch with someone like Greg. But yeah, dude, that's it. I hope that's valuable for your audience.
There's probably some bits in here that would help you get in touch with someone like Greg. But yeah, dude, that's it. I hope that's valuable for your audience.
There's a great meme that maybe your team can pull up. I posted it on my, I don't know if I can share my screen right now, so I'll just kind of post it to you.
There's a great meme that maybe your team can pull up. I posted it on my, I don't know if I can share my screen right now, so I'll just kind of post it to you.
It's another experiment. It's not like a news topic. It's not like a tweet. It's like a general thing that I see you doing out in the world that I think some of your audience would find valuable.
It's another experiment. It's not like a news topic. It's not like a tweet. It's like a general thing that I see you doing out in the world that I think some of your audience would find valuable.
Give me some likes. Give me some attention out there on Jicecream.
Give me some likes. Give me some attention out there on Jicecream.
I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, if no one likes it, we're not doing it.
I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, if no one likes it, we're not doing it.
Yeah. The lesson is if no one likes it, don't do it.
Yeah. The lesson is if no one likes it, don't do it.
Yeah, I think people should also know that this does not replace the core podcast. This is sort of like Greg's still going to interview people and give you that other stuff you like. This is more like a BTS, you know, behind the scenes of like, Greg has a crazy guest on his podcast. How does Greg contact these people?
Yeah, I think people should also know that this does not replace the core podcast. This is sort of like Greg's still going to interview people and give you that other stuff you like. This is more like a BTS, you know, behind the scenes of like, Greg has a crazy guest on his podcast. How does Greg contact these people?
That's kind of what I was thinking, you know, like in my mind, I was thinking in here.
That's kind of what I was thinking, you know, like in my mind, I was thinking in here.
I'm trying to like push my temples to show that it's my brain.
I'm trying to like push my temples to show that it's my brain.
That's what I want to talk about. So can I pick your brain on a few different angles of this and try to be the voice of your audience here? Yes. Okay, first of all, most people, the first thing they say, as you already said, is, oh, easy for you to say because you have a big audience.
That's what I want to talk about. So can I pick your brain on a few different angles of this and try to be the voice of your audience here? Yes. Okay, first of all, most people, the first thing they say, as you already said, is, oh, easy for you to say because you have a big audience.
So now let's assume we're both talking about this from the perspective of people who started out doing this without audiences. And then the second thing is, okay, the people you're reaching out to are probably already very successful. Um, usually in the case that when we're reaching out to people, they're a lot more successful than us.
So now let's assume we're both talking about this from the perspective of people who started out doing this without audiences. And then the second thing is, okay, the people you're reaching out to are probably already very successful. Um, usually in the case that when we're reaching out to people, they're a lot more successful than us.
At least I know for me, when I reach out to people, they're more successful. Um, and so they don't need a lot of the things you can provide. How do you figure out how to deliver value to someone who's already, let's say 20 years ahead of you in the entrepreneurial journey, even if you don't have a large audience, for example, like what would be your, what was your process?
At least I know for me, when I reach out to people, they're more successful. Um, and so they don't need a lot of the things you can provide. How do you figure out how to deliver value to someone who's already, let's say 20 years ahead of you in the entrepreneurial journey, even if you don't have a large audience, for example, like what would be your, what was your process?
How do you figure out how to deliver value to someone who's already, let's say, 20 years ahead of you in the entrepreneurial journey?
How do you figure out how to deliver value to someone who's already, let's say, 20 years ahead of you in the entrepreneurial journey?
I didn't know this was public, oh God.
I didn't know this was public, oh God.
Yeah, let's give some examples. I'll give one from a perspective of someone who had actually literally no following. Back in 2016, I was reading, so I'm running a design agency. And I was reading a blog from GV, Google Ventures. They had this blog and it was about, they were talking about this thing called design sprints. This guy called Jake Knapp, who was blogging about it.
Yeah, let's give some examples. I'll give one from a perspective of someone who had actually literally no following. Back in 2016, I was reading, so I'm running a design agency. And I was reading a blog from GV, Google Ventures. They had this blog and it was about, they were talking about this thing called design sprints. This guy called Jake Knapp, who was blogging about it.
He was kind of like this person who I was like, oh my God, this is like the Silicon Valley designer that I would love to meet, who like is doing all the things I would love to do and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Eventually he wrote this book called Sprint, became a New York Times bestseller. And I was still like, oh, my God, this is this is amazing. Like I'm reading this book. It's so cool.
He was kind of like this person who I was like, oh my God, this is like the Silicon Valley designer that I would love to meet, who like is doing all the things I would love to do and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Eventually he wrote this book called Sprint, became a New York Times bestseller. And I was still like, oh, my God, this is this is amazing. Like I'm reading this book. It's so cool.
I'm here in Berlin. I have no Internet presence or anything like that. And again, I'm just like this, you know, random person living in Berlin.
I'm here in Berlin. I have no Internet presence or anything like that. And again, I'm just like this, you know, random person living in Berlin.
I was trying to figure out what could be a way that I could reach out and hang out with someone like Jake without just being like, hey, can we grab a coffee? And I read this article from Ryan Holiday. It's called the Canvas Strategy. Have you ever heard of this?
I was trying to figure out what could be a way that I could reach out and hang out with someone like Jake without just being like, hey, can we grab a coffee? And I read this article from Ryan Holiday. It's called the Canvas Strategy. Have you ever heard of this?
it's like a systematic way to figure out how to deliver value to people who are ahead of you. And one of the things it talks about is that if you're the person who can clear the path for those in front of you, you can also kind of choose the direction, which is a cool way of thinking about it. And so what I actually did is... First of all, I had to come up with an excuse to be in San Francisco.
it's like a systematic way to figure out how to deliver value to people who are ahead of you. And one of the things it talks about is that if you're the person who can clear the path for those in front of you, you can also kind of choose the direction, which is a cool way of thinking about it. And so what I actually did is... First of all, I had to come up with an excuse to be in San Francisco.
So I offered to talk at this kind of design and tech conference in Silicon Valley. This was an offer to do this for free, of course. And then I was in the region. And what I did is I reached out to Jake and I said, I have an idea of something to pitch you that I think would benefit you spreading the word of Sprint all around the world. It would also make you money.
So I offered to talk at this kind of design and tech conference in Silicon Valley. This was an offer to do this for free, of course. And then I was in the region. And what I did is I reached out to Jake and I said, I have an idea of something to pitch you that I think would benefit you spreading the word of Sprint all around the world. It would also make you money.
And I've taken care of like 90% of the details already. And he was like, cool. So I went to the GV office and pitched him this idea of traveling around the world and teaching design sprints. But I would use my marketing skills to sell out the event so that he wouldn't have to think about it. And I would take on the really annoying part of setting up the locations and doing all of that stuff.
And I've taken care of like 90% of the details already. And he was like, cool. So I went to the GV office and pitched him this idea of traveling around the world and teaching design sprints. But I would use my marketing skills to sell out the event so that he wouldn't have to think about it. And I would take on the really annoying part of setting up the locations and doing all of that stuff.
We're doing this again? Are you giving it a name yet? Is it Sipping Time?
We're doing this again? Are you giving it a name yet? Is it Sipping Time?
He was like, yes. And this, first of all, we became really good friends. And this opened up. So many doors to me that I could never have imagined. A lot of the Silicon Valley clients that we work with today are because of that relationship that I built with Jake. But initially, instead of just being like, hey, can we grab a coffee?
He was like, yes. And this, first of all, we became really good friends. And this opened up. So many doors to me that I could never have imagined. A lot of the Silicon Valley clients that we work with today are because of that relationship that I built with Jake. But initially, instead of just being like, hey, can we grab a coffee?
I really deeply thought about what types of things he might find interesting and thought about like, what's going to be really annoying if he wants to go and teach this around the world? Locations, filling those locations. And so I just presented an option to him that was super easy and cleared the path for him spreading the knowledge of Sprint around the world.
I really deeply thought about what types of things he might find interesting and thought about like, what's going to be really annoying if he wants to go and teach this around the world? Locations, filling those locations. And so I just presented an option to him that was super easy and cleared the path for him spreading the knowledge of Sprint around the world.
And that was a cold, pretty much a cold outreach from me to the team at GV. I didn't even have Jake's email address. I just emailed GV. And this is the kind of thing I do all the time. What's maybe one or two examples from you? So...
And that was a cold, pretty much a cold outreach from me to the team at GV. I didn't even have Jake's email address. I just emailed GV. And this is the kind of thing I do all the time. What's maybe one or two examples from you? So...
Hey, everyone. I'm here to ask Greg questions. The things that maybe you've been asking him on comments and Twitter are things you've been wondering about. And I think this is the show where occasionally, depending on when Greg wants to do it, he's the one being interviewed and not guests being interviewed. You know what I mean?
Hey, everyone. I'm here to ask Greg questions. The things that maybe you've been asking him on comments and Twitter are things you've been wondering about. And I think this is the show where occasionally, depending on when Greg wants to do it, he's the one being interviewed and not guests being interviewed. You know what I mean?
Get a new name, but it's okay.
Get a new name, but it's okay.
Oh, that's good.
Oh, that's good.
Nah, it's shit. I don't like it. Nah. Nah, it's shit. I thought about it again. I don't like it.
Nah, it's shit. I don't like it. Nah. Nah, it's shit. I thought about it again. I don't like it.
Mr. Rivers Cuomo.
Mr. Rivers Cuomo.
My eight sleep hates when I do this.
My eight sleep hates when I do this.
Fuck, man. There's so many things you just said that we need to talk to your audience about here. That's amazing. Two things. One, you did something that I don't even know if you know there's a label for. There's this when you're reaching out to people who are, let's say, who in this case, you were trying to reach up to this person.
Fuck, man. There's so many things you just said that we need to talk to your audience about here. That's amazing. Two things. One, you did something that I don't even know if you know there's a label for. There's this when you're reaching out to people who are, let's say, who in this case, you were trying to reach up to this person.
There's this concept, and I think it was Daniel Priestley, again, I keep referencing this guy, who came up with this concept of with or without you energy.
There's this concept, and I think it was Daniel Priestley, again, I keep referencing this guy, who came up with this concept of with or without you energy.
With or without you... That's true. I didn't actually think about that. That's probably where it came from. So this idea of with or without you energy, when you reach out to someone, you don't want to be like... What's his name again? Not Bono. What's his name? John Rossman? John... Whatever. The Wheatus guy, right? Wheatus? Weezer? Weezer? Rivers Cuomo? The guy... Rivers... John Waters?
With or without you... That's true. I didn't actually think about that. That's probably where it came from. So this idea of with or without you energy, when you reach out to someone, you don't want to be like... What's his name again? Not Bono. What's his name? John Rossman? John... Whatever. The Wheatus guy, right? Wheatus? Weezer? Weezer? Rivers Cuomo? The guy... Rivers... John Waters?
I watched the episode we did that came out on Sunday. I was looking at the comments and I forgot we talked about this constipation thing. We talked about doing the reverse Brian Johnson where you try to get your age markers up as high as possible so you die as early as possible. I think that's going to be game-changing for some people.
I watched the episode we did that came out on Sunday. I was looking at the comments and I forgot we talked about this constipation thing. We talked about doing the reverse Brian Johnson where you try to get your age markers up as high as possible so you die as early as possible. I think that's going to be game-changing for some people.
All right. Like... Okay. So... So you reach out to Rivers. And if you were like, hey, love your music, whatever, love your art. Can I come visit you? He'd probably be like, go. That's weird. But if you already say that... The important thing is you're kind of like, I am there. That is something I already do. And it would be something that is just on my way. It's on my journey.
All right. Like... Okay. So... So you reach out to Rivers. And if you were like, hey, love your music, whatever, love your art. Can I come visit you? He'd probably be like, go. That's weird. But if you already say that... The important thing is you're kind of like, I am there. That is something I already do. And it would be something that is just on my way. It's on my journey.
That makes it seem less intense for people. One example of this for me... It's a bit weird to mention this online or on the podcast, but I think he wouldn't mind it. I really wanted to meet Noah Kagan and just saying, I'm in Austin. Not like a week before or two weeks before. Just, I'm here right now. And I was also looking around what he's looking for. He wanted help with his YouTube channel.
That makes it seem less intense for people. One example of this for me... It's a bit weird to mention this online or on the podcast, but I think he wouldn't mind it. I really wanted to meet Noah Kagan and just saying, I'm in Austin. Not like a week before or two weeks before. Just, I'm here right now. And I was also looking around what he's looking for. He wanted help with his YouTube channel.
See that? You see that shit? So it's a collaboration between Panic and what do you call them? Teenage Engineering, the company that I have like every product of. And it's just such a cute, cool thing for Panic to do. It took them a very long time to make it. It's like a passion project, but it sells like a lot. I don't know if you know about Panic, but they do like... They make this console.
See that? You see that shit? So it's a collaboration between Panic and what do you call them? Teenage Engineering, the company that I have like every product of. And it's just such a cute, cool thing for Panic to do. It took them a very long time to make it. It's like a passion project, but it sells like a lot. I don't know if you know about Panic, but they do like... They make this console.
So just giving people like the basic package of meta ads and simple Google search ads, it can be a game changer for these people. And if you're taking a small cut of every single one of those sales,
So just giving people like the basic package of meta ads and simple Google search ads, it can be a game changer for these people. And if you're taking a small cut of every single one of those sales,
I know someone else who's doing this as well and he's doing pretty well and he's also not douchey and he's a bit more like bit more in the selling, like the spiritual events and stuff like that, like retreats, things like this. I don't know. I feel my brain is a bit muggy. I don't know if I'm making, am I making sense?
I know someone else who's doing this as well and he's doing pretty well and he's also not douchey and he's a bit more like bit more in the selling, like the spiritual events and stuff like that, like retreats, things like this. I don't know. I feel my brain is a bit muggy. I don't know if I'm making, am I making sense?
I'm also sweaty.
I'm also sweaty.
Software as a slug, wasn't it?
Software as a slug, wasn't it?
Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that I know what you're talking about.
Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that I know what you're talking about.
As if it's something to be proud of.
As if it's something to be proud of.
I hear it all the time, dude. You're constantly hearing it. I hear it all the fucking time. And I'm like, yeah, that's because you're stupid. That you could have six million ARRs.
I hear it all the time, dude. You're constantly hearing it. I hear it all the fucking time. And I'm like, yeah, that's because you're stupid. That you could have six million ARRs.
I don't want to say your friend is stupid.
I don't want to say your friend is stupid.
take a lot of the Silicon Valley status symbols and try to apply these status symbols to small businesses. I think this is what Jason Freed is good at kind of cutting out and getting through the bullshit.
take a lot of the Silicon Valley status symbols and try to apply these status symbols to small businesses. I think this is what Jason Freed is good at kind of cutting out and getting through the bullshit.
A lot of these status symbols, like not running ads, saying Facebook is dead, saying Meta is dead, are totally relevant when you're trying to be, when the status game in Silicon Valley and the status game in startups is to work on like the cutting edge stuff.
A lot of these status symbols, like not running ads, saying Facebook is dead, saying Meta is dead, are totally relevant when you're trying to be, when the status game in Silicon Valley and the status game in startups is to work on like the cutting edge stuff.
But if you're working on doing something that's like running a yoga retreat or running a creator's retreat or trying to sell cups or whatever it is, you don't need to play those types of status games. And in fact, they might actually hurt you. Like trying to build a massive...
But if you're working on doing something that's like running a yoga retreat or running a creator's retreat or trying to sell cups or whatever it is, you don't need to play those types of status games. And in fact, they might actually hurt you. Like trying to build a massive...
personal brand or a massive like crazy like trying to do what Liquid Death did but for your tiny yoga retreat or something isn't going to necessarily apply without having loads of funding and all these other things. I think ads are just such an amazing easy way to start for most people. I also know it because I run a community which has like a couple of thousand people in it
personal brand or a massive like crazy like trying to do what Liquid Death did but for your tiny yoga retreat or something isn't going to necessarily apply without having loads of funding and all these other things. I think ads are just such an amazing easy way to start for most people. I also know it because I run a community which has like a couple of thousand people in it
We teach people also, hey, you know, we're teaching them facilitation, but we realize after a while, well, they need to get clients. So we need to teach them some basics. And when people run ads into a simple funnel, they get call bookings. And when they get call bookings, they get clients. The end. It's as simple as that. When you're a one person show or a small team, ads are so, so helpful.
We teach people also, hey, you know, we're teaching them facilitation, but we realize after a while, well, they need to get clients. So we need to teach them some basics. And when people run ads into a simple funnel, they get call bookings. And when they get call bookings, they get clients. The end. It's as simple as that. When you're a one person show or a small team, ads are so, so helpful.
When you can't do some massive branding campaign and get on TV and do billboards and stuff.
When you can't do some massive branding campaign and get on TV and do billboards and stuff.
They also publish a lot of different video games. They're like an aspirational company to me. I love companies that are just like doing lots of weird stuff.
They also publish a lot of different video games. They're like an aspirational company to me. I love companies that are just like doing lots of weird stuff.
I agree. In most cases, I agree with you. And what we do is we... Because our audience, again, is older. At the event that your CEO was at, I think he was probably the youngest person there. And he's in his 30s or something. So our audience... And he's in his 70s. He's in his 70s, exactly.
I agree. In most cases, I agree with you. And what we do is we... Because our audience, again, is older. At the event that your CEO was at, I think he was probably the youngest person there. And he's in his 30s or something. So our audience... And he's in his 70s. He's in his 70s, exactly.
Like just due to the price range, like our in-person events cost like 11,000 something dollars. We are aiming for like generally it's senior people at corporates and consultants coming to our events.
Like just due to the price range, like our in-person events cost like 11,000 something dollars. We are aiming for like generally it's senior people at corporates and consultants coming to our events.
i don't mean literally senior people i don't mean senior senior uh although actually yeah the range the range of ages at our last event was from 20 25 to 76 not too bad huh not too bad um what was i trying to say fuck is i trying to say you're you're losing your memory in your old age Dude, I've had such a crazy last like six weeks. My brain is done. I need a break.
i don't mean literally senior people i don't mean senior senior uh although actually yeah the range the range of ages at our last event was from 20 25 to 76 not too bad huh not too bad um what was i trying to say fuck is i trying to say you're you're losing your memory in your old age Dude, I've had such a crazy last like six weeks. My brain is done. I need a break.
I can't get a break until like the 3rd of August, but I'm definitely at the point now where I'm like, I actually need a break.
I can't get a break until like the 3rd of August, but I'm definitely at the point now where I'm like, I actually need a break.
Jason was on the pod.
Jason was on the pod.
But I think I was talking about ads. Fucking ads, all right? Fuck it.
But I think I was talking about ads. Fucking ads, all right? Fuck it.
There was an earthquake while I was in LA, by the way. Oh, are you okay? I was making deals while this was happening. I just ignored it. To be honest, I actually just didn't. So I was on a call. I was walking on the beach. I didn't feel it. But if I had felt it, I would have totally freaked out. I would have like cried or something.
There was an earthquake while I was in LA, by the way. Oh, are you okay? I was making deals while this was happening. I just ignored it. To be honest, I actually just didn't. So I was on a call. I was walking on the beach. I didn't feel it. But if I had felt it, I would have totally freaked out. I would have like cried or something.
We had like a WhatsApp group for all the people who came to our event and they were like posting about it. But yeah, so like, let me close this one up. It is, I remember what I was talking about. It is like this kind of form of pride. It's a status symbol to not run ads.
We had like a WhatsApp group for all the people who came to our event and they were like posting about it. But yeah, so like, let me close this one up. It is, I remember what I was talking about. It is like this kind of form of pride. It's a status symbol to not run ads.
Fine, if you wanna be, if you're already like, if you've already got funding, if you've already got some angel investment, or if you're just like, have a huge personal brand oh yeah no dude I remember you were saying first post on you know first post on social media before ads and I agree with this the only thing is sometimes people I agree that this is the best way to do it.
Fine, if you wanna be, if you're already like, if you've already got funding, if you've already got some angel investment, or if you're just like, have a huge personal brand oh yeah no dude I remember you were saying first post on you know first post on social media before ads and I agree with this the only thing is sometimes people I agree that this is the best way to do it.
We're very aligned on that.
We're very aligned on that.
In the best case scenario, you're able to test things out in an organic environment and even just getting a feel for the way you write and practicing. So we tell people and our people to practice on LinkedIn just because that's where they happen to hang out.
In the best case scenario, you're able to test things out in an organic environment and even just getting a feel for the way you write and practicing. So we tell people and our people to practice on LinkedIn just because that's where they happen to hang out.
Running ads, though, I think in itself is worth learning just as a discipline, just because when you get that thing you want to sell, you don't want to be feeling helpless and just like, oh, there's nothing I can do now. I just have to wait and beg people to buy my thing or come to my thing. I love the idea of just being able to put money into the machine. The machine finds the people for you.
Running ads, though, I think in itself is worth learning just as a discipline, just because when you get that thing you want to sell, you don't want to be feeling helpless and just like, oh, there's nothing I can do now. I just have to wait and beg people to buy my thing or come to my thing. I love the idea of just being able to put money into the machine. The machine finds the people for you.
Yes, Jason is great. We actually just moved from using Slack, Asana, and Notion back to using Basecamp after a four-year break. And it is honestly refreshing. I started to have the feeling that my company was becoming like a chat room, basically. We were just on Slack all day. You just open Slack and you have all these red dots. And what I presented to my team last Monday, two weeks ago, was...
Yes, Jason is great. We actually just moved from using Slack, Asana, and Notion back to using Basecamp after a four-year break. And it is honestly refreshing. I started to have the feeling that my company was becoming like a chat room, basically. We were just on Slack all day. You just open Slack and you have all these red dots. And what I presented to my team last Monday, two weeks ago, was...
And then you can figure out how you're going to convert them, which is another whole thing. But I do think you're right. If you can do both, it's even better. But I just think that discipline or knowing someone who can do it, knowing someone who can help you run these things and demystify it is great.
And then you can figure out how you're going to convert them, which is another whole thing. But I do think you're right. If you can do both, it's even better. But I just think that discipline or knowing someone who can do it, knowing someone who can help you run these things and demystify it is great.
And becoming the type of person who can help other people do that, not huge startups, but small businesses. I think it's a no brainer.
And becoming the type of person who can help other people do that, not huge startups, but small businesses. I think it's a no brainer.
Well, we definitely always... We think about it more like return on ad spent, essentially. So our ROAS. And we're aiming... We're basically aiming for... Okay, we spent... $1, we want to make $1.50 back, right? And we have our funnel laid out essentially in every step. So we'll have a funnel. We'll have like 12 steps, 12 different things that are going on.
Well, we definitely always... We think about it more like return on ad spent, essentially. So our ROAS. And we're aiming... We're basically aiming for... Okay, we spent... $1, we want to make $1.50 back, right? And we have our funnel laid out essentially in every step. So we'll have a funnel. We'll have like 12 steps, 12 different things that are going on.
And we're constantly, constantly tweaking it. So like our workshop or master funnel, which is our kind of most successful program, We have been tweaking and poking at this funnel to increase conversions for four years now, since November 2020. But it's not just landing page conversion rate. It's sales calls. It's tweaking the video on the second page. It's the survey. We're constantly tweaking it.
And we're constantly, constantly tweaking it. So like our workshop or master funnel, which is our kind of most successful program, We have been tweaking and poking at this funnel to increase conversions for four years now, since November 2020. But it's not just landing page conversion rate. It's sales calls. It's tweaking the video on the second page. It's the survey. We're constantly tweaking it.
So the answer to the question is we obsess about it, but we don't obsess about it in the very beginning. We get the funnel out there. And then we can really quickly see which things are broken, which things make no sense. But yeah, a funnel from day one to day 100 usually looks pretty different. Or a landing page.
So the answer to the question is we obsess about it, but we don't obsess about it in the very beginning. We get the funnel out there. And then we can really quickly see which things are broken, which things make no sense. But yeah, a funnel from day one to day 100 usually looks pretty different. Or a landing page.
I'd love to do that if it's not too boring.
I'd love to do that if it's not too boring.
I think when you're learning a new thing, when I'm learning a new thing, the best way for me to learn it is to have one very specific example thing that I can use as my like... I'm going to... It's like... I don't know if you're looking at a... I'm trying to think of a good analogy for this. Maybe I don't need an analogy.
I think when you're learning a new thing, when I'm learning a new thing, the best way for me to learn it is to have one very specific example thing that I can use as my like... I'm going to... It's like... I don't know if you're looking at a... I'm trying to think of a good analogy for this. Maybe I don't need an analogy.
When I got into funnels, the best way for me to learn funnels was finding someone else's funnel I really liked and funnel hacking it. Essentially... signing up to every single part of it, screenshotting every single page, looking at all the emails, screenshotting all those, printing out the entire thing, laying it all out and trying to understand what the hell is going on here.
When I got into funnels, the best way for me to learn funnels was finding someone else's funnel I really liked and funnel hacking it. Essentially... signing up to every single part of it, screenshotting every single page, looking at all the emails, screenshotting all those, printing out the entire thing, laying it all out and trying to understand what the hell is going on here.
Like, why is this happening? And then this happening and then this happening. So for me, one of the first types of funnels that I got really interested in was called a VSL funnel, which is a video sales letter funnel. And it has, um, I'll just draw the thing. I'm going to draw like the basics of this funnel. So this funnel for us.
Like, why is this happening? And then this happening and then this happening. So for me, one of the first types of funnels that I got really interested in was called a VSL funnel, which is a video sales letter funnel. And it has, um, I'll just draw the thing. I'm going to draw like the basics of this funnel. So this funnel for us.
So this is cheesy, but we go to this very cheesy but fun event called Funnel Hacking Live, which I've told people about before. And this year, I hope I'm not over. I hope it actually happens or else this will be kind of embarrassing. But we're picking up an award for having our first $10 million funnel. And so I'll draw out our $10 million funnel.
So this is cheesy, but we go to this very cheesy but fun event called Funnel Hacking Live, which I've told people about before. And this year, I hope I'm not over. I hope it actually happens or else this will be kind of embarrassing. But we're picking up an award for having our first $10 million funnel. And so I'll draw out our $10 million funnel.
I'll try to describe it. I'll draw the main funnel. The first page you create is called an opt-in page. So this is basically a page that offers someone who is interested in the topic something. And in a VSL funnel, that something is a free training video. So let's say for us, we want to sell a $7,500 facilitation program, which is like a combination of self-paced videos and actual live coaching.
I'll try to describe it. I'll draw the main funnel. The first page you create is called an opt-in page. So this is basically a page that offers someone who is interested in the topic something. And in a VSL funnel, that something is a free training video. So let's say for us, we want to sell a $7,500 facilitation program, which is like a combination of self-paced videos and actual live coaching.
Let's not become a company that talks about doing stuff all the time and talks about making stuff all the time. And let's just go back to being a company that makes stuff. And so, yeah, I feel like Basecamp's interface is more built for just working on projects instead of talking about working on projects. In fact, it's actually quite hard to just have open dialogues within Basecamp, the product.
Let's not become a company that talks about doing stuff all the time and talks about making stuff all the time. And let's just go back to being a company that makes stuff. And so, yeah, I feel like Basecamp's interface is more built for just working on projects instead of talking about working on projects. In fact, it's actually quite hard to just have open dialogues within Basecamp, the product.
So we want to sell that. And so what we offer them, we don't sell them that first. We don't even tell them about that first. Our Facebook ad is selling a one hour free training, which teaches you the basics of facilitation. And so our opt-in page is to sell that free training, nothing else. And so our opt-in page leads to a video and
So we want to sell that. And so what we offer them, we don't sell them that first. We don't even tell them about that first. Our Facebook ad is selling a one hour free training, which teaches you the basics of facilitation. And so our opt-in page is to sell that free training, nothing else. And so our opt-in page leads to a video and
So the way you talk about it in marketing is you're always selling the thing that sells the thing. I wish I could remember the name of the guy who said that. Steve Larson, I think. So your Facebook ad is selling the opt-in page. Your opt in page is selling watching the video. And I'll tell you as you go.
So the way you talk about it in marketing is you're always selling the thing that sells the thing. I wish I could remember the name of the guy who said that. Steve Larson, I think. So your Facebook ad is selling the opt-in page. Your opt in page is selling watching the video. And I'll tell you as you go.
But you're basically right now, all you're focused on is selling the idea of watching this video because people can get free stuff online all the time. All of YouTube is free. Why the hell should you give your email address and sit down and watch this particular video? So you do have to sell
But you're basically right now, all you're focused on is selling the idea of watching this video because people can get free stuff online all the time. All of YouTube is free. Why the hell should you give your email address and sit down and watch this particular video? So you do have to sell
watching this video basically um because in in the end someone being trained by you on a small level is an ad it's a pitch essentially because they're getting a sense of what it's like to be trained by you so there's an opt-in page which which basically tells them that they can get this free it can be also a downloadable it can be a lead magnet it can be like a pdf
watching this video basically um because in in the end someone being trained by you on a small level is an ad it's a pitch essentially because they're getting a sense of what it's like to be trained by you so there's an opt-in page which which basically tells them that they can get this free it can be also a downloadable it can be a lead magnet it can be like a pdf
We're doing a new one soon, which is like a list of different exercises and that kind of stuff. Like we have this, this is actually one version of it here. I'm holding it up to the screen. It's a book, a physical book called meetings that we're going to be using as a lead magnet that will actually ship to you. It doesn't matter.
We're doing a new one soon, which is like a list of different exercises and that kind of stuff. Like we have this, this is actually one version of it here. I'm holding it up to the screen. It's a book, a physical book called meetings that we're going to be using as a lead magnet that will actually ship to you. It doesn't matter.
The opt-in page is about getting your email address and ideally getting your attention on something. And so the next page, so the first page, we build these on either Framer or ClickFunnels. So Framer is when we want to have something that looks nice.
The opt-in page is about getting your email address and ideally getting your attention on something. And so the next page, so the first page, we build these on either Framer or ClickFunnels. So Framer is when we want to have something that looks nice.
And ClickFunnels is when a random person at AJ and Smart, including me, who doesn't want to figure out how to use Framer properly, just needs to test some Facebook ads. So I don't have any affiliation with ClickFunnels, but that's like what we use for a lot of our funnels. So I'll make an opt-in page. And how do I figure out how that opt-in page should look?
And ClickFunnels is when a random person at AJ and Smart, including me, who doesn't want to figure out how to use Framer properly, just needs to test some Facebook ads. So I don't have any affiliation with ClickFunnels, but that's like what we use for a lot of our funnels. So I'll make an opt-in page. And how do I figure out how that opt-in page should look?
I look at other people's opt-in pages, right? That's how I do it. Then the next page is the video. The video is like a training based off the book, which is called Expert Secrets from Russell Brunson. I know people think he's cheesy. I don't care. I think that book is really good. And I use 50% of the format of that book to do the training.
I look at other people's opt-in pages, right? That's how I do it. Then the next page is the video. The video is like a training based off the book, which is called Expert Secrets from Russell Brunson. I know people think he's cheesy. I don't care. I think that book is really good. And I use 50% of the format of that book to do the training.
And instead of selling something at the end of the training like he does, because I don't feel comfortable doing this, I sell a call.
And instead of selling something at the end of the training like he does, because I don't feel comfortable doing this, I sell a call.
So basically, in this training, I tell people, if you liked this training and you want to know if you want to get a proper training from AJ and Smart, either in person or online, you can book a call with one of our career coaches who will talk you through and show you all the different things we have. And we get
So basically, in this training, I tell people, if you liked this training and you want to know if you want to get a proper training from AJ and Smart, either in person or online, you can book a call with one of our career coaches who will talk you through and show you all the different things we have. And we get
between 16 and 20 of these call bookings per day, which we which we have gotten since November 2020. So the video leads to a call booking.
between 16 and 20 of these call bookings per day, which we which we have gotten since November 2020. So the video leads to a call booking.
And this is annoying some of my team, but I love it.
And this is annoying some of my team, but I love it.
They're free. They're free. We are actually paying for everything up until this point. It's actually ROI negative up until this point. So it's a Facebook ad to an opt-in page to a free training. And then this free training, a certain amount of people, I can tell you the exact stats we have if you're interested, because I have this.
They're free. They're free. We are actually paying for everything up until this point. It's actually ROI negative up until this point. So it's a Facebook ad to an opt-in page to a free training. And then this free training, a certain amount of people, I can tell you the exact stats we have if you're interested, because I have this.
I'll open up the funnel tracking sheet and I'll tell you everything.
I'll open up the funnel tracking sheet and I'll tell you everything.
All right, let's see. Will I give you a feeling for this one funnel about how much it cost, how much it made, this kind of thing? So we spent 74... It's Euro. We spent $80,000 on ads in... What month is this? In June? June. So this is just a June page that's open right now. $80,000 in June on Facebook ads, $6,000 in June on Google and YouTube ads. So total ads, oh yeah, sorry, total ad spend.
All right, let's see. Will I give you a feeling for this one funnel about how much it cost, how much it made, this kind of thing? So we spent 74... It's Euro. We spent $80,000 on ads in... What month is this? In June? June. So this is just a June page that's open right now. $80,000 in June on Facebook ads, $6,000 in June on Google and YouTube ads. So total ads, oh yeah, sorry, total ad spend.
So total ad spend between Facebook and Google, a 79,000 euro, $86,000. then total cash collected was 200 and set, uh, 200 and S oh yeah. Total revenue was $252,000. So, and that's like two thousand, 270,000. Yeah. $270,000, 252,000 Euro. This is getting confusing. I apologize. But our return on investment on Facebook ads and Google ads was 318%. So that's an example.
So total ad spend between Facebook and Google, a 79,000 euro, $86,000. then total cash collected was 200 and set, uh, 200 and S oh yeah. Total revenue was $252,000. So, and that's like two thousand, 270,000. Yeah. $270,000, 252,000 Euro. This is getting confusing. I apologize. But our return on investment on Facebook ads and Google ads was 318%. So that's an example.
This tweet went crazy. I never have anybody liking any of my stuff on Twitter or on X. I hate when that happens because I'm like, oh, did I do something bad? Did I post something that somehow... politically or something. And no, I opened up Twitter. I opened up X. There was a thousand notifications. I never get more than two. And so I was thinking, shit, did I make a really off-color joke?
This tweet went crazy. I never have anybody liking any of my stuff on Twitter or on X. I hate when that happens because I'm like, oh, did I do something bad? Did I post something that somehow... politically or something. And no, I opened up Twitter. I opened up X. There was a thousand notifications. I never get more than two. And so I was thinking, shit, did I make a really off-color joke?
And you can see how many calls booked. We had 339 call bookings. Only 273 of those people turned up because obviously not everyone turns up. And we sold 65 units of Workshopper Master. That's an example of this particular funnel running. And this has been going for four and a half, well, whatever since November 2020 is. So yeah, that's that funnel.
And you can see how many calls booked. We had 339 call bookings. Only 273 of those people turned up because obviously not everyone turns up. And we sold 65 units of Workshopper Master. That's an example of this particular funnel running. And this has been going for four and a half, well, whatever since November 2020 is. So yeah, that's that funnel.
Four years. Okay. Facebook and Google ads, which then lead to an opt-in page, which then leads to a video, which then leads to a Calendly, which then leads to the team taking call bookings. If you want to see this funnel working, you can, but please don't book. I will ask your audience to not book calls. I'm just wondering, should I do this to my team?
Four years. Okay. Facebook and Google ads, which then lead to an opt-in page, which then leads to a video, which then leads to a Calendly, which then leads to the team taking call bookings. If you want to see this funnel working, you can, but please don't book. I will ask your audience to not book calls. I'm just wondering, should I do this to my team?
Because actually every time they click on the ad, we're going to get charged. No, I'm actually... If you know, you know. If you know how to do this, you know how to do it. But please don't do the call booking part of this because that will cost my team a lot of time and money if you cancel. But yeah, we have multiple funnels like this. We also have a book funnel that's running.
Because actually every time they click on the ad, we're going to get charged. No, I'm actually... If you know, you know. If you know how to do this, you know how to do it. But please don't do the call booking part of this because that will cost my team a lot of time and money if you cancel. But yeah, we have multiple funnels like this. We also have a book funnel that's running.
This one I can actually show you or your team can look at. If you search for the Workshopper Playbook and you go to workshopperplaybook.com. This is the same thing, except instead of a free training, you can get either a free Kindle version of the book, or you can get a digital and physical copy of the book. We make zero, actually we lose money at this step.
This one I can actually show you or your team can look at. If you search for the Workshopper Playbook and you go to workshopperplaybook.com. This is the same thing, except instead of a free training, you can get either a free Kindle version of the book, or you can get a digital and physical copy of the book. We make zero, actually we lose money at this step.
But we want you to give us your email address and your details because then we can bring you into other parts of the funnel. And we'll often use this as like the front end of the funnel because Facebook ads, when you're holding something physical like a book, work really well. And so this is one of our funnels that has been probably the most successful one we've ever made. And this book...
But we want you to give us your email address and your details because then we can bring you into other parts of the funnel. And we'll often use this as like the front end of the funnel because Facebook ads, when you're holding something physical like a book, work really well. And so this is one of our funnels that has been probably the most successful one we've ever made. And this book...
obviously isn't the best book ever. It was supposed to just be a little PDF lead magnet that I created in the space of one week or less. But in the end, it was like, oh, this lead magnet's getting so big, we can use it as a book funnel. But yeah, so ads to book funnel to getting the email address and then into some sort of campaign later, like our Black Friday campaign for this year.
obviously isn't the best book ever. It was supposed to just be a little PDF lead magnet that I created in the space of one week or less. But in the end, it was like, oh, this lead magnet's getting so big, we can use it as a book funnel. But yeah, so ads to book funnel to getting the email address and then into some sort of campaign later, like our Black Friday campaign for this year.
So we'll take those leads which have not been monetized yet and we'll bring them into our Black Friday campaign. We'll figure out what we want to sell or what we want to do. But yeah, that's and all of that is Facebook ads, basically.
So we'll take those leads which have not been monetized yet and we'll bring them into our Black Friday campaign. We'll figure out what we want to sell or what we want to do. But yeah, that's and all of that is Facebook ads, basically.
For us, this is straight up hardcore email marketing. We start telling people, anybody who's come through any of our funnels but hasn't bought anything yet, we'll start sending them emails. We'll create a sale. We'll create a sale page using ClickFunnels. And anybody who hasn't bought anything yet will get pushed towards that sales page using emails.
For us, this is straight up hardcore email marketing. We start telling people, anybody who's come through any of our funnels but hasn't bought anything yet, we'll start sending them emails. We'll create a sale. We'll create a sale page using ClickFunnels. And anybody who hasn't bought anything yet will get pushed towards that sales page using emails.
And we'll be using ConvertKit to figure out who's done what. And dude, we send a lot of emails. We're famous for that. Get a lot of unsubscribes as well.
And we'll be using ConvertKit to figure out who's done what. And dude, we send a lot of emails. We're famous for that. Get a lot of unsubscribes as well.
unsubscribes and should you feel bad about them we tried to clean out our um list during these campaigns so during black friday summer sale prime day and a back to school sale um we're not emailing every single person on our list so we have 130 000 people on our list today although we don't do many list building activities outside of running facebook ads um
unsubscribes and should you feel bad about them we tried to clean out our um list during these campaigns so during black friday summer sale prime day and a back to school sale um we're not emailing every single person on our list so we have 130 000 people on our list today although we don't do many list building activities outside of running facebook ads um
It was just a post about Basecamp.
It was just a post about Basecamp.
we will find a cohort or a segment of that email list and we'll use that. But generally, I mean, we're threading a thin line between sending too much, getting too many unsubscribed. We're always testing that. But we have a lot of data from the last 16 or 14 years on doing this now. So I think we've got a good... Your question is, how do we think about it?
we will find a cohort or a segment of that email list and we'll use that. But generally, I mean, we're threading a thin line between sending too much, getting too many unsubscribed. We're always testing that. But we have a lot of data from the last 16 or 14 years on doing this now. So I think we've got a good... Your question is, how do we think about it?
We try to make the most sales with the least amount of unsubscribes. But we're also okay if people opt themselves out of what we're selling as well. Because there are people who probably just never want to buy anything that we have. And then they can just continue consuming our free content on YouTube. And that's also fine with us.
We try to make the most sales with the least amount of unsubscribes. But we're also okay if people opt themselves out of what we're selling as well. Because there are people who probably just never want to buy anything that we have. And then they can just continue consuming our free content on YouTube. And that's also fine with us.
But I also feel, you know, we have the biggest YouTube channel for our topic, which is facilitation. Hundreds of hours of free content out there. So we're also, we feel like, we call it like the goodwill bucket. Whenever we do a big campaign like that, where we feel like, okay, we're pushing it, maybe pushing it a little bit.
But I also feel, you know, we have the biggest YouTube channel for our topic, which is facilitation. Hundreds of hours of free content out there. So we're also, we feel like, we call it like the goodwill bucket. Whenever we do a big campaign like that, where we feel like, okay, we're pushing it, maybe pushing it a little bit.
We're also trying to make sure our goodwill bucket of free stuff is being filled up.
We're also trying to make sure our goodwill bucket of free stuff is being filled up.
I think the way I put it, I mentioned this thing about Slack kind of became the default interface of my company and that, but like your tools in a way do determine a little bit what your work culture is like and your tools kind of, I don't know how you say it. There's probably a really nice way to say it. Like the tools determine the way you work, something about that.
I think the way I put it, I mentioned this thing about Slack kind of became the default interface of my company and that, but like your tools in a way do determine a little bit what your work culture is like and your tools kind of, I don't know how you say it. There's probably a really nice way to say it. Like the tools determine the way you work, something about that.
If someone finds you via Facebook ad and... Dude, it's the big... Everybody who starts working on funnels with me, one of their first questions is, how do you track exactly which things are creating which conversions so that I know should I put more energy into LinkedIn or into YouTube or into whatever? Uh, yeah. And you know, there's a lot of products that can help you track these things.
If someone finds you via Facebook ad and... Dude, it's the big... Everybody who starts working on funnels with me, one of their first questions is, how do you track exactly which things are creating which conversions so that I know should I put more energy into LinkedIn or into YouTube or into whatever? Uh, yeah. And you know, there's a lot of products that can help you track these things.
Like Hyros is one of these products. And I, in the end, just, we don't call it with Hyros. I don't know how you say it. Hyros, Hyros, H H Y R O S.
Like Hyros is one of these products. And I, in the end, just, we don't call it with Hyros. I don't know how you say it. Hyros, Hyros, H H Y R O S.
This tells you like, I think it tells you if someone comes all the way from YouTube and it tracks all the conversions all the way through. We don't pay so much attention to that. And honestly, this is because I took advice from Sam Ovens, which is Don't fucking bother tracking it. You have your monthly P&L.
This tells you like, I think it tells you if someone comes all the way from YouTube and it tracks all the conversions all the way through. We don't pay so much attention to that. And honestly, this is because I took advice from Sam Ovens, which is Don't fucking bother tracking it. You have your monthly P&L.
You just make sure your company is growing and that your expenses are a lot lower than your incoming. And just focus on the Facebook ad spend ROI. And you can assume that having really great content out there builds trust. The people in the ClickFunnels community call it a shadow funnel, meaning someone sees your ad. The next thing they're going to do is see if you're real.
You just make sure your company is growing and that your expenses are a lot lower than your incoming. And just focus on the Facebook ad spend ROI. And you can assume that having really great content out there builds trust. The people in the ClickFunnels community call it a shadow funnel, meaning someone sees your ad. The next thing they're going to do is see if you're real.
And if they find like six years of high quality YouTube content out there, they're going to be a lot more relaxed about going into your funnel than if you're just completely invisible on the internet.
And if they find like six years of high quality YouTube content out there, they're going to be a lot more relaxed about going into your funnel than if you're just completely invisible on the internet.
Dude, I am obsessed with that. I'd love to do... I would need to have like being able to use like the whiteboard sort of thing. I would happily do a live with you, but it would need to be like three or four hours long. I would happily do that. And I can go through... We could make a funnel for someone or like for a product. I would love to do that. I love making funnels.
Dude, I am obsessed with that. I'd love to do... I would need to have like being able to use like the whiteboard sort of thing. I would happily do a live with you, but it would need to be like three or four hours long. I would happily do that. And I can go through... We could make a funnel for someone or like for a product. I would love to do that. I love making funnels.
A lot of the times when people are building startups or when people are thinking of businesses, they're not thinking about the fact that even very simple Google ads are hard to set up for a company and for even an event. So just giving people the basic package of meta ads and simple Google search ads, it can be a game changer for these people. Here's what I do, okay?
A lot of the times when people are building startups or when people are thinking of businesses, they're not thinking about the fact that even very simple Google ads are hard to set up for a company and for even an event. So just giving people the basic package of meta ads and simple Google search ads, it can be a game changer for these people. Here's what I do, okay?
You know, one of the biggest parts of funnels is copywriting.
You know, one of the biggest parts of funnels is copywriting.
I spent, today I spent from, I think I spent six hours today sitting with my team rewriting copy. Like that's why I'm honestly so tired.
I spent, today I spent from, I think I spent six hours today sitting with my team rewriting copy. Like that's why I'm honestly so tired.
Yes. You know, my favorite thing ever is when we're doing our partnerships with other companies, we were working with a company last week. And when I can come up with an angle for them and a sentence for them that just makes them go, oh my, oh, that's it. That's like one of the most satisfying things of all time. Like Laura and I who run AJ and Smart were obsessed with the nerdy elements of copy.
Yes. You know, my favorite thing ever is when we're doing our partnerships with other companies, we were working with a company last week. And when I can come up with an angle for them and a sentence for them that just makes them go, oh my, oh, that's it. That's like one of the most satisfying things of all time. Like Laura and I who run AJ and Smart were obsessed with the nerdy elements of copy.
It's so, It's crazy how much of a conversion rate difference it can make.
It's so, It's crazy how much of a conversion rate difference it can make.
Yeah. Can I tell you one copy hack? There's two copy hacks, actually. So when you're writing copy, copy is just like text, right? Just in case anyone's wondering what the hell we're talking about. One of the biggest things when you're writing copy and you're trying to figure out is it good or not, especially for a landing page, is you can ask yourself the question, does this copy...
Yeah. Can I tell you one copy hack? There's two copy hacks, actually. So when you're writing copy, copy is just like text, right? Just in case anyone's wondering what the hell we're talking about. One of the biggest things when you're writing copy and you're trying to figure out is it good or not, especially for a landing page, is you can ask yourself the question, does this copy...
And it was just, so I've been traveling a lot over the last few weeks and Laura and I who run the company have been rethinking the business from the ground up, but mainly from like the outside perspective. So we're going to be relaunching the business on the 2nd of October.
And it was just, so I've been traveling a lot over the last few weeks and Laura and I who run the company have been rethinking the business from the ground up, but mainly from like the outside perspective. So we're going to be relaunching the business on the 2nd of October.
push towards the idea that it will increase someone's status. So this is a really big thing. It means that, oh, I held it up to the screen and I realized not everyone listens. The idea is that we're often writing copy when we're writing about a product, we're not thinking about the fact that people often buy things because of status. Like, will this make me look better to my peers?
push towards the idea that it will increase someone's status. So this is a really big thing. It means that, oh, I held it up to the screen and I realized not everyone listens. The idea is that we're often writing copy when we're writing about a product, we're not thinking about the fact that people often buy things because of status. Like, will this make me look better to my peers?
And you think like when you're selling corporate training like we do, well, then we should never lean on the status thing. But of course, if you learn something that makes you more valuable to your colleagues in work, your status increases because more people want you to do things. And so we lean right into that.
And you think like when you're selling corporate training like we do, well, then we should never lean on the status thing. But of course, if you learn something that makes you more valuable to your colleagues in work, your status increases because more people want you to do things. And so we lean right into that.
And it makes a massive difference to sales if you push towards this idea of helping people increase their status and not in kind of like a... Again, it's not like if you buy this cool watch, then you're going to have a higher status. It's if you are more useful to other people, you will be perceived as higher status. And it's all very different for different topics and different companies.
And it makes a massive difference to sales if you push towards this idea of helping people increase their status and not in kind of like a... Again, it's not like if you buy this cool watch, then you're going to have a higher status. It's if you are more useful to other people, you will be perceived as higher status. And it's all very different for different topics and different companies.
That's one. The second thing is if you're stuck trying to figure out what the hell do I write for this headline? Like I'm trying to sell this microphone or something. Then you can draw this thing, which is kind of cool, which I'll draw and show here, but I'll also explain it. So on the left, it says pain. And on the right, it says pleasure.
That's one. The second thing is if you're stuck trying to figure out what the hell do I write for this headline? Like I'm trying to sell this microphone or something. Then you can draw this thing, which is kind of cool, which I'll draw and show here, but I'll also explain it. So on the left, it says pain. And on the right, it says pleasure.
I'm sure a lot of you already know this because you've got smart people in your audience. And when you're writing copy, you can figure out whether you want to write copy that moves people away from pain. So away from pain is like... Never carry around... Like this microphone is battery controlled, so it doesn't need this like phantom energy thing.
I'm sure a lot of you already know this because you've got smart people in your audience. And when you're writing copy, you can figure out whether you want to write copy that moves people away from pain. So away from pain is like... Never carry around... Like this microphone is battery controlled, so it doesn't need this like phantom energy thing.
If anyone knows, like a lot of microphones need to be plugged into a much bigger thing for them to work. So with this microphone, if we were talking about moving away from pain, we would say... Never get stuck in the airport without your podcast equipment again or something like this because you can fit it in your pocket, doesn't need phantom energy.
If anyone knows, like a lot of microphones need to be plugged into a much bigger thing for them to work. So with this microphone, if we were talking about moving away from pain, we would say... Never get stuck in the airport without your podcast equipment again or something like this because you can fit it in your pocket, doesn't need phantom energy.
So that's moving away from pain because it's reminding you of a painful situation that happens to you. Moving towards pleasure. would be talking about how beautiful this thing is and how nice it sounds. So it's talking about the positives. And sometimes, depending on the economy, this is something that a lot of people talk about in the marketing space.
So that's moving away from pain because it's reminding you of a painful situation that happens to you. Moving towards pleasure. would be talking about how beautiful this thing is and how nice it sounds. So it's talking about the positives. And sometimes, depending on the economy, this is something that a lot of people talk about in the marketing space.
When the economy is really bad and things are going to shit, then you want to make copy. And especially if you're selling some sort of education service, you want to talk about moving away from pain. So during COVID, a lot of marketing was about moving away from pain. In good times and prosperous times, you talk a lot about moving towards pleasure.
When the economy is really bad and things are going to shit, then you want to make copy. And especially if you're selling some sort of education service, you want to talk about moving away from pain. So during COVID, a lot of marketing was about moving away from pain. In good times and prosperous times, you talk a lot about moving towards pleasure.
But then we started to realize to make all of these changes, we're going to have to change everything inside the business too, for everything to really work and feel different. So we're moving office. That's one big thing, moving to a new physical location, a bigger space. And that's like doubling down on us working in person together, being able to collaborate with more people.
But then we started to realize to make all of these changes, we're going to have to change everything inside the business too, for everything to really work and feel different. So we're moving office. That's one big thing, moving to a new physical location, a bigger space. And that's like doubling down on us working in person together, being able to collaborate with more people.
It's just another little hack when I get stuck writing copy.
It's just another little hack when I get stuck writing copy.
I learned it from, I think it was Dean Graziosi on Twitter, like fucking six years ago or something, or on stage at ClickFunnels Funnel Hacking Live. Just all these kind of old school telemarketer guys.
I learned it from, I think it was Dean Graziosi on Twitter, like fucking six years ago or something, or on stage at ClickFunnels Funnel Hacking Live. Just all these kind of old school telemarketer guys.
I love that people don't really pay attention to them because they have a lot of really good, like they read all these old copywriting books, like Dan Kennedy, all these kind of like old school marketers. They have some really good copywriting tips. Like they invented this topic and we're all just too cool to learn it now, but I'm definitely not too cool to learn.
I love that people don't really pay attention to them because they have a lot of really good, like they read all these old copywriting books, like Dan Kennedy, all these kind of like old school marketers. They have some really good copywriting tips. Like they invented this topic and we're all just too cool to learn it now, but I'm definitely not too cool to learn.
I'm going to get three gold Rolexes minimum so that I can open my ads account. I have another random idea for you.
I'm going to get three gold Rolexes minimum so that I can open my ads account. I have another random idea for you.
What if I say it in one sentence? What if I say it in one sentence?
What if I say it in one sentence? What if I say it in one sentence?
Now that weed is legalized in so many places, there are people like me who don't like the smell of it. And now it's everywhere. It comes into your apartment. If someone can figure out a way to get rid of that smell and help with this issue, they're going to make trillions. For both the people who are smoking and the people who are receiving the smoke in cities, in cities especially.
Now that weed is legalized in so many places, there are people like me who don't like the smell of it. And now it's everywhere. It comes into your apartment. If someone can figure out a way to get rid of that smell and help with this issue, they're going to make trillions. For both the people who are smoking and the people who are receiving the smoke in cities, in cities especially.
I have been kind of hacking together my own system here and that's, that's a longer episode, but if people can fit, like making a website based on this search term, like getting rid of weed smell from neighbors and just turning that into affiliate links to specific air purifiers, things like this. Um, like doing like something like the wire cutter, but for this specific problem, dude.
I have been kind of hacking together my own system here and that's, that's a longer episode, but if people can fit, like making a website based on this search term, like getting rid of weed smell from neighbors and just turning that into affiliate links to specific air purifiers, things like this. Um, like doing like something like the wire cutter, but for this specific problem, dude.
I don't know. Maybe it won't make billions.
I don't know. Maybe it won't make billions.
Well, we have a huge distinction between websites and funnels.
Well, we have a huge distinction between websites and funnels.
In one sentence. A website is a business card just saying, here's all the stuff we do. A funnel is a step-by-step process to bring someone from being a stranger to a customer.
In one sentence. A website is a business card just saying, here's all the stuff we do. A funnel is a step-by-step process to bring someone from being a stranger to a customer.
I missed you too, dude. I missed you too. I wish I had turned up in a more non-manic state, but you know.
I missed you too, dude. I missed you too. I wish I had turned up in a more non-manic state, but you know.
I know. I was traveling, dude. I was in your beautiful country getting my brain melted by so many different crazy things going on. It's good fun.
I know. I was traveling, dude. I was in your beautiful country getting my brain melted by so many different crazy things going on. It's good fun.
And the second thing was getting fucking rid of Slack. Fuck that shit.
And the second thing was getting fucking rid of Slack. Fuck that shit.
At least any of the other people who are listening to this podcast who know me and have the same problem with me now don't feel like I'm just attacking them individually by not responding to stuff. Yeah. Yeah, dude. I have to tell you off the podcast how the last six weeks have been because it's crazy. You'll forgive me. You'll forgive me.
At least any of the other people who are listening to this podcast who know me and have the same problem with me now don't feel like I'm just attacking them individually by not responding to stuff. Yeah. Yeah, dude. I have to tell you off the podcast how the last six weeks have been because it's crazy. You'll forgive me. You'll forgive me.
It's been great. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me back on.
It's been great. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me back on.
Of course, because it becomes, it is your work interface.
Of course, because it becomes, it is your work interface.
It literally becomes your work interface. And here's one of the dangers I think of Slack. I see Laura, who's a senior member of AJ and Smart, who's running like very large seven figure sections of the business. I started to see that her job was replying to people on Slack.
It literally becomes your work interface. And here's one of the dangers I think of Slack. I see Laura, who's a senior member of AJ and Smart, who's running like very large seven figure sections of the business. I started to see that her job was replying to people on Slack.
And I'm like, wouldn't we make way more money if you used your marketing strategy skills instead of replying to fucking Slack messages? And it's the same for me. I'm the CEO and I was spending all day just replying to Slack messages. It's because it's like... easy to do that because the work is just put there for you.
And I'm like, wouldn't we make way more money if you used your marketing strategy skills instead of replying to fucking Slack messages? And it's the same for me. I'm the CEO and I was spending all day just replying to Slack messages. It's because it's like... easy to do that because the work is just put there for you.
It's like your tasks are ready for the day, whereas real work that makes real money and makes seven figure differences, that doesn't come from just responding to shit on Slack from my perspective. So I just wanted to get rid of it. Go cold turkey. It's gone now. I haven't opened Slack in two weeks. It feels liberating. This is the episode.
It's like your tasks are ready for the day, whereas real work that makes real money and makes seven figure differences, that doesn't come from just responding to shit on Slack from my perspective. So I just wanted to get rid of it. Go cold turkey. It's gone now. I haven't opened Slack in two weeks. It feels liberating. This is the episode.
I actually, I know I told you I didn't have any ideas, but I thought of some things beforehand that I think could be interesting. Like a couple of things that I notice are missing in the industry that could be for small startups or one person kind of solopreneur thingies. One is, I noticed that one, like... one of the best ways to build a business and to grow a business is to run paid ads.
I actually, I know I told you I didn't have any ideas, but I thought of some things beforehand that I think could be interesting. Like a couple of things that I notice are missing in the industry that could be for small startups or one person kind of solopreneur thingies. One is, I noticed that one, like... one of the best ways to build a business and to grow a business is to run paid ads.
I mean, a lot of people know this. The problem is... Wow, shocker.
I mean, a lot of people know this. The problem is... Wow, shocker.
Again, these hot takes for me. So a lot of businesses, small businesses, big businesses need paid ads. or they often don't even realize that paid ads are worth using.
Again, these hot takes for me. So a lot of businesses, small businesses, big businesses need paid ads. or they often don't even realize that paid ads are worth using.
The problem is that the market for people who offer paid ad services are either agencies, which are too expensive and like too big and just confusing, or douchey guys who are like 25 wearing a gold Rolex and look kind of intimidating.
The problem is that the market for people who offer paid ad services are either agencies, which are too expensive and like too big and just confusing, or douchey guys who are like 25 wearing a gold Rolex and look kind of intimidating.
I actually, I know I told you I didn't have any ideas, but I thought of some things beforehand that I think could be interesting. I think there's a massive empty space in the market for not douchey, non-agency companies who help other people run Facebook ads. Literally that.
I actually, I know I told you I didn't have any ideas, but I thought of some things beforehand that I think could be interesting. I think there's a massive empty space in the market for not douchey, non-agency companies who help other people run Facebook ads. Literally that.
Just to get the business off the ground in one month.
Just to get the business off the ground in one month.
And I think that so when I tell people that we at AJ and Smart run a million dollars of ads per year, they're like, but Facebook ads don't work. Like, but I heard meta ads don't work, but I heard this doesn't work. And I was I'm always very confused about why they think this.
And I think that so when I tell people that we at AJ and Smart run a million dollars of ads per year, they're like, but Facebook ads don't work. Like, but I heard meta ads don't work, but I heard this doesn't work. And I was I'm always very confused about why they think this.
But when I talk to them, it's because they're somehow when they're looking for paid advertising for their business, they fall into like the douche averse. You know what I mean? They end up having calls of these people who are obviously just don't give you a sense of safety and trust. And I'm always helping companies running their ads, obviously for free. This is just something I want.
But when I talk to them, it's because they're somehow when they're looking for paid advertising for their business, they fall into like the douche averse. You know what I mean? They end up having calls of these people who are obviously just don't give you a sense of safety and trust. And I'm always helping companies running their ads, obviously for free. This is just something I want.
I'm like, you need to do this. This is something that's very effective. You can turn on ads and get leads and then you can monetize those leads. That's a really big way our business runs. And I think there's... There's a huge amount of space in the industry for one-person ad consultants, basically, who appeal to specific verticals and are not douchey. So, for example...
I'm like, you need to do this. This is something that's very effective. You can turn on ads and get leads and then you can monetize those leads. That's a really big way our business runs. And I think there's... There's a huge amount of space in the industry for one-person ad consultants, basically, who appeal to specific verticals and are not douchey. So, for example...
There's a huge space in the market for people who can run ads for just like salons, like hair salons. There's a huge space in the market for people who can run ads specifically for female info product owners. There's so many different verticals that you could go into running ads for people.
There's a huge space in the market for people who can run ads for just like salons, like hair salons. There's a huge space in the market for people who can run ads specifically for female info product owners. There's so many different verticals that you could go into running ads for people.
but not becoming an agency and not presenting yourself as like a rich person on the internet, because I think that's a turnoff for a lot of people, especially in Europe. And so that's one thing I'm thinking.
but not becoming an agency and not presenting yourself as like a rich person on the internet, because I think that's a turnoff for a lot of people, especially in Europe. And so that's one thing I'm thinking.
I'm always thinking about like, again, which businesses would I start or which businesses am I trying to get my friends to start so that I can eventually just become part of it and get a cut of it. I think there's a massive empty space in the market for not, douchy, non-agency companies or single-person shows who help other people run Facebook ads. Literally that. That's it. That's one idea.
I'm always thinking about like, again, which businesses would I start or which businesses am I trying to get my friends to start so that I can eventually just become part of it and get a cut of it. I think there's a massive empty space in the market for not, douchy, non-agency companies or single-person shows who help other people run Facebook ads. Literally that. That's it. That's one idea.
Do you notice this with the fact that paid ads get poo-pooed, but probably not for the right reasons?
Do you notice this with the fact that paid ads get poo-pooed, but probably not for the right reasons?
Yes, yes. I mean, that's fine if you're appealing to people who want to run ads for that kind of lifestyle stuff. But there's a lot of people not realizing that there's an entire rest of the market that
Yes, yes. I mean, that's fine if you're appealing to people who want to run ads for that kind of lifestyle stuff. But there's a lot of people not realizing that there's an entire rest of the market that
for, like, if you were, I see a lot of open space for people to run ads to grow people's Patreon accounts, their creative Patreon accounts, things like this, where it's about taking a cut of the revenue or something like that. But there's just so much open space for it. I'm experimenting with this in my business at the moment.
for, like, if you were, I see a lot of open space for people to run ads to grow people's Patreon accounts, their creative Patreon accounts, things like this, where it's about taking a cut of the revenue or something like that. But there's just so much open space for it. I'm experimenting with this in my business at the moment.
So I'm experimenting with partnering up with other people in my kind of strategy design space and helping them run ads and helping them with sort of lead generation. And sometimes I'm shocked. I'm like, why haven't you done this in the last six years? Like, why... Why are you just doing it now? And often the story is a little bit like, oh yeah, we tried it and it didn't work.
So I'm experimenting with partnering up with other people in my kind of strategy design space and helping them run ads and helping them with sort of lead generation. And sometimes I'm shocked. I'm like, why haven't you done this in the last six years? Like, why... Why are you just doing it now? And often the story is a little bit like, oh yeah, we tried it and it didn't work.
And then we talked to this guy and he seemed a bit scammy. And then this and this and this. Then we worked with this agency and we couldn't contact them. And I'm like, there's so much space for this. There's so much space in the market for this. Honestly, just being a meta ads expert would be a game changer. If you don't market yourself in a weird... It's about getting rich way.
And then we talked to this guy and he seemed a bit scammy. And then this and this and this. Then we worked with this agency and we couldn't contact them. And I'm like, there's so much space for this. There's so much space in the market for this. Honestly, just being a meta ads expert would be a game changer. If you don't market yourself in a weird... It's about getting rich way.
You know what I mean?
You know what I mean?
quite literally sitting in a room with them, opening the meta dashboard, showing them our meta dashboard, showing them how we're doing it. So it's more of an advisory thing. So we're advising people on setting up funnels and taking a cut of their revenue. We're going to announce that publicly in probably two weeks after we launch this episode.
quite literally sitting in a room with them, opening the meta dashboard, showing them our meta dashboard, showing them how we're doing it. So it's more of an advisory thing. So we're advising people on setting up funnels and taking a cut of their revenue. We're going to announce that publicly in probably two weeks after we launch this episode.
But yeah, for the last two and a half years, we've been advising other companies on lead generation, building funnels, that kind of stuff. Pure advisory, no agency work, no consulting. I guess it is a bit of consulting.
But yeah, for the last two and a half years, we've been advising other companies on lead generation, building funnels, that kind of stuff. Pure advisory, no agency work, no consulting. I guess it is a bit of consulting.
Here's what I do, okay? Just to get the business off the ground in one month. The first thing I would do is look around at events like, let's say yoga retreats that are happening around New York, something like that. Just make a Google Doc of the ones that are not full yet. They haven't been filled.
Here's what I do, okay? Just to get the business off the ground in one month. The first thing I would do is look around at events like, let's say yoga retreats that are happening around New York, something like that. Just make a Google Doc of the ones that are not full yet. They haven't been filled.
And I would contact these people and try to figure out, hey, are you having trouble filling up these events? I can fill it up for you using Facebook ads, but I'm going to take a cut of every ticket sale. The end. That's all my first clients. Obviously, not everyone would say yes, but that would be an example of how I would jump on this starting this business.
And I would contact these people and try to figure out, hey, are you having trouble filling up these events? I can fill it up for you using Facebook ads, but I'm going to take a cut of every ticket sale. The end. That's all my first clients. Obviously, not everyone would say yes, but that would be an example of how I would jump on this starting this business.
But yeah, I would be looking for things where I think the product is probably good or the product is maybe interesting to me. So I know how to make ads for it. And for me, that's like creative stuff.
But yeah, I would be looking for things where I think the product is probably good or the product is maybe interesting to me. So I know how to make ads for it. And for me, that's like creative stuff.
So I could definitely sell... I could definitely help someone make ads for like creative retreats, things like this, yoga retreats, meditation, anything in the wellness space, anything in the design space. I'd also look at things like...
So I could definitely sell... I could definitely help someone make ads for like creative retreats, things like this, yoga retreats, meditation, anything in the wellness space, anything in the design space. I'd also look at things like...
bigger, you know, art installation things, things like this, I would be reaching out to these people, assuming they don't know how to do paid ads and trying to work with them on selling out their thing. Because honestly, event owners hate selling events. They love putting on events. That would be like my first vertical that I would attack. Well... It's a pretty broad vertical.
bigger, you know, art installation things, things like this, I would be reaching out to these people, assuming they don't know how to do paid ads and trying to work with them on selling out their thing. Because honestly, event owners hate selling events. They love putting on events. That would be like my first vertical that I would attack. Well... It's a pretty broad vertical.
So it's like a horizontal vertical of events. But I would be looking at events around a city that I kind of understand in general topics that I kind of understand. And I would offer them a deal like that where I'm taking a cut only for the ones they sell and only for the ones they sell through my ads. Through their ads, which I help them set up. Cool.
So it's like a horizontal vertical of events. But I would be looking at events around a city that I kind of understand in general topics that I kind of understand. And I would offer them a deal like that where I'm taking a cut only for the ones they sell and only for the ones they sell through my ads. Through their ads, which I help them set up. Cool.
And the other thing is people think meta ads are dead because people are not understanding that meta ads are only dead for people under 35. So meta ads work really, really well for us, better than anything else for people over 40. And there are a lot of people over 40 in the world. They're not all just dead.
And the other thing is people think meta ads are dead because people are not understanding that meta ads are only dead for people under 35. So meta ads work really, really well for us, better than anything else for people over 40. And there are a lot of people over 40 in the world. They're not all just dead.
So I think that a lot of the times when people are building startups or when people are thinking of businesses, they're not thinking about the fact that just because they don't see meta ads and just because they're not on Instagram, doesn't mean like a massive amount of the population aren't seeing these things. Even very simple Google ads are hard to set up for a company and for even an event.
So I think that a lot of the times when people are building startups or when people are thinking of businesses, they're not thinking about the fact that just because they don't see meta ads and just because they're not on Instagram, doesn't mean like a massive amount of the population aren't seeing these things. Even very simple Google ads are hard to set up for a company and for even an event.
Yeah, and I think like it is... One of the strategies I use, it's not the only strategy, but I think it's one of these strategies. By the way, I didn't come up with it. I just learned it somewhere. I don't even remember where. But I was like, this seems too easy. You just write the names of the people who are talking to your audience and you reach out to them and that gets you clients.
Yeah, and I think like it is... One of the strategies I use, it's not the only strategy, but I think it's one of these strategies. By the way, I didn't come up with it. I just learned it somewhere. I don't even remember where. But I was like, this seems too easy. You just write the names of the people who are talking to your audience and you reach out to them and that gets you clients.
The only catch is you have to... Be good at what you do, like as in you have to be able to talk about the thing. So if you're a web designer and you absolutely suck at web design, it won't work at all. So it's only going to work if you are like the real deal, as in if you can do the thing, but then it really works. Who's trying to... Oh, sorry. Nevermind. Someone's trying to call me.
The only catch is you have to... Be good at what you do, like as in you have to be able to talk about the thing. So if you're a web designer and you absolutely suck at web design, it won't work at all. So it's only going to work if you are like the real deal, as in if you can do the thing, but then it really works. Who's trying to... Oh, sorry. Nevermind. Someone's trying to call me.
I was telling you before we started this call, I'm having a really annoying day. It is the most annoying day at AJ and smart of the year.
I was telling you before we started this call, I'm having a really annoying day. It is the most annoying day at AJ and smart of the year.
I'm going to bring all the rage onto this.
I'm going to bring all the rage onto this.
Hey, I'm going to come on air. You know, people in your audience maybe need to know that we also, well, especially me, are also sometimes just having an annoying bad day running a business. Because I think they probably think we're just like, every day is easy. It's all super simple. Anyway, let's get to the next strategy. Let's do it. What's number two? So dream 100 is number one.
Hey, I'm going to come on air. You know, people in your audience maybe need to know that we also, well, especially me, are also sometimes just having an annoying bad day running a business. Because I think they probably think we're just like, every day is easy. It's all super simple. Anyway, let's get to the next strategy. Let's do it. What's number two? So dream 100 is number one.
You don't have to do 100, but just even the research, even just researching the people, researching the potential partners is going to give you a ton of ideas on, you know, the different potential ways that you could reach out to different people and all that. You'll also be shocked.
You don't have to do 100, but just even the research, even just researching the people, researching the potential partners is going to give you a ton of ideas on, you know, the different potential ways that you could reach out to different people and all that. You'll also be shocked.
Oh, there's people like I never heard of in a super niche part of the market that are talking to like 20 people who could completely change my life. So that's another thing. Okay, the next thing, it doesn't really have a name. It's just figure out where your audience is congregating and spending their time and start spending your time there too.
Oh, there's people like I never heard of in a super niche part of the market that are talking to like 20 people who could completely change my life. So that's another thing. Okay, the next thing, it doesn't really have a name. It's just figure out where your audience is congregating and spending their time and start spending your time there too.
That could be interesting to your audience.
That could be interesting to your audience.
And start delivering extreme levels of value to the places where those people are spending time. Let me give you an example. There are a lot of groups for entrepreneurs. Like for example, are you still running a school group? I am. So you have a school group, community, what is it called actually?
And start delivering extreme levels of value to the places where those people are spending time. Let me give you an example. There are a lot of groups for entrepreneurs. Like for example, are you still running a school group? I am. So you have a school group, community, what is it called actually?
So StartupEmpire.co, it's probably like, this is not an ad for StartupEmpire.co. I'm just giving an example. I do not get anything if someone joins StartupEmpire.co. So does it cost something or is it free?
So StartupEmpire.co, it's probably like, this is not an ad for StartupEmpire.co. I'm just giving an example. I do not get anything if someone joins StartupEmpire.co. So does it cost something or is it free?
Oh yeah, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk. I saw one of the recent episodes and it just sounds like I'm drumming the whole time.
Oh yeah, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk. I saw one of the recent episodes and it just sounds like I'm drumming the whole time.
Like what, if you wouldn't mind?
Like what, if you wouldn't mind?
OK, $149 you pay and I guess you can cancel anytime. So let's say you're thinking about this strategically and you're thinking, OK, where can I find people who are hanging out who could potentially be my clients? I'm not going to recommend people go in and spam your group. Don't worry.
OK, $149 you pay and I guess you can cancel anytime. So let's say you're thinking about this strategically and you're thinking, OK, where can I find people who are hanging out who could potentially be my clients? I'm not going to recommend people go in and spam your group. Don't worry.
So if I was looking at this, what I'm looking for is, OK, that's potentially a high quality place where people are hanging out, which maybe I might want to do work with. So I'm going to join that group. I'm going to spend the entire first month just being the most valuable person in that group. Zero spamming, zero telling people to reach out to me and DM me and trying to get work out of it.
So if I was looking at this, what I'm looking for is, OK, that's potentially a high quality place where people are hanging out, which maybe I might want to do work with. So I'm going to join that group. I'm going to spend the entire first month just being the most valuable person in that group. Zero spamming, zero telling people to reach out to me and DM me and trying to get work out of it.
Just being the most valuable person in the group. When people are asking questions about web design, here you go. Here's a question. Don't even follow up with me. You know also that people struggle with this.
Just being the most valuable person in the group. When people are asking questions about web design, here you go. Here's a question. Don't even follow up with me. You know also that people struggle with this.
So you just post like free templates, whatever it is, whatever you can do to make yourself an extremely valuable person in that group while also observing the challenges people have in that group. That's an amazing way to start lightly generating leads for yourself.
So you just post like free templates, whatever it is, whatever you can do to make yourself an extremely valuable person in that group while also observing the challenges people have in that group. That's an amazing way to start lightly generating leads for yourself.
There's a ton of free groups on platforms like Discord, School, Facebook, whatever it is, and even the comments of YouTube channels that are dedicated to specific topics. And in these groups, you can just go in there and deliver as much value as possible.
There's a ton of free groups on platforms like Discord, School, Facebook, whatever it is, and even the comments of YouTube channels that are dedicated to specific topics. And in these groups, you can just go in there and deliver as much value as possible.
And doing that alone will generate leads for you for free or for a very low price per month, like the price of one day of failed experiments on Facebook running ads. And so for me, if I'm starting a company tomorrow, Day one, I'm writing out my dream 100 list. Day two, I'm joining as many goddamn communities as possible. I'm lurking in Reddit groups as well.
And doing that alone will generate leads for you for free or for a very low price per month, like the price of one day of failed experiments on Facebook running ads. And so for me, if I'm starting a company tomorrow, Day one, I'm writing out my dream 100 list. Day two, I'm joining as many goddamn communities as possible. I'm lurking in Reddit groups as well.
I'm looking at different type of entrepreneurial Reddit groups. I'm looking into the places where these people are congregating. And I am just being the most valuable person. Another thing that I used to do is when I started to try to become like a well-known facilitator,
I'm looking at different type of entrepreneurial Reddit groups. I'm looking into the places where these people are congregating. And I am just being the most valuable person. Another thing that I used to do is when I started to try to become like a well-known facilitator,
i'm on quora i've got like the paid quora account or whatever it is and i'm giving people the most detailed answers no chat gpt just clean detailed extremely like over the top better than everyone else's answers and i'm just trying to be valuable if you're thinking about how do i generate leads as fast as possible it still takes some time.
i'm on quora i've got like the paid quora account or whatever it is and i'm giving people the most detailed answers no chat gpt just clean detailed extremely like over the top better than everyone else's answers and i'm just trying to be valuable if you're thinking about how do i generate leads as fast as possible it still takes some time.
But if you just do Dream 100 and just go to where people are congregating and deliver value, within one month, you're going to start getting that momentum. It's like absolutely ridiculously easy. And that's still without you having to be an influencer, without you having to create content, you're just reacting to other people's stuff.
But if you just do Dream 100 and just go to where people are congregating and deliver value, within one month, you're going to start getting that momentum. It's like absolutely ridiculously easy. And that's still without you having to be an influencer, without you having to create content, you're just reacting to other people's stuff.
And without you having to run ads or speak at conferences or release a book, it's just the basics of... getting people interested in what you're doing and seeing the quality of what you can do. Those two things will get you like 80% of your clients in the first few months if you just do it like that.
And without you having to run ads or speak at conferences or release a book, it's just the basics of... getting people interested in what you're doing and seeing the quality of what you can do. Those two things will get you like 80% of your clients in the first few months if you just do it like that.
Yeah, I work with a lot of people or I chat with a lot of entrepreneurs who never use social media. They've never run ads before. There's no chance of them going on X and posting regularly or even making YouTube videos. And then they're like, how do I get leads? How do I do this? And so I... talk about this a lot, but I don't think I've ever made content specifically about how to do it.
Yeah, I work with a lot of people or I chat with a lot of entrepreneurs who never use social media. They've never run ads before. There's no chance of them going on X and posting regularly or even making YouTube videos. And then they're like, how do I get leads? How do I do this? And so I... talk about this a lot, but I don't think I've ever made content specifically about how to do it.
That's an amazing idea. And I also think turning on all notifications for your Dream 100 as well. Just any of the people who are in that list of people who are talking to your audience, they're probably the same people you're talking about. I actually somehow never thought about the fact that it makes sense to turn on notifications so you can jump in there and reply to them.
That's an amazing idea. And I also think turning on all notifications for your Dream 100 as well. Just any of the people who are in that list of people who are talking to your audience, they're probably the same people you're talking about. I actually somehow never thought about the fact that it makes sense to turn on notifications so you can jump in there and reply to them.
But yeah, any time you can deliver value also to the creator by being a helpful person in the comments, also by sharing the creator's stuff so that they have the feeling that you actually care about what they do and that you like what they do and that you're spreading it. I think that's a fantastic idea.
But yeah, any time you can deliver value also to the creator by being a helpful person in the comments, also by sharing the creator's stuff so that they have the feeling that you actually care about what they do and that you like what they do and that you're spreading it. I think that's a fantastic idea.
And you can see all of these are like layers that you put on top of each other for the machine to start working. I love that one. I remember you told me a story, you told it on the podcast of like you reaching out to the like singer of Weezer, was it? And then getting to go to one of the gigs?
And you can see all of these are like layers that you put on top of each other for the machine to start working. I love that one. I remember you told me a story, you told it on the podcast of like you reaching out to the like singer of Weezer, was it? And then getting to go to one of the gigs?
You're the master at this. You're the absolute master at it. You're just killer with that sort of stuff. If you also have some money, one thing that people also don't realize, and I don't mean a crap ton of money, but if you're listening to this, and I know you are because I've spoken to some of you, and you're running an agency that's making...
You're the master at this. You're the absolute master at it. You're just killer with that sort of stuff. If you also have some money, one thing that people also don't realize, and I don't mean a crap ton of money, but if you're listening to this, and I know you are because I've spoken to some of you, and you're running an agency that's making...
uh, 500 K and you want to grow and you're like, you know, spending loads of money on branding agencies, all of this other stuff, take like 10 K of that money. or 15K, reach out to the top person on your list and ask them to do a collab of some sort or ask them what could we do together that would expose me to your audience.
uh, 500 K and you want to grow and you're like, you know, spending loads of money on branding agencies, all of this other stuff, take like 10 K of that money. or 15K, reach out to the top person on your list and ask them to do a collab of some sort or ask them what could we do together that would expose me to your audience.
We did a, and I'm not gonna talk about the number, but we did a collaboration with Chris Do. He's like got a huge, huge design channel And I just went on Instagram, reached out to him and I was like, I'd love to do some sort of collab with you guys. You know, we had zero followers back then. And I just straight up said right from the beginning because I had nothing to offer.
We did a, and I'm not gonna talk about the number, but we did a collaboration with Chris Do. He's like got a huge, huge design channel And I just went on Instagram, reached out to him and I was like, I'd love to do some sort of collab with you guys. You know, we had zero followers back then. And I just straight up said right from the beginning because I had nothing to offer.
I had no, I thought of the whole canvas strategy thing and I was like, I have nothing to offer this guy. He's just too, he's too far ahead of me in this game that we're playing. And so the only thing I can say is, We have a pretty good budget and we'd love to do a collab with you. Done. We did a collab within the next like three weeks or something.
I had no, I thought of the whole canvas strategy thing and I was like, I have nothing to offer this guy. He's just too, he's too far ahead of me in this game that we're playing. And so the only thing I can say is, We have a pretty good budget and we'd love to do a collab with you. Done. We did a collab within the next like three weeks or something.
So I think just being clever with your marketing spend and thinking about over leveraged things versus we're going to do a rebrand versus we're going to throw this into something we don't understand or versus sometimes like...
So I think just being clever with your marketing spend and thinking about over leveraged things versus we're going to do a rebrand versus we're going to throw this into something we don't understand or versus sometimes like...
hiring a marketing agency i hear this a lot people hire a marketing agency to like run their ads these people don't care they don't care about your company necessarily so sometimes it would be better to take that 50k or 10k and just use it on your dream 100 and i heard a really killer one recently my mentor bought his number one dream 100 person a 50 000 guitar and
hiring a marketing agency i hear this a lot people hire a marketing agency to like run their ads these people don't care they don't care about your company necessarily so sometimes it would be better to take that 50k or 10k and just use it on your dream 100 and i heard a really killer one recently my mentor bought his number one dream 100 person a 50 000 guitar and
signed by like a super famous person and brought it person, obviously with permission, brought it personally to the guy's office. And now they're like doing crazy collabs together. It's so cool. And that's the kind of thing people don't think about. He could have spent that on some sort of bullshit marketing thing.
signed by like a super famous person and brought it person, obviously with permission, brought it personally to the guy's office. And now they're like doing crazy collabs together. It's so cool. And that's the kind of thing people don't think about. He could have spent that on some sort of bullshit marketing thing.
He could have spent that on like rebranding or making tons of YouTube videos or whatever it is, but he spent it on buying a guitar for this guy. And I just think that's such a, like, These are the types of things you need to be thinking about if you're looking for a lever. And by the way, that guy also has no social media. He's nowhere. He's nowhere to be found. This is an invisible person.
He could have spent that on like rebranding or making tons of YouTube videos or whatever it is, but he spent it on buying a guitar for this guy. And I just think that's such a, like, These are the types of things you need to be thinking about if you're looking for a lever. And by the way, that guy also has no social media. He's nowhere. He's nowhere to be found. This is an invisible person.
And I just thought that maybe I'll just jump straight into some strategies. They're not already connected. They just kind of all can work. And I don't even know how many there are. It's not something I've ever written down. It's just something I do. Have you heard of the Dream 100 method?
And I just thought that maybe I'll just jump straight into some strategies. They're not already connected. They just kind of all can work. And I don't even know how many there are. It's not something I've ever written down. It's just something I do. Have you heard of the Dream 100 method?
I just love that kind of crap. Guys, I'm not asking you to buy me a 50k guitar. I don't want you turning up to my office with a guitar. But he had an angle. He had a whole thing. It was really just super cool. What do you think about those types of things like these?
I just love that kind of crap. Guys, I'm not asking you to buy me a 50k guitar. I don't want you turning up to my office with a guitar. But he had an angle. He had a whole thing. It was really just super cool. What do you think about those types of things like these?
like, you know, lasering in on one person you think you could have a killer collab with, maybe just offering to pay for it, or maybe just, uh, you know, bringing something interesting to their life. Like for example, a crazy guitar.
like, you know, lasering in on one person you think you could have a killer collab with, maybe just offering to pay for it, or maybe just, uh, you know, bringing something interesting to their life. Like for example, a crazy guitar.
Someone recently brought me this, right? Like... A business partner, we started a deal together and they brought this little teenage engineering thing. Thank you, Alan, by the way. And it's just such a memory. I think it's like $80 or something. And it's such a memorable thing because he knows I love teenage engineering. He knows I like to make music. It doesn't need to be something crazy.
Someone recently brought me this, right? Like... A business partner, we started a deal together and they brought this little teenage engineering thing. Thank you, Alan, by the way. And it's just such a memory. I think it's like $80 or something. And it's such a memorable thing because he knows I love teenage engineering. He knows I like to make music. It doesn't need to be something crazy.
And what was the thing you said you always gift people? Was it a little Buddha or something?
And what was the thing you said you always gift people? Was it a little Buddha or something?
That's good then. It would suck if you're like, yes, I have. And I already talked about it on this podcast.
That's good then. It would suck if you're like, yes, I have. And I already talked about it on this podcast.
That's so cool. You are very, very good at this game, I have to say. You are one of the rare people... You do have a superpower of keeping in touch with people and keeping... Making people feel... And I think it's real. Making people feel thought of. For your audience, just in case you think you need to have superpowers like Greg... I'm the opposite.
That's so cool. You are very, very good at this game, I have to say. You are one of the rare people... You do have a superpower of keeping in touch with people and keeping... Making people feel... And I think it's real. Making people feel thought of. For your audience, just in case you think you need to have superpowers like Greg... I'm the opposite.
I'm like a disaster with keeping up with people as Greg knows, like Greg, you are, you have like the absolute mastery of just, I'm going to send a quick message to Jonathan. I'm going to reach out to this person, you know, everyone on the planet. And I think you have like, almost like a natural inbuilt dream 100 machine inside you. And I'm lazy as fuck.
I'm like a disaster with keeping up with people as Greg knows, like Greg, you are, you have like the absolute mastery of just, I'm going to send a quick message to Jonathan. I'm going to reach out to this person, you know, everyone on the planet. And I think you have like, almost like a natural inbuilt dream 100 machine inside you. And I'm lazy as fuck.
So what I do is I like have my dream 100 and I like focus on one person per year or one thing every two years or one thing every three years. And even that, you know, if you're not trying to build a hundred million dollar company, if you're just trying to do what I'm doing, which is
So what I do is I like have my dream 100 and I like focus on one person per year or one thing every two years or one thing every three years. And even that, you know, if you're not trying to build a hundred million dollar company, if you're just trying to do what I'm doing, which is
bootstrapped under 10 million that you can do this and be lazy and still it's like not true you can't be lazy you can do this be good at what you do keep it consistent and still be pretty successful with it without even what do you think about the angle?
bootstrapped under 10 million that you can do this and be lazy and still it's like not true you can't be lazy you can do this be good at what you do keep it consistent and still be pretty successful with it without even what do you think about the angle?
Before I talk about the Dream 100 method, we need to talk about the Dream 200 method. You've already upgraded. So Dream 100, the idea here is that you try to find other people who have access to the audience that you're looking for. So for example, you want to, I don't know, start a web design agency or just give me a random business and I'll use it as an example.
Before I talk about the Dream 100 method, we need to talk about the Dream 200 method. You've already upgraded. So Dream 100, the idea here is that you try to find other people who have access to the audience that you're looking for. So for example, you want to, I don't know, start a web design agency or just give me a random business and I'll use it as an example.
Actually, Greg, I'm saying here without building any sort of content, without doing any sort of, you know, being an influencer, but obviously I think it goes without saying having content out there. So my, our YouTube channel for AJ and smart, having content out there being like somewhat visible, that makes everything 10 times easier.
Actually, Greg, I'm saying here without building any sort of content, without doing any sort of, you know, being an influencer, but obviously I think it goes without saying having content out there. So my, our YouTube channel for AJ and smart, having content out there being like somewhat visible, that makes everything 10 times easier.
Then that's almost like a, you know, moving it from hard mode to easy mode, right?
Then that's almost like a, you know, moving it from hard mode to easy mode, right?
I'm lazy and I'm not trying to build a company that makes... I mean, look, I am... I think that a big part of it is that I don't really like to be a public figure. Yeah. And I, I kind of like, you know, okay. If I do a tweet, right. No one is, no one is following me on Twitter or X, right.
I'm lazy and I'm not trying to build a company that makes... I mean, look, I am... I think that a big part of it is that I don't really like to be a public figure. Yeah. And I, I kind of like, you know, okay. If I do a tweet, right. No one is, no one is following me on Twitter or X, right.
If I do a post on X, I'm worried the whole day that I've said something bad that I'll, and I'll like have to go back and re-explain myself or something. I'm just like a, I'm not really good with this sort of putting opinions out there and all of that kind of stuff. I used to do it in my early 20s. And I used to almost thrive on a bit of the controversy of the things I would post.
If I do a post on X, I'm worried the whole day that I've said something bad that I'll, and I'll like have to go back and re-explain myself or something. I'm just like a, I'm not really good with this sort of putting opinions out there and all of that kind of stuff. I used to do it in my early 20s. And I used to almost thrive on a bit of the controversy of the things I would post.
And now I'm like, I want to be not... Checking stuff on, which is why I actually like YouTube. I want to actually, that would be one of my other examples. If you don't want to build like a personal brand, if you don't want to get out there and be like, I'm also not naturally good at it the way you are.
And now I'm like, I want to be not... Checking stuff on, which is why I actually like YouTube. I want to actually, that would be one of my other examples. If you don't want to build like a personal brand, if you don't want to get out there and be like, I'm also not naturally good at it the way you are.
I think you have a really, you've kind of almost got this brain that's optimized to the max for being really good at regular content. I look at your ex account and it's just like, you're nonstop. Yeah. And I think you'll always beat someone like me if we were competing in that sort of game.
I think you have a really, you've kind of almost got this brain that's optimized to the max for being really good at regular content. I look at your ex account and it's just like, you're nonstop. Yeah. And I think you'll always beat someone like me if we were competing in that sort of game.
And I think that's also why people who make a lot of content are actually usually the most successful people. It's impossible to compete with it. If it was like a video game or a board game, it's like the overpowered skill is the ability to...
And I think that's also why people who make a lot of content are actually usually the most successful people. It's impossible to compete with it. If it was like a video game or a board game, it's like the overpowered skill is the ability to...
keep producing content, even when there's lots of like annoying little fucking comments that you're like, you know, I'll get one comment, negative comment on a YouTube video and it will ruin my day. You can get like probably 10 and you're like, whatever, I'll just make the next video. I just have thin skin for that sort of thing.
keep producing content, even when there's lots of like annoying little fucking comments that you're like, you know, I'll get one comment, negative comment on a YouTube video and it will ruin my day. You can get like probably 10 and you're like, whatever, I'll just make the next video. I just have thin skin for that sort of thing.
And so that's why I naturally lean towards methods which are less about me creating content, I guess.
And so that's why I naturally lean towards methods which are less about me creating content, I guess.
I do need to put on some weight to be fair. I want to talk about YouTube for a second. There's a channel I want to give a shout out to. One of my mentors is the... Founder, that's actually the best way to say it without giving away too much information. One of the founders of this company is a mentor to me. It's mastering.com.
I do need to put on some weight to be fair. I want to talk about YouTube for a second. There's a channel I want to give a shout out to. One of my mentors is the... Founder, that's actually the best way to say it without giving away too much information. One of the founders of this company is a mentor to me. It's mastering.com.
And I think they've really, in my opinion, mastered the art of creating content in a way for YouTube in a way that's ludicrously over the top valuable. And number two, isn't focused on the individuals and the individual characters who are posting the content. I've been trying to do this at AJ and Smart for years. I've not succeeded with it, but they've completely nailed it.
And I think they've really, in my opinion, mastered the art of creating content in a way for YouTube in a way that's ludicrously over the top valuable. And number two, isn't focused on the individuals and the individual characters who are posting the content. I've been trying to do this at AJ and Smart for years. I've not succeeded with it, but they've completely nailed it.
If you check their recent videos, sometimes their videos are 11 hours long, 12 hours long, 15 hours long. And they put these insanely valuable tutorials out there. And then the people who find those tutorials valuable, are obviously going to check out who's this company who's giving away all of this insane value.
If you check their recent videos, sometimes their videos are 11 hours long, 12 hours long, 15 hours long. And they put these insanely valuable tutorials out there. And then the people who find those tutorials valuable, are obviously going to check out who's this company who's giving away all of this insane value.
So if I were a web designer today trying to start a company and I wanted to have people reach out to me on this next level, like the next level is content creation, but I wasn't super comfortable being right up front as the face and giving my opinions, then I would probably copy what mastering.com does.
So if I were a web designer today trying to start a company and I wanted to have people reach out to me on this next level, like the next level is content creation, but I wasn't super comfortable being right up front as the face and giving my opinions, then I would probably copy what mastering.com does.
Just to be clear, I have zero affiliation with mastering.com besides the fact that I pay one of their founders to teach me stuff or like to mentor me. So I don't care if they succeed or not. I just think it's a really cool YouTube channel.
Just to be clear, I have zero affiliation with mastering.com besides the fact that I pay one of their founders to teach me stuff or like to mentor me. So I don't care if they succeed or not. I just think it's a really cool YouTube channel.
Fine. So you want to start a web design agency. And so you, and you also think I should, I probably would like to work with like founders and not, you know, massive corporate. So I want to work with like small businesses or startups and I want a web design agency. Okay. I'm starting it tomorrow and I have no social media presence and I don't know what an ad is.
Fine. So you want to start a web design agency. And so you, and you also think I should, I probably would like to work with like founders and not, you know, massive corporate. So I want to work with like small businesses or startups and I want a web design agency. Okay. I'm starting it tomorrow and I have no social media presence and I don't know what an ad is.
Here's what I would do. Absolutely, yes. And here's specifically what I would do. I would be on Reddit, I would be on Qt Quora, and I would be in 20 different groups on school and all these different platforms. And I see a question coming up. It's like, how do I, like, what's the quickest way to make a landing page in Framer that's completely responsive and blah, blah, blah, has a checkout?
Here's what I would do. Absolutely, yes. And here's specifically what I would do. I would be on Reddit, I would be on Qt Quora, and I would be in 20 different groups on school and all these different platforms. And I see a question coming up. It's like, how do I, like, what's the quickest way to make a landing page in Framer that's completely responsive and blah, blah, blah, has a checkout?
What I would do is I would sit at my computer, turn on Loom and make a goddamn five hour from zero to the pages made video with no cuts, like maybe going to the bathroom or something and then cutting those bits out or bringing the camera with you. And that would be one of my YouTube videos. And I would then send it to the person who asked the question.
What I would do is I would sit at my computer, turn on Loom and make a goddamn five hour from zero to the pages made video with no cuts, like maybe going to the bathroom or something and then cutting those bits out or bringing the camera with you. And that would be one of my YouTube videos. And I would then send it to the person who asked the question.
And they're going to be like, what the actual hell? this person's like way too much, like that's way too much value. So that's what I would be doing. So, but yes, it's like making courses, but without the baggage of making courses, because making courses is like a looming stressful thing. This is just, I'm making a video to show you how to do the thing in my lo-fi way, but I'm good at what I do.
And they're going to be like, what the actual hell? this person's like way too much, like that's way too much value. So that's what I would be doing. So, but yes, it's like making courses, but without the baggage of making courses, because making courses is like a looming stressful thing. This is just, I'm making a video to show you how to do the thing in my lo-fi way, but I'm good at what I do.
And here's how I do it. Here's how I would do it using Framer or whatever it is.
And here's how I do it. Here's how I would do it using Framer or whatever it is.
We're just sitting in our laptops.
We're just sitting in our laptops.
And yet you're dominating.
And yet you're dominating.
The nude videos will be in 4K. Yeah. yeah it's true so um yeah that's kind of where i'm at wait you were just about to say something really like profound and i was i think we got distracted by the 720p thing i think you were just about to say something big yeah me too but i haven't i haven't had enough coffee this is the what was i even talking about yeah i also don't know
The nude videos will be in 4K. Yeah. yeah it's true so um yeah that's kind of where i'm at wait you were just about to say something really like profound and i was i think we got distracted by the 720p thing i think you were just about to say something big yeah me too but i haven't i haven't had enough coffee this is the what was i even talking about yeah i also don't know
I got so distracted by the 4k thing. Um, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. We were talking about making these long form YouTube videos and the fact that it doesn't have to be high quality. Totally.
I got so distracted by the 4k thing. Um, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. We were talking about making these long form YouTube videos and the fact that it doesn't have to be high quality. Totally.
Look at the mastering.com videos.
Look at the mastering.com videos.
Low quality is the new high quality.
Low quality is the new high quality.
A hundred percent. 100 lowest quality is the new 4k.
A hundred percent. 100 lowest quality is the new 4k.
And I'm one of those people who thinks that ads don't work, even though that's not true. But anyway, it would take me too long to figure that out anyway. So what's the first thing you do? Well, one of the first things you can do is a strategy called Dream 100. The idea behind it is you literally make a list. You make like an Excel sheet or a Google sheet.
And I'm one of those people who thinks that ads don't work, even though that's not true. But anyway, it would take me too long to figure that out anyway. So what's the first thing you do? Well, one of the first things you can do is a strategy called Dream 100. The idea behind it is you literally make a list. You make like an Excel sheet or a Google sheet.
Yeah, you do for sure.
Yeah, you do for sure.
Yeah. Also, just don't forget on YouTube, a lot of people just want to have something on in the background and learn through osmosis. So if you look at the mastering.com videos or I've been recently looking at my favorite YouTube video this week was a two and a half hour like review of the new OPXY from Teenage Engineering.
Yeah. Also, just don't forget on YouTube, a lot of people just want to have something on in the background and learn through osmosis. So if you look at the mastering.com videos or I've been recently looking at my favorite YouTube video this week was a two and a half hour like review of the new OPXY from Teenage Engineering.
And it's just two guys literally, it's just like a video camera pointed down at the device and the person pressing buttons on it. That's something I'll passively watch, but get a lot of value from. So it doesn't need to be obsessively high quality with slides, with whatever, just showing the people how to do the thing and doing it like showing how good you are at the thing as well.
And it's just two guys literally, it's just like a video camera pointed down at the device and the person pressing buttons on it. That's something I'll passively watch, but get a lot of value from. So it doesn't need to be obsessively high quality with slides, with whatever, just showing the people how to do the thing and doing it like showing how good you are at the thing as well.
In the end, you know, when these people are watching it, they're going to be like, can I just get Jonathan to do it? Actually, I don't want to watch our video.
In the end, you know, when these people are watching it, they're going to be like, can I just get Jonathan to do it? Actually, I don't want to watch our video.
Oh, you're welcome, man. I'm trying to think, is there anything else? So dream 100 going to where people are just, you know, getting together and talking about the topic, just going to where your audience already is, um, thinking about things like lower, you know, high effort, low quality content options. Is there anything else?
Oh, you're welcome, man. I'm trying to think, is there anything else? So dream 100 going to where people are just, you know, getting together and talking about the topic, just going to where your audience already is, um, thinking about things like lower, you know, high effort, low quality content options. Is there anything else?
Like it's, if it's about how are we spending this first month generating a couple of new clients without building a big personal brand and you don't have a list, Those work really well. Those, for me, are the things that I recommend or the things that I do with people.
Like it's, if it's about how are we spending this first month generating a couple of new clients without building a big personal brand and you don't have a list, Those work really well. Those, for me, are the things that I recommend or the things that I do with people.
I think the Dream 100 thing... You know what I'm annoyed about? At AJ and Smart, we talk about this Dream 100 thing all the time, but it only comes back to me once every two years when somehow we've stagnated, like our revenue has stagnated, our profits are going down, and I'm like, yeah, but we're doing this and we're doing that, and I'm tweaking all these little things.
I think the Dream 100 thing... You know what I'm annoyed about? At AJ and Smart, we talk about this Dream 100 thing all the time, but it only comes back to me once every two years when somehow we've stagnated, like our revenue has stagnated, our profits are going down, and I'm like, yeah, but we're doing this and we're doing that, and I'm tweaking all these little things.
And you've probably heard this quote where it's like, don't be the lion that chases the rabbits or something about lions and rabbits and get the antelope instead of the rabbits. Great quote, right? But I end up looking at all the small things and trying to optimize the crap out of them. And it brings up our revenue by 1% or 2%. And then it just clicks with me. And I'm like, wait a minute.
And you've probably heard this quote where it's like, don't be the lion that chases the rabbits or something about lions and rabbits and get the antelope instead of the rabbits. Great quote, right? But I end up looking at all the small things and trying to optimize the crap out of them. And it brings up our revenue by 1% or 2%. And then it just clicks with me. And I'm like, wait a minute.
And on the left, you make a list of all of the people who you think would be already talking to your audience or would have access to your audience. It can be people or it can be organizations. So off the top of your head, Greg, Can you think of anyone who has an audience of people that speaks to founders and startup owners who might at some point want to have a website? Can you think of anyone?
And on the left, you make a list of all of the people who you think would be already talking to your audience or would have access to your audience. It can be people or it can be organizations. So off the top of your head, Greg, Can you think of anyone who has an audience of people that speaks to founders and startup owners who might at some point want to have a website? Can you think of anyone?
What if I just reached out to this person and we did something together? And usually that's the step function explosive growth thing that happens when I go back to the goddamn dream 100 list and just look at it again and remind myself, oh, yeah. Like, for example, I give you a clear example of this. We were thinking about, OK, we're doing our Facebook ads.
What if I just reached out to this person and we did something together? And usually that's the step function explosive growth thing that happens when I go back to the goddamn dream 100 list and just look at it again and remind myself, oh, yeah. Like, for example, I give you a clear example of this. We were thinking about, OK, we're doing our Facebook ads.
We're doing all this other stuff where, you know, we're tweaking the funnel in all these little ways. And we're like, but how... Looking at the email list, where did this huge bump come from? Like, that's basically 80% of the whole year. And then we were like, oh, we did a webinar with this partner. Like, we did a webinar for this person's list. Why the...
We're doing all this other stuff where, you know, we're tweaking the funnel in all these little ways. And we're like, but how... Looking at the email list, where did this huge bump come from? Like, that's basically 80% of the whole year. And then we were like, oh, we did a webinar with this partner. Like, we did a webinar for this person's list. Why the...
fuck, am I not doing a webinar with this person again then? It's because we forget how it's just still high. The hardest thing about running a business is trying to discern what's high leverage and what's just like menial tasks that feel good but do nothing.
fuck, am I not doing a webinar with this person again then? It's because we forget how it's just still high. The hardest thing about running a business is trying to discern what's high leverage and what's just like menial tasks that feel good but do nothing.
And honestly, just starting a business and focusing on something like Dream 100, focusing on something like being in the place where your customers are, these are like hyper high leverage things to do and to be good at.
And honestly, just starting a business and focusing on something like Dream 100, focusing on something like being in the place where your customers are, these are like hyper high leverage things to do and to be good at.
Yes.
Yes.
And I want to know who the top five people on your Dream 100 are. Let me know in the comments now.
And I want to know who the top five people on your Dream 100 are. Let me know in the comments now.
Thanks so much, Greg. See ya.
Thanks so much, Greg. See ya.
Yeah, let's make it live. Top left, we have the partner name or company name or person name. So back to the question, I want to start a web design agency. Okay, I want to somehow think about, not thinking about how to contact them, but who are the people who are talking to the audience that I want to have? So question one is,
Yeah, let's make it live. Top left, we have the partner name or company name or person name. So back to the question, I want to start a web design agency. Okay, I want to somehow think about, not thinking about how to contact them, but who are the people who are talking to the audience that I want to have? So question one is,
Can you think of anyone off the top of your head who's speaking with an audience of startups, startup owners or founders who you think might at some point want a website designed for them?
Can you think of anyone off the top of your head who's speaking with an audience of startups, startup owners or founders who you think might at some point want a website designed for them?
Yeah. Since you are an example of someone's dream 100. So you would be at the very top for a listener of this podcast.
Yeah. Since you are an example of someone's dream 100. So you would be at the very top for a listener of this podcast.
So you're and then you just fill this out. So your main website, you just fill in their main website. You link to all their social media stuff. You probably want to blur that out.
So you're and then you just fill this out. So your main website, you just fill in their main website. You link to all their social media stuff. You probably want to blur that out.
You try to fill this whole thing out. And get a feeling for that person and how big is their audience, all of that. So this is like a research project, basically. And if you honestly spend one day just filling this out, let's jump to the second one already. Who would be another person who speaks with founders and people who might want their website designed?
You try to fill this whole thing out. And get a feeling for that person and how big is their audience, all of that. So this is like a research project, basically. And if you honestly spend one day just filling this out, let's jump to the second one already. Who would be another person who speaks with founders and people who might want their website designed?
Product Hunt is a website which you could do a partnership with. So yes, Product Hunt.
Product Hunt is a website which you could do a partnership with. So yes, Product Hunt.
Theoretically, it can be people or companies. It's only worth putting a company there if you think that there's something you could potentially do with that company. For example, if that company has a podcast, which would also have that audience. So I would say it's worth it at least for this first pass to put Product Hunt on there.
Theoretically, it can be people or companies. It's only worth putting a company there if you think that there's something you could potentially do with that company. For example, if that company has a podcast, which would also have that audience. So I would say it's worth it at least for this first pass to put Product Hunt on there.
I would also put like, okay, thinking about my city, looking at different meetups, finding, oh, there's an entrepreneur's organization meetup happening every Thursday in the city. And so I'm going to figure out who runs that. And I would put them in the list as well. How can they put me in front of those people? That would be something I'm thinking about.
I would also put like, okay, thinking about my city, looking at different meetups, finding, oh, there's an entrepreneur's organization meetup happening every Thursday in the city. And so I'm going to figure out who runs that. And I would put them in the list as well. How can they put me in front of those people? That would be something I'm thinking about.
So step one is just making a list of people or organizations or meetups or like containers where the people you want to work with are already being talked to or already being interacted with and are already gathering essentially.
So step one is just making a list of people or organizations or meetups or like containers where the people you want to work with are already being talked to or already being interacted with and are already gathering essentially.
So this is like step one. Now you have a list of people that might be able to like massively... It might be that contacting one of these people gets you more leads or gets you more traffic than doing all of the other stuff, like doing all the social media stuff and doing all the other things you could be doing.
So this is like step one. Now you have a list of people that might be able to like massively... It might be that contacting one of these people gets you more leads or gets you more traffic than doing all of the other stuff, like doing all the social media stuff and doing all the other things you could be doing.
So for example, let's say someone is thinking, okay, out of this list, I've made a list of 100. By the way, a lot of people just do 10. A lot of people just do 20. Now your next step is figuring out what could I do or what could I offer this person or organization
So for example, let's say someone is thinking, okay, out of this list, I've made a list of 100. By the way, a lot of people just do 10. A lot of people just do 20. Now your next step is figuring out what could I do or what could I offer this person or organization
That would put me in front of their audience or that would somehow expose me to their audience, but would also give them a lot of value. Like very simple question in your mind, like what can I do to either have a partnership with them or give them value? So they put me in front of the audience. One option is paying them. So I'll give you an example.
That would put me in front of their audience or that would somehow expose me to their audience, but would also give them a lot of value. Like very simple question in your mind, like what can I do to either have a partnership with them or give them value? So they put me in front of the audience. One option is paying them. So I'll give you an example.
Early on in my company's history, I realized a lot of our audience is reading Daring Fireball, John Gruber's website. And so I just straight up paid for an ad on his blog and it got us a crap ton of traffic. So that was just like a paid way of doing it. A second example is...
Early on in my company's history, I realized a lot of our audience is reading Daring Fireball, John Gruber's website. And so I just straight up paid for an ad on his blog and it got us a crap ton of traffic. So that was just like a paid way of doing it. A second example is...
About six months ago, I reached out to a guy called Greg Eisenberg and I pitched him on an idea of me being an occasional host of this podcast. And that also generated a ton of leads for me. I don't post on any social media.
About six months ago, I reached out to a guy called Greg Eisenberg and I pitched him on an idea of me being an occasional host of this podcast. And that also generated a ton of leads for me. I don't post on any social media.
You see, I'm a disaster at social media, but I'm able to generate leads using a system like Dream 100, a system where I just look for who are essentially the people who are just already great at talking to the audience. People already like them. They're already like a face and a trusted person in those people's lives.
You see, I'm a disaster at social media, but I'm able to generate leads using a system like Dream 100, a system where I just look for who are essentially the people who are just already great at talking to the audience. People already like them. They're already like a face and a trusted person in those people's lives.
And can I just be a slug hanging on to the back of them and just somehow be exposed to their audience? So that's one really simple first step that you can do to start getting traffic to whatever it is you're doing. There's loads of steps and loads of ways you can do this wrong, but there's a strategy for reaching out to people. So that you don't fuck it up. And it's called a canvas strategy.
And can I just be a slug hanging on to the back of them and just somehow be exposed to their audience? So that's one really simple first step that you can do to start getting traffic to whatever it is you're doing. There's loads of steps and loads of ways you can do this wrong, but there's a strategy for reaching out to people. So that you don't fuck it up. And it's called a canvas strategy.
So once you have your list of people and you're like, okay, how do I actually reach out to people who are super busy already and already like don't need anything from a nobody like me? Usually that's what stops people because they're like, there's no point in me reaching out to Greg. Like he's already got a huge audience. There's really nothing I can do for him.
So once you have your list of people and you're like, okay, how do I actually reach out to people who are super busy already and already like don't need anything from a nobody like me? Usually that's what stops people because they're like, there's no point in me reaching out to Greg. Like he's already got a huge audience. There's really nothing I can do for him.
That's because you haven't really learned any strategies for reaching out to people. And my favorite one is called a canvas strategy. Google it. It's a thing that Ryan Holiday wrote. And the idea here is that it's a system that helps you figure out how to be helpful for people who are gatekeepers or above you in the sort of business hierarchy.
That's because you haven't really learned any strategies for reaching out to people. And my favorite one is called a canvas strategy. Google it. It's a thing that Ryan Holiday wrote. And the idea here is that it's a system that helps you figure out how to be helpful for people who are gatekeepers or above you in the sort of business hierarchy.
We did an entire episode on the Canvas strategy, Greg, at one point. So maybe it's worth just like linking to that. We actually did a full episode on it, you and I, sometime in the summer. But the idea here is Don't just reach out to Greg and be like, hey, can I come on your podcast?
We did an entire episode on the Canvas strategy, Greg, at one point. So maybe it's worth just like linking to that. We actually did a full episode on it, you and I, sometime in the summer. But the idea here is Don't just reach out to Greg and be like, hey, can I come on your podcast?
Because Greg's going to be like, it's almost insulting to do that because he knows you just want to have access to his audience. But for example, what I did when I reached out to you, Greg, even though we already knew each other, I still took it seriously. I made like a pitch for why it would be worth your while having me on your podcast and
Because Greg's going to be like, it's almost insulting to do that because he knows you just want to have access to his audience. But for example, what I did when I reached out to you, Greg, even though we already knew each other, I still took it seriously. I made like a pitch for why it would be worth your while having me on your podcast and
And I put effort into it, even though I could have been lazy and just said, how can I come on your podcast? It's like, it's almost insulting. So reaching out to people is an art. And we did an episode called Canvas Strategy. And I think you should just link to that. That is the art of reaching out to people, in my opinion.
And I put effort into it, even though I could have been lazy and just said, how can I come on your podcast? It's like, it's almost insulting. So reaching out to people is an art. And we did an episode called Canvas Strategy. And I think you should just link to that. That is the art of reaching out to people, in my opinion.
Way more. So... probably that's actually a great question let me think so we've been around for 14 years 14 let me do a little bit of math this is actually a great question i've never thought about this so that's like i didn't know you could do math honestly i'm quite bad at math for being a ceo of a company i'd say not me personally but my business has made 50 to 60 million euro just from that
Way more. So... probably that's actually a great question let me think so we've been around for 14 years 14 let me do a little bit of math this is actually a great question i've never thought about this so that's like i didn't know you could do math honestly i'm quite bad at math for being a ceo of a company i'd say not me personally but my business has made 50 to 60 million euro just from that
Oh, sorry. Dollars. Yeah. Well, then it's a little bit more. I'm trying to be accurate about it. No one's ever asked me that question. We've been around for 14 years.
Oh, sorry. Dollars. Yeah. Well, then it's a little bit more. I'm trying to be accurate about it. No one's ever asked me that question. We've been around for 14 years.
Euros. Yeah. I'd say like conservatively, being really conservative, I'd say 40 to 50 million, because we also use ads and I can't 100% figure that out. But I'll give you one very clean and clear example. Jake Knapp, the guy who wrote the book Sprint, I reached out to him a couple of years ago. I talked about it in Canvas Strategy.
Euros. Yeah. I'd say like conservatively, being really conservative, I'd say 40 to 50 million, because we also use ads and I can't 100% figure that out. But I'll give you one very clean and clear example. Jake Knapp, the guy who wrote the book Sprint, I reached out to him a couple of years ago. I talked about it in Canvas Strategy.
Today we're going to talk about how you get clients or how you get leads without needing to be a social media influencer, without needing to even use social media necessarily, and also without needing to create content. Thought that might be interesting for people. Like this kind of cold start problem of finding an audience, finding leads, finding, like building a list, but like out of nothing.
Today we're going to talk about how you get clients or how you get leads without needing to be a social media influencer, without needing to even use social media necessarily, and also without needing to create content. Thought that might be interesting for people. Like this kind of cold start problem of finding an audience, finding leads, finding, like building a list, but like out of nothing.
This one single connection, instead of me going on loads of podcasts and doing loads of things, I zeroed in on one person. I was like, Jake is talking to our audience. Our audience buys his book. That's one specific person who really is the perfect partner for AJ and Smart and nobody else.
This one single connection, instead of me going on loads of podcasts and doing loads of things, I zeroed in on one person. I was like, Jake is talking to our audience. Our audience buys his book. That's one specific person who really is the perfect partner for AJ and Smart and nobody else.
I put all of my effort into that one person, into really trying to figure out how we could have a really good partnership for him as well. That created our entire training business, which now we're working with corporates all over the world since that book came out, basically. And just us training people on the design sprint has been responsible for tens of millions of dollars.
I put all of my effort into that one person, into really trying to figure out how we could have a really good partnership for him as well. That created our entire training business, which now we're working with corporates all over the world since that book came out, basically. And just us training people on the design sprint has been responsible for tens of millions of dollars.
But that would never have happened if we had not met Jake. even just being on this podcast, like just spending time thinking about how I can be valuable to you, probably within 12 months will have been worth 3 or 4 million. So that's pretty amazing. Like, thank you. No worries.
But that would never have happened if we had not met Jake. even just being on this podcast, like just spending time thinking about how I can be valuable to you, probably within 12 months will have been worth 3 or 4 million. So that's pretty amazing. Like, thank you. No worries.
You do a lot as well. You're a busy man.
You do a lot as well. You're a busy man.
Yeah, and I think like it is... One of the strategies I use, it's not the only strategy, but I think it's one of these strategies. By the way, I didn't come up with it. I just learned it somewhere. I don't even remember where. But I was like, this seems too easy. You just write the names of the people who are talking to your audience and you reach out to them and that gets you clients.
The only catch is you have to... Be good at what you do, like as in you have to be able to talk about the thing. So if you're a web designer and you absolutely suck at web design, it won't work at all. So it's only going to work if you are like the real deal, as in if you can do the thing, but then it really works. Who's trying to... Oh, sorry. Nevermind. Someone's trying to call me.
I was telling you before we started this call, I'm having a really annoying day. It is the most annoying day at AJ and smart of the year.
I'm going to bring all the rage onto this.
Hey, I'm going to come on air. You know, people in your audience maybe need to know that we also, well, especially me, are also sometimes just having an annoying bad day running a business. Because I think they probably think we're just like, every day is easy. It's all super simple. Anyway, let's get to the next strategy. Let's do it. What's number two? So dream 100 is number one.
You don't have to do 100, but just even the research, even just researching the people, researching the potential partners is going to give you a ton of ideas on, you know, the different potential ways that you could reach out to different people and all that. You'll also be shocked.
Oh, there's people like I never heard of in a super niche part of the market that are talking to like 20 people who could completely change my life. So that's another thing. Okay, the next thing, it doesn't really have a name. It's just figure out where your audience is congregating and spending their time and start spending your time there too.
That could be interesting to your audience.
And start delivering extreme levels of value to the places where those people are spending time. Let me give you an example. There are a lot of groups for entrepreneurs. Like for example, are you still running a school group? I am. So you have a school group, community, what is it called actually?
So StartupEmpire.co, it's probably like, this is not an ad for StartupEmpire.co. I'm just giving an example. I do not get anything if someone joins StartupEmpire.co. So does it cost something or is it free?
Oh yeah, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk. I saw one of the recent episodes and it just sounds like I'm drumming the whole time.
Like what, if you wouldn't mind?
OK, $149 you pay and I guess you can cancel anytime. So let's say you're thinking about this strategically and you're thinking, OK, where can I find people who are hanging out who could potentially be my clients? I'm not going to recommend people go in and spam your group. Don't worry.
So if I was looking at this, what I'm looking for is, OK, that's potentially a high quality place where people are hanging out, which maybe I might want to do work with. So I'm going to join that group. I'm going to spend the entire first month just being the most valuable person in that group. Zero spamming, zero telling people to reach out to me and DM me and trying to get work out of it.
Just being the most valuable person in the group. When people are asking questions about web design, here you go. Here's a question. Don't even follow up with me. You know also that people struggle with this.
So you just post like free templates, whatever it is, whatever you can do to make yourself an extremely valuable person in that group while also observing the challenges people have in that group. That's an amazing way to start lightly generating leads for yourself.
There's a ton of free groups on platforms like Discord, School, Facebook, whatever it is, and even the comments of YouTube channels that are dedicated to specific topics. And in these groups, you can just go in there and deliver as much value as possible.
And doing that alone will generate leads for you for free or for a very low price per month, like the price of one day of failed experiments on Facebook running ads. And so for me, if I'm starting a company tomorrow, Day one, I'm writing out my dream 100 list. Day two, I'm joining as many goddamn communities as possible. I'm lurking in Reddit groups as well.
I'm looking at different type of entrepreneurial Reddit groups. I'm looking into the places where these people are congregating. And I am just being the most valuable person. Another thing that I used to do is when I started to try to become like a well-known facilitator,
i'm on quora i've got like the paid quora account or whatever it is and i'm giving people the most detailed answers no chat gpt just clean detailed extremely like over the top better than everyone else's answers and i'm just trying to be valuable if you're thinking about how do i generate leads as fast as possible it still takes some time.
But if you just do Dream 100 and just go to where people are congregating and deliver value, within one month, you're going to start getting that momentum. It's like absolutely ridiculously easy. And that's still without you having to be an influencer, without you having to create content, you're just reacting to other people's stuff.
And without you having to run ads or speak at conferences or release a book, it's just the basics of... getting people interested in what you're doing and seeing the quality of what you can do. Those two things will get you like 80% of your clients in the first few months if you just do it like that.
Yeah, I work with a lot of people or I chat with a lot of entrepreneurs who never use social media. They've never run ads before. There's no chance of them going on X and posting regularly or even making YouTube videos. And then they're like, how do I get leads? How do I do this? And so I... talk about this a lot, but I don't think I've ever made content specifically about how to do it.
That's an amazing idea. And I also think turning on all notifications for your Dream 100 as well. Just any of the people who are in that list of people who are talking to your audience, they're probably the same people you're talking about. I actually somehow never thought about the fact that it makes sense to turn on notifications so you can jump in there and reply to them.
But yeah, any time you can deliver value also to the creator by being a helpful person in the comments, also by sharing the creator's stuff so that they have the feeling that you actually care about what they do and that you like what they do and that you're spreading it. I think that's a fantastic idea.
And you can see all of these are like layers that you put on top of each other for the machine to start working. I love that one. I remember you told me a story, you told it on the podcast of like you reaching out to the like singer of Weezer, was it? And then getting to go to one of the gigs?
You're the master at this. You're the absolute master at it. You're just killer with that sort of stuff. If you also have some money, one thing that people also don't realize, and I don't mean a crap ton of money, but if you're listening to this, and I know you are because I've spoken to some of you, and you're running an agency that's making...
uh, 500 K and you want to grow and you're like, you know, spending loads of money on branding agencies, all of this other stuff, take like 10 K of that money. or 15K, reach out to the top person on your list and ask them to do a collab of some sort or ask them what could we do together that would expose me to your audience.
We did a, and I'm not gonna talk about the number, but we did a collaboration with Chris Do. He's like got a huge, huge design channel And I just went on Instagram, reached out to him and I was like, I'd love to do some sort of collab with you guys. You know, we had zero followers back then. And I just straight up said right from the beginning because I had nothing to offer.
I had no, I thought of the whole canvas strategy thing and I was like, I have nothing to offer this guy. He's just too, he's too far ahead of me in this game that we're playing. And so the only thing I can say is, We have a pretty good budget and we'd love to do a collab with you. Done. We did a collab within the next like three weeks or something.
So I think just being clever with your marketing spend and thinking about over leveraged things versus we're going to do a rebrand versus we're going to throw this into something we don't understand or versus sometimes like...
hiring a marketing agency i hear this a lot people hire a marketing agency to like run their ads these people don't care they don't care about your company necessarily so sometimes it would be better to take that 50k or 10k and just use it on your dream 100 and i heard a really killer one recently my mentor bought his number one dream 100 person a 50 000 guitar and
signed by like a super famous person and brought it person, obviously with permission, brought it personally to the guy's office. And now they're like doing crazy collabs together. It's so cool. And that's the kind of thing people don't think about. He could have spent that on some sort of bullshit marketing thing.
He could have spent that on like rebranding or making tons of YouTube videos or whatever it is, but he spent it on buying a guitar for this guy. And I just think that's such a, like, These are the types of things you need to be thinking about if you're looking for a lever. And by the way, that guy also has no social media. He's nowhere. He's nowhere to be found. This is an invisible person.
And I just thought that maybe I'll just jump straight into some strategies. They're not already connected. They just kind of all can work. And I don't even know how many there are. It's not something I've ever written down. It's just something I do. Have you heard of the Dream 100 method?
I just love that kind of crap. Guys, I'm not asking you to buy me a 50k guitar. I don't want you turning up to my office with a guitar. But he had an angle. He had a whole thing. It was really just super cool. What do you think about those types of things like these?
like, you know, lasering in on one person you think you could have a killer collab with, maybe just offering to pay for it, or maybe just, uh, you know, bringing something interesting to their life. Like for example, a crazy guitar.
Someone recently brought me this, right? Like... A business partner, we started a deal together and they brought this little teenage engineering thing. Thank you, Alan, by the way. And it's just such a memory. I think it's like $80 or something. And it's such a memorable thing because he knows I love teenage engineering. He knows I like to make music. It doesn't need to be something crazy.
And what was the thing you said you always gift people? Was it a little Buddha or something?
That's good then. It would suck if you're like, yes, I have. And I already talked about it on this podcast.
That's so cool. You are very, very good at this game, I have to say. You are one of the rare people... You do have a superpower of keeping in touch with people and keeping... Making people feel... And I think it's real. Making people feel thought of. For your audience, just in case you think you need to have superpowers like Greg... I'm the opposite.
I'm like a disaster with keeping up with people as Greg knows, like Greg, you are, you have like the absolute mastery of just, I'm going to send a quick message to Jonathan. I'm going to reach out to this person, you know, everyone on the planet. And I think you have like, almost like a natural inbuilt dream 100 machine inside you. And I'm lazy as fuck.
So what I do is I like have my dream 100 and I like focus on one person per year or one thing every two years or one thing every three years. And even that, you know, if you're not trying to build a hundred million dollar company, if you're just trying to do what I'm doing, which is
bootstrapped under 10 million that you can do this and be lazy and still it's like not true you can't be lazy you can do this be good at what you do keep it consistent and still be pretty successful with it without even what do you think about the angle?
Before I talk about the Dream 100 method, we need to talk about the Dream 200 method. You've already upgraded. So Dream 100, the idea here is that you try to find other people who have access to the audience that you're looking for. So for example, you want to, I don't know, start a web design agency or just give me a random business and I'll use it as an example.
Actually, Greg, I'm saying here without building any sort of content, without doing any sort of, you know, being an influencer, but obviously I think it goes without saying having content out there. So my, our YouTube channel for AJ and smart, having content out there being like somewhat visible, that makes everything 10 times easier.
Then that's almost like a, you know, moving it from hard mode to easy mode, right?
I'm lazy and I'm not trying to build a company that makes... I mean, look, I am... I think that a big part of it is that I don't really like to be a public figure. Yeah. And I, I kind of like, you know, okay. If I do a tweet, right. No one is, no one is following me on Twitter or X, right.
If I do a post on X, I'm worried the whole day that I've said something bad that I'll, and I'll like have to go back and re-explain myself or something. I'm just like a, I'm not really good with this sort of putting opinions out there and all of that kind of stuff. I used to do it in my early 20s. And I used to almost thrive on a bit of the controversy of the things I would post.
And now I'm like, I want to be not... Checking stuff on, which is why I actually like YouTube. I want to actually, that would be one of my other examples. If you don't want to build like a personal brand, if you don't want to get out there and be like, I'm also not naturally good at it the way you are.
I think you have a really, you've kind of almost got this brain that's optimized to the max for being really good at regular content. I look at your ex account and it's just like, you're nonstop. Yeah. And I think you'll always beat someone like me if we were competing in that sort of game.
And I think that's also why people who make a lot of content are actually usually the most successful people. It's impossible to compete with it. If it was like a video game or a board game, it's like the overpowered skill is the ability to...
keep producing content, even when there's lots of like annoying little fucking comments that you're like, you know, I'll get one comment, negative comment on a YouTube video and it will ruin my day. You can get like probably 10 and you're like, whatever, I'll just make the next video. I just have thin skin for that sort of thing.
And so that's why I naturally lean towards methods which are less about me creating content, I guess.
I do need to put on some weight to be fair. I want to talk about YouTube for a second. There's a channel I want to give a shout out to. One of my mentors is the... Founder, that's actually the best way to say it without giving away too much information. One of the founders of this company is a mentor to me. It's mastering.com.
And I think they've really, in my opinion, mastered the art of creating content in a way for YouTube in a way that's ludicrously over the top valuable. And number two, isn't focused on the individuals and the individual characters who are posting the content. I've been trying to do this at AJ and Smart for years. I've not succeeded with it, but they've completely nailed it.
If you check their recent videos, sometimes their videos are 11 hours long, 12 hours long, 15 hours long. And they put these insanely valuable tutorials out there. And then the people who find those tutorials valuable, are obviously going to check out who's this company who's giving away all of this insane value.
So if I were a web designer today trying to start a company and I wanted to have people reach out to me on this next level, like the next level is content creation, but I wasn't super comfortable being right up front as the face and giving my opinions, then I would probably copy what mastering.com does.
Just to be clear, I have zero affiliation with mastering.com besides the fact that I pay one of their founders to teach me stuff or like to mentor me. So I don't care if they succeed or not. I just think it's a really cool YouTube channel.
Fine. So you want to start a web design agency. And so you, and you also think I should, I probably would like to work with like founders and not, you know, massive corporate. So I want to work with like small businesses or startups and I want a web design agency. Okay. I'm starting it tomorrow and I have no social media presence and I don't know what an ad is.
Here's what I would do. Absolutely, yes. And here's specifically what I would do. I would be on Reddit, I would be on Qt Quora, and I would be in 20 different groups on school and all these different platforms. And I see a question coming up. It's like, how do I, like, what's the quickest way to make a landing page in Framer that's completely responsive and blah, blah, blah, has a checkout?
What I would do is I would sit at my computer, turn on Loom and make a goddamn five hour from zero to the pages made video with no cuts, like maybe going to the bathroom or something and then cutting those bits out or bringing the camera with you. And that would be one of my YouTube videos. And I would then send it to the person who asked the question.
And they're going to be like, what the actual hell? this person's like way too much, like that's way too much value. So that's what I would be doing. So, but yes, it's like making courses, but without the baggage of making courses, because making courses is like a looming stressful thing. This is just, I'm making a video to show you how to do the thing in my lo-fi way, but I'm good at what I do.
And here's how I do it. Here's how I would do it using Framer or whatever it is.
We're just sitting in our laptops.
And yet you're dominating.
The nude videos will be in 4K. Yeah. yeah it's true so um yeah that's kind of where i'm at wait you were just about to say something really like profound and i was i think we got distracted by the 720p thing i think you were just about to say something big yeah me too but i haven't i haven't had enough coffee this is the what was i even talking about yeah i also don't know
I got so distracted by the 4k thing. Um, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. We were talking about making these long form YouTube videos and the fact that it doesn't have to be high quality. Totally.
Look at the mastering.com videos.
Low quality is the new high quality.
A hundred percent. 100 lowest quality is the new 4k.
And I'm one of those people who thinks that ads don't work, even though that's not true. But anyway, it would take me too long to figure that out anyway. So what's the first thing you do? Well, one of the first things you can do is a strategy called Dream 100. The idea behind it is you literally make a list. You make like an Excel sheet or a Google sheet.
Yeah, you do for sure.
Yeah. Also, just don't forget on YouTube, a lot of people just want to have something on in the background and learn through osmosis. So if you look at the mastering.com videos or I've been recently looking at my favorite YouTube video this week was a two and a half hour like review of the new OPXY from Teenage Engineering.
And it's just two guys literally, it's just like a video camera pointed down at the device and the person pressing buttons on it. That's something I'll passively watch, but get a lot of value from. So it doesn't need to be obsessively high quality with slides, with whatever, just showing the people how to do the thing and doing it like showing how good you are at the thing as well.
In the end, you know, when these people are watching it, they're going to be like, can I just get Jonathan to do it? Actually, I don't want to watch our video.
Oh, you're welcome, man. I'm trying to think, is there anything else? So dream 100 going to where people are just, you know, getting together and talking about the topic, just going to where your audience already is, um, thinking about things like lower, you know, high effort, low quality content options. Is there anything else?
Like it's, if it's about how are we spending this first month generating a couple of new clients without building a big personal brand and you don't have a list, Those work really well. Those, for me, are the things that I recommend or the things that I do with people.
I think the Dream 100 thing... You know what I'm annoyed about? At AJ and Smart, we talk about this Dream 100 thing all the time, but it only comes back to me once every two years when somehow we've stagnated, like our revenue has stagnated, our profits are going down, and I'm like, yeah, but we're doing this and we're doing that, and I'm tweaking all these little things.
And you've probably heard this quote where it's like, don't be the lion that chases the rabbits or something about lions and rabbits and get the antelope instead of the rabbits. Great quote, right? But I end up looking at all the small things and trying to optimize the crap out of them. And it brings up our revenue by 1% or 2%. And then it just clicks with me. And I'm like, wait a minute.
And on the left, you make a list of all of the people who you think would be already talking to your audience or would have access to your audience. It can be people or it can be organizations. So off the top of your head, Greg, Can you think of anyone who has an audience of people that speaks to founders and startup owners who might at some point want to have a website? Can you think of anyone?
What if I just reached out to this person and we did something together? And usually that's the step function explosive growth thing that happens when I go back to the goddamn dream 100 list and just look at it again and remind myself, oh, yeah. Like, for example, I give you a clear example of this. We were thinking about, OK, we're doing our Facebook ads.
We're doing all this other stuff where, you know, we're tweaking the funnel in all these little ways. And we're like, but how... Looking at the email list, where did this huge bump come from? Like, that's basically 80% of the whole year. And then we were like, oh, we did a webinar with this partner. Like, we did a webinar for this person's list. Why the...
fuck, am I not doing a webinar with this person again then? It's because we forget how it's just still high. The hardest thing about running a business is trying to discern what's high leverage and what's just like menial tasks that feel good but do nothing.
And honestly, just starting a business and focusing on something like Dream 100, focusing on something like being in the place where your customers are, these are like hyper high leverage things to do and to be good at.
Yes.
And I want to know who the top five people on your Dream 100 are. Let me know in the comments now.
Thanks so much, Greg. See ya.
Yeah, let's make it live. Top left, we have the partner name or company name or person name. So back to the question, I want to start a web design agency. Okay, I want to somehow think about, not thinking about how to contact them, but who are the people who are talking to the audience that I want to have? So question one is,
Can you think of anyone off the top of your head who's speaking with an audience of startups, startup owners or founders who you think might at some point want a website designed for them?
Yeah. Since you are an example of someone's dream 100. So you would be at the very top for a listener of this podcast.
So you're and then you just fill this out. So your main website, you just fill in their main website. You link to all their social media stuff. You probably want to blur that out.
You try to fill this whole thing out. And get a feeling for that person and how big is their audience, all of that. So this is like a research project, basically. And if you honestly spend one day just filling this out, let's jump to the second one already. Who would be another person who speaks with founders and people who might want their website designed?
Product Hunt is a website which you could do a partnership with. So yes, Product Hunt.
Theoretically, it can be people or companies. It's only worth putting a company there if you think that there's something you could potentially do with that company. For example, if that company has a podcast, which would also have that audience. So I would say it's worth it at least for this first pass to put Product Hunt on there.
I would also put like, okay, thinking about my city, looking at different meetups, finding, oh, there's an entrepreneur's organization meetup happening every Thursday in the city. And so I'm going to figure out who runs that. And I would put them in the list as well. How can they put me in front of those people? That would be something I'm thinking about.
So step one is just making a list of people or organizations or meetups or like containers where the people you want to work with are already being talked to or already being interacted with and are already gathering essentially.
So this is like step one. Now you have a list of people that might be able to like massively... It might be that contacting one of these people gets you more leads or gets you more traffic than doing all of the other stuff, like doing all the social media stuff and doing all the other things you could be doing.
So for example, let's say someone is thinking, okay, out of this list, I've made a list of 100. By the way, a lot of people just do 10. A lot of people just do 20. Now your next step is figuring out what could I do or what could I offer this person or organization
That would put me in front of their audience or that would somehow expose me to their audience, but would also give them a lot of value. Like very simple question in your mind, like what can I do to either have a partnership with them or give them value? So they put me in front of the audience. One option is paying them. So I'll give you an example.
Early on in my company's history, I realized a lot of our audience is reading Daring Fireball, John Gruber's website. And so I just straight up paid for an ad on his blog and it got us a crap ton of traffic. So that was just like a paid way of doing it. A second example is...
About six months ago, I reached out to a guy called Greg Eisenberg and I pitched him on an idea of me being an occasional host of this podcast. And that also generated a ton of leads for me. I don't post on any social media.
You see, I'm a disaster at social media, but I'm able to generate leads using a system like Dream 100, a system where I just look for who are essentially the people who are just already great at talking to the audience. People already like them. They're already like a face and a trusted person in those people's lives.
And can I just be a slug hanging on to the back of them and just somehow be exposed to their audience? So that's one really simple first step that you can do to start getting traffic to whatever it is you're doing. There's loads of steps and loads of ways you can do this wrong, but there's a strategy for reaching out to people. So that you don't fuck it up. And it's called a canvas strategy.
So once you have your list of people and you're like, okay, how do I actually reach out to people who are super busy already and already like don't need anything from a nobody like me? Usually that's what stops people because they're like, there's no point in me reaching out to Greg. Like he's already got a huge audience. There's really nothing I can do for him.
That's because you haven't really learned any strategies for reaching out to people. And my favorite one is called a canvas strategy. Google it. It's a thing that Ryan Holiday wrote. And the idea here is that it's a system that helps you figure out how to be helpful for people who are gatekeepers or above you in the sort of business hierarchy.
We did an entire episode on the Canvas strategy, Greg, at one point. So maybe it's worth just like linking to that. We actually did a full episode on it, you and I, sometime in the summer. But the idea here is Don't just reach out to Greg and be like, hey, can I come on your podcast?
Because Greg's going to be like, it's almost insulting to do that because he knows you just want to have access to his audience. But for example, what I did when I reached out to you, Greg, even though we already knew each other, I still took it seriously. I made like a pitch for why it would be worth your while having me on your podcast and
And I put effort into it, even though I could have been lazy and just said, how can I come on your podcast? It's like, it's almost insulting. So reaching out to people is an art. And we did an episode called Canvas Strategy. And I think you should just link to that. That is the art of reaching out to people, in my opinion.
Way more. So... probably that's actually a great question let me think so we've been around for 14 years 14 let me do a little bit of math this is actually a great question i've never thought about this so that's like i didn't know you could do math honestly i'm quite bad at math for being a ceo of a company i'd say not me personally but my business has made 50 to 60 million euro just from that
Oh, sorry. Dollars. Yeah. Well, then it's a little bit more. I'm trying to be accurate about it. No one's ever asked me that question. We've been around for 14 years.
Euros. Yeah. I'd say like conservatively, being really conservative, I'd say 40 to 50 million, because we also use ads and I can't 100% figure that out. But I'll give you one very clean and clear example. Jake Knapp, the guy who wrote the book Sprint, I reached out to him a couple of years ago. I talked about it in Canvas Strategy.
Today we're going to talk about how you get clients or how you get leads without needing to be a social media influencer, without needing to even use social media necessarily, and also without needing to create content. Thought that might be interesting for people. Like this kind of cold start problem of finding an audience, finding leads, finding, like building a list, but like out of nothing.
This one single connection, instead of me going on loads of podcasts and doing loads of things, I zeroed in on one person. I was like, Jake is talking to our audience. Our audience buys his book. That's one specific person who really is the perfect partner for AJ and Smart and nobody else.
I put all of my effort into that one person, into really trying to figure out how we could have a really good partnership for him as well. That created our entire training business, which now we're working with corporates all over the world since that book came out, basically. And just us training people on the design sprint has been responsible for tens of millions of dollars.
But that would never have happened if we had not met Jake. even just being on this podcast, like just spending time thinking about how I can be valuable to you, probably within 12 months will have been worth 3 or 4 million. So that's pretty amazing. Like, thank you. No worries.
You do a lot as well. You're a busy man.
Yes, I'll show you everything.
True. That's true. So I'll show you kind of one or two funnels that are running today and that people can actually look at live. That's the beauty. The cool thing about me actually not really being a marketing teacher is that I am just running these things for my own business right now. So I can just show you the live things that you can see today. Yes.
And I'd love to be able to also show you... So we're also doing this for one or two other companies, but I'm not allowed to... This is the kind of thing where we do that secretly behind the scenes that I don't want to talk about them publicly, but all the same principles apply. Okay. Okay. Let's open up a funnel or let's have a look at how we do this
in funnel style versus website uh versus website so step one is always or the the first part of the funnel for us is always either facebook ads meta ads or youtube ads if you're wondering why we don't run linkedin ads it's just because they don't tend to work as well for us that's the answer to the question we're just choosing the ads that give us the best roi
So these are the current or like a selection. Facebook is a bit weird. It's like, doesn't actually always show all of them. Could you zoom in a little? Yeah.
Okay. Um, let's see a nice one to go through. Okay. I'm just trying to think of a good, my team does. Look at this. Look at this. Um, we make some silly fun ads. I'm just thinking of which funnel to go into. You guys can go into all of these funnels. I think these are just the ones that are working the best right now. Okay, whatever. Let's just choose this one.
So this is an ad, one to boost your facilitation career. This ad is just being targeted at people who are reading a certain type of book that we think could be in our industry. So for example, we'll type into Facebook ads, Hey, anybody who's reading GameStorming, who's read any of IDEO's books, who's read The Lean Startup, whatever, show people these ads.
So there's a lot more that goes into it, but you can actually look at that if you go yourself to Facebook Ads Library and figure it out. So... This is an ad that leads to a super focused landing page, which is full to the absolute brim. I'm just making this a little bit smaller so I can zoom in a bit more. It's full to the absolute brim with copy. Like it's insane.
And this, you click here, you end up here, become a high paid facilitator in 90 days or less. Very like QVC style copywriting. Wait, I don't see anything.
oh here we go boom okay you get brought to this page this page most people open it up in mobile i actually haven't seen it on desktop in a long time and it's bringing you to one thing and that's a free training this free training is actually a one hour long training that gives you a sense of what it actually would be like to get trained by us
So it's a one hour training using a format, which I learned from going to lots of marketing conferences and just watching other people. And this format, a lot of it I stole from this book called Expert Secrets, which I showed on the last episode. But there's this section of that book called Epiphany. By the way, this funnel has been running since 2020. and it hasn't changed.
I'm not like a funnel marketing teacher or something, So if anyone's like, oh, he doesn't teach it good, that's not actually my job. My job, I make funnels to make money for my own business and occasionally for other people's businesses. But I'm not a teacher of this topic. I just do it. So if there's... Maybe occasionally you'll have to just jump in with questions.
And this is one hour and 10 minute long session with me teaching you basically the basics you need to become a facilitator and also all the things you need to do to actually build a career as a facilitator. This is a new intro we added this year just so people wouldn't be confused why I look like this in the whole training. And then I look like this in the ads.
So it's actually the only update we did in four years. So people watch the training. After a while, this button appears. After people have watched it, I think we have it like if they skip forward, they can kind of hack it, but they have to watch it for like 15 minutes or something before it appears.
And at the end of this video or multiple times through this video, I mentioned that if you want to know more, you can talk to my team. I keep mentioning this over and over again. And I'm showing I'm basically giving away a lot of information here, like a lot of information. I'm teaching a lot of stuff that you could go away with.
But there's going to be certain people who are watching this who are like, I actually love this. And I'm not the type of person who wants to read, you know, 30 books and take two years to do this. I actually want to speak with the AJ and smart team and see what type of training I might be able to get or I might be able to get from my team. to make this happen. So then... Wait, wait.
Yes. It doesn't have to be obnoxiously long. This funnel has an obnoxiously long video.
They would never have watched this one hour long video if they hadn't had to unlock it.
and if it was easier to find you know basically they're finding this because they came through a facebook ad they have no like the the url is insane they have and this is not on purpose it's just the nature of a funnel not having a place that it lives on your website so actually if they do just close this and they don't enter their email address they won't ever find it again but
because they entered their email address, we can now kind of, first of all, people can watch the video. And if they enter their email address, we essentially play out the video over email if we see that they didn't watch the video and we play it out to them over multiple days and still end with this call to action to book a call.
But yes, having them focused and watching this video in a funnel is a lot more effective than having that just on the website.
You also know about funnels, but maybe you can imagine yourself as the audience if you have things where you're like, that maybe wouldn't make sense to people. Yeah, I think that context is important. I don't have a funnel marketing course that you can buy from.
Yeah, it definitely works for other... The company that I learned it from is a software company that uses it for themselves. And that's ClickFunnels. They basically sell software using this process, using funnels, and they also sell lots of other different types of software. And there's also lots of other software companies doing it.
However, okay, I think there are some people, there are some situations where So it makes sense. It makes absolute sense for any situation where you'll want to turn a stranger into a customer. That's basically the system for it, right? Turning strangers into customers. But it doesn't have to be a one hour long video. That might not work for a software company.
For a software company, we might want to do something a little bit more simple. There's millions of different types of funnels and campaigns that you can run. I'm just trying to think, is there a company where it wouldn't work? Yeah. Anything where extreme prestige is important, like a Michelin star restaurant.
Although I have seen high prestige things like doctors that are like, you know, they'll charge you 250K per year to take care of your blood work and all of this. I've seen things like this using funnels. I don't know. It works for basically every... Yeah, it's not going to work for... A large corporate is not going to do this. OpenAI is not going to do this today.
I think it's best for bootstrapped businesses because you're getting the direct ROI from the ads. Whereas if you have loads of funding already, then maybe you can just brute force it with branding and different types of deals and having a huge sales team. So I think it works really well for bootstrapped businesses. My speciality is selling...
uh, training either in person or online, either to large corporates or to individuals and training can be literally, um, you know, teaching people design, teaching people facilitation, um, teaching people public speaking is a big one at the moment. Um, and I can teach, I can, um, build funnels for those types of things.
I can also build funnels for agencies looking to get high ticket projects, like designing websites, doing marketing for people, that kind of shit. But I personally haven't done it for a software company, but I've just seen it. That's, I don't know if that answers your question.
It was getting on here. Bye.
Okay. Cool. I haven't seen too many, but there are verticals. So I shouldn't say, yeah. Okay. Well, I'll tell them before this episode comes out. So we have this separate company to AJ and Smart called Partners, where we partner up with companies to do this. We don't do it as an agency. We basically advise them on building funnels, but they have to be able to execute everything themselves.
The things that I'm not comfortable selling or where I think it's way harder, number one, if you don't want to run ads, it's very difficult. Number two, if you have no list at all and you have no experience doing any type of marketing, it is a bit of a, it's not super easy to go from zero to a hundred. Then I even recommend, I'm like this person who wanted to do the partners thing with us.
I was like, I think you need to hire someone in house who can do it because I can't really advise you. I can't help you do this if no one can execute the work. So if you're like totally unaware of how to build landing pages, how to do copy, that kind of stuff, It might be more difficult as well. And if you're not, if you don't want to hire anybody to do it. Cool.
Yeah, now I'll sell it to you.
Then again, a website doesn't do anything. So you need to do something. You got to do something.
Okay, so I'll just continue this funnel for a second to show you where it goes. Also, people will say, yeah, like one big worry people have is like, well, that funnel, like the funnel I'm showing you now, which is four years old, they're going to be like, that looks shitty. Like that doesn't really represent the brand. And what I would say to that is,
The general vibe and feeling of that funnel, I was able to pull that together in a couple of hours in this ClickFunnels program. There's so many different other ones as well. Mostly by myself without having to think too much about it. And initially it was just to test one product, right? I was just trying to see, can we sell this one product using this type of funnel and
Okay, so I think a lot of people don't really understand what funnels are. And I think also a lot of people shy away from the concept of funnels because they are not often used in, well, I think people mix up like websites and funnels. That's the first thing. So what is a funnel, first of all? Well, a funnel is really just a step-by-step process from turning someone from being a complete stranger
My goal later was to turn it into something much nicer. But what actually happens is it does really well. And every time we try to make it look nicer, it does worse. So the like shittiest looking funnels we have tend to be the seven figure funnels. And the nicest looking stuff we have tend to not make any money at all, which is very annoying because we're like also a design agency.
I think lots and lots of copy tends to work well. Like really good, convincing copywriting and a kind of scrappy look to it. I don't know. It just seems to work fine. I don't know why. Well, I think the simple answer to it is when we try to make something look nice, it has way less text.
Like look at the comparison between this and we're less willing to fill it up with text as well because we don't want it to look ugly. So like... There's this, which is our kind of I keep changing the size because I'm on a massive monitor here and it's just easier for me to see. So this is like our, you know, nice looking thing. You know, it's kind of there's not so much text right up top.
Then you have, and I know you can't see this right now for a second. Then you have this, which I think looks absolutely dreadful. And actually I see that this line, this has actually also broken itself here, but whatever, who cares? This looks horrible. I hate it. Actually, I just realized like, look at the difference between the size of this button and this button. I'm actually disgusted.
But it's just packed full of information that somehow seems to work well and people seem to need. And we A, B test the crap out of this kind of thing. So I don't know. This is just, this funnel is annoyingly popular. Like as in this one has generated this year. So this launched in 2020. This one funnel, which I can barely look at,
Will has already passed 20 million revenue in it, but in its lifetime, just to be super clear. So in the last four years, actually, it started officially in May. So in the last three and a half years, this one funnel has generated 20 million revenue and it looks like shit. And I don't even like the video anymore. I'm like, I've made so many better things than this since then.
And I'm embarrassed that people see it. But actually, when people see it for the first time, they really like it. So I just have to get it out of my head that new stuff has to be made all the time.
Actually, yes. Yeah. I mean, dude, most people who are not like... I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs have a severe lack of urgency. and a lack of willingness to just see what happens if I get something out there. I, you know, I talk to a lot of, a lot of friends who run companies ask me about funnels because they're like, okay, I believe you. Now I want to do funnels.
I've seen the numbers and I'm like, cool. So like, here's what you have to do. And then they're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe I'll get around to that next year. And I'm, you know, I just like, well, whatever. See ya. So I'll just show you, will I show you the rest of this funnel?
Cool. All right, let's see. By the way, audience, I know maybe you were expecting that I would show slides or something. But again, I'm not a teacher of this. I just want to show you the stuff that's live. OK, so now you can see that I'm showing a type form now. Is that what's on screen for you?
OK, so we've added that we add this type form when our lead flow is low, too high. So when we have a lot of lead flow, as in where our Facebook ads are working really well and loads of people are booking calls, we add in this survey. But when the lead flow is low, when ads are expensive, when not so many people are coming in, we turn it off. So it's just a way to add friction.
So this is a friction increasing survey that we'll add in before you have the ability to book a call with us just to avoid our team getting put onto like calls that kind of suck. I haven't seen this in a long time because the team messes with it every day. I even spelled my name wrong. Let's see. What do you currently do for work? I don't know. Okay. I'm just going to,
or non-customer so it could be someone on your list so a complete stranger or a non-customer into a paying customer so that's what a funnel does
What would you like our help with the most? Okay. And this is also a great question. How committed are you to achieving your goals and overcoming your challenges? Like, especially if I'm going to sell someone an in-person training, I don't want someone who's like, eh. We'll see. You know what I mean? It's going to be way harder for me to teach them then. Why are you interested in the program?
Dunno. This is Jonathan testing. I actually need to say that to my team because they're going to read this. If it proves to be your best next step, how much can you invest in yourself right now? This is really...
an interesting way to just split people up because if they say less than a thousand euro then we just recommend that they use our free stuff which is way easier for everyone okay this is an important one if you're accepted into this particular program in this particular funnel how soon do you want to get started immediately what's your best email address greg at grungus.com
dot kiam where are you based greg and let's see if i get accepted to do a call yes okay schedule your call so now i'm gonna book i'm actually gonna not Do this. So we only allow people to book calls three days ahead of time. That's because if you allow someone to book a call next week or four days or like this, basically what happens is you can guess they'll be like, ah, forget it.
And they'll just won't turn up to the call. You need to have people join calls with very close to the time when they've actually watched the video and when they're actually interested in doing the thing. So after the call booking, it's just in their calendar through Calendly. That's called a VSL funnel. It's called a video sales letter funnel. The structure is always the same.
different to a website a website is more like your brochure a website is more like here's all of this stuff that's going on okay so just to give you an example this is the our website so just a website is a place where there's just all of the stuff that you do it's just loads of It's almost like walking into a grocery store.
You're from your YouTube channel or your Facebook ads. I'll show you how we send people from YouTube if you're curious. So YouTube channel or Facebook or your list, you're sending people into a free training. you do have to come up with a training.
That free training then essentially shows people how knowledgeable you are and how much you understand the problem and how much you also for sure have the solution. And then you're saying you can either do two things. One is you can learn all the things I did, get all the experience I have. That will take this long. Or you can take the headache. That's the free version.
And then the headache-free version is jump on a call with us. We can tell you If working with us will help you or whatever. And we have funnels like that for kind of all the different parts of our business. But what's interesting is, so we've spent ludicrous amounts of time on money and money built last year.
One of my teams spent a ludicrous amount of time building a beautiful, high end, stunning looking funnel for corporates only, only for corporate training.
And this funnel, the one you just saw, which is clearly not targeted at corporates, this generates us the most amount of corporate training leads and the most amount of corporate agency leads, even though we're not actually trying to sell that using this funnel. They just learn about us, they see our teaching style, and then they wanna jump on a call with us.
So one person who came through this funnel in September who was interested in coming to one of our trainings recently booked us for a 300 K internal large training session at their company. So that's, that's funnels work. Funnels don't just work to sell individual low ticket things or individual courses or things like that. They're also conversation starters, which I think is really important.
And no one ever books a conversation through our website pretty much ever. Yeah, that's a VSL funnel. A lot of other funnels are the same are a similar structure. I can show you another one if you're curious.
I can just show you on YouTube first because it will relate to this funnel. It will be easier for me to find something specifically for this funnel. Let's just search. It's always tricky showing. Can I go into a private mode? I don't want anyone to see what shit I'm looking at on YouTube.
All right, let's see. If I search... So with YouTube, this is actually a great example of how people also don't manage to really monetize their YouTube channels because they don't really understand how to do it. I know you can't see anything right now. I'll show you a few ways that we funnel people using YouTube.
Here we go. So share. OK. Here is a... A 36-minute video of me going through teaching people how to run workshops in fairly good detail. And what I'm constantly saying during this video is if you want to have a deeper dive into this, go to the comments and click on this link. And this link actually, in this case, brings you straight to the exact funnel that we saw.
So we're trying to capture their email addresses. We're trying to give them another more focused pitch on what we do, but we're using this education element upfront to warm them up for even going into the funnel. So this is an example of where if I click here, I know it's not gonna open it straight away, but it brings you,
You don't exactly know exactly what to do, but it's a place for browsing. It's a place for just kind of getting a feel for a company. But it's not really a focused thing which is telling you, do this, then do this, then do this. It's not going to necessarily take you from being a stranger to a customer. It's really a brochure of stuff. So that's what a website is. So this is our website.
straight to here right where we've been already so also what's really great is if your team if you're running a team like uh let me just actually this is a really important point if you're running a team and they're making like you're running a company you're making content and you're the ceo of the company you're like i don't know if any of this content is doing anything
That's often what happens when I'm talking to someone and they're trying to figure out like YouTube and podcasts and all of this. They're like, I don't know if this content is actually doing anything. The first thing I ask them is, okay, and they're like, oh, my team members are making all this content that doesn't really make sense. I don't really know if they're doing a good job.
Maybe I should hire someone else. And then my first question is, where are you sending people from your content? And they're like, oh, we have loads of places, like depends on the content. Sometimes it's this, sometimes it's that. My first step for them is your content team's only goal from today on is to send people to this one funnel that we're gonna create together.
There's no other place where you send people and all of your content, always the CTA is sending them to this one place. And then your other team, your sales team, and your actual internal marketing team who's building the funnels and trying to make money, they have one goal. Their only goal is to get more call bookings.
So one day I want to bring some of the people we work with together in a call like this as well, just so we can talk about the different funnels. But we worked with a public speaking guy. And
we sat with this team, we flew over, we sat with this team and after listening, you know, three or four hours to all the different problems, I realized the number one problem they had is you guys don't have one metric that everyone is following. And that metric from today on is,
fill up and we like the there was a sales guy working there so it was fill up this guy's calendar so every day when you start the day your goal is to fill up this guy's calendar when you're making when you're making new content your only goal is to fill up his calendar and within like a month it was just full all the time because they had that one goal and because now they have one funnel which had one goal of filling up the filling up that funnel so our youtube channel for almost all of
2021, 2022, and 2023, it only links to one funnel, and that's it, just the same one you saw over and over again. Um, it also links to some other places. So I want to show you just a quick example of another slightly different type of funnel, which is easier to make.
So this is more of a lead generation funnel, which also drip feeds information about our company and eventually leads into a more hard, like a funnel that leads to a sales call like that. So I'll give you an example. So this
Of course. Heavily.
Yes. So I'll show you exactly an exact example of it just to give you a feeling for it. So when someone lands, when someone finds this video on YouTube, okay, this is called how to prioritize ideas in meetings fast. It's a really good detailed video with templates, with all that kind of stuff. One of the templates we put basically behind an email wall, but we wouldn't even need to.
And we tell them to go here, when they click here, This is like a random landing page made in ClickFunnels. I mean, how long would it take someone to make this landing page? 20 minutes?
Oh yeah, sorry. A random landing page. A really simple one. Look, what's even funny about this is that nobody on my team even put an AJ and Smart logo on here. So it's like it's there is no way in hell you're even finding this website anywhere else. So this is a perfect example of a funnel. It's just living on its own somewhere out in the middle of nowhere.
I'm gonna use this as a comparison to what one of our funnels look like. Websites are what we call or what people in the kind of funnel world call shadow funnels. So website is a shadow funnel. It's almost just there to prove that you're actually a real company. And sometimes it's almost just there so you yourself can figure out what you do and just have like a home for your stuff.
So this is this page has a Facebook pixel on it. And this allows us to know. this person who's using Instagram or Facebook or any meta product was interested enough in this video, the previous one I just showed, to go to this page.
So even if we don't have their email address, we're going to be able to show that person ads and see if they're interested in other things that we're offering as well around the internet. So the Facebook pixel allows us to say... But by the way, the Facebook pixel has gotten a lot less powerful since... Yeah, since they changed... iOS changes. Yeah, exactly.
But it still allows us to get some information. But the main thing here is collecting their email address, collecting their name, and being able to give them this template and then being able to drip feed them emails that slowly warm them up to the other things like... open them up to the universe of AJ and smart without, you know, website dumps it all in one go. A funnel lays it out step by step.
That's really the difference. It's all separate steps that you actually can't see. So when someone fills this out, they don't know that the next step is like a six email chain that we've already written two years ago. Um, but that's a really simple like lead capture funnel or lead magnet that that we would run from YouTube and then send those into a drip campaign.
Well, there's two different types of campaigns that they could go into actually. One is that they could go into the funnel. Usually what happens when it gets more complex, first we'll try to put them into this VSL funnel that will sell them a high ticket program from $7,000 to like $14,000 to any sort of big ticket thing.
If we figure out that they have no interest in things like that and they're like not going to buy anything for more than a thousand, then they go into campaigns like Black Friday. So that email address will then be kind of marked and segmented as this person's not interested in high ticket. This person's just a beginner or interested in low ticket. Let's test them out again on Black Friday.
So we're just collecting email addresses, even though it's like, We're collecting email addresses and trying to get the money back as quick as possible with the VSL funnel. But then we have the template that you just saw there where we might not make money from that customer ever, or it might be two years later. So there's kind of different ways of looking at it.
Another type of very, very successful funnel, the most successful funnel we ever did. Oh, actually, I'll just show you another thing. So a lot of people have blogs and make content, but they also don't know how to monetize people from the blogs and content. So they just keep collecting leads, but they're like... I don't know.
I think collecting and hoarding leads isn't as interesting as being able to actually monetize them quickly. So we also have a kind of unbranded or well separate from everything else blog, which used to be called workshopper.com, which is why the URL is still this. And it's basically our SEO play, but the SEO play, where does it lead? Always SEO.
Exactly. And there's another type of funnel we'll lead them to within here. Here's another funnel, which you are aware of. Well, it's not exactly a funnel, but it's... It's a call to action where we can then funnel them into this training. And that's joining a free community. You are the expert there with your super successful community.
But we have one other thing, which is a book funnel, which is insane. Let's see if I can find workshop or play. I don't even know if this thing works, to be honest.
but you actually can't reach the funnels from the website and you can't reach the website from the funnels. They're completely separate projects. They're completely separate URLs and they're actually living in their own separate worlds and like, project teams, concepts, all of that kind of stuff. So you can see here on the website, it looks nice. It's a nice looking website.
So here's a link out to a funnel. This is a book funnel. This is a free book funnel, it's called. And we've basically turned it off. So we've increased the friction so high that it's not even useful anymore. But you can Google book funnels. Nothing is more effective, nothing, like in marketing, than holding a goddamn book in your hand
And this like all of the all of the stuff you can learn on a YouTube channel for free, all of the stuff that you can download PDFs, whatever, it's all out there. People don't give a shit if you tell them there's a physical thing that they can have that has all of the information in it. a very large percentage of your audience will want that physical thing.
Don't even bother thinking of the logic behind it. It just works. And also, it's easier to talk about a physical book than it is to talk about anything else. Now, I told you this is kind of switched off. So today what happens is you just buy it and then you get sent into our newsletter and then that newsletter sends you to that funnel that you saw. But what it used to do is you would buy the book
We basically were doing it for less than cost price. So now we're charging, I think, close to cost price, but we make no money from it. Number one, this book gives you shit tons of marketing because people love to post pictures of themselves holding books. We didn't ask anyone here. I'm pretty sure we didn't ask anybody here to do that.
Yes, you're right. Fuck. That's brilliant. Oh, these are. Yeah. So like this book now, this page is outdated. This has had like 250,000 downloads and like a ludicrous amount of actual physical copies shipped. But initially, again, people didn't understand the only point of this page was to collect the email address and bring people into a funnel.
And that funnel was called a 2K funnel, which was a different type of funnel. And since it's not going to work right now, I have to explain it. 2K funnel is basically you go, you buy, you get the book either for free or you're paying a small price. I think we had like two euro or something. Then the next page is like, hey, your book is on the way. It's going to take six weeks, as we told you.
Do you want to watch just the summary of the book now? And that's the video that teaches you about what's in the book, plus gets you to sit down and listen to what we do and what we offer. And also gets you to, in this case, because it's a 2K funnel, we actually offer you something to buy right there and then, which was a course, which is called the Design Sprint Masterclass.
which was 2,000 euro, so 2K. I don't know what the A stands for. I can't even remember. I don't know who invented the name of that thing. But the idea there is you actually get, you know, you're paying for all of the Facebook ads for people to come in.
And then there's some extra little elements which you can do where you can liquidate the costs of the Facebook ads with a small upsell in between, like selling a workbook after that first step. So we did all of these steps. It was crazy. It's just so complicated. The amount of physical shipping we had to do nearly killed us. However, the last step is, hey, you don't want to wait for the book.
It's professionally done, but soon you're going to get a very shocking comparison to how much we don't care about that kind of stuff when we're making a funnel because funnels are really about making money, generating leads, generating call bookings, and those things need to be changed and messed around with a lot. So this is a website.
Here's a free training right now on everything based on the book. I didn't come up with this idea. It's genius. And it worked so well. And the only reason it's not switched on right now is that when it's switched on, it's
very explosive and it creates a lot of also support questions like people the book arrived with a bend on it and all this stuff so we now have like a company who helps us do that for our next book And so, yeah, next time we'll pay more attention to how difficult shipping is for workbooks and for all this kind of stuff. But yeah, that's a different type of funnel. You're collecting the lead.
Guys, printing stuff out for marketing, showing people stuff, showing you holding stuff sounds so cheesy and silly. It works so goddamn well. It's unbelievable. It's crazy. um yeah there's a lot i mean this is a you only have 15 minutes left so i've got no time left because i got i gotta go build some funnels you know what i'm saying
I should have cleaned myself before I came on the show. I'm trying to think. I really want to give people as much value as possible. There's a book called Expert Secrets and Dot Com Secrets, which I definitely recommend you guys read. They're very good. They really teach the concept behind funnels.
I think you think that all the big companies are not like, for example, you'll sometimes you look at this stuff and you're like, it's not prestigious. This style of marketing, which is called direct response marketing, it's not prestigious. But some of your favorite brands use this exact type of marketing. Eight Sleep uses this type of marketing. AG1 uses this type of marketing.
Magic Mind, they use this type of marketing. You think these kind of cool brands don't use it. Look at their emails. Look at the style. Look where they're funneling you through. Look at the urgency they use. Look at the deals they use.
This style of direct response marketing is being used everywhere, except, okay, sometimes not by Apple, maybe not by Google, but occasionally they do use the MIFGI concept, which is epic, which is, that's the thing I'll end on, is the MIFGI concept. And that is free. I'm actually going to show you how AG1 uses it.
It's MIFGI, which is called most incredible free gift ever.
So a MIFGI is most incredible free gift ever. And it's about stacking one-time free gifts onto a current offer, which you would think is like too cheesy to work, but it works so well and dramatically increases conversion rates to the max. Like this is AG1's most recent campaign.
where not only did they have their welcome kit and the travel pouches, but they also added this AG1-D3 and AG1-Omega-3, and they present these very clearly as free gifts. They present it very clearly as a limited time offer. You also might think, well, I'm an agency or I'm selling really high level shit. There's no way that I can be doing stuff like this. These are consumer products.
It's so much easier to do it with consumer products. we are doing MIFGs to the max all over the place. Like when we're talking to a client and they're like, okay, there's this, you know, 200K deal and we really want to close it. We say, if you close it this year, we'll give you an extra 30 licenses for your team. Things like this. Like it's about, and that's a free gift.
And we'll also send you printed versions of the workshop as a free gift. And it's really so unbelievably powerful that, And I didn't know about it until last year. Now I see it everywhere. The free gift concept. Again, it's a QVC thing, but a lot of these companies use it like all the time. And it's always a limited offer.
And I got like, look at just to show you how many of these emails I got, uh, Just another example of it. Time is running out, limited time offer. So yeah, and like they use urgency, even though they obviously like, they don't need necessarily to use urgency, but at the same time they kind of do because it is a campaign.
And if you're doing a campaign, if you're doing a one-off thing like this, a lot of the creativity at AJ and Smart is, what's the Mifki this time? That's one of the most common things you hear people talking about at AJ and Smart when a new campaign is coming up. It's like, what are the Mifkis? Time is running out, limited time offer.
And they're just presenting it in different visual kind of lineups, but it's the same thing, basically. Yeah.
I don't think so. I don't think it feels cheesy. I feel like I actually want to have that thing. Yeah. And it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's kind of, It's like a line between cheesy and not cheesy, but you just got to look at what companies like Whoop also do it, you know, like get it now or buy this version of it and you get a premium band as a free gift, things like this. We'll give you a...
13 months instead of 12 months as a free gift. If you buy during this period, um, eat, um, Endel, one of the most like, you know, high brow digital design products for me, for this audio, you know, Endel.
They have, they had such a hardcore free gift campaign, uh, last black Friday, which was you get 12 months of Endel now instead of paying monthly. And we give you an Endel bag as a free gift. By the way, I bought it and my bag never turned up. But I forgot, you know? But I wanted the bag.
Yeah, well, first of all, I think unless you're running, unless you have unbelievably good SEO and you're spending good money and have good talent to get the Google ads to go towards your website, unless you have a lot of brand recognition, your website is not going to sell things for you necessarily. Your website is still the place where people are going.
I hope your audience finds this somewhat valuable. I know it's a bit of a surface level abstraction presentation of all the funnel stuff, but there's going to be some people in your audience who I think will dig deeper. much deeper into this topic now and maybe be excited.
And then there'll be loads of people who are like, nah, this is like scammy shit and I'm never going to look at it and copywriting sucks and all that kind of stuff. And it's all about brand.
Yes. Thank you for having me back, even though I've been a little bit off the record.
difference uh in their businesses and i think uh if i'm listening to this build some funnels like go have some fun build some funnels um and and look at look at other people's funnels go to facebook ad library type in your competitors names and click on their ads and see if they're running funnels seriously that's one of the best ways to learn what funnels to run for your industry see what other people are running for their industry black
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, funnels.
Oh, I definitely want people to check out our new website and thank my team for it because they put so much hard work into it. AJsmart.com, we redesigned it. We went more in the direction of what Greg recommended, which is the more Holdco style. So thanks for, you know, kind of, you know, Greg...
is the is the pioneer and i was reluctant um but we've redesigned the whole aj and smart ecosystem so check that out uh there's nothing to buy i just would like you to say nice things about it on twitter so i can uh tag or screenshot that and show my team because they worked so goddamn hard on it so if you see anything nice on the website maybe you could screenshot that and tag me on uh
And with a free gift. Yes. Actually, and to be really honest, you know, people think it's like a thing, you know, oh, comment, whatever. This episode only exists because so many people commented asking us to do it to the point where you were like saying on Twitter, yeah, people are actually getting annoyed about the fact that this episode isn't happening. And then I felt actually a little bit like,
of pressure that i didn't want to let your audience down so it actually really works i was reading the comments and i was like oh shit i can't just offhand say that i'm going to do something to your audience and then not do it because they fucking they don't forget totally and i and by the way people who are comment
Yeah, he sent me a lot of these screenshots.
Well, I hope it was valuable. Please let us know. You know, because again, because I don't have this, like I'm not teaching this thing. If you have questions in the comments of things I could have gone into maybe for another part to let us know, because I don't exactly know what people want to know about this.
People are not necessarily going to your website as a first thing that the first time they find out about you, they're going there later to see, wait, let's just make sure this is a real thing.
I definitely want to. I'm going on a little, after that website launch, I'm going on like a health sabbatical for the next few weeks, but then I'll be back.
I appreciate you having me on, dude. I know I'm like a bit chaotic.
Oh, so anybody in your community who knows what this hat is from, I automatically love you. Maybe I won't say it, but in the comments, if you know about this hat, you might've already commented on it, but if you know it, then you're my type of person.
So like, for example, if you get a recommendation for a great spa in the city or something or a great barber, maybe after you get the recommendation from someone, then you'll check the website just to make sure. But it's not often, especially with high ticket things, you know, things that cost money.
a lot of money, the website is more there just to make sure, okay, these guys are real, they work with people, but we're not making any money. Not a lot of money is being generated from the website itself. So yeah. And by the way, we haven't had a nice, we didn't have a nice website for like the first 12 years of the company.
This website only, or 14 years of the company, this website only launched, last week and we only did it as a branding exercise. So yeah, websites are not like necessarily how you make money or how anyone makes money. And that can be pretty confusing because
people will tell you to spend a lot of money on your websites and they'll tell you that you should like have the perfect brand and all of this kind of stuff. Um, that's not the way, and that could make sense if you're a lifestyle brand and the goal is to like build up this mystique around the brand and all this kind of stuff. Maybe you're a Michelin star restaurant.
Um, there's a lot of places where maybe funnels don't make sense, but if you're selling what, what we sell is we sell, uh, training to corporates, which can be pretty high ticket. We also sell training to individuals, which up to, you know, $14,000 per participant joining one of our trainings. We also, of course, sell then digital hybrid coaching versions of that.
So from about 5,000 euro or $5,000 to open-ended, that's our range of things we're selling. But we're not trying to be like You know, we're not like a Michelin star restaurant that has to have the branding perfect everywhere. So, yeah, funnels are where we then most people find out about us through a funnel and how our funnels work. Again, completely separate to the website. In fact, unrelated.
And you're not even going to see the same branding on them. Our funnels, which I'll show you one in a minute, they basically could start as a Facebook ad or a YouTube video that leads you into a super focused page, which tells you one thing and has one call to action. And the whole goal of that funnel is to do one thing. And that one thing could be book a call with us. or buy something.
So it's usually one of two things. And we always have a couple of funnels running at the same time. But just a first conceptual thing is that funnels and websites are not the same thing. And actually, what's really complicated in this world is that people who make really nice websites are generally not good at making funnels at all. Because funnels require really good copywriting.
And mostly, it's about conversion optimization for that specific flow. So for us, it's called booking generation. Whereas someone who's really good at making a website is maybe very good at visual design, UX design, but they can't tell you how to make money and how to sell stuff. And yeah, a funnel is just a completely, totally different separate thing to a website.
Does that kind of first step make sense?
Yes, and I don't even know how people... When I meet somebody, let's say somebody who's selling an in-person training... when I talk to them and they're like, how the hell are you selling out these $14,000 training sessions? Like, because what they do, actually, this is a great example, a really great example of how someone else does something versus how we would do it.
And I'll just give you the exact example of this right now, like visually. I think it's important to see this stuff first before going into like the nitty gritty details. So if you were an outsider and you were guessing how we make money with, let's say, let's just choose our online training, right? So our online training is called Workshopper Master. It's like a mixture of online and coaching.
That's me like a thousand years ago. So if you were from the outside and you were like wanting to compete with AJ and Smart, right? You were like, I'm going to... figure out how to make money the same way AJ and Smart makes money. So you go to our website, facilitator.com, you go to the page for the product you wanna copy and you're like, okay.
So they basically have this landing page and through this landing page, people book application calls And then that's how they make money, right? That's how it works. That's how AJ and Smart works. And if you would make that mistake, you would essentially fuck yourself up because that's not even slightly how we do it. And that's often not how companies do this at all.
Like they have their like facade, right? But that's not how this company makes money. But often people will copy the facade and not know why it's not working for them. Another quick example of that could be this. If you look here at our in-person training, I was having a chat with a guy yesterday who I'm helping sell an in-person event.
The Prince of Ireland, yeah.
And he was like, how the hell... He said that he put an event... online in January this year and it's like $4,000 to come to it. He only needs to fill 50 seats and he still hasn't filled it. And it's like happening in November and it's one month from now and he's only sold like 20 tickets or something. And he said it's been a super manual process.
So I asked him, okay, so like, what was the process of selling it? What campaign did you do? What funnel did you run? And he said, well, we just put it on the website and no one's buying it. And it's just crazy to me that anyone actually does this. It's totally shocking to me that this even happens. Like it's...
If that was how we sold, if that's how we expected to sell out three events per year at $14,000, my business would not exist because no one would ever buy it because it's too high ticket. And also, why would you buy it? It's just on the website. You can decide whenever you want. So... We don't do that. We build funnels, right? We build single purpose funnels to solve these problems.
Hello. Hey, man. Hey. Hey, audience. I'm very well prepared for this funnel chat, as you can see here. I've got my slides. and my thing to create the slides. So it's going to be fun. So I did say on the last episode that I was on that I would talk about how to basically kind of do a funnels 101 sort of session. So yeah, I mean, just maybe good to know upfront.
And these funnels are very ugly. No attention is paid to the design. And the copy in the end is not even aligned with our brand because the copy is very much whatever marketing style copy is working for this particular funnel. And it's not like...
totally insanely misaligned like fuck you motherfucker it's just that the style of copy is not the style of copy we would ever put on our own website because it's not representative of what our brand is but it works really well for the funnel so our funnel yeah so maybe and maybe this is where you're going but it sounds like you're saying I have a secret but I can't tell you
See that? You see that shit? So it's a collaboration between Panic and what do you call them? Teenage Engineering, the company that I have like every product of. And it's just such a cute, cool thing for Panic to do. It took them a very long time to make it. It's like a passion project, but it sells like a lot. I don't know if you know about Panic, but they do like... They make this console.
So just giving people like the basic package of meta ads and simple Google search ads, it can be a game changer for these people. And if you're taking a small cut of every single one of those sales,
I know someone else who's doing this as well and he's doing pretty well and he's also not douchey and he's a bit more like bit more in the selling, like the spiritual events and stuff like that, like retreats, things like this. I don't know. I feel my brain is a bit muggy. I don't know if I'm making, am I making sense?
I'm also sweaty.
Software as a slug, wasn't it?
Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that I know what you're talking about.
As if it's something to be proud of.
I hear it all the time, dude. You're constantly hearing it. I hear it all the fucking time. And I'm like, yeah, that's because you're stupid. That you could have six million ARRs.
I don't want to say your friend is stupid.
take a lot of the Silicon Valley status symbols and try to apply these status symbols to small businesses. I think this is what Jason Freed is good at kind of cutting out and getting through the bullshit.
A lot of these status symbols, like not running ads, saying Facebook is dead, saying Meta is dead, are totally relevant when you're trying to be, when the status game in Silicon Valley and the status game in startups is to work on like the cutting edge stuff.
But if you're working on doing something that's like running a yoga retreat or running a creator's retreat or trying to sell cups or whatever it is, you don't need to play those types of status games. And in fact, they might actually hurt you. Like trying to build a massive...
personal brand or a massive like crazy like trying to do what Liquid Death did but for your tiny yoga retreat or something isn't going to necessarily apply without having loads of funding and all these other things. I think ads are just such an amazing easy way to start for most people. I also know it because I run a community which has like a couple of thousand people in it
We teach people also, hey, you know, we're teaching them facilitation, but we realize after a while, well, they need to get clients. So we need to teach them some basics. And when people run ads into a simple funnel, they get call bookings. And when they get call bookings, they get clients. The end. It's as simple as that. When you're a one person show or a small team, ads are so, so helpful.
When you can't do some massive branding campaign and get on TV and do billboards and stuff.
They also publish a lot of different video games. They're like an aspirational company to me. I love companies that are just like doing lots of weird stuff.
I agree. In most cases, I agree with you. And what we do is we... Because our audience, again, is older. At the event that your CEO was at, I think he was probably the youngest person there. And he's in his 30s or something. So our audience... And he's in his 70s. He's in his 70s, exactly.
Like just due to the price range, like our in-person events cost like 11,000 something dollars. We are aiming for like generally it's senior people at corporates and consultants coming to our events.
i don't mean literally senior people i don't mean senior senior uh although actually yeah the range the range of ages at our last event was from 20 25 to 76 not too bad huh not too bad um what was i trying to say fuck is i trying to say you're you're losing your memory in your old age Dude, I've had such a crazy last like six weeks. My brain is done. I need a break.
I can't get a break until like the 3rd of August, but I'm definitely at the point now where I'm like, I actually need a break.
Jason was on the pod.
But I think I was talking about ads. Fucking ads, all right? Fuck it.
There was an earthquake while I was in LA, by the way. Oh, are you okay? I was making deals while this was happening. I just ignored it. To be honest, I actually just didn't. So I was on a call. I was walking on the beach. I didn't feel it. But if I had felt it, I would have totally freaked out. I would have like cried or something.
We had like a WhatsApp group for all the people who came to our event and they were like posting about it. But yeah, so like, let me close this one up. It is, I remember what I was talking about. It is like this kind of form of pride. It's a status symbol to not run ads.
Fine, if you wanna be, if you're already like, if you've already got funding, if you've already got some angel investment, or if you're just like, have a huge personal brand oh yeah no dude I remember you were saying first post on you know first post on social media before ads and I agree with this the only thing is sometimes people I agree that this is the best way to do it.
We're very aligned on that.
In the best case scenario, you're able to test things out in an organic environment and even just getting a feel for the way you write and practicing. So we tell people and our people to practice on LinkedIn just because that's where they happen to hang out.
Running ads, though, I think in itself is worth learning just as a discipline, just because when you get that thing you want to sell, you don't want to be feeling helpless and just like, oh, there's nothing I can do now. I just have to wait and beg people to buy my thing or come to my thing. I love the idea of just being able to put money into the machine. The machine finds the people for you.
Yes, Jason is great. We actually just moved from using Slack, Asana, and Notion back to using Basecamp after a four-year break. And it is honestly refreshing. I started to have the feeling that my company was becoming like a chat room, basically. We were just on Slack all day. You just open Slack and you have all these red dots. And what I presented to my team last Monday, two weeks ago, was...
And then you can figure out how you're going to convert them, which is another whole thing. But I do think you're right. If you can do both, it's even better. But I just think that discipline or knowing someone who can do it, knowing someone who can help you run these things and demystify it is great.
And becoming the type of person who can help other people do that, not huge startups, but small businesses. I think it's a no brainer.
Well, we definitely always... We think about it more like return on ad spent, essentially. So our ROAS. And we're aiming... We're basically aiming for... Okay, we spent... $1, we want to make $1.50 back, right? And we have our funnel laid out essentially in every step. So we'll have a funnel. We'll have like 12 steps, 12 different things that are going on.
And we're constantly, constantly tweaking it. So like our workshop or master funnel, which is our kind of most successful program, We have been tweaking and poking at this funnel to increase conversions for four years now, since November 2020. But it's not just landing page conversion rate. It's sales calls. It's tweaking the video on the second page. It's the survey. We're constantly tweaking it.
So the answer to the question is we obsess about it, but we don't obsess about it in the very beginning. We get the funnel out there. And then we can really quickly see which things are broken, which things make no sense. But yeah, a funnel from day one to day 100 usually looks pretty different. Or a landing page.
I'd love to do that if it's not too boring.
I think when you're learning a new thing, when I'm learning a new thing, the best way for me to learn it is to have one very specific example thing that I can use as my like... I'm going to... It's like... I don't know if you're looking at a... I'm trying to think of a good analogy for this. Maybe I don't need an analogy.
When I got into funnels, the best way for me to learn funnels was finding someone else's funnel I really liked and funnel hacking it. Essentially... signing up to every single part of it, screenshotting every single page, looking at all the emails, screenshotting all those, printing out the entire thing, laying it all out and trying to understand what the hell is going on here.
Like, why is this happening? And then this happening and then this happening. So for me, one of the first types of funnels that I got really interested in was called a VSL funnel, which is a video sales letter funnel. And it has, um, I'll just draw the thing. I'm going to draw like the basics of this funnel. So this funnel for us.
So this is cheesy, but we go to this very cheesy but fun event called Funnel Hacking Live, which I've told people about before. And this year, I hope I'm not over. I hope it actually happens or else this will be kind of embarrassing. But we're picking up an award for having our first $10 million funnel. And so I'll draw out our $10 million funnel.
I'll try to describe it. I'll draw the main funnel. The first page you create is called an opt-in page. So this is basically a page that offers someone who is interested in the topic something. And in a VSL funnel, that something is a free training video. So let's say for us, we want to sell a $7,500 facilitation program, which is like a combination of self-paced videos and actual live coaching.
Let's not become a company that talks about doing stuff all the time and talks about making stuff all the time. And let's just go back to being a company that makes stuff. And so, yeah, I feel like Basecamp's interface is more built for just working on projects instead of talking about working on projects. In fact, it's actually quite hard to just have open dialogues within Basecamp, the product.
So we want to sell that. And so what we offer them, we don't sell them that first. We don't even tell them about that first. Our Facebook ad is selling a one hour free training, which teaches you the basics of facilitation. And so our opt-in page is to sell that free training, nothing else. And so our opt-in page leads to a video and
So the way you talk about it in marketing is you're always selling the thing that sells the thing. I wish I could remember the name of the guy who said that. Steve Larson, I think. So your Facebook ad is selling the opt-in page. Your opt in page is selling watching the video. And I'll tell you as you go.
But you're basically right now, all you're focused on is selling the idea of watching this video because people can get free stuff online all the time. All of YouTube is free. Why the hell should you give your email address and sit down and watch this particular video? So you do have to sell
watching this video basically um because in in the end someone being trained by you on a small level is an ad it's a pitch essentially because they're getting a sense of what it's like to be trained by you so there's an opt-in page which which basically tells them that they can get this free it can be also a downloadable it can be a lead magnet it can be like a pdf
We're doing a new one soon, which is like a list of different exercises and that kind of stuff. Like we have this, this is actually one version of it here. I'm holding it up to the screen. It's a book, a physical book called meetings that we're going to be using as a lead magnet that will actually ship to you. It doesn't matter.
The opt-in page is about getting your email address and ideally getting your attention on something. And so the next page, so the first page, we build these on either Framer or ClickFunnels. So Framer is when we want to have something that looks nice.
And ClickFunnels is when a random person at AJ and Smart, including me, who doesn't want to figure out how to use Framer properly, just needs to test some Facebook ads. So I don't have any affiliation with ClickFunnels, but that's like what we use for a lot of our funnels. So I'll make an opt-in page. And how do I figure out how that opt-in page should look?
I look at other people's opt-in pages, right? That's how I do it. Then the next page is the video. The video is like a training based off the book, which is called Expert Secrets from Russell Brunson. I know people think he's cheesy. I don't care. I think that book is really good. And I use 50% of the format of that book to do the training.
And instead of selling something at the end of the training like he does, because I don't feel comfortable doing this, I sell a call.
So basically, in this training, I tell people, if you liked this training and you want to know if you want to get a proper training from AJ and Smart, either in person or online, you can book a call with one of our career coaches who will talk you through and show you all the different things we have. And we get
between 16 and 20 of these call bookings per day, which we which we have gotten since November 2020. So the video leads to a call booking.
And this is annoying some of my team, but I love it.
They're free. They're free. We are actually paying for everything up until this point. It's actually ROI negative up until this point. So it's a Facebook ad to an opt-in page to a free training. And then this free training, a certain amount of people, I can tell you the exact stats we have if you're interested, because I have this.
I'll open up the funnel tracking sheet and I'll tell you everything.
All right, let's see. Will I give you a feeling for this one funnel about how much it cost, how much it made, this kind of thing? So we spent 74... It's Euro. We spent $80,000 on ads in... What month is this? In June? June. So this is just a June page that's open right now. $80,000 in June on Facebook ads, $6,000 in June on Google and YouTube ads. So total ads, oh yeah, sorry, total ad spend.
So total ad spend between Facebook and Google, a 79,000 euro, $86,000. then total cash collected was 200 and set, uh, 200 and S oh yeah. Total revenue was $252,000. So, and that's like two thousand, 270,000. Yeah. $270,000, 252,000 Euro. This is getting confusing. I apologize. But our return on investment on Facebook ads and Google ads was 318%. So that's an example.
This tweet went crazy. I never have anybody liking any of my stuff on Twitter or on X. I hate when that happens because I'm like, oh, did I do something bad? Did I post something that somehow... politically or something. And no, I opened up Twitter. I opened up X. There was a thousand notifications. I never get more than two. And so I was thinking, shit, did I make a really off-color joke?
And you can see how many calls booked. We had 339 call bookings. Only 273 of those people turned up because obviously not everyone turns up. And we sold 65 units of Workshopper Master. That's an example of this particular funnel running. And this has been going for four and a half, well, whatever since November 2020 is. So yeah, that's that funnel.
Four years. Okay. Facebook and Google ads, which then lead to an opt-in page, which then leads to a video, which then leads to a Calendly, which then leads to the team taking call bookings. If you want to see this funnel working, you can, but please don't book. I will ask your audience to not book calls. I'm just wondering, should I do this to my team?
Because actually every time they click on the ad, we're going to get charged. No, I'm actually... If you know, you know. If you know how to do this, you know how to do it. But please don't do the call booking part of this because that will cost my team a lot of time and money if you cancel. But yeah, we have multiple funnels like this. We also have a book funnel that's running.
This one I can actually show you or your team can look at. If you search for the Workshopper Playbook and you go to workshopperplaybook.com. This is the same thing, except instead of a free training, you can get either a free Kindle version of the book, or you can get a digital and physical copy of the book. We make zero, actually we lose money at this step.
But we want you to give us your email address and your details because then we can bring you into other parts of the funnel. And we'll often use this as like the front end of the funnel because Facebook ads, when you're holding something physical like a book, work really well. And so this is one of our funnels that has been probably the most successful one we've ever made. And this book...
obviously isn't the best book ever. It was supposed to just be a little PDF lead magnet that I created in the space of one week or less. But in the end, it was like, oh, this lead magnet's getting so big, we can use it as a book funnel. But yeah, so ads to book funnel to getting the email address and then into some sort of campaign later, like our Black Friday campaign for this year.
So we'll take those leads which have not been monetized yet and we'll bring them into our Black Friday campaign. We'll figure out what we want to sell or what we want to do. But yeah, that's and all of that is Facebook ads, basically.
For us, this is straight up hardcore email marketing. We start telling people, anybody who's come through any of our funnels but hasn't bought anything yet, we'll start sending them emails. We'll create a sale. We'll create a sale page using ClickFunnels. And anybody who hasn't bought anything yet will get pushed towards that sales page using emails.
And we'll be using ConvertKit to figure out who's done what. And dude, we send a lot of emails. We're famous for that. Get a lot of unsubscribes as well.
unsubscribes and should you feel bad about them we tried to clean out our um list during these campaigns so during black friday summer sale prime day and a back to school sale um we're not emailing every single person on our list so we have 130 000 people on our list today although we don't do many list building activities outside of running facebook ads um
It was just a post about Basecamp.
we will find a cohort or a segment of that email list and we'll use that. But generally, I mean, we're threading a thin line between sending too much, getting too many unsubscribed. We're always testing that. But we have a lot of data from the last 16 or 14 years on doing this now. So I think we've got a good... Your question is, how do we think about it?
We try to make the most sales with the least amount of unsubscribes. But we're also okay if people opt themselves out of what we're selling as well. Because there are people who probably just never want to buy anything that we have. And then they can just continue consuming our free content on YouTube. And that's also fine with us.
But I also feel, you know, we have the biggest YouTube channel for our topic, which is facilitation. Hundreds of hours of free content out there. So we're also, we feel like, we call it like the goodwill bucket. Whenever we do a big campaign like that, where we feel like, okay, we're pushing it, maybe pushing it a little bit.
We're also trying to make sure our goodwill bucket of free stuff is being filled up.
I think the way I put it, I mentioned this thing about Slack kind of became the default interface of my company and that, but like your tools in a way do determine a little bit what your work culture is like and your tools kind of, I don't know how you say it. There's probably a really nice way to say it. Like the tools determine the way you work, something about that.
If someone finds you via Facebook ad and... Dude, it's the big... Everybody who starts working on funnels with me, one of their first questions is, how do you track exactly which things are creating which conversions so that I know should I put more energy into LinkedIn or into YouTube or into whatever? Uh, yeah. And you know, there's a lot of products that can help you track these things.
Like Hyros is one of these products. And I, in the end, just, we don't call it with Hyros. I don't know how you say it. Hyros, Hyros, H H Y R O S.
This tells you like, I think it tells you if someone comes all the way from YouTube and it tracks all the conversions all the way through. We don't pay so much attention to that. And honestly, this is because I took advice from Sam Ovens, which is Don't fucking bother tracking it. You have your monthly P&L.
You just make sure your company is growing and that your expenses are a lot lower than your incoming. And just focus on the Facebook ad spend ROI. And you can assume that having really great content out there builds trust. The people in the ClickFunnels community call it a shadow funnel, meaning someone sees your ad. The next thing they're going to do is see if you're real.
And if they find like six years of high quality YouTube content out there, they're going to be a lot more relaxed about going into your funnel than if you're just completely invisible on the internet.
Dude, I am obsessed with that. I'd love to do... I would need to have like being able to use like the whiteboard sort of thing. I would happily do a live with you, but it would need to be like three or four hours long. I would happily do that. And I can go through... We could make a funnel for someone or like for a product. I would love to do that. I love making funnels.
A lot of the times when people are building startups or when people are thinking of businesses, they're not thinking about the fact that even very simple Google ads are hard to set up for a company and for even an event. So just giving people the basic package of meta ads and simple Google search ads, it can be a game changer for these people. Here's what I do, okay?
You know, one of the biggest parts of funnels is copywriting.
I spent, today I spent from, I think I spent six hours today sitting with my team rewriting copy. Like that's why I'm honestly so tired.
Yes. You know, my favorite thing ever is when we're doing our partnerships with other companies, we were working with a company last week. And when I can come up with an angle for them and a sentence for them that just makes them go, oh my, oh, that's it. That's like one of the most satisfying things of all time. Like Laura and I who run AJ and Smart were obsessed with the nerdy elements of copy.
It's so, It's crazy how much of a conversion rate difference it can make.
Yeah. Can I tell you one copy hack? There's two copy hacks, actually. So when you're writing copy, copy is just like text, right? Just in case anyone's wondering what the hell we're talking about. One of the biggest things when you're writing copy and you're trying to figure out is it good or not, especially for a landing page, is you can ask yourself the question, does this copy...
And it was just, so I've been traveling a lot over the last few weeks and Laura and I who run the company have been rethinking the business from the ground up, but mainly from like the outside perspective. So we're going to be relaunching the business on the 2nd of October.
push towards the idea that it will increase someone's status. So this is a really big thing. It means that, oh, I held it up to the screen and I realized not everyone listens. The idea is that we're often writing copy when we're writing about a product, we're not thinking about the fact that people often buy things because of status. Like, will this make me look better to my peers?
And you think like when you're selling corporate training like we do, well, then we should never lean on the status thing. But of course, if you learn something that makes you more valuable to your colleagues in work, your status increases because more people want you to do things. And so we lean right into that.
And it makes a massive difference to sales if you push towards this idea of helping people increase their status and not in kind of like a... Again, it's not like if you buy this cool watch, then you're going to have a higher status. It's if you are more useful to other people, you will be perceived as higher status. And it's all very different for different topics and different companies.
That's one. The second thing is if you're stuck trying to figure out what the hell do I write for this headline? Like I'm trying to sell this microphone or something. Then you can draw this thing, which is kind of cool, which I'll draw and show here, but I'll also explain it. So on the left, it says pain. And on the right, it says pleasure.
I'm sure a lot of you already know this because you've got smart people in your audience. And when you're writing copy, you can figure out whether you want to write copy that moves people away from pain. So away from pain is like... Never carry around... Like this microphone is battery controlled, so it doesn't need this like phantom energy thing.
If anyone knows, like a lot of microphones need to be plugged into a much bigger thing for them to work. So with this microphone, if we were talking about moving away from pain, we would say... Never get stuck in the airport without your podcast equipment again or something like this because you can fit it in your pocket, doesn't need phantom energy.
So that's moving away from pain because it's reminding you of a painful situation that happens to you. Moving towards pleasure. would be talking about how beautiful this thing is and how nice it sounds. So it's talking about the positives. And sometimes, depending on the economy, this is something that a lot of people talk about in the marketing space.
When the economy is really bad and things are going to shit, then you want to make copy. And especially if you're selling some sort of education service, you want to talk about moving away from pain. So during COVID, a lot of marketing was about moving away from pain. In good times and prosperous times, you talk a lot about moving towards pleasure.
But then we started to realize to make all of these changes, we're going to have to change everything inside the business too, for everything to really work and feel different. So we're moving office. That's one big thing, moving to a new physical location, a bigger space. And that's like doubling down on us working in person together, being able to collaborate with more people.
It's just another little hack when I get stuck writing copy.
I learned it from, I think it was Dean Graziosi on Twitter, like fucking six years ago or something, or on stage at ClickFunnels Funnel Hacking Live. Just all these kind of old school telemarketer guys.
I love that people don't really pay attention to them because they have a lot of really good, like they read all these old copywriting books, like Dan Kennedy, all these kind of like old school marketers. They have some really good copywriting tips. Like they invented this topic and we're all just too cool to learn it now, but I'm definitely not too cool to learn.
I'm going to get three gold Rolexes minimum so that I can open my ads account. I have another random idea for you.
What if I say it in one sentence? What if I say it in one sentence?
Now that weed is legalized in so many places, there are people like me who don't like the smell of it. And now it's everywhere. It comes into your apartment. If someone can figure out a way to get rid of that smell and help with this issue, they're going to make trillions. For both the people who are smoking and the people who are receiving the smoke in cities, in cities especially.
I have been kind of hacking together my own system here and that's, that's a longer episode, but if people can fit, like making a website based on this search term, like getting rid of weed smell from neighbors and just turning that into affiliate links to specific air purifiers, things like this. Um, like doing like something like the wire cutter, but for this specific problem, dude.
I don't know. Maybe it won't make billions.
Well, we have a huge distinction between websites and funnels.
In one sentence. A website is a business card just saying, here's all the stuff we do. A funnel is a step-by-step process to bring someone from being a stranger to a customer.
I missed you too, dude. I missed you too. I wish I had turned up in a more non-manic state, but you know.
I know. I was traveling, dude. I was in your beautiful country getting my brain melted by so many different crazy things going on. It's good fun.
And the second thing was getting fucking rid of Slack. Fuck that shit.
At least any of the other people who are listening to this podcast who know me and have the same problem with me now don't feel like I'm just attacking them individually by not responding to stuff. Yeah. Yeah, dude. I have to tell you off the podcast how the last six weeks have been because it's crazy. You'll forgive me. You'll forgive me.
It's been great. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me back on.
Of course, because it becomes, it is your work interface.
It literally becomes your work interface. And here's one of the dangers I think of Slack. I see Laura, who's a senior member of AJ and Smart, who's running like very large seven figure sections of the business. I started to see that her job was replying to people on Slack.
And I'm like, wouldn't we make way more money if you used your marketing strategy skills instead of replying to fucking Slack messages? And it's the same for me. I'm the CEO and I was spending all day just replying to Slack messages. It's because it's like... easy to do that because the work is just put there for you.
It's like your tasks are ready for the day, whereas real work that makes real money and makes seven figure differences, that doesn't come from just responding to shit on Slack from my perspective. So I just wanted to get rid of it. Go cold turkey. It's gone now. I haven't opened Slack in two weeks. It feels liberating. This is the episode.
I actually, I know I told you I didn't have any ideas, but I thought of some things beforehand that I think could be interesting. Like a couple of things that I notice are missing in the industry that could be for small startups or one person kind of solopreneur thingies. One is, I noticed that one, like... one of the best ways to build a business and to grow a business is to run paid ads.
I mean, a lot of people know this. The problem is... Wow, shocker.
Again, these hot takes for me. So a lot of businesses, small businesses, big businesses need paid ads. or they often don't even realize that paid ads are worth using.
The problem is that the market for people who offer paid ad services are either agencies, which are too expensive and like too big and just confusing, or douchey guys who are like 25 wearing a gold Rolex and look kind of intimidating.
I actually, I know I told you I didn't have any ideas, but I thought of some things beforehand that I think could be interesting. I think there's a massive empty space in the market for not douchey, non-agency companies who help other people run Facebook ads. Literally that.
Just to get the business off the ground in one month.
And I think that so when I tell people that we at AJ and Smart run a million dollars of ads per year, they're like, but Facebook ads don't work. Like, but I heard meta ads don't work, but I heard this doesn't work. And I was I'm always very confused about why they think this.
But when I talk to them, it's because they're somehow when they're looking for paid advertising for their business, they fall into like the douche averse. You know what I mean? They end up having calls of these people who are obviously just don't give you a sense of safety and trust. And I'm always helping companies running their ads, obviously for free. This is just something I want.
I'm like, you need to do this. This is something that's very effective. You can turn on ads and get leads and then you can monetize those leads. That's a really big way our business runs. And I think there's... There's a huge amount of space in the industry for one-person ad consultants, basically, who appeal to specific verticals and are not douchey. So, for example...
There's a huge space in the market for people who can run ads for just like salons, like hair salons. There's a huge space in the market for people who can run ads specifically for female info product owners. There's so many different verticals that you could go into running ads for people.
but not becoming an agency and not presenting yourself as like a rich person on the internet, because I think that's a turnoff for a lot of people, especially in Europe. And so that's one thing I'm thinking.
I'm always thinking about like, again, which businesses would I start or which businesses am I trying to get my friends to start so that I can eventually just become part of it and get a cut of it. I think there's a massive empty space in the market for not, douchy, non-agency companies or single-person shows who help other people run Facebook ads. Literally that. That's it. That's one idea.
Do you notice this with the fact that paid ads get poo-pooed, but probably not for the right reasons?
Yes, yes. I mean, that's fine if you're appealing to people who want to run ads for that kind of lifestyle stuff. But there's a lot of people not realizing that there's an entire rest of the market that
for, like, if you were, I see a lot of open space for people to run ads to grow people's Patreon accounts, their creative Patreon accounts, things like this, where it's about taking a cut of the revenue or something like that. But there's just so much open space for it. I'm experimenting with this in my business at the moment.
So I'm experimenting with partnering up with other people in my kind of strategy design space and helping them run ads and helping them with sort of lead generation. And sometimes I'm shocked. I'm like, why haven't you done this in the last six years? Like, why... Why are you just doing it now? And often the story is a little bit like, oh yeah, we tried it and it didn't work.
And then we talked to this guy and he seemed a bit scammy. And then this and this and this. Then we worked with this agency and we couldn't contact them. And I'm like, there's so much space for this. There's so much space in the market for this. Honestly, just being a meta ads expert would be a game changer. If you don't market yourself in a weird... It's about getting rich way.
You know what I mean?
quite literally sitting in a room with them, opening the meta dashboard, showing them our meta dashboard, showing them how we're doing it. So it's more of an advisory thing. So we're advising people on setting up funnels and taking a cut of their revenue. We're going to announce that publicly in probably two weeks after we launch this episode.
But yeah, for the last two and a half years, we've been advising other companies on lead generation, building funnels, that kind of stuff. Pure advisory, no agency work, no consulting. I guess it is a bit of consulting.
Here's what I do, okay? Just to get the business off the ground in one month. The first thing I would do is look around at events like, let's say yoga retreats that are happening around New York, something like that. Just make a Google Doc of the ones that are not full yet. They haven't been filled.
And I would contact these people and try to figure out, hey, are you having trouble filling up these events? I can fill it up for you using Facebook ads, but I'm going to take a cut of every ticket sale. The end. That's all my first clients. Obviously, not everyone would say yes, but that would be an example of how I would jump on this starting this business.
But yeah, I would be looking for things where I think the product is probably good or the product is maybe interesting to me. So I know how to make ads for it. And for me, that's like creative stuff.
So I could definitely sell... I could definitely help someone make ads for like creative retreats, things like this, yoga retreats, meditation, anything in the wellness space, anything in the design space. I'd also look at things like...
bigger, you know, art installation things, things like this, I would be reaching out to these people, assuming they don't know how to do paid ads and trying to work with them on selling out their thing. Because honestly, event owners hate selling events. They love putting on events. That would be like my first vertical that I would attack. Well... It's a pretty broad vertical.
So it's like a horizontal vertical of events. But I would be looking at events around a city that I kind of understand in general topics that I kind of understand. And I would offer them a deal like that where I'm taking a cut only for the ones they sell and only for the ones they sell through my ads. Through their ads, which I help them set up. Cool.
And the other thing is people think meta ads are dead because people are not understanding that meta ads are only dead for people under 35. So meta ads work really, really well for us, better than anything else for people over 40. And there are a lot of people over 40 in the world. They're not all just dead.
So I think that a lot of the times when people are building startups or when people are thinking of businesses, they're not thinking about the fact that just because they don't see meta ads and just because they're not on Instagram, doesn't mean like a massive amount of the population aren't seeing these things. Even very simple Google ads are hard to set up for a company and for even an event.
What do you mean by chasing generational wealth is overrated and wealth is underrated?
Sip the egg juice. That's my next idea. Egg juice. But I was going to make a point related, like, when I come to this podcast, so obviously, I've been on a couple of episodes of this podcast, and I'm sort of like an anomaly in it, like, as in I'm regularly here, but...
When I look at the comments, I'm like, oh yeah, people don't realize that my brain is a bit broken and that I'm just kind of also a silly man. I'm a silly man. And when people come here for like hardcore back-to-back business ideas and I'm on here, like there was some guy in your comments last week who was like, I want to give you some constructive feedback, Greg.
Don't have this guy on your podcast anymore.
And these are the books that had the biggest effect on me getting to my first million, running my business. So I thought a conversation around which books were actually influential, not just inspiring, but also had practical sort of outcomes and measurable outcomes. So I thought that that could be an episode. So it's like the books that made us our first million or some shit, all right? Um...
What did you do? I actually didn't check the follow-up.
Hell yeah. I would like to give you some constructive feedback, Greg. This guy sucks. Is that what he said? No, it was like, I'd like to give you some constructive feedback. Something like, I don't like listening to this guy and doesn't bring value and he just rambles. And I'm like, that's...
Now he should give constructive feedback on how huge of an insight it is.
I'm going to bed.
Okay, look, you did this post right. I bookmarked it. Yeah, you did. I bookmarked the shit out of it. I see your team has to... I'll try to reduce the swearing because I know they have to beep it out. Okay, so let's... I'm going to... You did this post on Twitter. Your team can maybe bring it up on screen. It's 50 life hacks. I'm going to just...
go to a few of them and ask you to expand on it or to talk about them or just very heavily agree with them. Maybe I'll just choose the top 10 of your 50 life hacks.
Okay, I'm going to do that. First thing, and it's really the first one, use social media apps on desktop only so that you don't get sucked in. I mean, so fucking like do you basically then have no social media apps on your phone?
I agree. Do you sometimes sneakily log into X on your Safari browser?
Okay. You'll delete it. Yeah. I deleted social media on my phone years ago. But I'll occasionally get sucked into... You know, it's your fault that I'm back on X. I was off X for like four or five years before I did the first one of these podcasts. And then you were screenshotting what people were saying about it. And I was like, I'll just log in. And now I'm... It's so addictive. It's so good.
But yeah, I also don't put these on my phone. And again, I try to use this brick, like this brick thing that I talked about a couple of episodes to block things. Okay. Use analogies. People remember them. Can you give me an example of what you're talking about there in an analogy format? Yeah.
The second idea I had was on your Twitter, and this is sort of in a similar vein. On your Twitter, you posted 50 life hacks for you today. No, 50 life hacks for you in today's stressful, competitive world. And you had 50 life hacks. I thought we could go through those, see where we get to. I think each of them is really interesting. I think that could be really useful.
Yeah.
I love that book. You remember that book? I remember it and I love it. And I actually refer to it a lot in my training when I'm training people in facilitation.
That you were covered in egg juice and the smell of it.
Absolutely. Especially if you're, I think one of the best analogy formats, because I remember, so Made to Stick is an amazing book. It also talks about this concept of the curse of knowledge, which is amazing. The idea is that once you know a topic, you now can't like, you can't act as if you don't know it anymore.
You can't imagine what it's like to be a person who doesn't know this thing anymore. And so you actually get worse at explaining something the more you know it. So when I'm trying to sell facilitation training, and I've been a facilitator and a designer for 14 years, I have to remember this curse of knowledge thing and bring myself right back to the basics.
And analogies are an amazing way to bring things back to the basics. And there's this format that I saw Russell Brunson use to make things into...
more of an analogy and it's like he uses the you know how or it's like yeah it's the the simple format he has is that it's kind of like or it's kind of like when so sometimes it's like you're you're thinking about okay how do i explain something like facilitation to people
Well, it's kind of like when you're on a trip with your friends and nobody's in charge of how we're going to get from the airport to the hotel. And it just feels super chaotic and everyone's kind of bickering at each other. Well, imagine if you had, if one of the people in the group just said, I'm going to take care of transportation. It's kind of like that.
It's kind of like, and this is something we actually use in our ads is this analogy is that being on, being on vacation with your friends is supposed to be something nice, but it gets really frustrating when everyone needs to decide where to go for dinner. And imagine if there was someone who was taking the lead
So it's kind of like thing when you're making copy, when you're writing copy, when you're writing an ad, just keeping this written somewhere in front of you. It's kind of like and then something relatable. So anything you're trying to sell or anything you're trying to talk about, you got to remember that it's kind of like and something relatable, something I've learned from analogy creating.
So both of those are more on the entrepreneurial journey, finding an advantage as an entrepreneur. And then the third thing is just like, I have an idea for a startup.
100% agree with that. Have you ever had Neville Medora on your podcast?
He has a book called This Book Will Teach You to Write Better. It takes 15 minutes to read. It's like an Amazon printed book. And it goes into a lot of these topics about how to tell stories from other people's perspectives. But he has one statement in there when it comes to copy, when it comes to all of this thing we're talking about.
And he said, when you're writing, when you're writing for people... And he goes... And he goes... Yeah. And he goes... Did I actually say that? He said he said. Oh, yeah. Okay. And he goes... And I'll just do his accent and he goes, when you're thinking about writing for people, the one thing you have to have locked into your head is nobody cares about you. They only care about themselves.
And this is one of the key, this insight that I got when I read that book really locked in for me to the point that whenever I'm writing copy or whenever I'm talking to my team about copy, I'm like, I'm like, and I go, are we writing here about us and about how great we are? Or are we talking about what they're going to get? So this is something that just like super locks into my brain.
Oh, no, I was thinking like if you're going to really embody the person and I try to do a big Austin accent. And if I was trying to do the Steve Jobs, California accent and getting like like if I overthought, if I if I really incorrectly took your advice and I thought you meant full impersonation. Yeah.
15 minute change. Yeah. And then like practicing for ages and then the person's gone. All right, move on. This one, I really want to know what you think about this because I really want to know the exact thing you do. You said you should show up to meetings with small gifts. The ROI is insane. I have a lot of meetings coming up.
Especially with people who are a lot more important than me, I would say. They are more important than me, but they're more successful than me. I'm always wondering what to do. Talk about this. Tell me what you do.
Okay, so a thousand mini Buddhas and you gave them all to one person, right? Yeah.
Fucking hell.
That's really cool.
I think it also puts you in a humble position, I would say. I don't know if this is even remotely the intention, but it shows somehow some respect to the other person, I feel. Yeah. I think so. What do you do today?
Like, okay, I am going to meet some people over the next few weeks and I want to bring them gifts, but what do you, what kind of things I'm always kind of struggling between like what's too expensive and desperate seeming and what's like too stupid. Like what, what do you think I could bring?
We'll only get to it if you like and comment right now. And we'll know. We'll know.
Does Costco sell Xanax? I don't know. Okay. I get your idea, though. So, like, a nice tea... Yeah.
So, it should be permanent. Like, something that stays... What about, okay, if I was meeting you, I don't know if I'm going to be able to pull this off before my next meeting, but if I was meeting you and I got you the Playdate, this little cute yellow console from the guys at Panic, would you think that's cute?
A little yellow games console? Actually, yeah, it's pretty permanent.
I actually just annoyingly realized that that's a great gift for people right now, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to get it on time. Fuck. I was going to get people these, the little TP7, but they're really hard to buy. Could you get me one of those?
Yeah, but it's something we forget. Like... I don't know. It's actually really good intangible thing to do. I feel like it's something that not a lot of people do. And I, I think also there's something about coming across as, I don't know how to put this when I meet. Okay. Just tell me if this makes sense, the way I'm going to put it. You, I often meet people who are a lot more successful than me.
Oh, after. Yeah. I mean, we're not, it's not like we're, someone's paying us to make these videos. I mean, I'm certainly not getting paid anyway. I'm waiting on that check. Um, so yeah, please. All we ask for is a like and a positive comment about my hair. And, um, so before the episode started, I asked, uh, Greg, how, how the comments were. And he said, some people didn't like your hair.
And after a while you sort of become friends with them and I feel like what other people do wrong is that, let's say I become friends with someone who's like, who's been running a company for 25 years, super successful. I'm years away from ever getting there and I may never get there.
And they clearly have all the connections I would want, all of the things we talked about, this canvas strategy idea. And I'm here. And eventually I become friends with them. I think what a lot of people do wrong is they're like, oh, now I'm friends. So now I'm just going to get all this person's contacts and I'm just going to call them whenever I feel like, et cetera, et cetera. Whereas...
I would always, in my mind, think, okay, so this person is still being very gracious to give me their time, even though we're friends, etc. And so I think giving a gift, and would you give gifts every time you meet someone? Or just the first time? Basically, how many gifts am I going to get is what I'm trying to figure out.
Trying to put their kid to bed. I'm hanging off the ceiling with 1,000 Buddhas. Holding them in a box and shaking, sweating. What are you spraying at me?
One of them falls on their head and it's like a horror movie. The camera pans up and I'm there strapped to the ceiling.
Less likely.
So it's not just about every time you meet them in person.
You know what? I think a great book, Grace, I ruined it. I think a great gift, what I give to people is this book. I mean, having a book that you give to people. Why I think this is a nice gift, this one.
And I was like, Okay, I'm going to go look for those comments now. So we need more positive hair comments. So I got a big haircut two episodes ago. That was a big haircut. So we'll need some updates on that. Okay, so we'll go with some startup ideas. I'm going to hit you with one, and I'm going to be honest with you that actually this idea came from Amer, who works at AJ and Smart.
It's one of my favorite books of all time, by the way.
No, no, no. But this is one that I gift people. I give it as a gift. Um, so I bought, I buy it in bulk off the website and then you can get like this hard cover version, but when you get on Amazon sucks, it's like a soft cover, kind of like crappy looking one, but you can get the nice hard cover additions from the website. I buy like 20 of them and I give them as gifts to people.
Uh, when they come to my apartment, I give it to them as a gift. So that's kind of like something I do.
Um, so that's just an example of a
If anyone wants this when they come over to my place, it's like a glasses cleaner, but it's covered in other strange stains. I wasn't trying to bring the book thing in. All right, wait, let's do another. Okay, let's go back to this hack list. Okay, keep a learning list. Make learning your side hustle. What do you think about that?
What do you mean by a learning list, like courses you want to do, books you want to read?
Oh, you use Things. I think it's made in Germany.
I think it's Germany. Germany. I'm just trying to get a claim to fame here. An American using a tech product that's made in Germany is like a big deal. You know, we don't tend to make much stuff over here. Yeah, it's made in Germany.
Yeah.
That's right. That's right. Cultured code. If you're listening to this episode, you guys make a lovely product. I think it's a really lovely product.
Oh, okay. I don't do that.
Oh, interesting.
How do you decide what you want to learn? Is it just following your interests or is it related to business weaknesses you have or life weaknesses?
Oh, interesting.
Probably a good way to network with high net worth people as well is golfing.
What do you mean by chasing generational wealth is overrated and wealth is underrated?
Yeah, he has a similar voice to you, actually.
We were chatting around lunch, and I was like, I'm going on Greg's podcast. He loves ideas. He loves all these ideas. He kind of like stopped talking and just went fully quiet and just stared into space. And then he came up with this great idea. Well, I like it anyway. And his idea is a product called Drip, right? And the idea behind this product, it's kind of like a
I have, I have zero interest in generational wealth either. Maybe I, maybe it's just cause I don't think I can actually make it. Maybe if I had a no, but really, I also like I guess this die with zero concept where you use the money. And when you die, like I was thinking about it, like my daughter doesn't need to have crap tons of money from me. when she's older because I didn't have that.
And I, I found it really fun to figure out how to make money. I worked in bars, I worked in restaurants, then I started making my own things that I, you know, like that, that gave me sort of like something to do and sort of like a purpose. Um, So yeah, I would definitely agree with you. How would you define normal wealth, though? How do you define that for yourself?
I'm currently working with a financial advisor to figure out for me, what is it that I actually should earn? I run a creative thing, and so it's variable based on my vibes. So how do you and me figure that kind of thing out?
that's so frustrating to the financial advisor they're like so what's your goal and and you go that's literally just based on my vibes he literally really nice guy sebastian i um can definitely recommend him if you're in germany uh reach out to me and i'll connect you he he asked me what my goal was and i was like first of all he was sitting in the aj and smart office which looks like
like just looks like an art museum of some sort like a chaotic art museum and i'm like look around like do you think i have goals my goal is to keep making stuff that i want to do i want to just do stuff that i enjoy um but yeah i don't have any goals at all i don't know what i want to do i mean financially yeah do you have like a number or like just keeps going up
Yes, you don't want anyone to tell you what to do, where to be.
That connects to number 20, which is craft a personal mission statement to guide your decisions. First of all, do you want to share your one? And second of all, how do I do that?
I don't have one.
My personal mission statement is I want to follow my interests. and then make things that I find interesting with other people. I don't like to make stuff just by myself. And ideally, other people like using those things. I don't have a mission statement, but if it would be something like that, make interesting stuff that I find interesting. It's very much around making things
I like to create stuff. I like making things.
I have recently very much lost sight of my goals, which I've never defined, but I can sense it.
You know how you, I don't know if you use Twitter like this or if you use the internet like this. I have like tons of bookmarks, tons of screenshots, tons of things where I'm like, oh my God, that's a cool quote. That's a cool thing. I want to check this out later. And also I use like Pocket Cast to put articles into just collecting loads of stuff.
But what does one look like? Can you tell me what that statement sounds like? I literally don't know what you mean. Yeah.
So you obviously don't want to share yours, basically. I don't want to share mine.
Share it with us, Greg. Okay, guys. If you like and comment, share it with us, Greg. Then in the next episode, Greg will share his personal mission statement. No, but it's interesting, a lot of Americans say things like, you know, that's sort of like my purpose or my mission. It's very rare to hear people outside of the US saying these sentences.
And so, yeah, it's interesting for me just sort of trying to understand it and trying to see if that makes sense for me. I like the idea of having like, so what I have is a post-it in my kitchen, which says 2024. Do you actually, can I go get it just to show you? Or is that an annoying thing for me to do right now?
All right. Just because it's so it's so like not a mission, but it's like I'll just do it. I'll be back. I'm not wearing any underwear or pants. So I'm just sure. So at the end of 2023, I think it was the 29th of December, my girlfriend and I did like a. It's this Tim Ferriss thing. It's called the end of year review, something like that.
And then we created our goals for next year based on how that works. It's kind of embarrassing to show this because it's not like a public thing that I've ever showed, but just to show you, I think maybe my version of what we're talking about, which is very much within the year. So it looks like this.
And so it's like three questions for myself and then like one physical activity that I am just going to lock into. It sounds like a weird thing. The questions are, number one, am I optimizing for state? And that just means my state of mind. Am I living my life in a way that's going to optimize for how I'm feeling? Because when I feel good and when I feel excited, everything else works better.
A really simple example of that is being very, very cautious of... things like alcohol, not sleeping, over-caffeinating. I have my own list of things that cause my state to turn bad, also social media. Am I lowering noise and complexity? So this is something where just thinking about like, you and I talked about this a couple of weeks ago as well.
But in the end, the truth is I very rarely go back to any of it. And I think that's really common. People rarely go back to any of this read it later stuff, even the like best possible read it later software. It still acts as a bit of like a hole for all of your stuff. It's just like a big black box.
I actually shut down my holding company after realizing that even though it makes sense from a financial perspective, the noise and complexity, even though it wouldn't, for example, be a problem for you, for me, that overwhelms me massively. So am I lowering noise and complexity? And then the last one is kind of interesting. Am I being radically integral
Yeah, I know. It's fine. It's also a bit pretentious. Again, I wasn't planning on showing this so it was only for me. The idea there is that Am I being, first of all, am I telling the truth? Like if someone asks me something like, how am I feeling? Am I just telling them the answer to the question? But also, am I basically living in a way that actually reflects what's happening in my head?
Or am I just living in a way that's good for others to get what they want? Being integral, like having integrity, the idea is just like, Yeah. Am I being integral? Do I have integrity? Am I, am I, are the things I'm thinking similar? Are the things I'm thinking the same as the things I'm saying the same as the things I'm doing those three things lining up and, uh, Then yoga.
I actually have done one hour of yoga per week since January because I was having some back pains. So that also worked out well. That's kind of more like an optimizing for state thing. So yeah, I don't have a mission statement, but I kind of break it down into like the three things I want to focus on for the year. But the mission statement thing is pretty interesting.
Is there any like thing I can watch or read about how to create a mission statement for myself?
Um, and Amr had this idea, which I thought was pretty cool for a product that, well, he, he said all of these services are basically procrastination machines, like screenshotting, bookmarking, save later. You rarely go back and take action on these things. And he had an idea for an AI startup, which I thought was pretty cool. And the idea is the product itself combines your sources.
I'm going to look at all of those after I have them open as tabs. I have them tabbed out.
Okay.
Yeah, say the Instagram close friends one. I don't see it here.
Homie, we just met. I haven't used that feature in quite a while, so I can't say much to this thing.
So are you telling the public just to not add you to close friends?
I think that's also interesting because what you could do is if someone adds you to the close friends thing and then you see that they're doing something like a wedding or a family party and you haven't been invited, you could get really irritated with them. Like, oh, thanks for the invite. I thought I was a close friend.
Yeah, I thought I was a very close friend and I didn't get put on your will, interestingly. So yeah, okay, fair enough. That's a good one. Okay, let me, can I choose one more just to end on one that I like? Okay, avoid angry people. They suck the good energy out of the room. It sounds like really obvious.
And I would say not just angry, or maybe you, I don't know if you agree with this, but I would say you also generally want to avoid people who are super cynical, super pissed about everything. It's like you meet someone and they're like, oh, did you hear about this stupid thing? This stupid politician did this country's fucked up. And you're like, oh man, I was having a good day.
And now I have to listen to this stuff.
They're also the people that if you come to them, let me see if I can get this down to the perfect crystallization, if this is exactly what it is for you. You're really excited about something. You're really excited about a new thing. Let's say you got this and you're super excited and you show it to your friend and they're like, I heard teenage engineering are actually a shit company.
That's like a waste of money. That's crap. No matter what you do, they see that you're excited and they're like, let me just take the pin out of that. Let me bring you down a few pegs just to make sure you're not too excited and too happy about stuff.
Because it's positive vibes.
Let's say you could even just start with bookmarks on Twitter on X and using Pocket Cast, the things you've actually saved. So you don't even have to create a new plugin for it. And instead of it just being a massive pile of stuff that you go to, you get things drip fed to you at a pace that you feel like. And this could be something as simple as SMS.
You've probably been given this advice or you've read it before that to succeed, you need to be surrounded by people. I've heard this before and I unfortunately took the wrong lesson from it.
When I was growing AJ and Smart in the beginning, one of my mentors was like, you need to be surrounded by people who will question everything, who are like the devil's advocates, who are like the yin to your yang. I was like, oh yeah, you're right. You gotta have those people around you.
And what I realized is that maybe you wanna have those types of people around you when you've already massively nailed it and you need to have, let's say you're running Facebook. You maybe need to have people around you who are like, oh, let's hold the brakes. Let's make sure this decision doesn't have like crazy consequences down the road.
But generally, you mostly don't want to be surrounded by people who are questioning everything and being the devil's advocates and telling you all the ways things can go wrong when your business is just starting out and you're still under 20 million. You want to be surrounded by people who are enthusiastic advocates and who are excited about what you're doing. And I think there was a time at A.J.
and Smart where I really...
brought a lot of people up to the top of the business who kind of opposed everything I did because I thought that that's what you're supposed to do and so it's like and in the end what happens is the founder or the person running the company just loses steam and gets less excited and the whole thing just kind of falls apart and so yeah I think as long as you're especially when you're like the company relies on your energy and you being excited and you being positive it's
curmudgeons are the ultimate like kryptonite for a founder. The problem is they're everywhere. And the other thing, the best quote I've ever read on this is pessimists will always be right, but optimists will always get wealthy. Something like that. Something around those. That's what it was.
Yeah, something like that. Right. And I think that's that's such an amazing sentence to have in mind. If you're building a business or if you're running a podcast or if I even as a guest on this podcast, I'm going to get curmudgeons in the comments telling me that I ramble too much or that I look stupid or that whatever. Fuck y'all. You know, I need the positive energy to even keep going.
You're not on this podcast. You're not out here running the startup ideas podcast like Greg is and putting all the effort into it. You're just sitting around complaining online. And I think that energy isn't, you're a hundred percent right. Like, That energy is not what you want to have around you.
And then people will say to you, Greg, which you've probably gotten, if you would do that as a post on its own on Twitter, people would say to you, oh, yeah, sure. Just surround surround yourself with people who just like, you know, brown nose you all day or whatever. And that's not the point. The point is you're not at the point yet where you need people to pick things apart.
You're not at the point yet. You still momentum is still important to you. And so enthusiasm and being enthusiastic, being excited is super important. Oh, shit.
I got too excited. I got too excited. You know, it's the enthusiasm and excitement of a founder of a small business or a startup is so unbelievably important. Like it's not, it's one of the things that brings down startups and small businesses most often is the founders just giving up and burning out. That's it.
So once a day you wake up and it's like combining maybe three or four things that have something similar, synthesizing them together and giving you that idea. So an example of that could be you wake up in the morning, you look at your texts, There's a lot of weird ones, you know, like a lot of, a lot of weird shit. Like, I don't know. It's just, I wish that person would stop texting me.
Yeah, but they run out of cash also because they just run out of energy for it often.
Don't be a curmudgeon, dude. Don't question anything I say. No, you're right.
Yeah. And I think number one, the team gives up usually means the leaders give up. and just run out of energy and run out of steam and just can't be bothered with the... Like you see that often with content creators as well. Like when they get bullied offline or something. It's just a matter of whether they are going to stick around or not.
And it's really often like that with especially small businesses. When AJ and Smart, when this business that I run... When it's doing its best is when I'm excited and enthusiastic and then I can make my team excited and enthusiastic because I'm the cheerleader at the company.
But when I give myself... If I surround myself with people who are just telling me everything's wrong and everything sucks, then I also can't cheerlead myself or my team. I think it's a huge one.
Absolutely. I think that's a really hard line to manage. I guess some people get mixed up with they read stuff online about being more combative and saying what you mean and all of this kind of stuff. but they're not thinking about the fact that a huge amount of things in the world work just because people are excited about doing them and people are motivated to do them.
And yeah, I have that problem when I'm also talking to my team and giving my team feedback and Laura Laura, who I run AJ and Smart with, she's told me I do this where my team will present something to me and I'm like, I don't like this, I don't like this, and I don't like this. And then she's like, yeah, but then they're not excited to do it.
And I'm like, yeah, but I don't like this and I don't like this and I don't like this. So it's easy also to fall into it, even if you know how it feels from the outside. Even if you don't like it, it's easier for you to do it too. And that also mixes well with your comment about be nice on the internet.
I think like you said, you probably meet a lot of people in real life that you talk to on the internet, right? And so if you want to be a business person, you probably don't want to be shitting all over people on the internet. I guess Elon can do it because he's already nailed and finished the business game.
But anyway, next to that, you have drip, right? And drip is an AI that's dressed up in cool drip, right? It's just got, it's, it's very vibey. And. you open it up and it's like, essentially it's your thought for the day or your thing for the day or your idea for the day, or it could even just be your inspiration for the day.
But I can't imagine you going around trolling people on their content and on the internet.
These are the books... I just want to... I just have a pile of books next to me. And these are the books where I feel like if you're... Either you're struggling with your business or you're working at a company and you want to start your own business or you just want to get like a good download of good business stuff into your brain.
I just have a couple of books here and I think you've probably read a lot of them, Greg. And I'm going to start with the most cliche, most obvious one. But often people have what I've noticed with entrepreneurs, people have not read it because they think it's like not cool anymore to read this book. And it's like it's played out and it's out of date. Can you guess what it is, actually?
Okay. It's the 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. This is the book. I was working in a company here in Berlin, full-time employee. I picked up this book. It was at my aunt's house or my parents' place. I don't know. My mom reads a lot of these types of books as well. And I looked at it and I was like, this looks like Tony Robbins. It looks kind of like, I don't know, it looks cheesy.
I think this looks cheesy. and not cool and like not a vibe. Anyway, picked it up. That's a theme of a lot of books actually in my life where I think they are going to suck and then I read them. I picked this book up and it changed my brain completely. Within probably four or five days of reading it, I already decided I'm going to quit my job. and start my own business.
I think it's one of the best books that just like lays out how to make money by selling things and how to do it in a way that just doesn't burn you to the ground. It like teaches you the absolute basics of business and delegation. And there's just a lot of concepts in here that I'd never heard of in my life. And yeah, it's kind of the passive income Bible
It's like the digital nomad Bible, whatever it is. It's the first book that I read on that topic and still holds up really well today. So that's The 4-Hour Workweek. I think it's amazing. I think every entrepreneur in the world should read that book.
And it's taking the topic is around one topic that I got really into a couple of months ago was this idea of atomization. I don't know if you ever read this article called the atomization of life. I think the guy is called Nat Eliason. Anyway, I saved that article and then I Googled it and I saved loads of other things and then I bookmarked loads of stuff.
I also love things like the little lifestyle things in there, like the mini retirement. It was just so many things in there that completely broke my brain. And I was so lucky. It's the first business book I ever read. like was the four hour work week by Tim Ferriss. And it's, it's a, it was a completely mind blowing experience.
And obviously his followups like tools of Titans, tribes of tribe of mentors also great. But this really feels to me like, I also love that this book, you know, goes into practicalities like running Google ads to a landing page and testing the copy. It's a super practical book as well. It was the first time I also even learned about things like this.
So cool. All right. There's no, they're not in any order. I'm just kind of looking. The next book I think I probably read, it might've been the next book I read because Tim Ferriss connected me then in his world to this book was Anything You Want by Derek Sivers. And it's 40 lessons for a new kind of entrepreneur. And this book really teaches me, taught me about like,
that you just do not have to run a business the way other people are running businesses. You can really just make your own, you can make your own really specific brand of business. This guy, Derek Sivers, again, you know, his other book.
I'm very surprised about that. I think this is one of my favorite books of all time.
He created a company called CD Baby, which he sold for either 30 million. So he created an online digital product, sold it for many, many, many million. And then he just went off and disappeared and decided to not do that anymore. And he's just living a really fun sounding life. And so it's inspirational. He's like a, he's a creative, I guess it connects with me.
Yes, exactly. So he didn't get caught up in the money making.
So he can teach you things and he doesn't need any money anymore, but he's teaching because he wants to teach. And I think that's really interesting. Next one, Double Your Profits, another old school looking book by Bob Pfeiffer. I don't know if you know this one. It's really, really good. So this book is 78 Ways to Cut Costs, Increase Sales, and Dramatically Improve Your Bottom Line.
This is a book I read... Two days ago, again, and I read it almost like every quarter. It's just a good reminder of little tactics. And you can open up a page and there'll be a tactic in there. I think one of my favorite things is this chapter. It's also one of the most highlighted ones, chapter 10, step 10. And it's maximizing customer satisfaction leads to bankruptcy.
And the idea would be one day, just it could be a year later.
And he talks about this idea of when you're creating a product and creating differentiation, make sure that you only provide the elements of differentiation that the customer is willing to pay for and not those that the customer is not willing to pay for. It sounds really stupid, but sometimes we'll make stuff at AJ and Smart where like...
20% of it is stuff nobody gives a shit about, nobody uses, but it costs us a lot of money to make it. And we're making it because one or two people said they wanted it. And I think remembering things like this is very important. Another book I'd actually like to put on the list, which is behind me. Well, I'm not going to get up. It's Rework by Jason Fried and David Heinemeyer Hansen.
That was probably this, I think that was the second business book I ever read. And that definitely defined a lot of how I think about building products. So rework Jason Freed, get him on your podcast. Guys, if you want to get Jason Freed on this podcast, can you like go on to X and tell him, come on to Greg's podcast? I saw that he replied to you.
He's great. He's great. But let me just... I'll give you the inside baseball on that.
You like that? Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I think that's great because you're being humble and not assuming he remembers this interaction.
That's not your vibe. You're too good. You're going to suggest a specific thing for him to watch.
Yeah. Jason's not... opposed to receiving reminders well no no one's opposed to receiving reminders by the way no but as in it doesn't see yeah he wouldn't take it as a like that's cool being bugged yeah really cool yeah he's jason is a huge i think jason freed cable sasser tim ferris derrick sivers are probably like my you're about rushmore That's the German version. Alexanderplatz Tower.
I think it's great.
Um, yeah, like I, I have, I think almost every page of this book is highlighted. Um, it's crazy. It's, it's all about list building. It's all the stuff that's still super relevant today. Um, these books are beyond relevant, like they're, they're the best marketing books you can read. And I think what makes them also great is that nobody.
I've said this before, people in our world don't like Russell Brunson because he's cheesy, but he's also just very smart and a very good writer. And he's not trying to be clever. You know what I mean? He's not trying to be deep or clever. He's just like, here's how you do exactly this with very little anecdotes and very little, just straight into it. I really like that stuff.
That's why you're not going to buy this one because you don't respect it.
Could you guys also let us know what you think about my hair? Did you prefer it long or do you like it at this length?
It's more crazy. You prefer it longer? I don't want to be... My personality already says... You know what the issue with your hair is?
It's medium. It's mid. It's mid-length. Do you agree? And for anyone... I kind of like it. I like the... It doesn't go in my mouth. I didn't like that the... Like when I was eating, when my hair was like to here, it would go in my mouth a lot. And this is going to sound really... You've changed. You used to like the hair in your mouth. I used to like hair in my mouth. This is another thing.
And this sounds really stupid. And I don't care about your audience complaining about me rambling. But when my hair was longer, I felt more chill. As in I felt like... I felt like I couldn't... not be chill. You know what I mean? It's like wearing baggy clothes and having long hair makes you feel different. I don't know how to describe it.
I needed a haircut because I felt like I wanted to go into a new phase where I was a bit more switched on and a bit more... I can't describe it.
Yeah, a very long time ago, so I'm not sure if I'll remember that.
Yeah, I kind of remember it.
But it makes you feel different.
It makes you feel... makes you feel like when my hair is long i'm kind of people assume first of all that i'm super you're not but i'm super like i'm not that i mean i'm not chilled out in the way that many people would think with my hair i mean dude you run you run a successful business you you're busy busy I'm busy. You wouldn't think it with the hair.
So anyway, guys, I am being 100% serious about the comments on the hair thing.
A couple of months ago, you were researching atomization. Here's a couple of new things that have come up around this topic. Here's some of the quotes that you highlighted. Here are a couple of things you were interested in. And it's just a little one pager or just a text message. And that's literally it. You can either go down the rabbit hole back into that topic or nothing.
We'll be back. We'll be back very soon.
Talk to you later, boss.
It's just reminding you of interesting things you've collected. And there's no central... interface where you go and see all the stuff so you don't have another dump to go to to see where all your articles that you're not reading are stored and over time maybe it can get smarter and smarter and like
I don't want to make it unrealistic because if you're talking about like a one person startup, you're not going to be, it's not going to be able to tell which parts of podcasts you listen to, et cetera, et cetera. But you could go further.
But the initial idea is a fairly cheap service that drip feeds you back information that you've stored for yourself at a pace that you want it to drip feed it to you. And it's called Drip AI. Drip a drip. It's a little idea. So much to do.
What if instead of drilling into your head, you could drip out of your head? That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
I think it would be cool because I think a lot of people, I don't know why everyone loves to make bookmarks products, like collect all your bookmarks, collect all your stuff. I'm like, I'm clicking the things in the apps that store this shit for me. My problem isn't collecting. My problem is getting it brought back to me. You know, that's what's actually my issue.
Yeah, I'm going to just start calling myself J Ice Cream now on your podcast.
I would just start... If I was starting this tomorrow and... I just wanted to make like 99 cents per person per month or something. I would just focus purely on X. My target market are entrepreneurs or creatives who like and bookmark crap tons of stuff on X. And I would just simply build something that works. collects that and sends it back to them. It can be more like a boomerang thing.
Yeah, that's not what I intended when I created my gamer tag, but you can call me whatever you like, Craig.
It kind of chooses things from a year ago, one day, two weeks ago, another day. And in the beginning, it would be a little bit random just to see if people care about the idea of reminiscing and bringing these things back. And then maybe adding on this context thing, like there's been an update to this, or this This person who tweeted this thing has talked more about it again. And here's that.
So I think there's a very simple, basic, baby version of this, which could be free and maybe with ads or something. And then there's the AI-powered version of it, which adds context and synthesizes.
It's your podcast, dude.
I think that's pretty cool. That could even be, we take a couple of steps back, that's another product now where you could just have that as an email list.
Greg Eisenberg, Sean Puri and someone else's like, it's basically the entrepreneur secret bookmarks paid weekly newsletter. It's just, here's what other people are liking and interested in. That would be, I would definitely pay for that. Yeah.
I'm probably not the right person to ask because I would probably pay a lot. Because I just spoke to you before this podcast about how much I'm about to pay for a mentor. I mean, I would minimum pay like $10 a month or something.
I've got three options for you. And I'm going to tell you them in order of what I think I would be most interested in. Number one, and also this straight up, I think would just work well for views and engagement and all that good YouTube stuff. Number one, I've got a pile of books next to me. And...
I don't know. You think you're a baller?
I do $10. I do $10. No, I just mean like I'm already sold on being able to access things like that. Like I think if we're trying to do like a large target market, but then again, I mean, if we're thinking about,
people who are entrepreneurs who are like maybe a couple of million behind those people whose bookmarks you get to look at that could be pretty interesting but yeah i would i don't know i never know what i would pay for something until someone sells it to me totally totally but i think there's two ideas here and they're all around bookmarks people don't need another bookmarking app
Bookmarks. Do you use any of these things like pocket casts and stuff?
But there you go. Okay, so... People who use Twitter bookmarks, a product for them. That's a beautiful niche. Entrepreneurs who use Twitter bookmarks very often and obviously never look at them again. Come on. That's a great niche. All right. Come on. Come on.
Such a great idea. Again, the drip aspect of this is from Amr at AJ and Smart. I want to give him all the credit. Amr, you're a legend. Amr Khalifa on X. I just want to take the credit because he gave me that idea.
Yeah, exactly. We took the seed.
The seed was birthed.
The seed was, what happens when a chicken, the seed was laid? Why is it laid like an egg? I don't know. I saw it happen with my own eyes, though. He's a weird guy, you know? Then I sat on it and incubated it. for a few hours and then I brought it to you and we hatched it.
We don't talk about eggs enough on this podcast.
And they sipped the egg juice. You know, when I'm looking back on episodes of this podcast and I'm thinking a lot of people, you know, there's people.
I don't know, man. But I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. These guys, I haven't used their product so I can't vouch for it, but But it's purple, so it's good. Exactly. Then you want to use 11 Labs for AI voiceovers. So you just put in the script. You get the voiceover. And then using something like vidIQ, which is a Chrome extension for keyword research and channel optimization.
You can also use MrBeast has a new one called... Viewstats, viewstats.com. So, and there you have it in a box. But I think what's missing from here is you got to pick a niche that's high value and because it's not just about the views, it's about converting those views into products and services and communities.
Or we explode.
I think so. I think a lot of people listening to this probably have jobs and they just kind of want to set up something on the side. And then maybe it turns into something super big and maybe it doesn't need to. I mean, it could just be like... making $100,000 a year or whatever it is on the side.
Less than 72 hours. Seriously? Yeah, yeah. I think, I mean, dude, 72 hours is conservative. Like 7.2 hours is realistic. But just giving extra time, I think 72 hours, like the hardest part is going to be picking a niche that doesn't have a ton of competition that you think could stand out, that you think can go viral. I mean, writing a script is really not hard.
And I mean, with Fiverr, if you want to use Fiverr, like, okay, that just extends your time 24 hours probably. Um, but all the other tools, like they're quick.
No, I always start with the niche in mind, like the audience. And I'm always like, okay, what's a lifestyle? I generally prefer targeting lifestyles because there's like stronger, there's a stronger community with a lifestyle than just like a random audience. So I usually start with that. And I always try to look at like, what's a, what's a new, interesting lifestyle.
And like, for example, with, with the brick one, it's like, there's this whole generation of people who are like anti-phones and
they're buying like dumb phones um and it's starting to get it's starting you just start to see it like the posts that are going viral are like i left my phone and went for a walk and and then i see who replies i'm like that's a dumb post like and i see who replies to it and it's at jice cream on twitter oh my god i never thought about taking a walk
And it's like, great, you know, and you can sell that you make $100,000 a year and you can sell that at five times ARR if you want.
I just feel bad for the receptionist at the climbing place. That's what I feel.
Yeah, exactly.
I would say, uh, I'm targeting people of the XYZ community.
Of the climbing community, of the anti-smartphone community, of the, you know...
keto diet diet community yeah i think those are the strongest and those unsocial just do the best because people people people see that content and you know half the people are more than half the people are like this doesn't pertain to me but the people who are into keto are like really into keto and then once you you know what once you
What most people are doing and what people are missing on faceless channels is they're not picking these niches. They're not really picking niches. They're just like, how do I get as much views as possible so I can monetize via ads? Whereas The move is to be like, what is the most high impact niche to go after? And then how do I create faceless content for that niche?
you build this faceless YouTube channel or it could be on other platforms too. It could be on Instagram, whatever. Once you have that audience and now you're like one of the de facto places where that community is getting content, then that's when you can build like a set of products and services for that audience.
And the reason like I love starting at audience first is now you understand that audience better than anyone. Because when you're optimizing scripts, And you're optimizing titles and you're optimizing thumbnails. And the difference between one word is the difference if your video pops that day or goes nowhere. And that's like the YouTube algorithm.
I've had videos that just changing a word to a number is the difference between 40,000 views and 400 views. And that's just the reality. That's just the reality. And especially if you're relying on this for income, if that's the difference between $40 a day or $4 a day, sorry, and $400 a day or $4,000 a day, like you're going to pay attention to what this audience clicks.
And it's not just like the clickbait. It's also the retention. What is going to retain these people? So that's why I think doing a faceless channel in a particular niche, great way to get started if you want to start a business.
Yes.
Oh, 100%. Do you feel, now that you know how the sausage is made, are you embarrassed to watch faceless video?
Yeah. It's YouTube channels.
Right. And I think that's the hallmark of a great video, right? I think like if you're creating faceless, you know, YouTube content, for example, Just create great YouTube content.
That's so lame. That is so lame, right? Like when I, that's the thing with faceless YouTube channels is they all are making money on Patreon and, um,
Would it be? Here's my take. Here's my take. Hit me. I'm about to hit you. You don't even know what's coming right now. Okay. All right. The amount of work it takes to create a faceless YouTube channel in a lower quality niche is And a faceless YouTube channel with a higher quality niche that has the potential to extend beyond ads to create something really simple.
I'm talking about you're selling a PDF, you know, on Gumroad. You're creating a paid community on school. You're like, I'm talking, you know, you're creating a pretty simple SaaS app. Like these are things that especially now, the tools are so easy and there's global talent. I just figure if I'm going to build any faceless YouTube channel, I'd much rather it be the latter, not the former.
That's true. By the way, you know what also is a faceless YouTube channel? Literally like every animation channel. The Infographics Show. Do you know that one? No, but that's on the list, actually. So they've got 14.3 million subscribers. So we're talking... This is a top YouTube channel. Like, period.
Yeah. And they create a video every day. I'm almost certain that they use AI. Sorry. And they do... So I'll read you some of their videos. Like their latest video is how your pet is trying to warn you that you are going to die. And it's a four hour and six minute video. So these people are creating long videos, animation, AI enhanced. You know what?
I bet you on a video like that, just on ad revenue, they are making... you know, 10 grand, 15 grand easy. Because how long it is.
Totally. I think that's the secret that no one's talking about is if you look on social, Quora, Reddit, TikTok, even other YouTube videos, you see which videos are being validated. So if you could basically create faceless versions of them, but also add value, you're not going to... Don't go on YouTube, find a non-faceless video and create a Facebook video because...
You want to give credit to Cody Schneider.
It's probably not going to work if it's just a copy. And it's just wrong, frankly.
Not going to work.
I don't know why you're not doing it.
And I think everyone should start a faceless YouTube channel. At the very least.
So hopefully no one got to this point in the episode, but you should start a faceless YouTube channel. At the very least, you're going to learn about the audience and you're going to learn these AI tools, which is a win.
We'll link it. We'll link it.
I mean, worst case is this. You spend a couple hundred dollars on AI tools and you waste some time.
And you now know more about how to use these AI tools and how to build audiences more than 99.9% of the population. Literally the worst case. No one's heard of Creo. No one's heard of some of these tools. So you will be more advantageous than most people.
There's a lot of appeal and the, and you know, what does this look like if it, if it works out? Well, you've just created an audience that is, is worth millions, definitely. Uh, and might have millions of views per month, you know, building affinity, um, and, If you're working, you might be able to quit your job. You can double down. It is so much leverage in your life.
It's the same pitch around why start. Go back to 2007, 2008, 2009. Could have made the same pitch about starting an Instagram account or starting a YouTube channel or starting a Twitter account. It's like, what is the downside? You're going to lose some time and a few dollars.
Yeah. Well, I think there's, if you fail, the reality is this, here's what you're not saying. The reality is if it fails, it's not as personal.
I don't think this was a reminder of Start a faceless YouTube channel. Or start a faceless channel. Go. Do it.
Anything else you want to say before we jump?
Okay.
Okay.
I think we, I think we, what do you think? Cause I think focus is, I don't know.
That was actually pretty good.
it's an audio version of what you would have written a hundred percent yeah you nailed it you nailed it you nailed it i think there's a lot of short-term minded people in the faceless youtube game but the long term yeah the long term the long term niche focus um eventually building products and services acp funnel as i always say audience community product um
It's basically that. I mean, you got it.
should do well and at least you'll learn. So this has been real. And if you want to compliment Jonathan in the YouTube comments, he is accepting compliments. I got a haircut.
It's the only way, I hate doing this, but it's the only way the video gets seen is if we get likes and comments. So if you enjoy this, just go and quick like, quick comment. And that's how we know we should continue making these videos. We do it for you. And we do love you.
Crazy Taxi? Wow.
When was the last time you played Crazy Taxi?
I'm so out on that. Yeah. It's so glorious.
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to play it. But that is hot news. And that's actually smart to build the faceless Crazy Taxi YouTube channel before it comes out. So when it hits...
Later everyone.
So if you want to do this, here's how I would do it using mostly AI tools. All right. Jonathan, Jice, Cream, Courtney, you're back.
Well, that's because the DTC bro is now the faceless YouTube bro who was previously the crypto bro.
right so like the next this is like the next gold rush and quick ad break let me tell you about a business i invested in it's called boringmarketing.com so a few years ago i met this group of people that were some of the best seo experts in the world they were behind getting some of the biggest companies found on google and the secret sauce is they've got a set of technology and ai
that could help you outrank your competition. So for my own businesses, I wanted that. I didn't want to have to rely on Mark Zuckerberg. I didn't want to depend on ads to drive customers to my businesses. I wanted to rank high in Google. That's why I like SEO and that's why I use boringmarketing.com and that's why I invested in it.
They're so confident in their approach that they offer a 30 day sprint with 100% money back guarantee. Who does that nowadays? So check it out. Highly recommend boringmarketing.com. You know, when I say that a lot of people are going to listen to this and they're going to be like, oh, I don't want to be. I don't want to be a DTC bro or whatever.
But to your point, there's there's like a small subset of people who are doing faceless channels like so right. and actually adding value to the internet that, you know, this is just one of the, it's just one of the best ways to build an audience right now. Like just point blank.
So here's what I think people are missing with faceless video channels is like traditional media, they're monetizing it basically only with ads. So a lot of these people are just, okay, I'm going to throw up a faceless YouTube channel. I'm going to clip You know what a lot of people are doing, by the way? I don't know if you've seen this. It's all over my TikTok feed.
They're taking Joe Rogan's voice and just telling interesting stories with Joe Rogan's voice. Have you seen this?
Yeah, I've heard that. Quick story on this. Every night when I want to chill out and numb my brain a little bit, Your boy goes to TikTok. Okay? Your boy goes to TikTok. And I'm noticing that 10% of my feed is these... Joe Rogan telling these such interesting stories about like stuff that I would never expect Joe Rogan to talk about. Like how dolphins were, you know...
essentially aliens and just the craziest stuff. And it's entertaining. I'm not saying I believe that dolphins, you know, are, you know, I, I'm not saying I believe that, you know, dolphins are, you know, smarter than human beings and like colonized, you know, the planet and stuff like that. Anyways, point is I'm getting these videos left, right and center.
And I'm like, at a certain point I was like, there's no way that Joe Rogan said this. There's just absolutely zero chance that he's saying like thousands of these stories. And turns out it's a faceless TikTok YouTube channel. I don't remember the name. And people like that are making, you know, 10 to 100K a month on these channels. But I think the move is not to do it with ads.
You're like the gecko of the Startup Ideas podcast.
It's to build your own products. Like I talk about always the ACP funnel, right? Build an audience, then convert to a community and then build a product for them. What most people are doing and what people are missing on faceless channels is they're not picking these niches. They're not really picking niches. They're just like, how do I get as much views as possible so I can monetize via ads?
Whereas The move is to be like, what is the most high-impact niche to go after? And then how do I create faceless content for that niche?
So if you want to do this, here's how I would do it using mostly AI tools. So step one is you got to come up with ideas. You need a script and you want to optimize your script. I would probably use a mixture of ChatGPT, Cloud, Um, I'd probably use a tool like gummy search, um, which I'm actually going to create a whole search. Yeah.
I'm going to create, I'm actually going to create a whole separate video on how to mine for gold on Reddit and some of these platforms.
Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really key. It's really cool. I use it every day actually. So I'm going to, I'll do, um, I'll do a whole video on that, but I would use that to basically see like in different subreddits, um, What is being, you know, what's popular? What are people talking about? And then, yeah, I would use ChatGPT and Clo to create that script. You could also use Fiverr to supplement it.
Step two is you need to create the images. So, you know, before... If you want to create a viral YouTube video, it's all about title and thumbnail. So you want to optimize for the image. So I'd probably use Dally 2 or something like that for the image generation. Step three is you're going to have to create the video. So there's a bunch of tools like this. There's NVIDIA AI.
There's a new one called, let me pull it up. It's called Crayo. C-R-A-Y-O. Creo.ai.
These are like faceless YouTube guys who created this.
What is the thing that you find the most difficult and painful about entrepreneurship?
Oh, my God.
I'm I'm I'm I'm going to just continue drinking mouth. Yeah. Until further notice. Okay, wait, I just want to make sure I got... So you basically just don't ever get to the point where you feel overwhelmed or stressed. You don't go too close to the sun.
Great, dude.
All right, dude.
Fucking Superman over there. So the unfortunate answer to this question is you are as chilled as you seem. Unfortunately. Would your employees say that you are a chilled person to work with?
So, ah, do people say that about, like, I know that people say about me that I'm very direct, but also like, I don't talk about the positive things. I'm just talking about the night. I'm like a very much a firefighter. Um, I jump in and I'm like, this is broken. This is broken. This is broken. We need to fix this, this, this, this, this let's do this, this, this, this, this goodbye.
Um, and that obviously rubs people the wrong way. And I've heard obviously negative things coming out of that. Uh, like no one, no one who works with me would say, oh, Jonathan's so chilled. It wouldn't be what they would, uh, talk about me publicly.
Yeah, yeah.
All right, dude.
Just topless, but like not in shape.
Oh, that sounds dangerous.
twitter's api you know is is being shut off or whatever it is okay okay well you can tell i came to this uh session today uh in a stressed mode and i just wanted you to say you get stressed too but fuck you greg yeah yeah i mean i do get stressed but But you never get to the point where you're like, fuck this thing. Fuck LCA. I'm selling it. I'm done with all this.
I'm going to go live in a cabin and then I'll get, I'll think about what I want to do in about five years.
I get to that point multiple times per year, not just with it. Like just it's part of the way my brain works. Sometimes I'm like, ah,
Well, first of all, I'm very grateful for the revenue and profit it generates. And I love the business and it is a big part of my life. It's just sort of part of how my brain works, I would say. Sometimes I just hit a wall and get sick of something and I just want to move on to something new and interesting. I generally... Hold myself back from doing that and like stay on the core business.
Okay. All right. So before you hit record, I asked you if it was going to be okay to bring this topic to you and you just pressed record. So you don't know what it is yet. So that's how the podcast works. I like it. I've been pushing. So I've been running my company for 14 years coming up in September, AJ and Smart. And there's been many...
And the problem is sometimes it's also worked out really well. Like I remember a couple of years ago, like seven or eight years ago, I was so sick of just focus or relying on client work to make money. And you maybe know the cash flow kind of variation when you're just doing client consulting work. And we started the education business with in-person training and then online training.
And that moved our burn rate from three months to 15 months to 18 months. And I was like, holy shit, just being super annoyed at something sometimes generates interesting things. Yeah. I mean, what I often say is I'm not the right person to be the CEO because I am the person when I get annoyed with something, even if it's making money, I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore.
I don't want us to do this anymore.
Laura and I have talked about this multiple times and I think... Yeah, one part about it is the idea of looking for someone sounds annoying. And I've heard that process is very difficult and often doesn't work out. The other part is maybe I'm just not ready to let it go just yet. The other part is I did bring in a CEO for the consulting business and fucking shit hit the fan majorly.
Can you assess whether we should have a new CEO? Can we do an assessment? You own so many companies.
Four times maybe per year.
I'm not against it. I think, you know, we're, we're doing sort of a big relaunch in September. I talked, I talked to you a little bit about it off the podcast. And I think that's the point where I like, I basically have the vision for the next 12 months, which I'm very excited about and very happy about and very proud of. Um,
And I feel like once that's in place, that's the next 10 years worth of stuff for the company to do. And I think I'd prefer, I prefer for in that decade to be more in the role of the person who is bringing product ideas and bringing the, maybe be like being the, the sounding board for someone else who's running it versus being the person running it and making the decisions. Yeah.
It's a, it's a constant conversation, dude. This is, I have no idea if any of this is interesting for your audience. I'm just telling you, I just answered your question. Sorry. I mean, you're like, you're like, the audience is here to learn how to start a business.
And we're like, so when you're 15 years into it and it's already making millions, here's the small problems that you're going to, you know, I think, uh, if I were you, I would also become a hold co-entrepreneur. Yeah, I have to talk. I don't even really know what that is.
basically the topic I want to talk about is kind of like burnout and keeping going as a self-employed kind of solopreneur entrepreneur. Like, I guess my first question is, do you ever feel just like, fuck, like I just have so much going on. There's just too much. I just want to get rid of it all and go sell it and live in a cabin in the woods in Canada.
Like, so I would basically have a holding company and then that would own AJ and smart and that would also own other companies and I would be on like the board of these companies.
You know what? You know what I don't like about that for me?
I really optimize for peace. I like peace and calm and quiet and not a lot of stuff going on. I don't even like traveling because it kind of breaks me out of my routine and I love my routine. I had a holding company which I shut down in December and I was doing investments and I was looking into this concept.
And I think the way my brain works, that would feel... I'd love to help other companies with their products and their strategy with no paperwork at all. And I heard Jason Fried saying this recently. If they make shit tons of money and they feel like reimbursing me for the work I did, great. But I don't know if I actually want to have...
I don't know if I want to do the paperwork for the, and I know I wouldn't personally be doing the paperwork. I wasn't personally doing the paperwork for my holding company and my company. It's just that world of adding.
Well, the holding company I had, which I started, it's just a vehicle for owning other things.
But there's lots of legal and paperwork behind that. It's a whole other company.
I hate it. No, I hope some people in the comments understand me here. But I feel so much better when I'm working on one thing like doing like it's... I like simplicity and peace. And I would always choose that over complexity, even if it means way more money.
I don't sign every deal. Like $450,000 deals will come in, which I won't even see. It's more that I feel like I'm going to come across like a complete idiot on this call because this is the truth. Because my entrepreneur friends also think I'm stupid when it comes to this stuff. It is, there's more noise when I have holding company plus AJ and smart, plus a few other things going on.
There's more text messages, there's more emails, there's more slacks. And it doesn't matter how like automated and incentivized everyone is. Someone will always come to me and say, yeah, you know, I'd actually like to talk about my compensation for doing this thing in this company. And I, I simply don't enjoy the amount of new open threads it creates.
Someone we know, you and I know, Sam, somewhat, Sam Ovens, he has a similar brain in a way that he hyper-focuses on one thing and leaves infinite money on the table because of wanting to avoid complexity. And so for me, I view that as more complex than I want to go to, even though everyone tells me I'm stupid about it and I don't disagree with them.
So I agree it's stupid that I won't do the Holiko thing, but it just makes me feel stressed. It's the reason I also don't own a place. I have a very simple, easy setup life.
So I guess my first question before I even ask, Any other questions? Because I want to learn some shit from you here. Do you get to those phases where you're just done with it all?
abstract away meaning giving it to other people correct dude it always comes back yeah it always comes back it like as in for me it it still like let's say um like there's always things that come back to the legal owner yeah you know what i mean eventually yeah obviously but you know it doesn't it doesn't have to happen like very frequently
Yeah, exactly. I am literally talking about that level. But it's like, all right, I don't know, again, what you want to put on the podcast. I have a kid in the picture that makes everything 10 times louder and 10 times more complicated. And she's not in the kindergarten. And now there's an outbreak of a vomiting bug. And now I have this thing over here. And now I have this thing over here.
It makes me feel... stressed and like loud, even when one thing per extra thing per quarter comes in. Whereas when I'm just running one business, it's still a lot of stuff, but dude, you know what? I think I need to talk to you about this. Cause maybe you're right.
Maybe I'm just doing way too many things that are completely unnecessary, but I have these phases where I like step out of everything and then I'm like, all right, I'm free. And And then I'm like, I'm going to go in. And then I'm like, I'm overwhelmed. And finding this middle ground between bored and overwhelmed, I find very tricky.
Do you have a financial goal? I think that's one of the issues I have is that I don't know what I'm actually working toward. I don't have like, oh, this would be the number I would love to have or this is the thing I'm trying to do. With AJ and Smart, I'm like 10 million revenue, but it's like a random thing I pull out of my head. It's not a...
Do you have, for yourself personally, do you have like a financial goal on a yearly basis or like when you want to retire, like when do you want to be financially free, something like that? Am I coming across as like really neurotic and weird on this episode?
I really appreciate that you do actually put out the podcast unedited like this.
I mean, in a way, it can be painful to watch because there are any awkward silences between you and I are still in there. I'd appreciate if your editors would remove some of that. But I think it's cool that you're willing to just put it out there and including the fact that you say these sayings and then forget them and just doesn't matter.
So I think this could be the title and this could be the clip here coming up because I feel like What is the thing that you find the most difficult and painful about entrepreneurship? So my answer to that question is that I do have the feeling that there's a lot of weight on my shoulders to make the decisions that move us forward.
the financial well-being of the people who are employed by me and like the direction and all of that. And then sometimes I'm like, man, I wonder, could I just make the same amount of money not doing all of that and not having all of this responsibility?
So for me, definitely there's this feeling of wouldn't it be great if someone else would just tell me what to do sometimes instead of having to be basically creative all the time? what do you find painful or negative or what sometimes really gets you about being an entrepreneur? I'm trying to get fucking anything out of you, man.
And then I would say, because I guess we're just different types of entrepreneurs, I would say that it would be difficult for me to go all in on one of them and really like, I don't know, I feel like right now with AJ and Smart, We've the last couple of years, we've been sort of like, are we a training company or are we a consulting company?
And I think actually we're about to go in a direction that will be more akin to the way you're doing it today. where we have a bit more separation between the brands. And actually, maybe all of this bullshitting I've been talking about in this episode is going to be all undone when people see the relaunch because it's a bit more holdco-y. But yeah, I think for me, I struggle.
First of all, uncertainty, absolutely. I think if you inherently struggle with uncertainty, I don't think you'll even go into entrepreneurship. Absolutely.
Like, you know, your podcast talks a lot about ideas and I think ideas are great and all, but underneath... You can't come on the Startup Ideas podcast.
No, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, I think you'll agree with the next thing I'm going to say. Ideas are really important, but the person who's actually executing the ideas and their mindset and their abilities is just as important, if not more. Like if you took any of Cody Schneider's ideas, his second name is Schneider, right?
Okay, if you took any of Cody's ideas, but you were really worried about uncertainty all the time and you were still like, I don't know, you just had this and you also got overwhelmed very easily and you had a lot of fear, you'd have a harder time than someone who is more entrepreneurially inclined. You'd struggle with it more. And so I think ideas are, execution is just extremely important.
Execution Ideas Podcast. Oh, no. Startup Execution Podcast.
Actually, yeah, then let me put my statement more clear. I do actually think execution is more important than the ideas themselves. And I've seen people try to execute the same ideas as I do, but they give up much quicker than me. And so therefore, it's as if it didn't matter in the first place.
Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you are right on that one. I guess when I say execution, I mean the actual ability to follow through and even hire that person. Yeah.
All right. Just so you can say this is the name of the podcast. I told you the topic wasn't necessarily related.
similar similar yeah similar like really cult they become super overcrowded everyone loves them i also love them um yeah i don't know what you're going to say next but that part is similar what i'm going to say next is that i think that so this town that has the farmer's market
So talk to me about this. You work every day, by the way, which I think is... who gives a shit? Like there's no rules about when you can work and when you can't work. And I think it's ridiculous that, yeah, everyone's trying to jam everything into the Monday to Friday. And actually that could be causing a lot of burnout because you're jamming it all in there.
I love it. And you could even like... Okay, so the idea would be you're running... Is it like a two-sided marketplace as well where you're also essentially bringing the customers by being also the advertiser for the event?
Okay, so... That's really cool because what you could also do, and you know, if you want to get funding, you have to say the word AI. So you have to use AI to find the perfect towns where you can set this up, where you can say, find me. We use this amazing AI to find the towns which do not yet have farmers markets, but have all of the supply areas. And are surrounded by a lot of demand.
And so we find these center points and we turn them into these third spaces where people from different towns can come together. And you could also then expand it to... I don't know if you guys... Flea markets in Berlin are also super popular. And they combine flea markets with farmer's markets. And it's like a whole thing. You could just expand out to anything where...
Then you're like, now is my time where I take my break and now I'm back. So you said you work best in the morning. So the reason you work every day is just so you can work every morning instead of having to work full days, just Monday to Friday. Like how much do you tend to, Like what's your workday look like?
It's like a big logistical thing as well because, well, that also gives it sort of like a moat because if you can get this working, it's really hard to compete with. There's a, I'm not going to reveal where I live, but there's a market near to where I live.
And the company obviously who runs the market, you know, they set up the tables, they set everything up so that the different companies can just, like there's a place here, if you Google it, called Mark Talanoin. And you rent the space. They have the space. They've now expanded it out onto the streets. It's unbelievably popular.
And it's gone from being a farmer's market to now there being events on Thursday nights. And Saturday, there's this cheese event. And then there's a chocolate-focused event. That shit is expanding like crazy. And I never thought about it being an actual... I never thought about the idea that you could be the...
middleman in between all of these places even then finding the location even like renovating the place being the person who brings all the tables you could really like corner that market in your area are you gonna do it probably not you got enough but you got your whole co you can just like you abstract it out abstract it out i'm i'm i'm really into uh
How would you start something like that? Would you start by going to the suppliers? Would you start by looking for the space? Like what would be the early steps? If someone in your audience actually wants to give this a try, what would be like some of the, tomorrow this would be the first thing to do?
Yeah. Yeah. I remember, I think I was in like Sweden recently and I was looking, there was like this timeout food court. I was like, what the, why timeout? Timeout what? I didn't get the connection with the magazine. And so for me, I just had no idea what that meant. It was like, I'm going to take a little break, take a little time out. Okay. So this... idea is super interesting.
I have the boring agency that can go along with it. So let's say the Holdco that creates this farmer's market will have another business, will own another business, which is like... The business that you can hire to help you basically invent and conceptualize and create the logistics around events like this.
I honestly think if you had... One of the most difficult things to do... I'm flying to Palo Alto in a couple of weeks to run a training event. And... Selling the event, and the tickets are like 10K each, was 100 times easier than arranging the event and organizing it and getting the catering sorted. And in the end, we spent approximately $30,000, probably more than $30,000 to get it all organized.
And we couldn't find anyone to help us with this. We ended up almost doing every element of it ourselves, or at least we didn't find any influencer or brand or YouTube channel that talks about setting up events in a way that would make us reach out to them and contact them. And I was thinking just when you were talking there is we need the Greg Eisenberg or we need the, you know, specific info.
We need me for in the facilitation world. But for event management, which is, first of all, seen as a job no one really wants to do. And it's like always in the top lists of most stressful jobs to do as well. but it is a thing that a lot of companies wanna do events, especially now post COVID, a lot of companies wanna go back to doing more in-person things.
And it is really difficult to find anyone to help with that, to help with the logistics. Literally the brief would have been, We're running an event in Palo Alto. It's four days long. There's this many people. Can you fucking help us figure this out? And we'll give you a 10K commission, whatever the commission is on the thing. And we couldn't find anybody. So we did it ourselves.
So for this idea that you have, it would be amazing if you as the entrepreneur, if you were starting it, could call up event in person co and say, Hey Greg, like we're thinking about doing this thing in this town. Uh, I really do not want to be involved in the logistics of it for the first one, at least. Can you do like an event sprint for us and get it off the ground next time?
How do you figure out what those three things are? Are you doing any sort of like, I don't know, task making exercises or prioritization things? Or is it just like you wake up and you're like, here's the fires or here's the interesting things to do? Or what does it look like?
We'll do it all ourselves because you'll have connected us with all the people, but how do we get this event off the ground? Can you do an event sprint for us? Like that type of company desperately needs to exist.
Someone who is very good at organizing stuff and enjoys that and gets pleasure out of it needs to start an event management company that isn't a website with pictures of big speakers and PA systems on it. It's a video of a person showing you how to do it all yourself, Greg, content style, but for event management, honestly, I think would be a game changer.
I think you could start it in basically every city and these people will be booked out forever.
So those are like these like brand activation things, right?
Yeah, if you want to look at what I was looking at, go to Google or if your team wants to show this, you Google event management Palo Alto. Palo Alto, like one of the wealthiest places on the planet. And hopefully you see the opportunity I'm talking about. Oh, man. I don't want to shit on any of the companies. I just want to say we ended up having to do it ourselves.
I didn't, I really, I really, but also like this, you know, Laura organized our Palo Alto event, booked the location, booked the catering. She's our head of marketing. This is how difficult, and every day of her time is worth a lot of money. 100%. It's crazy.
Did I save myself at the end there after shitting all over the podcast and saying it's all about execution?
We literally do and reply to every single one as well.
Yes, please. And thank you so much, Greg, for having me on the podcast again. Thank you so much to Greg's audience also for the really kind comments. And your audience is really great. And like Greg said, we genuinely read every single one. Makes our day when you guys have something to say. Absolutely no criticism is accepted. No, just kidding.
By the way, it's a perfect example of my peace thing. I just don't use social media because I don't want to keep going into all the services and seeing what's going on.
I'm worried. I'm worried that, no, no, I'm using Twitter now. I'm using X because of you.
And I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying, I only downloaded, I only went back to X after being on the episode with you a couple of weeks ago for the first time in seven years or something. So I'm actually having a lot of fun on there now.
Okay. I'm following your advice. I'm trying to follow your advice anyway.
Me building an audience. Bye, everyone. Bye.
So I'll tell you where my struggle comes from. So I agree, it's fun. I also don't have productivity systems. And honestly, most of the people I know who have really detailed productivity systems are generally entrepreneurs. They pretend they are going to be entrepreneurs, but all they do is just make systems, but they don't make any money at all.
I actually know someone who is, I don't want to, it could be too close. Let's say I know a person called Kevin, just because I have this book here, who obsesses about systems and reading all the books and reading all the entrepreneurship stuff and collect all these systems and everything.
literally has never made one dollar as an entrepreneur mainly works in corporates but talks about being an entrepreneur all the time and so i would generally agree with you productivity stuff is just like not for real business people here's the non-system system i'll give it to you the non-system hit me greg eisenberg's non-system system is this wake up relatively early What's early for you?
Okay, let me ask for some context here. Feel free to cut any of this out. Not cutting any of this out. I'm going to ask questions as if you might cut stuff out, but I'm just going to ask freely, okay? Yes. Many times when I'm talking to entrepreneurs who are very relaxed and I'm confused about why they're so relaxed, I find out that they're already ludicrously rich. So I'll give you an example.
I know an entrepreneur who talks a lot about know not pushing too hard and and like it's all easy and it's all fine and i found out that he got like an a 18 million dollar kind of inheritance uh a very long time ago and then i was like of course i wouldn't be burnt out if i had 18 million in my bank account so my question is
Were you always this, well, first of all, do you have like crazy inheritance and you just don't give a shit about money and it's all good?
You seem very chill, but you also seem to get a lot done.
Honestly, yeah, it's tricky because I'll tell you for me, one of the things that gets me or the times where I'm the least chill is usually when a part of the business is not working necessarily or very well. And I can tell that it needs like an overhaul in order to start working well again.
For example, like last year, the consulting or like the corporate consulting and corporate training side of the business just needed a massive overhaul. And I could tell like basically stagnating revenue, stagnating profits. Actually, the profits were starting to slowly go down and I could just see
Shit, like in a few months time, this is going to be hitting the break even point and then we're going to start losing cash flow. And... I see a project of that size and sometimes I'm just like, I'm just not in the mood to do that right now. Like I'm not in the mood to take it on.
And this could be related to the way I have not necessarily hired and staffed up in the way maybe you have like a TO at LCA who seems to just be able to take things and run with them. But Laura and I at AJ and Smart definitely have this feeling that if we, if something starts to stagnate, it's not possible to fix it without me personally jumping in or Laura personally jumping in.
Do you still get dragged into things like that? Or are you just totally, are you out of this sort of revenue, cash flow, day-to-day stuff?
I'm sipping here. I'm sipping over here. Sipping time, baby. I'm sipping some bouche. I don't know if it's pronounced bouche. Bouche.
Sure. And actually, just to be clear, and I know this is becoming a therapy session for me. Thanks, Greg. I don't work an abnormal amount of hours. It's more like the amount of hours I do. And sometimes it is three or four hours. They... they can be quite consequential for the business. They can be the ones that make the decision that makes us the money for the next six months.
And obviously, I have experimented with stepping out and being out of the business for quite some time. And then more stagnation sort of kicks in. So I guess at least today, I feel like I'm still... very much needed. And that, I guess that stress of knowing that if I just take my eye off the ball, something can fall apart.
Any person running a successful business will now say, well, your business is not robust enough. You're right. And that's what I'm trying to figure out. But yeah, like that's the stuff that kind of stresses me out. Doesn't mess with my sleep. It isn't all the time, but it does. There are like sometimes weeks where I'm like, oh man, now I want to sell the company.
Like whenever I'm annoyed with AJ and smart, I'm like, fuck this. I'm just taking the money out and I'm done. You know, that, that, that comes to my mind.
It means mouth? Oh, no. I'm sipping on some mouth.
Obviously we're, we're running a, this is a entrepreneur podcast. Like it's, it's a, we're not trying to help people figure out how to,
do important life although we're yeah we're talking about fuck anyone saying their champagne problems they're coming to this podcast to listen to two relatively successful entrepreneurs talk about stuff fuck you i'm just i just think that someone's listening to this and being like burnout you know like i'm just trying to
Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, I only realize now that Zin is these pouches that they also sell in Sweden. So like easy access. But I heard they can be quite addictive. Yeah.
Well, you Americans, right? And I was really thinking about that this week. You Americans are all like, you've got this zin stuff. I actually don't know if it's a patch or if it's a chewing gum.
I mean, you could even simplify it down to whatever jobs require you to decide at the age of 18 that you're going to do that job, the chances of you actually liking it by the time you're 36 is very low. Like a lot of the people in my town in Ireland, anyone who is smart and good at math was basically told to do civil engineering. I don't think I know anyone who actually does that job now.
it's like engineering the engineering kind of mathematics behind like stressors on buildings and stuff like I know so it's like if you you study civil engineering you're you become an engineer right a civil engineer so what does that even mean I don't fucking know. But one of my friends is a video game designer right now. I was just going to say the name of the company, but I won't.
And he, yeah, like that's an example of a transition path that not a lot of people who went into civil engineering might know about. I mean, in the end, sometimes it's just about seeing what other people do, right? Sometimes how you calibrate what you want to do with your life is just by looking at someone else and being like, oh yeah, like I could do that with my life.
I can't even say that. I'm not even going to try to say it.
I 100% believe that. Um, that's why I also like, so we talked about this before I live in Europe. Europe is very laid back. Um, you can see it from the economy, but it's like, it's super laid back. I even live in the country with like one of the best economies in Europe. I live in Germany. It's so, so laid back compared to the U S uh, from a career point of view. And I
I do have to sometimes just get on a flight like I am in a couple of weeks and go to California just to like, you know, be in San Francisco, be in LA, hang around with other founders who are just a lot more focused and successful and like driven than me. They're just on a lot more zin than you are. I didn't know that dude. Now I know. No. Okay.
So not everyone is, but I definitely learned, uh, I learned a lot about Zen in the last few months. Um, yeah, Americans definitely, uh, have a very unfair advantage of having like a lot of chemical compounds going at the same time to keep them very awake. Uh, I don't know whether I think that's a good thing or a bad thing. I just am now aware of this.
But yeah, there's also just this energy in the US, this energy in places like San Francisco, which I then, if I'm there a few weeks, I do start to mimic it, right? I do start to, there's this like Tony Robbins says, proximity is power. I think nothing beats it, right? If I spent more time with you in person, I'd become more like you. If you spent more time like me in person, you become way cooler.
But really, it just is that, right? It's really hard to get away from this proximity thing. Totally separate topic, but it's also why... I speak to a lot of entrepreneurs. I'm in a lot of entrepreneur groups. And one common problem people have is like, things aren't working out for me. And I often ask, where do you live? Like, as in, do you live like near where stuff is happening?
Oh, no, like during COVID, I moved out into the middle of nowhere. And like, I've got this amazing house, but it's like three hours from anywhere. And I'm like, it's really hard to simulate the proximity thing. Like you do need to be near stuff physically, the energy, like I live in Berlin and I live in an area that's super busy and there's a lot going on and it feels, it just, there's a momentum.
It's a little bag that you put up here. Yeah. Oh, okay. A lot of people in the Nordic countries use that too, but not for productivity because, hey, guess what? Nobody from Nordic countries is going to be watching this show for productivity ain't the thing.
There's something about, not to say that being in a nice, peaceful, still place isn't a beautiful thing to have. It's just, if that's your day to day, you will also become more chill. You, you, you start to mimic that environment as well. I mean, where you look like you're in a pretty chill place right now, but you you're often in Miami, right?
Yes.
I was going to I was going to push you on that one because I am really trying to build a community in my in my physical neighborhood here in Berlin. Like two nights ago, I was hanging out at my neighbor's house just downstairs. We're in a like a high rise building, I guess. playing the new Elden Ring DLC. I'm cooking dinner for neighbors. I know the people working in the different shops here.
But yeah, I was thinking, I was literally like, maybe I need to start taking some of these powerful concoctions of stuff that Americans take to get work done. Um, but yeah, in the end I just ended up waiting until I didn't have COVID anymore, but I do have some fun topic. I do have one main topic for you today. I think it's like.
So I do love to be integrated into my community. Yeah, this is interesting, right? A city is a utility. And this is actually, this is a totally different topic. I guess we're just on topic two.
There's a lot of, I never, I don't post about remote work versus in-person work and cities versus urban environments anymore because people go, people who are like, who've made the decision to like no cities forever get so angry about it. Like if you now, for example, had moved to wherever you are right now and had decided I am now a monk living in the middle of nowhere.
And I was like, cities are a great place to get like this proximity. And you'd be like, oh, no, you can't say that for everyone. But because you're flexible and you can move between these two worlds, it doesn't bother you. And I think the objective truth about this is.
First of all, if you're already balling out of control, unbelievably rich, and your momentum is crazy and your network is insane, sure, sell everything, leave the city, live in the middle of nowhere. You don't need any more money and you don't need any more connections. And let's say your purpose is gardening, then you do not need to think about this ever again.
But if you're still on your journey, I do think cities are, they're not just a place to go have fun. They are a utility that you pay for. Like, there's a reason also people are like, oh, if you live in Berlin, you pay this much for an apartment. But if you just move two hours outside, you can get a house for that price. And I'm like, yes, I'm not just paying for physical space.
I'm paying to be close to people who are doing things that I want to do. I'm paying for this energy. It is actually a service to live in the city. I actually heard like someone was commenting, someone was posting recently, oh, Munich is getting so expensive. It's ridiculous, whatever. And this other German guy underneath wrote and everyone was agreeing. Right. And I was also like, yeah, sure.
Like Germany is getting expensive. Everywhere is getting expensive. And
was kind of in agreement i was like okay yeah everything's expensive this and then somebody wrote underneath it's not your human right to live in the center of a city like it's not a human right to live in the center of an expensive city obviously different story if you live there now you're getting kicked out because of gentrification but you as a you know me as an irish guy who went to college
I have absolutely no right to live in the center of Berlin. I don't, by the way, it's actually insanely expensive, but I have no right to do that. So it is a utility, it's a service, and you're paying a premium because of the services and the amenities provided. That's a whole separate thing.
But like, for example, I know if I wanted to live in San Francisco where the center of this AI explosion is right now, if I was in AI and I wanted to like basically increase my chances of a successful outcome, I'd have to pay the price and live in a place like San Francisco.
I, when I saw this and I've been looking into it for a couple of weeks, I was thinking, okay, your audience, a couple of people in your audience are going to be smart enough and hustling enough to take this and actually turn this into a business.
I'm not looking for that, but that is really the price of getting the rewards of living in a physical space that brings you closer to all the things you want. And I think a lot of people need to change their mindset about that when they're saying I can get a seven story house out in the middle of nowhere. It's like, yeah, you can. And you just need to understand the trade off. You can do that.
And that's really cool. It's just about understanding these trade offs is important. Am I going down a bad rabbit hole?
It is absolutely that. A practical example of this is talking to someone today who is talking about digital marketing and how do I do this and how do I get calls and it's really difficult to get calls and da-da-da-da-da.
And then I was like, I was trying to give advice, but then I was like, but the truth is how I started was I was in a coworking space in the center of Berlin, which was full of startups. And I physically talked to them and then I got work. Like I went drinking with them. That like, that's the truth. And now I could move out into the middle of nowhere and build a career. But it is...
Um, and it's based on, I was, so I'm in a couple of different entrepreneurial groups and one of the groups I was in, I was listening to the call last week. Again, I was like out of my head with COVID, just like slow, sweaty, whatever. Um, But I was listening to this woman and she was getting help with the marketing challenge.
of course possible to build a career remotely and not in a city. It's just the challenge. It is kind of like playing on hard mode versus easy mode. You get the, it's like in a video game, you're putting the attributes into comfort. You're putting all your points into comfort and convenience, but then the, you have like low ability to get leads and build a career remotely. And I agree.
I think all of these options are like people who want to live out in the middle of nowhere like you right now. I think that is absolutely amazing as long as you understand the trade off. And I think a lot of people are convinced by a lot of people who still haven't built their careers yet. are convinced by some sort of part of the media to move out to the suburbs before they get any momentum.
And then there's sometimes a little bit of resentment later in life, like, oh, I could have done this, I could have done that. And it's like, yeah, you would have had to pay The city tax to get that, to get those things. Or you have to become a fucking amazing content creator, which is hard to do. Or like a world-class marketer, which is also hard to do.
Totally. I want that insurance too.
I think it's, but it's, yeah, we've, we've gone deeply into another topic, but I, I would love if some of my friends and entrepreneur friends had, uh, not jumped so aggressively on the COVID, everything is going to be remote now train. And now are like, oh, it's really weirdly hard to get work. Like, yeah, it is.
It is difficult when you didn't get that momentum, career momentum before you went away. I think that's the challenge. I think there has been this like, It's back to your mimetic, the wanting book. I got to read this. I think the mimetic desire thing works more powerfully in person. It just has more of a powerful draw in person, but also, God damn it, in-person stuff's just easier.
She was talking for a while and eventually I was just like, I'm really sorry, do you mind if I ask you how much your coaching program costs? And she said, oh yeah, yeah, it's $38,000 per year. And I was like... What the fuck? What are you? How? And the reason I was so shocked is because what she's selling is she's selling a program. It's not an online course.
It feels like it's easier to start a career when you're in an environment where just other people are doing that too. For example, when I moved to Berlin, I just copied one of my friend's careers. He was a UX designer. We both studied digital media production. And I was just like, you're doing what? And we would go out drinking and I would talk to him about it. And then he'd show me his portfolio.
He'd tell me how much he got paid. And I'm just like, I'm copying you, dude. Eric, thank you so much for letting me copy everything. You did. I appreciate it, dude. But yeah, that shit would be very challenging to do where I come from, which is a small town in Ireland, because I don't know if there's a UX designer there. You know what I mean? A UX designer. I don't know if there's one.
I don't know if there was one back when I was starting. I went down there. We rabbited.
How do you split your time between this place you are right now and Miami?
10 blog posts i want to write just fly up here spend a week here and fly back that's so cool and and you know here's the thing audience if i would spend more time with greg then i would get more successful and be able to have two places where i live so i just need to spend more time in greg's proximity absorbing his energy and then just those dollars and Come flying in.
That's how it's going to work.
Yeah, thank you so much, everybody. Appreciate your time.
Thanks everyone. Bye.
It's like a kind of one year program of coaching to teachers who don't want to be teachers anymore and who want to transition out of that career into being something else. And then I was like, okay, wait a minute. There are a lot of different careers that people are in and they probably don't know that they can take their skills and turn them into something else and get a different job.
A lot of people get burnt out from teaching. A lot of people realize like from their perspective when it's too late, that they actually don't like it. And it's a super, super popular thing for people if you look at it. So I started Googling it then. I looked at her website. Maybe I shouldn't. I don't know.
Maybe I shouldn't tell people about her specific website on this thing because I'm sharing things from within my entrepreneur group that would maybe get me kicked out of that group. But there's a couple of companies that do something like this. For example, if you just start Googling teacher transition, new career. There's one called Teaching Transition Academy. There's things like that.
And these are super high ticket programs where not all of them are high ticket. Some of them are lower ticket, but where essentially, you know, a team of people will help you figure out what you can do next. And what I love about it is that this is something that, so I run a company called ajandsmart.com
We help people become facilitators and we realize one of the most powerful things that we do is we help people go from where they are, which is usually like product management, UX design, project management to something more like facilitation, which is what they specifically want to do.
But looking at this, I was like, you could literally take almost any job, like nursing, teaching, I still think is really underserved. I was looking at it. You could even look at consultants who go and work at McKinsey and then realize they don't like it.
You could also look at things that are getting like laid off, like product managers, really think about how could you actually help this person get in? And especially if they're later in life, maybe they don't, they already have a family, maybe they're already kind of locked down to where they live.
How could you actually find something that could help these people, a program that could help these people? Or could you figure out an easy thing that they could retrain themselves on? And honestly, that can be a killer business. And I was just shocked. When I was talking to her and she was like $38,000, teachers pay $38,000, usually spread out over the 12 months.
But I was completely shocked that this was, I honestly expected her to say maximum $3,000, maximum.
There's a couple of nuances to it that I would focus on. If I was starting this business, I'd focus on people who are, who already have kids who are already settled down where they live. Maybe their kids are just like starting to move out. Maybe they're starting to realize maybe this career isn't for me. So I wouldn't be targeting anybody like,
Under 45 or maybe like it would be more like 40 and above. They'll also have more money to spend as well. So there'll be more. They'll have felt the pain also being in the industry that they don't like for a long period of time. And so I think that's why teaching. is such an amazing target. Like teachers often, I know a lot of teachers, they get to the certain point when they're like 35, 36, 37.
My sister, for example, when she was 33, she transitioned into facilitation. I think it takes a while for them to realize, oh shit, like my salary is going to go up really slowly. I can already see, I already know what my salary is going to be when I'm retiring. And this is what it's going to be like forever. And I think there are a lot of different jobs like that.
Hey, time to sip.
Teaching is just one of the most obvious, but immediately for me, what I'm always thinking is what would I do if AJ and smart failed? And yeah, One of the most obvious things after hearing the price of her coaching program was, well, I'd probably look for jobs that people feel stuck in. I do feel like.
It has to be the pain that they have to feel is that they're stuck and that their skills are not transferable, right? You don't want to be targeting people like you and me who are like full stack marketer entrepreneurs who can kind of do anything. You want to be targeting people who spent their entire year building towards one career and their entire life building towards one career.
And then you can actually help them gain the confidence to move back into the market into something different. So I think it's like a career coach on Zin, you know?
Yeah. And like, okay, so how do you build this business? Literally, especially if you're not a teacher, if I was building this, Well, first of all, you would ideally find a teacher potentially as your co-founder, a teacher who's already transitioned out. Another thing is, so literally in one day, first I would Google the shit out of it. I would look at all the Quora posts.
I was already doing this today. Looking at all the Quora questions about how to transition out of teaching, looking at all the Reddit posts about how to transition out of teaching. looking at all the different things people are doing, then I'd reach out to a lot of the people who've been posting, ask to interview them, just gather all these ideas. Then of course, I'd look at the competitors.
I'd look at all the different websites, all the different things. If I'm looking at a lot of these, they're fairly low quality from a
trust perspective i would say they look very salesy and and like bad and so i try to i would just build a more trustworthy version of these things and go content first and who i would make the content with would be teachers who have transitioned out right i'd learn from the people who've transitioned out of being teachers and build like the best content hub and
But yeah, I mean, you would just then try to, I guess it would be some form of education business, coaching business. Even better if you find like the thing that they can transition into. But honestly, I think it would be a super, it would be a super powerful business to at least replace your normal day to day corporate salary with. And you would be helping people.
I was so sick. I got COVID got that bat flu right in my brain. And it just, it really messed me up. It stopped me from being sharp. There's nothing more scary as an entrepreneur, especially if you're running your own businesses, then your brain moving slower than usual.
The stressful part is there's a lot of fear of leaving teaching and a lot of fear of won't be able to do anything else. And what that does is also makes people stay in something that's going to burn them to the ground. And eventually they end up on sick leave for, well, sometimes years. I don't know if you know any teachers who are in that setup. I do. And I think that's
There are a lot of people that I meet, especially older people who hate what they do. They absolutely hate it. And sometimes people come into our programs and they're so, and it wasn't, it's not even the intention of what we do at our company, but they're so thankful to have found something that they actually enjoy doing. And they never thought they would see an alternative.
I think, I don't know if you've ever had something like that, where you get it, you get sick or something happens and you become more stupid.
And I never connected even our marketing doesn't even touch on that topic. But hearing somebody talk about building this teaching transition coaching business where you have multiple coaches hired, don't care what you think about coaching businesses, it's just an example. But there are... Just so many people stuck in jobs, like so many people stuck when they're 55 in a job they just despise.
But the fear, the fear of not being able to do something else, you can really you can create things that are just super valuable for these people. But yeah, this teachers in transition subreddit is the perfect place to fill yourself up on the problem teachers have. It's mostly negative posts if you look at it.
The other thing I thought of is, and I found a couple of examples of this as well. Again, all... I like finding examples. We talked about this with the deep brown noise thing.
It's like fragmented, scattered all over the internet, tiny little pockets of it, but paid communities, again, paid communities for teachers who are still in teaching, who are looking for essentially a support group, but also maybe looking for a way out and just having like a private space where people can also share things that will help each other have an easier teaching life.
Again, this is not something I would personally pursue because I'm not interested in teaching. But just watching this other lady in my entrepreneur group running and I'm like, holy crap, like this is genuinely you're doing a business that makes you money, but also takes people from being burnt out and hating their lives to genuinely feeling completely different about their futures.
That's just the standard speed for you, right?
it's just crazy how many different jobs that fall into this category. I almost can't think of a job where it wouldn't fall into this category. I can even imagine if you want to go to the super high end, like the end game of this is, what do you do when you're an entrepreneur who sold their company
And you're like 40 and you've nothing to do anymore because you've nailed it and finished the video game of business. How do you transition into something else? I even think that could be a cool thing to help people with. I'm not there yet, so I can't do it.
This will make minimum $1 million per year. What if we look back to the things that were popular and exciting when we were 14.5 and you try to milk the nostalgia out of those things to create new products? And I'll give you an example. I was obsessed with the video game Halo back when I was like 13, 14. And I used to do LAN parties a lot back then.
I did. So I sent you a text message and I said, I saw this thing, I saw this survey, and also something else happened. And somehow it's connected in my mind and we need to talk about it because I think your audience needs to hear about it. And then I couldn't find the survey and then you found it. So that was the whole thing.
I'd love it, honestly. If someone does this in Berlin, I'm in. I'd rather be paying for this than a lot of other... Because this goes into a bigger topic, by the way. You know this idea that when AI gets better, we're all going to have nothing to do. And actually, entertainment becomes more and more important. Filling your time with entertainment is... It sounds ridiculous.
I also saw this guy on Twitter. He was doing this post. Maybe you saw it. It was like, since 1885, we've been living in a world of abundance. And so we don't actually need to do anything. Most of us are just making up our work. Look what we're doing right now, dude. And so entertainment becomes super, super important.
And it becomes an actual important industry because we're all going to be so bored. And I think, yeah, just tapping into that nostalgia, tapping into the IRL thing. Dude, online gaming did not kick off for me at all. The last time I really enjoyed multiplayer gaming was Halo 3 with a friend of mine, Alex, in person. I'm not the multiplayer gamer, but I love gaming.
I want to go hang out and play games with people.
Do you still play a lot of PC games?
You should, though. Treat yourself.
You should just do it. Another... Another Steam, I have the Steam deck here for anyone who hasn't seen it. The Steam store is also full to the brim of games that tap into different types of nostalgia. Right now I'm playing a game called Bellatro, which is just like a, it's kind of looks like solitaire, but it's kind of like a weird haunted poker game.
I'm also playing a game called Roadwarden at the moment, which again is just full on Game Boy Color vibes, which is super cool. And it really appeals to me. I think there's just this... I don't know. I also love AAA video games, but there's something that drags deep into my soul and deep into my wallet when I see anything relating to video gaming from when I was younger.
That mod retro, I didn't even read. I was like, I need it. I need it right now. And by the way, the shipping to Europe is almost the same price as the object and I still had to have it. If they can do that to me, there's a market.
The survey is called, or actually, well, I don't know exactly the name of the survey, but the important part of it is called Nostalgia Tends to Peak at a Single Age. And nostalgia, in this case, you can see, I guess you'll see this in the video version, In the study, they asked people when was the most moral society? When were the happiest families? When was the best music?
run paid ads i know you're a big paid ads guy i love paid ads yeah you love paid you love paid ads as much as you love halo i shot like 30 new ads today i saw some guy on twitter say that meta ads uh i can't remember who it was i should remember this stuff uh to get them a shout out Actually, he did a great job. Maybe I should give him a shout out. So you bring him on your pod.
He is like this ads expert. And he was talking about the idea that like a lot of people who are running paid ads just don't run actually enough ads. And so the algorithm can't really tell which things are working. You know, as in the more ads you have, the more likely you are to find the winners. And then you can kind of double down on those winners. but it takes a while to find the winners.
I'm not going to go fully into that now, but I can find it. It was really good. I recorded loads of ads. Back to nostalgia. Dude, you know what? People are going to get nostalgic. When the people who are 15 years old watching the ads with me and them right now, in 15 years, I am going to be nostalgic to them.
Yeah.
It's fully bedtime. My eight sleep is like pissed off right now that I'm not, that my eight sleep is going to be angry that I did this podcast so late, but I just had the urge to tell you about this graph.
Is that relating to the eight sleep kind of bursting and soaking the whole bed or?
Is this relating to like, if I hadn't told you the idea, the idea would have changed tomorrow? Or is this related to something nostalgia related?
That's true. River moves on.
I think I just kind of, I just don't, why are you saying this quote? Yeah. because i don't know man i don't know but we gotta leave this in i like leave this in i guys i don't know why greg said that but later when i'm watching back i'll be like oh yeah like how didn't i get that like i don't know why you said that quote yeah i just i just wanted to confuse you
I could pretend that I'd... Oh, yeah. You're right. Yes. Twice. Yes. River. I understand. Yes.
That is a great... It is actually... It is a great quote for something, I suppose. Yeah.
When was the best fashion? When was the best economy? When was the best television? When was the best cuisine? And it asked people to sort of rate when these things were the best according to them. And it asked people from a broad range of ages. A lot of people came to the same kind of
I do think that content would be the easiest way to start. And that content would probably be, you know, let's say Metal Gear Solid is probably one of those things that a lot of people in my generation were like obsessed with. I remember like everyone looking at every detail of the trailer for MGS2 was one of these just obsessive things.
And so what I would probably do is realistically start a YouTube channel. And I would maybe do a series on one specific game. And that series would be like breaking down what made it so special. I would try to recapture the excitement of looking at the trailers and it would be almost like a little kind of low-end documentary about maybe something like Metal Gear Solid, for example.
I would try to get an audience. Basically, I would try to get as much of an audience as possible.
and honestly if i'm thinking about a high-end product just in something that i would know how to create i would probably create a coffee table book uh something like we talked about the um last week this guy who does the video game magazine um what's it called a something waste of time i actually have it literally right behind me uh what was it called a ap oh dude i don't know
it was in the podcast i know i know exactly i can picture the website i don't know what it's yeah he's really leaning into this like he he's interviewing video game developers who worked on games from like you know 10 to dude you know uh one of the biggest reveals this week in the playstation event i'm obsessed with the video game industry by the way uh one of the biggest reveals this week in the playstation event uh one of the biggest showcases was silent hill 2.
And so that would be an example. That's getting remade. Like, if you played a game that really stuck with you, that you became obsessed with, that you got really into... making content about that product and I wouldn't even sell it.
The high-end product probably would be a coffee table book about either one game or it's about a couple of games that came out for maybe there's a special coffee table book just for the PS1 or just for the PS2 or just for Halo. That would be probably my angle. What would yours be? Oh, I got one more. I got one more. Controllers.
Like refurbishing controllers like PlayStation 1 controllers or Xbox controllers. Like just making them, I don't know, making them into like some sort of object that you can have in the house. Maybe it's just the faceplate of the controller. I don't know. Something with that, you know?
or a lot of people's answers lined up with that basically the best stuff, the best movies, the best everything happens, happened sometimes between sometime between when people are like 10 years old and 20 years old. So nostalgia peaks somewhere in between 10 and 20. I think they did they like bring it down to 14.5.
Wow.
So you would also sort of do a content-first approach? Yes. Content-first and then just see what sort of things... I think also even something as basic, if you go to the Kojima website, Hideo Kojima has his own company now. He's the guy who made Metal Gear Solid. And I actually buy the shit on that website. I have his hat from the Death Stranding video game.
I buy little keychains, all that kind of stuff. But you know what I think would work best? I love the high-end idea, the high-end product idea. I would just advertise other people's high-end nostalgic products.
on my super long form three hour episode per week conversation between me and you talking about reminiscing about our gaming time during like the you know late 90s and early 2000s honestly yeah yeah and you know the name of the show would be called the good old days the good old
I remember the good old days. I remember it. There's actually a podcast that if you guys want to check out an example of like, it's not exactly what we're talking about, but there's an element of it because it's more about the industry. It's called Game Boys to Men by Jeff Gerstmann. I don't know if you can get it for free. I pay for access to it.
And it's like this guy and his friend reminiscing about the games industry in the 90s. But I think there's a Game Boys to Men for millennials talking about Halo, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid. Guys, if you're listening to Greg's podcast right now, let me see if this does something to you. Da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da-da-da. You've lost your entire audience.
You don't know... If you're listening to this and you heard what I just did, put it in the comments. We got to tell Greg what he's listening to.
You don't know that one?
Okay, let's see if you know this Nintendo one.
So like basically somewhere between the age of 14 and 15 is where like your nostalgia absolutely peaked. What do you think about that one, Greg? Yeah.
Dude, this is fucking so fucking cool.
Dude, you know what's so weird? Remember earlier, I haven't seen this before, but remember earlier when I said I would take the faceplate off the controller? And I didn't explain what I would, I was imagining putting it on some type of frame. But this is way cool. I wasn't thinking about this exploded view.
But honestly, looking at the Xbox original Duke controller version of this gives me that feeling of nostalgia. Yeah. Oh my God, this is so cool. Do you see the SNES one?
The fucking Game Boy. I really, really love this. I love this. Do you know the people who did this?
This is so cool.
Oh, I actually need to get this purple Game Boy color with Pikachu on it for myself.
Oh, no.
I already spent a lot of money on a Game Boy nostalgic thing today. Totally. Yeah, but dude, this is... Okay, I mean, you obviously found the best example. This is amazing. That's exactly what I'm talking about. On the product level... So now that I've seen this... I would make a YouTube channel about Halo, about that era.
So I think it's probably best to choose your... When you said niche down, if I was thinking about this and I was spending a bit more time on it, I would probably choose a platform first and that would be my first channel. So I would choose the original Xbox just because I have somehow shit tons of nostalgia for that, even though I had the N64, I had the Dreamcast and I had the Xbox.
I think the original Xbox was the most influential console to me because of Halo. And that would be the channel I would create. I would focus on the Halo games. I'd focus on a lot of the other... I mean, there wasn't so many other amazing games that came out outside of Halo that I really loved on the Xbox. But yeah, I would focus in on that. I talk about that a lot.
And I would be an affiliate of this. I would be affiliate of Grid. What do they call it? Grid Studio.
Have you seen Displate? D-I-S-P-L-A-T-E?
So it's kind of similar. I mean, no, it's not similar to that, but it would be another one of the affiliates for our new podcast. And actually, interestingly enough, coincidentally, Halo is right up front when you land on their display.com landing page. I mean, I don't know how much money they're making, but a lot of influencers talk about them. It's kind of cool. Interesting.
Man, this is like... I want to shut down my business and just work on this now.
I had it.
Yeah, but the hosts aren't supposed to do it. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, but honestly, dude, listen, we're not going to do it because we don't have time because you're running a lot of businesses. I'm running one. I'm going to give someone the exact idea. This will make minimum $1 million per year. If you liked that era of video games and if you have a friend to talk about it,
Or even if you don't, so if you don't use Jeff Gerstmann as an influence, so go to YouTube, search for Jeff Gerstmann. He does a one-man show every week. It's three hours long. and you talk about nostalgic, but not, the thing is, people, when they talk about nostalgic games, they go too far back. They're talking about like the original SNES. I'm talking about nostalgic for the millennials.
I honestly, I don't know if that exists yet. There's low, retro is always SNES. It's always, you know, original Sega Mega Drive. I'm talking about retro for us is Halo. It's Metal Gear Solid. It's Silent Hill 2. It's Resident Evil. Resident Evil. And it's Syphon Filter, all of this shit.
So if you can become the content creator for the new millennial retro, you're going to make yourself a millionaire. And you're not trying to make content that's super educational. It's comfort noise. You're making comforting episodes that last three hours long. You're just chatting about shit. Listen to Jeff Gerstmann. He's a perfect example of it. It's just three hours of chatting.
And he opens energy drinks and talks about them. There's just something deeply satisfying about listening to his podcast. And I think this needs to exist for the millennial retro, whatever the fuck that's called.
They're some of the best memories of my entire life. And if I'm thinking, okay, so that's a memory that I had that I really deeply loved. But what could be something you could do? Okay, it's a comforting memory. Maybe I could start a Twitch channel where I just run LAN parties with eight other people in a physical space. And you're not trying to make content that's like super educational.
It's a whole media empire run by me. Even though I'm not going to do it.
I know. I have so much, dude. I have so much stuff. I don't use it.
This thing is great, though. Look how cute this is.
I love the colored buttons. Never going to use it, though. So yeah, that's it. That's all I came here to say. I appreciate you having the time.
Yeah.
This is personal. I don't know if this is the best episode to do. I mean, this episode's definitely the right... If you don't like this episode, you won't like the vibe. So yeah, you got to tell us if you like the vibe and if you recognize what I was humming as well earlier.
See you, Greg. Bye. Bye.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, it could be a little bit of both, but it's probably more of the nostalgia element of it, I guess.
Although it is pretty good.
Yeah. So I think I have an idea of how to land this, although it might not work. So the reason this came back to my mind earlier and the reason why I messaged you is because today I bought a very cool thing because it launched today and it's something called a Mod Retro. which is Palmer Luckey's new physical product. Palmer Luckey is the guy who invented the Oculus Rift.
And he also runs Endural, which is like a defense contractor right now. And he's also really into video games. He used to be like a Game Boy modder. And he created this mod retro, which is like a ridiculously detailed and loving recreation of the Game Boy Color. I guess it's the Game Boy Color. I just bought the orange one if you're wondering which color I went for.
And I looked at this page and I was immediately like, I need to get this. This is something I have to get. Now, I had a Game Boy Color. I think I was, I don't know actually exactly what age I was. But when I saw this and I knew I had to buy it, I started thinking back to this study. And I was like, I actually have a weird thing about buying nostalgic things in general.
There are things where when I see a YouTube video of it or when I see like a, for example, I just got a Game Boy DS because I remembered having it as a teenager and I was excited about it. And it's not really that I end up playing these things or even using them, but just having them gives me sort of like a comforting feeling. I can't really exactly describe it.
And I started to look around and realize that so many of the things that I buy and so many of the things that I do, I'm looking to the other side of my apartment here and I can see a lot of Radiohead vinyls and they're all of the albums that I was listening to on repeat when I was 15.
um i was listening to kid a like on repeat over and over and over um but also like the teenage engineering products that i love and i obsess about and this is also a teenage engineering object it's just like hyper nostalgic hyper nostalgic designs um and i was thinking right okay startup ideas we're always looking for ideas we're always looking for new angles
What if you look at people like, okay, we're millennials. We look back to the things that were popular and exciting when we were 14.5. Hey, everyone.
It's comfort noise. You're making comforting episodes that last three hours long. You're just chatting about shit. So if you can become the content creator for the new millennial retro, you're going to make yourself a millionaire.
And you try to milk the nostalgia out of those things to create new products. And I'll give you an example of like a business that I think you could make relatively good money out of. And I want to go like hyper over the top specific here. One business could literally be looking at something. I was obsessed with the video game Halo back when I was like, I don't know, like 13, 12, 13, 14 years.
And I used to do LAN parties a lot back then. This is where, for any millennials listening, you'll know what this is. You literally would like connect your Xboxes with a cable. We would all sit around in my house in Ireland and destroy the place. But it was like, they're some of the best memories of my entire life.
And if I'm thinking, OK, so that's a memory that I had that I really deeply loved, but I don't see anyone massively taking advantage of, you know, exploiting that memory. But what could be something you could do? OK, it's a comforting memory. Maybe I could start a Twitch channel where I just run, you know, once a week or even, you know, once every day if you want to go hardcore.
I run LAN parties with like, you know, eight other people in a physical space, Halo, maybe Halo 2 as well to add in the, you know, dual wielding for any of the people who know you could hold two guns at the same time. It's pretty cool.
And honestly, just I honestly think just streaming something like this and then turning that into other types of content, maybe a weekly podcast talking about Halo and Halo 2. I don't know how much money you could make out of it. But if you look at something like the kind of funny games cast, which is a daily gaming podcast, more focused on the news side of things.
I think you could make a fair amount of money doing advertising in a piece of media like that, at least for a while. And then you add in the next thing. Another thing I think you could do, which would be pretty fun, is you could create... And I was listening to My First Million today, and they were talking about these speciality print magazines that
And I was thinking like, I was one of the very few people who had a Dreamcast video game console. And there was like four of us in the world. But you could definitely create something really high end for us four people. Maybe like a ridiculously nice coffee table book for all of the nostalgic video games and all of the elements of the Dreamcast that would just get someone like me drooling.
um and yeah i don't know man there's just something to this idea of looking at what was hot what was exciting what made you feel super cozy and it is a comfort thing it's not about making like an amazing new creative thing it's like how do you bring back that sense of comfort uh to the millennials who just crave that sense of like oh man that was such a that was such a cool thing that was such an amazing time you know what i mean am i getting this point across at all
Wait, what kind of console boy were you when you were like 14, 15?
Oh, the Cyber Games.
It's funny because I was thinking, okay, first I was thinking, yeah, but that's just a fucking creepy internet cafe. But that's the thing. Internet cafes are now really creepy and weird because like who goes into them? You know, I don't exactly know. Creepy people.
creepy people but um if you were to have a place for millennia like professional millennials to go where they could do multiplayer games that basically also the other thing is like once you turn like 20 you kind of stop gaming in the way you used to when you were in a t you're a And also you cannot compete against people playing Counter-Strike now. Like I'm 36.
If I try to play any online multiplayer game, including the new Halo Infinite, I can last like three seconds. But if I could go to a place, I honestly, I'm always thinking about like, what are some alternative ideas to bars where you go drinking? And you know what, dude? Fuck. I also, and I've been talking to my girlfriend about this a lot. I hate going to dinner parties.
I hate going to bars and just sitting around in a circle and talking to people. It's so intense. And what I used to do when I was a teenager is we would play games together. We wouldn't sit all facing each other. We had something to do while we were kind of chatting and shooting the shit.
And I think one of the things that I really miss and I'm trying to bring it back into my like social life is just doing stuff when you're hanging out with your friends instead of just sitting around drinking, smoking, whatever it is. I feel like having a central activity. And if we could, if we could have a Soho house with LAN party combo, dude, I would be so in, I would be so in.
That's me. That's me.
And it's kind of, if you think about it, a lot of the most famous entrepreneurs like, okay, Palmer Luckey, also Elon, also just a lot of people who are in startups are kind of nerds. Maybe that's also a great way to just meet other very interesting entrepreneurs. In a way, again, I cannot stress enough how much I don't like sitting at a table and facing people and having to interact with them.
The only way I can do that and find it interesting is when we're drinking. When you're out at a bar and you're all sitting around a table, it's just kind of intense if you're stuck next to someone and you kind of have to talk or else you're going to be weird. But if you have something to do, I mean, I'm a nerd. I find it awkward, I think, to just sit directly across from someone and talk to them.
Speaking into a metal rectangle.
But if you have something to do, I think you can have some pretty interesting conversations. Halo, GoldenEye, all that kind of shit. There's something to it. I know that people have tried to open arcade bars, but I'm not talking about arcades. That's not the vibe. I'm talking about Halo. Yeah.
I'm talking about also standing sometimes.
And I think what this and Stardew Valley have in common, what the two people who worked on these have in common, is that this is absolutely a labor of love where you never know if this is actually going to turn into a viable way of making money. But it's almost like an obsession that these people go down and actually start working on these things.
So my personal second but our third Tiny Team Award is going to the A Profound Waste of Time video game magazine. And how they do each episode, by the way, how they fund each issue, is by doing a Kickstarter for every issue. So that's also kind of cool. So they don't just bring out an issue. Every single issue gets funded through Kickstarter, which is kind of cool.
It's like a company where you've maybe used their product or you've maybe seen their product around, but you didn't really know that it was just a tiny little team behind it. So it's a tiny team doing something big and special that you may or may not know about. They're like flying under the radar, that kind of thing, you know?
Yeah, you can see on the Kickstarter pages how much each edition makes. So there's some transparency around that. But a lot of the all of the past issues that I bought were not through Kickstarter. So those wouldn't be included. So I guess you could check the Kickstarter pages. Like, for example, there was 100. If we look here to issue four or issue. Yeah, I don't know. Actually, OK.
It's so cool.
They're interviewing like the members of the Portal 2 team, the creator of Silent Hill. Come on. Come on.
This is shoo-in. Yeah. It's too much. I have them all around my apartment. I bought every, or my girlfriend got them to me as a gift, but they are so unbelievably beautiful. I love them so much.
Yeah, exactly. I'm like, shit, I'm waiting for you to run out of ideas and run out of one so that I don't have to have another one. You know what I mean?
Oh, man. Yeah.
No, I'm looking it up right now.
Yes. Yes, exactly. You think they're going to be bigger than they are, but then it turns out, you think it's like a hundred people, but then it turns out to be two people.
That's what I'm thinking about. It's interesting. Probably you see this with your audience. I definitely see it with my tiny audience, is that if I would post something like this, you'd have one or two idiots in the comments being like, oh, so pointless. We don't need another one of these things.
And the point that you should be, when you see something like this, something like card, what I am thinking is, what the hell? How can you make something like this differentiated when there's a million different like one page, I don't know, there's a million different ways to make websites also for a very low price.
So I'm like, my gut reaction is to be like, why would you need another one of these? But actually the correct way to think about this is how is this actually working? And this is, I'm super curious about this because it absolutely does not appeal to me at all on first glance. But like, why do you think this works?
But why? How did that happen? Was it an accident or was it cultivated?
In the best way possible, when I'm looking at these card pages, it reminds me of GeoCities. Was it called GeoCities or GeoCities? It reminds me of that sort of retro... If you look at... We talk a lot about anti-trends. It's like the anti-trend of Squarespace. Squarespace is all about high quality. Everything's aligned perfectly. The templates are beautiful. Whereas this has this more...
Yeah. And it's super cool as well because they're often like family-owned businesses or like it's a couple or it's like a brother and sister or it's like two high school friends. And I just think that's like a nice heartwarming kind of story as well.
rugged, homemade GeoCities vibe. I wonder if that sort of retro energy is what also makes it work so well.
Zero.
Well, it says on the landing page that it's a simple, free, fully responsive one-page site.
That's pretty, very affordable.
It's less than $2 a month. $19, that's like one coffee, you know?
$19, that's like an espresso, you know?
That's like a water, isn't it?
But $19 is like the price. It's only the price of like a small glass of water.
Yeah. You know, I think what we should do, you know, people don't watch every podcast. I think what we should cultivate on this podcast is a sense of being really out of touch with the rest of society. And when we see something like, oh, the Apple Vision Pro is only $3,800, like price of a coffee. Yeah.
Yeah. Dude, it's like coffee. What does it cost approximately? I mean, I'm sure it's within the ballpark of $3,800, right? Right.
Just lovers. Yeah. It could just be just lovers, you know? That's it. We just keep it like that.
It is your audience. Does your audience think we're both fully wearing a tuxedo or do you want... Where do they think it ends?
I don't know. We just have to think about it. You're going to have to guess in the comments. You have to guess in the comments.
Yeah. Can you see this ghostly shit happening behind me?
I hope your editor does one of those crash zooms whenever that happens. Stuff's just moving around in the background. Wow. That's scary. Okay. You just give your tiny business award.
To card.
I love that. I have another one. All right, we'll go, we'll do another one. I'll do one last one, okay? I'll do one last one. So I think there's an area we haven't gone into yet and it's Patreon businesses, like really small Patreon businesses. And I want to give an award to... A Patreon business.
And again, like maybe this person wouldn't like it to be called a Patreon business because it's he's a really amazing artist. But I want to give an award to Bobby Fingers. If you go to YouTube and search Bobby Fingers, my favorite video, the best video I've ever seen on the internet is called Jeff Bezos Rowing Boat.
All right. So... The first Tiny Team Award for the Startup Ideas Podcast 2024 goes to King Flipchart.
If you watch this whole thing and don't think it's the best YouTube video you've ever seen, something's horribly wrong with you and you're a bad person. So Bobby Fingers has a Patreon account. And what I love about his Patreon and what he does in particular is that he's not like a person who's constantly putting out different... He's not constantly pumping out content.
He puts out like one video every couple of months. You have no indication of when it's about to come out. And then this video... is literally him making a diorama. Do you know what a diorama is?
So it's, it's kind of hard. It's like a, it's like something happens in real life. So for example, um, uh, what's the guy's name in his most recent one, Fabio. So there's this, I think singer called Fabio and he was on a
or got hit in the face by a bird whichever way you say that around and there's like footage of that there's footage of him coming down from the roller coaster with a bloody nose and he's really pissed off and this guy Bobby Fingers he makes like a little model of that moment like a moment in time but like a physical model like a sculpture of the moment and
And his videos are like the making of these little sculptures, or in the case of the Jeff Bezos thing, he makes a boat, which is Jeff Bezos's face, but a massive working boat. And literally the strangest, most kind of confusing videos I've seen on the internet, the most like painstaking work, like we're looking, you're talking about a 30 minute video of
of the making of this goose, this diorama of a goose hitting this guy in the face. And just like the journeys he goes on while he's making this diorama and the weird things that he's saying while he's creating it. And... This is like, for me, a business that could have never existed outside of Patreon existing.
And I think Patreon really allows for single person teams or one or two person teams to monetize just their weirdness. And I love that. And I think it's super cool. I don't know how big... Bobby Fingers team is. I cannot imagine it's more than 10 people, but he gets another tiny team award from me in the content category. Let's add in categories now. Wow. You went there.
i can't believe you went there yeah content art category wow yeah yeah exactly yeah very very niche so bobby fingers honestly guys if you only get one thing from this uh from from this episode please and also something weird is happening i know this is not really interesting for the episode but i pay for his um patreon but like i can't use it. I don't know what's happening here.
So something's... Patreon, if you're listening to this, tell me what's up with that issue there. By the way, another example who I'm not going to give the tiny team award for, but one of the runners up. Have you seen Van Neistat's channel?
Good, good, good, good. Okay, so King flip chart. If you go to any Alex Hermosi video, if you've ever seen videos of Tony Robbins on stage, if you've ever seen basically any public speaker using a flip chart on a stage, This flip chart, if you look closer, has a little stamp on the bottom right-hand side, and it says King.
I love that. I love it.
I love that people now can take their weird little hobbies and if they're just consistent enough and just focused enough and willing to sort of push through this initial phase where just no one knows you, you can literally replace your job by showing a 30-minute video of you making a boat that's in the shape of Jeff Bezos' face and you never have to work for someone else again. So good.
How cool is that?
What'd you say?
Yeah, you could quit whatever. I mean, you don't really have a job. You're kind of like creating your own jobs. But like if we just did this award ceremony every week and it's like $10 a week to listen to. I'm just kidding. That wouldn't be good.
Yes, yes. Imagine how little money we would make and how annoyed we would be.
that posted you know that we just you know even so here it is here you go yeah i think it would be uh if if you guys do this um please let me know if you get responses i think this could make some people's day or maybe they don't give a shit maybe they're like who are you losers how are you how dare you call
And there's no air conditioning in Germany. Like in most German, I'm in a new building, like a new apartment. And there's still no air conditioning being built into apartments. And like, I'm just sludge.
Greg, we need to do an episode. This is a preview for what I think we should do as an episode in the future. Europe versus the US when it comes to entrepreneurship.
Biggest episode ever.
Yes. I have a lot to say about that topic. And have you had Peter Levels on this podcast yet?
We got to get him. We got it. OK, we're going to do here. Here's live canvas strategy. You and me are going to do an episode on Europe versus the US entrepreneurship. We're going to talk about Peter Levels, European accelerationism, which is one of his his new kind of movement and his merch. And Peter will just have to He'll just have to come on, you know?
Come on, Peter. Yeah.
Bye. Bye.
And this is because they are using a company called King Flipchart, which literally is two people doing one thing, and that is they make the world's biggest flip chart.
It's literally like a stand with really big pieces of paper on it that you can write on and then just turn them over to the next piece of paper. A flip chart.
Honestly, I don't know. And I've reached out to them to see if there's any way I can like, get that answer. I don't know the answer to that question. But the flip charts are very expensive. And literally every single person in the personal development space is using them.
Look at any Alex Hermosi video where he's like every second Alex Hermosi video, he's standing in front of two of these flip charts. And the paper refills, which are specific to these flip charts, cost $100 for one paper refill. And we're a tiny company, like my company is very small, and we're using like four to five of these paper refills per month.
So anybody who buys one of these flip charts is using that paper and essentially paying a monthly subscription to keep doing their events and using these flip charts. And they do pens.
Yeah, it's expensive because it's like completely custom made. And the weird thing about it is, so I started seeing this flip chart on stage and the exact same thing happened to me. I was like, oh man, I need a flip chart that size. And so I started looking for a large flip chart. And eventually I was looking at all these different flip chart companies.
And most companies are not standalone flip chart companies. They do all sorts of other things. And eventually I went back to the video that I was watching. And again, I think it was Alex Hermosi or Russell Brunson or someone like that. And I zoomed in and I was like, King, what is King? And I figured out it's a two person company.
working out of italy and it's a sales and marketing expert uh and a like a furniture designer i think uh working together they're i believe a couple and they are the people who personally respond to you when you message them on the website so we had like an emergency two weeks ago because we were running an event at our office and we ran out of the flip chart paper And they're like, no problem.
We like expedite it to you. And it's just so nice to have this as like the most personalized experience ever. And I just love, I love the simplicity of it. It's like we make a flip chart. What else do you do? Nothing.
Absolutely. And that's exactly what I do as well. Like for me, once you buy one King flip chart, first of all, you're locked into the ecosystem, right? You can't find, you'd have to custom design or have a company custom design that paper size for you because it's humongous. But the other thing is I just want to keep supporting them. They're so nice.
It's just such a humble... Tiziana is the person who we talk to when we need new stuff. And honestly, one of my biggest challenges right now coming up in the summer is when I'm traveling around... And I don't have my king because I don't want to bring it onto the plane. What I'm going to have to do is literally buy a new one and have it shipped to the location that I go to.
And so I'm like super locked into the king universe. And they're just such a tiny company. I just love it. They deserve this tiny team award, which we need to make a little logo for so they can put it on their site.
And we're wearing tuxedos here.
Greg, we are wearing suits today because we are introducing a new award for the industry. The entrepreneurial small business, business bootstrap industry.
King flip chart. So it's just what I love about it is they've so you can buy flip charts from anywhere, right? You can go just Google flip charts, and I'm sure there's a million of them on Amazon. But they've locked themselves into this world of like direct response marketing and personal development.
where they basically now, and all of the testimonials on their website, and I'm sure way more people have thing flip charts, but they are focusing on the people in the personal development space. And it just keeps, it keep, yeah, it's like a niche within a niche because it's not just that it's, we're just doing flip charts.
It's we're just doing flip charts for the personal development on stage space, right? which is just so cool. It's a flip chart that's big enough to be on stage. That's what I think is so unbelievably specific and niche about it. And it does make me think like, what are like the normal stationary style things where you think that 3M has already cornered the market?
So 3M is the company that makes Post-it and all of these other things. And I actually have one of the 3M flip charts here. It's hidden in the background here. But this thing is like pretty expensive as well. But King flip chart came along and was like, what if it's the biggest though? You know?
All right. I'll lift it up again.
That award is... The Tiny Team Award.
I know about the story of Stardew Valley and I have it on here and have way too many hours on it.
It's the flip chart family again. It's the son of the flip chart.
Yes.
It's an award we're going to give out maybe once per month, maybe once per quarter. Who knows?
Maybe once per lifetime. So like zero consistency at all. Listen, audience, don't expect any consistency here. It's an award we're going to give out to a company that has a team of less than 10 people, but that is very special.
Very, very good one. Very, very good one. Okay. So, you know, before the episode, we didn't discuss how many awards we're giving out, uh, So I'm going to give out another award right now. Another Tiny Team Award. Staying in the video game space, I don't know if you've heard of the magazine called A Profound Waste of Time. Have you heard of it?
Ah, ah, I'm very happy to hear that. So in the video game space, there is a magazine called A Profound Waste of Time. The guy who does it is a guy called Caspian Whistler. And Caspian Whistler is the person who not only is like putting together this entire magazine and finding all the artists and figuring out how to get all the interviews in there.
He's also the person who personally is messaging you when your magazine is stuck in delivery and was personally messaging my girlfriend back and forth over Christmas when she was trying to get me the three issues of the magazine. Super high quality, really amazing interviews from really crazy video game developers in there. Really like high-end video game developers.
Like, for example, the developers who created Ico and Shadow of the Colossus. Really... I don't know if you can see, if you go to the website, apwot.com. Like, it's just... ludicrously high quality for one person to go in and actually take on a project of this size. It's ridiculously ambitious as well, similar to Stardew Valley, the amount of effort that goes into a project like this.
How the hell do you get in touch with literally everyone on the planet? Like, how do you do networking?
Not to say that I helped with his YouTube channel at all. But just reaching out and being like, hey, I am in Austin. What are you up to? Sends me his number, invites me to his house. These types of things are so... There's a lot of nuance to it that you did there. You didn't just reach out and say, hey, can I hang with you? You said, I'm already going to be in these areas.
And that's a weirdly important thing. The other thing... You and I were speaking to the same person last week, Blake, who actually is my mentor because I pay him to be my mentor. And you somehow were already talking to him. But we were talking about this topic in the mastermind last week.
And he said, one of the weirdest things with people who are very successful and very powerful is they give out their number so easily. And giving your number and just being like, hey, here's my number, like whatever. That is also something that a lot of people don't do, but it's actually super powerful.
And in the background here is someone that I've been messaging with who I never thought I would have the number of. Once you cross that boundary, once you deliver value or a compliment, or in your case, it's content, or it's like figuring out what they want and what they can resonate with. And then combine that with that with or without you energy.
It's not like me not meeting you is going to hold me back or anything. And then a little number on top. Those things seem to be some juicy elements of connecting with people who could be your mentors or not even mentors. Sometimes it's just people who can connect to you or people who you just really would love to meet.
And, and people are lazy about it, dude. People are so lazy. People reach out. I'm sure people reach out to you every day and they say, Hey, can we grab a coffee? Like, You're not trying to be mean. I guess you feel like, how do I even respond to that? It even feels sometimes a little bit insulting if you're a busy person. You're a busy person, Greg.
And if someone just says, hey, can we grab a coffee? And you're like, who are you?
Yeah. Greg, I have a topic for you. I have a question for you. And this is something I actually genuinely have been wondering. And there's probably a couple of different angles we can take on this. But I think one thing that one of the most valuable things I think your audience would love to know is how the hell do you get in touch with literally everyone on the planet?
Dude, you really hold back. You keep your story. You really hold stuff back. I can't believe that this is... I thought the end of the story was going to be you messaged him. The whole thing actually happened.
I didn't want to go anywhere.
I think that another thing here, I'm just trying to break apart the kind of principles here. You also, I sometimes draw this for people when I'm showing them the canvas strategy. If you're watching this, if you're not seeing this, it's basically a circle. This is where you are. You're on, you're at this part of your life. The Weezer guy is here and then here, all of his connections, right?
And you like want to move up this ladder or whatever it is. But a lot of people are not humble enough to also realize that they are below somebody. And I think for me, one of the things and because it sounds weird to say it, it's like, I am below this person. It doesn't mean you're below them as a human. It just means that maybe they're ahead of you in certain parts of your life.
And I think it's very difficult for people to be humble enough to assess where they are. And often in your case, what would have happened is you would have gone, if you were not humble and you didn't understand the laws of power, you would have gone there and talked about yourself for two hours.
But you understood that the dynamic stays in place, essentially, and that you still have to deliver value. And this is something that once you understand it, once you understand that there is this like dynamic in the world, you can really, really connect with a lot of very interesting people. I think.
getting too comfy with people, getting too cozy with people after you meet them the first time is often a way or getting too familiar and overstepping boundaries. That's like next level ninja shit to not do that when you actually get in the door.
Like everybody I know, every investor, every entrepreneur, every company owner that I end up working with already knows you before I meet them. How do you do networking? Like... I don't understand it. You're everywhere. You're everywhere all the time. How does it work?
I think as well, it's just another example is we're doing this podcast right now, which is going to give me extra exposure. We're doing it because I thought for a long time about how to bring value to you and your content universe. And I was reading your tweets and I was looking at your show and then I was looking at other people's shows and I was like,
I wonder if there's a way that I can just take some of the heavy lifting of maybe like an extra episode so that Greg can still grow his podcast. He can do his own advertising on the podcast. I can be in the background and I can still bring value while getting connection to you, learning a lot of stuff, but also getting connection to your audience.
I was joking about this earlier with my girlfriend. I was like, if I didn't understand this world, then if you think about how stupid it can be, right after this episode, I'm like, hey, dude, I'm just going to send you over an invoice for the work I put in for this.
just like this super short-term thinking when people play these games you know it's like oh hey actually now you have to pay me to do this totally even though i am getting a massive advantage because i have no audience that's also a thing if people are wondering like how do you grow an audience nobody listens to my podcast great like two weeks ago nobody was listening to my podcast i went on greg's podcast and now more a lot more people are listening to my podcast
but i also had to think about how to bring value to greg's life um instead of just being like hey dude you put me on my podcast there's a level of like you you just you have to have some level of understanding your position in the hierarchy of whatever it is you're trying to do um and that's very tricky for people their entitlement comes on very fast when people like Often someone will meet me.
They'll like put in some effort and then they're like super entitled immediately. Why didn't you hire me? Like what? What are you talking about? You know what I mean? Do you know what I mean?
I put on 1.5 X. People listen to this podcast.
Yeah. Your entire reputation.
And I also don't know if you noticed this, but when you asked me at the end of the podcast where people can find me, because we talked about your newsletter and all of that stuff, I actually didn't tell where people can find me. I asked people to go and write reviews for your podcast and your Spotify, and I didn't tell people where to find me at all.
And that's like, in my opinion, part of being valuable is also not just... fully taking advantage. You don't have to like squeeze every situation dry. You can just see where things go and enjoy them. Like I think there is something to that as well. I don't need anything to come out of this. It's an enjoyable experience.
By the way, side note, in the comments of the last YouTube video, people said something about us not looking at this, like looking everywhere. And now I'm recording in a camera that's over here. Like it couldn't be. I'm like, hey, how's it going, guys?
And we're not professionals, okay? You need it more extreme. You need to make it more extreme so that it's clear. You need to put the camera behind your head.
Oh my God. We got to end it right there. Do you think people are going to be able to take actionable... Okay, I want to leave you with one thing. So if somebody today... Let's just pick Noah Kagan as an example. Somebody wanted to connect with Noah Kagan today, and they'd love to do it within the next three months, but they do not have... We haven't even talked about the idea of doing free work.
We're not going to go into that today, but they don't have content out there. They don't have a social media platform. But they would love to work with someone like Noah Kagan, Kevin Rose, whatever, someone who's like influential. What would be some actionable steps they could take over the space of two weeks?
And could that just be retweeting other people's stuff if you're not like...
It should be the person's own opinion.
And actually, just if you guys are listening to this and you're like, oh, easy for you guys to say because there's so much activity. I have been tweeting only for the last maybe three weeks and I get like one like per tweet. Like I am an example of the opposite of Greg where I don't really have a social media presence.
And reaching out to people on Twitter has been so powerful in the last few weeks. I'm shocked that I have just not been doing it. So you're definitely, you don't have to be like, it doesn't have to look like people like your stuff for this to work. But I guess it does, it helps if you have a picture and stuff going on.
From Jicecream?
Someone here, I remember one time somebody met me and they thought it was something even worse. So wait, is my username Jicecream? I thought that's just my handle. Isn't my name Jonathan Courtney on Twitter?
You looking at my... Wait, so why would it be offensive? Jice cream. Is Jice... Is that like something dirty?
It's true. I actually, so my name on Instagram is also J ice cream. It's, it's actually my Xbox gamer tag, which, you know, I wasn't ever thinking of becoming a business guy. And so this was my, like making my Xbox account when I was like 12 or something. Um, Yeah, I don't know if I can change it. I love it too much, J. Ice Cream.
The thing is, I'm trying to now become successful in spite of my name being J. Ice Cream. Okay, apart from that, is it okay to have posts which have not many likes?
Yes. Yes. That's what I've been trying to do. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. So that's step one is like, get yourself and would you start with one platform? Like, would you start with X?
Even though Twitter's dead, right? Because I heard two years ago that because Elon Musk took over, it's dead. So it doesn't exist anymore. Crazy that you're using it even though it's dead.
Yeah, I definitely get more responses from people on X than anywhere else.
Yes. Do you know the dream 100 concept? No. Okay, I'm not going to talk about it now, but if anyone wants to figure out how to... You can't just... Well, if you want... The Dream 100 concept is a... So you just said, like, choose 10 people who you'd want to meet and then set notifications for them.
There's this concept about growing a business where if you want to grow a business, one of the best ways to do it is by making a list of the 100 people who have access to the audience that you want.
and then in that so you have the list it's basically a google sheet you would create on the left would be the their name then you would have their all of their different social profiles uh and then you would have like you know the amount of people who are following them and then you have like a list of all the things that you think they want so if you're doing this by yourself dream 10 is probably better but you could create a google doc here
where you're also when you're watching all their content you're collecting almost an uh a an archive of the things that they're interested in so you're creating your own profile and i'm sure someone will use ai to do it but yeah the the concept of the dream 100 thing is that you have a way then to track all the people you're reaching out to and apparently
If you actually reach out to 100 people, then maybe 20, 30 of the people will respond to you. And this is one of the best ways to get in front of the audience that you actually want to get in front of because you can get on their content, etc.
But Dream 100 is something you can Google and watch videos about if you want to see a practical breakdown of even how to decide who you would want to reach out to. I just didn't want to take you off track.
Oh, no, I just didn't want to annoy your audience. And they're like, Jonathan keeps interrupting you.
No, dude, your YouTube comments are extremely kind and constructive, honestly.
Your YouTube comments are very, very constructive and I am responding to almost all of them.
Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So you would turn on the post notifications for the people that you would like to get in touch with. And every time they post, you essentially respond. Would you also say that like retweeting and then like quote posting? I don't even know what it's called, like quoting what they did. Would that count as a replying to what they do?
Because then you're spreading their message to other people, to my one follower.
Yeah, this, this definitely I've, I've been, I'm actually trying to get, um, I want this guy, a man who used to be the CEO. You probably know him. I should have just asked you. I want him to coach me a man, the ex CEO of, uh, AppSumo.
And, uh, I've been, I've, I'm in his like waiting list and I'm, I'm like replying to all of his, and I'm jokingly saying, yeah, it's because I want you to coach me earlier. And I'm definitely getting noticed. If you know him, tell him to coach me.
Yeah, call him up. I want to pay him. I want to pay him and I can't pay him because he won't let me coach him.
And you cannot be entitled. That's the worst because you also don't know. Like sometimes someone will reach out to me, right? Um, on YouTube or LinkedIn or whatever. I'm not on X so much or on Instagram or they'll email the company and they won't get a response from me just because I don't see it. And then like a couple of weeks later they'll send me like an angry message.
I'm like, are you fucking serious? This is the first, that's also now the first time I'm seeing an interaction with this person. You know what I mean? Like, that's the thing you gotta be, you gotta be really okay with silence.
You gotta, when I'm reaching out to, when I'm in LA and reaching out to people who are like way above me, if they ghost me, if they don't respond to me, uh, the best thing I've ever done is just not pushing and not being irritating. And then like the next time I'm there, sometimes I meet them and it's just that they were away.
Just don't, uh, I think that's very important to be very okay with silence and to be very okay with rejection and,
and not be entitled because they might change their mind a couple of years later if you're doing something more interesting i also think it's okay to follow up so for example i'm trying to do you know colin and samir do you know who that is of course yeah i know them personally no i don't not at all i do know of them but i don't know them personally at all are you trying to get on their show i know them personally
But just were you, they were there and you were like, oh, I'm going to be there anyway. As in you went out of your way to meet them.
Yeah, of course. But you, you with or without you'd them, you Bono'd them.
I have a little hack on maybe, maybe something different you could have done there. And you're better at this than me. So take this with a pinch of salt, Greg's audience. There's someone who I'm, so I'm running this mastermind. Don't worry, I'm not going to sell it on your podcast already sold out. I'm running this mastermind in LA and there's the speaker. I want to, I want him to speak at it.
I won't say his name on the podcast right now because I'm still working on it. um he agreed like he was like i'm in no problem let's do this um we agreed on everything and then uh he was like i just need to chat with my wife to to make sure that like the dates are good and i didn't get any response then for a little bit and so i followed up and i was like hey just uh
you know, confirming, are you still in? But I didn't get a response. And then so I spent I sent another email just saying, hey, just just checking in. And he said, oh, absolutely. Just I'm still in. I'm still excited. I just need to really make sure of my life. And then I was like, wait a minute.
This is an opportunity for me to make this easier for this guy, because clearly he's way like he's just got a different life to me. This person has way more going on. And also, I want him to speak at my event. I actually really need him to speak at my event. It would be amazing for him to speak at my event. And so I wrote him an email and his response to it was, I love that.
And we'll tell you about the email in the next step. No, I'm just kidding. The email I sent him was, OK, how about this? The event is happening anyway. And how about two weeks beforehand? I'll just reach out to you again and see if you want to come so you don't have to think about the scheduling. And he was like that was the thing he was super excited about.
A lot of the things that I noticed about people who are very important and who are kind of higher up in this hierarchy Dude, they have so... I mean, the amount of stuff you and I have going on. And I mean, I am like here in the business world. You're here in the business world. And maybe Colin and Samir are here. I don't know. Kevin Rose is like in space. These people have so much going on.
It's unimaginable. So if you can just make it so easy. And they often, I think, like spontaneous and impromptu ways of doing things. So I wonder two things that I would do if I was trying to get this guest. on my podcast. And I had a couple of these bigger guests on my podcast before and I had this challenge. One is
finding out without them even knowing who their assistant is and just going around them and trying to see if I can schedule it with them.
Uh, the other thing is literally just having a slot, like, but, but soon like a slot that's happening in the same day and reaching out to them in two weeks and being like, Hey, I actually have like a slot today, tomorrow, the next day in the next 72 hours, often I noticed that people like this
tend to like to do things sort of last minute because it doesn't have to add on to their really chaotic schedule. It's just, oh, I'll just put it in right now as it was today with you, right? We were chatting, we were messaging and I was like, how about like today? It just, it sometimes works out better when you do these things on a very short scale, I have found.
Yeah. Before people start reaching out to you, Greg, just to make sure you actually remember the things in the episode. If you just reach out to Greg and say, can I pick your brain? Nothing's going to happen. You know what I mean? That's not the point of this episode. Make sure you didn't listen to it on 10x speed.
There's probably some bits in here that would help you get in touch with someone like Greg. But yeah, dude, that's it. I hope that's valuable for your audience.
There's a great meme that maybe your team can pull up. I posted it on my, I don't know if I can share my screen right now, so I'll just kind of post it to you.
It's another experiment. It's not like a news topic. It's not like a tweet. It's like a general thing that I see you doing out in the world that I think some of your audience would find valuable.
Give me some likes. Give me some attention out there on Jicecream.
I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, if no one likes it, we're not doing it.
Yeah. The lesson is if no one likes it, don't do it.
Yeah, I think people should also know that this does not replace the core podcast. This is sort of like Greg's still going to interview people and give you that other stuff you like. This is more like a BTS, you know, behind the scenes of like, Greg has a crazy guest on his podcast. How does Greg contact these people?
That's kind of what I was thinking, you know, like in my mind, I was thinking in here.
I'm trying to like push my temples to show that it's my brain.
That's what I want to talk about. So can I pick your brain on a few different angles of this and try to be the voice of your audience here? Yes. Okay, first of all, most people, the first thing they say, as you already said, is, oh, easy for you to say because you have a big audience.
So now let's assume we're both talking about this from the perspective of people who started out doing this without audiences. And then the second thing is, okay, the people you're reaching out to are probably already very successful. Um, usually in the case that when we're reaching out to people, they're a lot more successful than us.
At least I know for me, when I reach out to people, they're more successful. Um, and so they don't need a lot of the things you can provide. How do you figure out how to deliver value to someone who's already, let's say 20 years ahead of you in the entrepreneurial journey, even if you don't have a large audience, for example, like what would be your, what was your process?
How do you figure out how to deliver value to someone who's already, let's say, 20 years ahead of you in the entrepreneurial journey?
I didn't know this was public, oh God.
Yeah, let's give some examples. I'll give one from a perspective of someone who had actually literally no following. Back in 2016, I was reading, so I'm running a design agency. And I was reading a blog from GV, Google Ventures. They had this blog and it was about, they were talking about this thing called design sprints. This guy called Jake Knapp, who was blogging about it.
He was kind of like this person who I was like, oh my God, this is like the Silicon Valley designer that I would love to meet, who like is doing all the things I would love to do and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Eventually he wrote this book called Sprint, became a New York Times bestseller. And I was still like, oh, my God, this is this is amazing. Like I'm reading this book. It's so cool.
I'm here in Berlin. I have no Internet presence or anything like that. And again, I'm just like this, you know, random person living in Berlin.
I was trying to figure out what could be a way that I could reach out and hang out with someone like Jake without just being like, hey, can we grab a coffee? And I read this article from Ryan Holiday. It's called the Canvas Strategy. Have you ever heard of this?
it's like a systematic way to figure out how to deliver value to people who are ahead of you. And one of the things it talks about is that if you're the person who can clear the path for those in front of you, you can also kind of choose the direction, which is a cool way of thinking about it. And so what I actually did is... First of all, I had to come up with an excuse to be in San Francisco.
So I offered to talk at this kind of design and tech conference in Silicon Valley. This was an offer to do this for free, of course. And then I was in the region. And what I did is I reached out to Jake and I said, I have an idea of something to pitch you that I think would benefit you spreading the word of Sprint all around the world. It would also make you money.
And I've taken care of like 90% of the details already. And he was like, cool. So I went to the GV office and pitched him this idea of traveling around the world and teaching design sprints. But I would use my marketing skills to sell out the event so that he wouldn't have to think about it. And I would take on the really annoying part of setting up the locations and doing all of that stuff.
We're doing this again? Are you giving it a name yet? Is it Sipping Time?
He was like, yes. And this, first of all, we became really good friends. And this opened up. So many doors to me that I could never have imagined. A lot of the Silicon Valley clients that we work with today are because of that relationship that I built with Jake. But initially, instead of just being like, hey, can we grab a coffee?
I really deeply thought about what types of things he might find interesting and thought about like, what's going to be really annoying if he wants to go and teach this around the world? Locations, filling those locations. And so I just presented an option to him that was super easy and cleared the path for him spreading the knowledge of Sprint around the world.
And that was a cold, pretty much a cold outreach from me to the team at GV. I didn't even have Jake's email address. I just emailed GV. And this is the kind of thing I do all the time. What's maybe one or two examples from you? So...
Hey, everyone. I'm here to ask Greg questions. The things that maybe you've been asking him on comments and Twitter are things you've been wondering about. And I think this is the show where occasionally, depending on when Greg wants to do it, he's the one being interviewed and not guests being interviewed. You know what I mean?
Get a new name, but it's okay.
Oh, that's good.
Nah, it's shit. I don't like it. Nah. Nah, it's shit. I thought about it again. I don't like it.
Mr. Rivers Cuomo.
My eight sleep hates when I do this.
Fuck, man. There's so many things you just said that we need to talk to your audience about here. That's amazing. Two things. One, you did something that I don't even know if you know there's a label for. There's this when you're reaching out to people who are, let's say, who in this case, you were trying to reach up to this person.
There's this concept, and I think it was Daniel Priestley, again, I keep referencing this guy, who came up with this concept of with or without you energy.
With or without you... That's true. I didn't actually think about that. That's probably where it came from. So this idea of with or without you energy, when you reach out to someone, you don't want to be like... What's his name again? Not Bono. What's his name? John Rossman? John... Whatever. The Wheatus guy, right? Wheatus? Weezer? Weezer? Rivers Cuomo? The guy... Rivers... John Waters?
I watched the episode we did that came out on Sunday. I was looking at the comments and I forgot we talked about this constipation thing. We talked about doing the reverse Brian Johnson where you try to get your age markers up as high as possible so you die as early as possible. I think that's going to be game-changing for some people.
All right. Like... Okay. So... So you reach out to Rivers. And if you were like, hey, love your music, whatever, love your art. Can I come visit you? He'd probably be like, go. That's weird. But if you already say that... The important thing is you're kind of like, I am there. That is something I already do. And it would be something that is just on my way. It's on my journey.
That makes it seem less intense for people. One example of this for me... It's a bit weird to mention this online or on the podcast, but I think he wouldn't mind it. I really wanted to meet Noah Kagan and just saying, I'm in Austin. Not like a week before or two weeks before. Just, I'm here right now. And I was also looking around what he's looking for. He wanted help with his YouTube channel.