Jonathan Swan

And when the top two security directors at USAID tried to stop members of the Musk team from entering a secure area to get classified files, they were placed on administrative leave. Katie Miller, who works on the Musk Initiative, said on X that no classified material was accessed without proper security clearances. But by Monday, USAID was effectively paralysed. And...

Musk has said that the president agreed that we should shut it down.

Musk has said that the president agreed that we should shut it down.

Well, remember, it's Congress, not the president, that gets to decide how to structure the executive branch of government. And Congress has enacted laws that says USAID should exist as an independent establishment. So this is running directly into very serious legal questions and questions about whether Congress... is going to assert itself as Trump basically runs roughshod over the institution.

Well, remember, it's Congress, not the president, that gets to decide how to structure the executive branch of government. And Congress has enacted laws that says USAID should exist as an independent establishment. So this is running directly into very serious legal questions and questions about whether Congress... is going to assert itself as Trump basically runs roughshod over the institution.

Right. And in terms of Musk's own authority, he's effectively unaccountable because Trump has given him his blessing. It's not like Trump is really interested in the minutia of the United States digital service or the treasury payment system or all of these pretty wonky and in some cases quite obscure parts of government that Musk and his team are taking control of.

Right. And in terms of Musk's own authority, he's effectively unaccountable because Trump has given him his blessing. It's not like Trump is really interested in the minutia of the United States digital service or the treasury payment system or all of these pretty wonky and in some cases quite obscure parts of government that Musk and his team are taking control of.

He keeps Trump, you know, abreast. He drops into White House meetings. He has an office in the West Wing. He'll go into the Oval, talk to Trump on the phone. But even like senior members of the White House staff have found themselves in the dark about what he's doing and trying to figure out after the fact what

He keeps Trump, you know, abreast. He drops into White House meetings. He has an office in the West Wing. He'll go into the Oval, talk to Trump on the phone. But even like senior members of the White House staff have found themselves in the dark about what he's doing and trying to figure out after the fact what

One Trump official that one of my colleagues talked to who only spoke on the condition of anonymity said that Musk was widely seen as operating with a level of autonomy that almost no one can control.

One Trump official that one of my colleagues talked to who only spoke on the condition of anonymity said that Musk was widely seen as operating with a level of autonomy that almost no one can control.

Exactly. So you now have a situation where you have an entire federal agency that's responsible for delivering aid around the world, where employees there are in a state of... confusion, anxiety. They don't know whether their agency will exist. Sure doesn't look like it will. And no one can say this is a surprise.

Exactly. So you now have a situation where you have an entire federal agency that's responsible for delivering aid around the world, where employees there are in a state of... confusion, anxiety. They don't know whether their agency will exist. Sure doesn't look like it will. And no one can say this is a surprise.

Trump campaigned on this, that we shouldn't be spending money overseas, that we should cut our foreign spending, and has been very clear that he intended to do this. So while there are really serious legal and Nobody who's been reading our coverage and listening to Donald Trump for the last four years should have any level of surprise that he's doing this.

Trump campaigned on this, that we shouldn't be spending money overseas, that we should cut our foreign spending, and has been very clear that he intended to do this. So while there are really serious legal and Nobody who's been reading our coverage and listening to Donald Trump for the last four years should have any level of surprise that he's doing this.

Well, USAID makes up less than 1% of the federal budget. It spent about $38 billion in fiscal year 23. Elon Musk has said that their success will be measured on how many dollars per day they slash from federal spending. So they are looking for dollars everywhere, but there's definitely an ideological component here. Elon Musk has called USAID evil.

Well, USAID makes up less than 1% of the federal budget. It spent about $38 billion in fiscal year 23. Elon Musk has said that their success will be measured on how many dollars per day they slash from federal spending. So they are looking for dollars everywhere, but there's definitely an ideological component here. Elon Musk has called USAID evil.

That's not just saying, oh, there's $38 billion we want to trim out. No, this is an evil institution in his mind. And if you are looking for the platonic ideal of an agency that cuts against the quote-unquote America first agenda, it's probably the agency that sends money in foreign aid overseas. The White House sent out a list of

That's not just saying, oh, there's $38 billion we want to trim out. No, this is an evil institution in his mind. And if you are looking for the platonic ideal of an agency that cuts against the quote-unquote America first agenda, it's probably the agency that sends money in foreign aid overseas. The White House sent out a list of

of things that they say that the USAID is doing that do not align with the president's agenda. They picked out, you know, examples that relate to diversity, equity, and inclusion around the world. And