Jonathan Swan

of things that they say that the USAID is doing that do not align with the president's agenda. They picked out, you know, examples that relate to diversity, equity, and inclusion around the world. And

Basically, the impression that the White House has sought to create in the public mind is this is a quote-unquote woke agency run by radical lunatics, in Trump's words, that is spreading left-wing gender ideology around the world, and we're going to shut it down to save taxpayer money.

Basically, the impression that the White House has sought to create in the public mind is this is a quote-unquote woke agency run by radical lunatics, in Trump's words, that is spreading left-wing gender ideology around the world, and we're going to shut it down to save taxpayer money.

So it's really interesting. After Trump won the election, won the popular vote, Democrats have been just a mess, you know, divided, everyone coming up with different theories about why they lost, depressed, some of them capitulating. But we've just seen in the last few days the resistance starting to awaken. And it's actually not Trump who's awakened them. It's oddly Elon Musk.

So it's really interesting. After Trump won the election, won the popular vote, Democrats have been just a mess, you know, divided, everyone coming up with different theories about why they lost, depressed, some of them capitulating. But we've just seen in the last few days the resistance starting to awaken. And it's actually not Trump who's awakened them. It's oddly Elon Musk.

We're starting to see organized labor rally against him. You're seeing lawsuits being filed.

We're starting to see organized labor rally against him. You're seeing lawsuits being filed.

You saw protests in D.C. outside the buildings of OPM, USAID and the Treasury.

You saw protests in D.C. outside the buildings of OPM, USAID and the Treasury.

Democratic members of the Senate, who've been pretty quiet since the election, are starting to voice their outrage about what Musk is doing.

Democratic members of the Senate, who've been pretty quiet since the election, are starting to voice their outrage about what Musk is doing.

You're starting to see the resistance, which had been really in hiding since the election, start to emerge again.

You're starting to see the resistance, which had been really in hiding since the election, start to emerge again.

Now, people have been predicting for weeks that Trump and Elon Musk would fall out, that this relationship would not be sustainable. It's actually been much more durable than many people thought. Trump almost entirely speaks very warmly of Musk in private. But he did sound a little bit of a cautionary note on Monday when he was asked about Musk by reporters. And he said...

Now, people have been predicting for weeks that Trump and Elon Musk would fall out, that this relationship would not be sustainable. It's actually been much more durable than many people thought. Trump almost entirely speaks very warmly of Musk in private. But he did sound a little bit of a cautionary note on Monday when he was asked about Musk by reporters. And he said...

quote, Elon can't do and won't do anything without our approval. And he said, if there's a conflict, then we won't let him near it. That's fine to say that, but it's not really what's happening in practice.

quote, Elon can't do and won't do anything without our approval. And he said, if there's a conflict, then we won't let him near it. That's fine to say that, but it's not really what's happening in practice.

Well, I think there's sort of two separate parts to this. One is, is Elon Musk a brilliant entrepreneur who has shown that he is very ruthless about cost-cutting to the point where he's taken several of his companies to the brink of destruction before rescuing them and, in the cases of Tesla and SpaceX, turning them into transformational companies? Yes, yes, all of that is true.

Well, I think there's sort of two separate parts to this. One is, is Elon Musk a brilliant entrepreneur who has shown that he is very ruthless about cost-cutting to the point where he's taken several of his companies to the brink of destruction before rescuing them and, in the cases of Tesla and SpaceX, turning them into transformational companies? Yes, yes, all of that is true.

Where this becomes thorny is we're not talking about an electric car company where, let's say, Elon Musk didn't manage to pull it back from the brink and it failed. Well, the only casualties of that are a slower transition to electric cars, some investors lose their money, some engineers lose their jobs. Not to diminish that, but... Now you're talking about the federal government writ large.