Jonathan Swan

Where this becomes thorny is we're not talking about an electric car company where, let's say, Elon Musk didn't manage to pull it back from the brink and it failed. Well, the only casualties of that are a slower transition to electric cars, some investors lose their money, some engineers lose their jobs. Not to diminish that, but... Now you're talking about the federal government writ large.

So is there the possibility that Elon Musk and Trump could slash huge amounts of money out of the federal government? Yes, of course there is.

So is there the possibility that Elon Musk and Trump could slash huge amounts of money out of the federal government? Yes, of course there is.

The stakes are different, right? You're talking about the country and the federal government. And, you know, you're talking about the public interest. And just take one example, right? Elon Musk leads this effort to send out this email to the entire federal workforce, you know, email saying, basically, we'd love if you would just resign, basically. just think about that for a second.

The stakes are different, right? You're talking about the country and the federal government. And, you know, you're talking about the public interest. And just take one example, right? Elon Musk leads this effort to send out this email to the entire federal workforce, you know, email saying, basically, we'd love if you would just resign, basically. just think about that for a second.

Who are the federal employees that are most likely to take that offer? It's probably people who have options outside, who are sought after, who have technical expertise that is valuable, that private sector companies could benefit from. So you're going to potentially lose actually the thin layer of

Who are the federal employees that are most likely to take that offer? It's probably people who have options outside, who are sought after, who have technical expertise that is valuable, that private sector companies could benefit from. So you're going to potentially lose actually the thin layer of

at the top that is most skilled, most experienced, and potentially most critical to the functionings of government.

at the top that is most skilled, most experienced, and potentially most critical to the functionings of government.

Yes, and the other thing that is challenging with this reporting on Elon Musk is that in this role, it's actually very hard sometimes to discern where the public interest ends and where Elon Musk's private interests begin.

Yes, and the other thing that is challenging with this reporting on Elon Musk is that in this role, it's actually very hard sometimes to discern where the public interest ends and where Elon Musk's private interests begin.

Well, you have the richest man in the world whose companies have billions of dollars worth of contracts with the federal government. I mean, SpaceX, his rocket company, effectively dictates NASA's launch schedule. And you have the president of the United States giving Musk vast power over the bureaucracy that regulates his companies and awards them contracts. The intermingling is extremely tight.

Well, you have the richest man in the world whose companies have billions of dollars worth of contracts with the federal government. I mean, SpaceX, his rocket company, effectively dictates NASA's launch schedule. And you have the president of the United States giving Musk vast power over the bureaucracy that regulates his companies and awards them contracts. The intermingling is extremely tight.

He's shaping not just policy, but personnel decisions. Officially, Musk is serving as a special government employee, according to the White House. But this is a status typically given to part-time outside advisors to the federal government who offer their advice based on their private sector expertise. And So he has not had to divest from any of his businesses.

He's shaping not just policy, but personnel decisions. Officially, Musk is serving as a special government employee, according to the White House. But this is a status typically given to part-time outside advisors to the federal government who offer their advice based on their private sector expertise. And So he has not had to divest from any of his businesses.

He still retains his interest in all his businesses. And he is hardly a part-time advisor offering advice. And that's before we even get to his... foreign conflicts. Tesla has relied to a significant extent on the Chinese government and the Chinese market. So there are just conflicts as far as the eye can see.

He still retains his interest in all his businesses. And he is hardly a part-time advisor offering advice. And that's before we even get to his... foreign conflicts. Tesla has relied to a significant extent on the Chinese government and the Chinese market. So there are just conflicts as far as the eye can see.

And while Trump has asserted that where there's a conflict of interest, they won't allow Musk to play in that area, the bare facts already disprove that.

And while Trump has asserted that where there's a conflict of interest, they won't allow Musk to play in that area, the bare facts already disprove that.

So what they used to exist in this country was the spoil system, was a patronage system where when power changed hands, government was stocked with supporters, people were rewarded benefits.