Jonathan Swan

We're starting to see organized labor rally against him. You're seeing lawsuits being filed.

You saw protests in D.C. outside the buildings of OPM, USAID and the Treasury.

You saw protests in D.C. outside the buildings of OPM, USAID and the Treasury.

Democratic members of the Senate, who've been pretty quiet since the election, are starting to voice their outrage about what Musk is doing.

Democratic members of the Senate, who've been pretty quiet since the election, are starting to voice their outrage about what Musk is doing.

You're starting to see the resistance, which had been really in hiding since the election, start to emerge again.

You're starting to see the resistance, which had been really in hiding since the election, start to emerge again.

Now, people have been predicting for weeks that Trump and Elon Musk would fall out, that this relationship would not be sustainable. It's actually been much more durable than many people thought. Trump almost entirely speaks very warmly of Musk in private. But he did sound a little bit of a cautionary note on Monday when he was asked about Musk by reporters. And he said...

Now, people have been predicting for weeks that Trump and Elon Musk would fall out, that this relationship would not be sustainable. It's actually been much more durable than many people thought. Trump almost entirely speaks very warmly of Musk in private. But he did sound a little bit of a cautionary note on Monday when he was asked about Musk by reporters. And he said...

quote, Elon can't do and won't do anything without our approval. And he said, if there's a conflict, then we won't let him near it. That's fine to say that, but it's not really what's happening in practice.

quote, Elon can't do and won't do anything without our approval. And he said, if there's a conflict, then we won't let him near it. That's fine to say that, but it's not really what's happening in practice.

Well, I think there's sort of two separate parts to this. One is, is Elon Musk a brilliant entrepreneur who has shown that he is very ruthless about cost-cutting to the point where he's taken several of his companies to the brink of destruction before rescuing them and, in the cases of Tesla and SpaceX, turning them into transformational companies? Yes, yes, all of that is true.

Well, I think there's sort of two separate parts to this. One is, is Elon Musk a brilliant entrepreneur who has shown that he is very ruthless about cost-cutting to the point where he's taken several of his companies to the brink of destruction before rescuing them and, in the cases of Tesla and SpaceX, turning them into transformational companies? Yes, yes, all of that is true.

Where this becomes thorny is we're not talking about an electric car company where, let's say, Elon Musk didn't manage to pull it back from the brink and it failed. Well, the only casualties of that are a slower transition to electric cars, some investors lose their money, some engineers lose their jobs. Not to diminish that, but... Now you're talking about the federal government writ large.

Where this becomes thorny is we're not talking about an electric car company where, let's say, Elon Musk didn't manage to pull it back from the brink and it failed. Well, the only casualties of that are a slower transition to electric cars, some investors lose their money, some engineers lose their jobs. Not to diminish that, but... Now you're talking about the federal government writ large.

So is there the possibility that Elon Musk and Trump could slash huge amounts of money out of the federal government? Yes, of course there is.

So is there the possibility that Elon Musk and Trump could slash huge amounts of money out of the federal government? Yes, of course there is.

The stakes are different, right? You're talking about the country and the federal government. And, you know, you're talking about the public interest. And just take one example, right? Elon Musk leads this effort to send out this email to the entire federal workforce, you know, email saying, basically, we'd love if you would just resign, basically. just think about that for a second.

The stakes are different, right? You're talking about the country and the federal government. And, you know, you're talking about the public interest. And just take one example, right? Elon Musk leads this effort to send out this email to the entire federal workforce, you know, email saying, basically, we'd love if you would just resign, basically. just think about that for a second.

Who are the federal employees that are most likely to take that offer? It's probably people who have options outside, who are sought after, who have technical expertise that is valuable, that private sector companies could benefit from. So you're going to potentially lose actually the thin layer of