Jonathan Swan

Who are the federal employees that are most likely to take that offer? It's probably people who have options outside, who are sought after, who have technical expertise that is valuable, that private sector companies could benefit from. So you're going to potentially lose actually the thin layer of

at the top that is most skilled, most experienced, and potentially most critical to the functionings of government.

at the top that is most skilled, most experienced, and potentially most critical to the functionings of government.

Yes, and the other thing that is challenging with this reporting on Elon Musk is that in this role, it's actually very hard sometimes to discern where the public interest ends and where Elon Musk's private interests begin.

Yes, and the other thing that is challenging with this reporting on Elon Musk is that in this role, it's actually very hard sometimes to discern where the public interest ends and where Elon Musk's private interests begin.

Well, you have the richest man in the world whose companies have billions of dollars worth of contracts with the federal government. I mean, SpaceX, his rocket company, effectively dictates NASA's launch schedule. And you have the president of the United States giving Musk vast power over the bureaucracy that regulates his companies and awards them contracts. The intermingling is extremely tight.

Well, you have the richest man in the world whose companies have billions of dollars worth of contracts with the federal government. I mean, SpaceX, his rocket company, effectively dictates NASA's launch schedule. And you have the president of the United States giving Musk vast power over the bureaucracy that regulates his companies and awards them contracts. The intermingling is extremely tight.

He's shaping not just policy, but personnel decisions. Officially, Musk is serving as a special government employee, according to the White House. But this is a status typically given to part-time outside advisors to the federal government who offer their advice based on their private sector expertise. And So he has not had to divest from any of his businesses.

He's shaping not just policy, but personnel decisions. Officially, Musk is serving as a special government employee, according to the White House. But this is a status typically given to part-time outside advisors to the federal government who offer their advice based on their private sector expertise. And So he has not had to divest from any of his businesses.

He still retains his interest in all his businesses. And he is hardly a part-time advisor offering advice. And that's before we even get to his... foreign conflicts. Tesla has relied to a significant extent on the Chinese government and the Chinese market. So there are just conflicts as far as the eye can see.

He still retains his interest in all his businesses. And he is hardly a part-time advisor offering advice. And that's before we even get to his... foreign conflicts. Tesla has relied to a significant extent on the Chinese government and the Chinese market. So there are just conflicts as far as the eye can see.

And while Trump has asserted that where there's a conflict of interest, they won't allow Musk to play in that area, the bare facts already disprove that.

And while Trump has asserted that where there's a conflict of interest, they won't allow Musk to play in that area, the bare facts already disprove that.

So what they used to exist in this country was the spoil system, was a patronage system where when power changed hands, government was stocked with supporters, people were rewarded benefits.

So what they used to exist in this country was the spoil system, was a patronage system where when power changed hands, government was stocked with supporters, people were rewarded benefits.

With jobs, a series of laws were passed that made the civil service permanent effectively or gave them really strong job protections with the idea being that people develop expertise over a long period of time. These are not inherently political jobs or shouldn't be. And what we're potentially seeing right now

With jobs, a series of laws were passed that made the civil service permanent effectively or gave them really strong job protections with the idea being that people develop expertise over a long period of time. These are not inherently political jobs or shouldn't be. And what we're potentially seeing right now

is the return to that spoil system, to eliminating this permanent bureaucracy and replacing it each time a new president comes in with their cohort. Not just for a thin layer at the top, as happens every administration, but for something, for a much larger group of people. And when you have the richest man in the world leading this effort,

is the return to that spoil system, to eliminating this permanent bureaucracy and replacing it each time a new president comes in with their cohort. Not just for a thin layer at the top, as happens every administration, but for something, for a much larger group of people. And when you have the richest man in the world leading this effort,

still holding his interests in his private companies, still his companies doing billions of dollars of business with the federal government, still with his companies being regulated by the federal government. You have a level of conflict of interest that we've just never seen in the modern era.