Jonathan Swan

So what they used to exist in this country was the spoil system, was a patronage system where when power changed hands, government was stocked with supporters, people were rewarded benefits.

With jobs, a series of laws were passed that made the civil service permanent effectively or gave them really strong job protections with the idea being that people develop expertise over a long period of time. These are not inherently political jobs or shouldn't be. And what we're potentially seeing right now

With jobs, a series of laws were passed that made the civil service permanent effectively or gave them really strong job protections with the idea being that people develop expertise over a long period of time. These are not inherently political jobs or shouldn't be. And what we're potentially seeing right now

is the return to that spoil system, to eliminating this permanent bureaucracy and replacing it each time a new president comes in with their cohort. Not just for a thin layer at the top, as happens every administration, but for something, for a much larger group of people. And when you have the richest man in the world leading this effort,

is the return to that spoil system, to eliminating this permanent bureaucracy and replacing it each time a new president comes in with their cohort. Not just for a thin layer at the top, as happens every administration, but for something, for a much larger group of people. And when you have the richest man in the world leading this effort,

still holding his interests in his private companies, still his companies doing billions of dollars of business with the federal government, still with his companies being regulated by the federal government. You have a level of conflict of interest that we've just never seen in the modern era.

still holding his interests in his private companies, still his companies doing billions of dollars of business with the federal government, still with his companies being regulated by the federal government. You have a level of conflict of interest that we've just never seen in the modern era.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

Predicted.

Predicted.

Well, I don't want to sound obnoxious, but pretty much everything that we wrote is coming to bear.

Well, I don't want to sound obnoxious, but pretty much everything that we wrote is coming to bear.

Thank you. So our first piece in the series was about the expansion of power. This idea of scouring the executive branch, looking for any pockets of independence and removing them. And we're now seeing early examples of Donald Trump doing that, firing officials who might be checks on him. ridding the executive branch of people who may be disloyal to him.

Thank you. So our first piece in the series was about the expansion of power. This idea of scouring the executive branch, looking for any pockets of independence and removing them. And we're now seeing early examples of Donald Trump doing that, firing officials who might be checks on him. ridding the executive branch of people who may be disloyal to him.

You have retribution as a theme that we came back to again and again and again, and you're seeing that play out in many different ways. Some we didn't even imagine, actually. I suppose he defied our capacity for imagination when he decided to pull security details from people he doesn't like who are under active death threats from Iran.

You have retribution as a theme that we came back to again and again and again, and you're seeing that play out in many different ways. Some we didn't even imagine, actually. I suppose he defied our capacity for imagination when he decided to pull security details from people he doesn't like who are under active death threats from Iran.

Besides that, pretty much everything from his immigration agenda to his plans for the Justice Department, introducing figures like Kash Patel, go down the list and immodestly copy-paste our series and you're basically getting what you're getting in the last eight to 10 days.

Besides that, pretty much everything from his immigration agenda to his plans for the Justice Department, introducing figures like Kash Patel, go down the list and immodestly copy-paste our series and you're basically getting what you're getting in the last eight to 10 days.

No, no, I agree with all that. The court pretty clearly directionally is on the path of expanding executive power and having a broad interpretation of Article II power. So they feel confident that this court will in many cases rule in their favor, that these efforts by Congress to restrain the president, to put these checks within the executive branch are unconstitutional. And by the way,