Jonathan Swan

Thanks for having me.

Well, he's immensely powerful. I could make a case that he is one of, if not the most powerful, unelected people in America right now. He is Donald Trump's deputy chief of staff for policy, which, you know, may not sound that impressive, but to take all the jargon away, he is in charge of domestic policy. Full stop.

Well, he's immensely powerful. I could make a case that he is one of, if not the most powerful, unelected people in America right now. He is Donald Trump's deputy chief of staff for policy, which, you know, may not sound that impressive, but to take all the jargon away, he is in charge of domestic policy. Full stop.

So many of the executive orders that you've seen Donald Trump's sign with his sharpie in his first week in office were the work of Stephen Miller. Okay.

So many of the executive orders that you've seen Donald Trump's sign with his sharpie in his first week in office were the work of Stephen Miller. Okay.

That's a big one. And Miller's vision that he's articulated for decades is now translated into these executive actions.

That's a big one. And Miller's vision that he's articulated for decades is now translated into these executive actions.

Well, he actually came to these beliefs very early on. Stephen Miller was talking about this populist nationalist stuff As a child, he grew up in Santa Monica in California in the 90s. He grew up in a fairly comfortable Jewish family. He was at this liberal high school. And he was this provocateur.

Well, he actually came to these beliefs very early on. Stephen Miller was talking about this populist nationalist stuff As a child, he grew up in Santa Monica in California in the 90s. He grew up in a fairly comfortable Jewish family. He was at this liberal high school. And he was this provocateur.

He was already attacking the left and making controversial anti-immigrant statements when he was in high school. And so much so that his classmates made a documentary about him singling him out as a future politician. and he runs for student government.

He was already attacking the left and making controversial anti-immigrant statements when he was in high school. And so much so that his classmates made a documentary about him singling him out as a future politician. and he runs for student government.

And when I heard what he said, I was outraged because that shows... Campaigning on the kids' rights to leave a mess so that the janitors should pick up their trash because they're paid to do so. Wow.

And when I heard what he said, I was outraged because that shows... Campaigning on the kids' rights to leave a mess so that the janitors should pick up their trash because they're paid to do so. Wow.

He complained about the school's Spanish language announcements, complained about, you know, the colourful festivals of minority cultures and described this decline, as he saw it, of a more traditional version of American education.

He complained about the school's Spanish language announcements, complained about, you know, the colourful festivals of minority cultures and described this decline, as he saw it, of a more traditional version of American education.

So all of this that you're seeing now was visible as far back as high school.

So all of this that you're seeing now was visible as far back as high school.

He is extremely hostile to immigrants. He has always, as far back as high school, rejected the idea that immigration is a net positive for America, and he's been very consistent in that.

He is extremely hostile to immigrants. He has always, as far back as high school, rejected the idea that immigration is a net positive for America, and he's been very consistent in that.

And it's worth noting, yes, he grew up in this very liberal environment in Los Angeles, but it was also a moment of a huge influx of immigrants in California where there were many conservatives in the state who were railing against it. So it's not like his ideas were coming out of thin air. And he really plugged into this right-wing ecosystem.