Jonathan Swan

Well, there's two elements to it. So number one is on Capitol Hill. Stephen Miller knows that he's going to need a lot of money. to do what Donald Trump calls the largest deportation operation in American history. That involves building massive detention camps in the desert to hold migrants while you're waiting to fly them out of the country.

It involves a huge amount of resources to round up immigrants, arrest them. So he... very methodically builds relationships in the Republican House and in the Republican Senate. The second category that was really important is rich people. He builds incredible donor relationships and raises a ton of money for the nonprofit, more than $40 million.

It involves a huge amount of resources to round up immigrants, arrest them. So he... very methodically builds relationships in the Republican House and in the Republican Senate. The second category that was really important is rich people. He builds incredible donor relationships and raises a ton of money for the nonprofit, more than $40 million.

But there's a quiet relationship that he builds that only became visible pretty recently. And he still is very secretive about it. And that's his relationship with Elon Musk. So Musk... had been very secretive about his political spending.

But there's a quiet relationship that he builds that only became visible pretty recently. And he still is very secretive about it. And that's his relationship with Elon Musk. So Musk... had been very secretive about his political spending.

He did not want people knowing what he was up to, but he was secretly funding a bunch of advertising against transgender rights and other issues, and Stephen Miller's group was associated with this spending. So he was operating in secrecy as an advisor, political advisor, Donations advisor to Elon Musk. Wow. And that relationship became super important as Musk then became all in for Trump and

He did not want people knowing what he was up to, but he was secretly funding a bunch of advertising against transgender rights and other issues, and Stephen Miller's group was associated with this spending. So he was operating in secrecy as an advisor, political advisor, Donations advisor to Elon Musk. Wow. And that relationship became super important as Musk then became all in for Trump and

spent more money than anyone else trying to elect Donald Trump.

spent more money than anyone else trying to elect Donald Trump.

That's right. The first advantage Stephen Miller had in the four years out of power was he had a plan. He had the space to work on policy plans. And that was really evident to me when myself, Charlie Savage, and Maggie Haberman did this big story in late 2023 on Trump's immigration plans. And we did an extensive interview with Stephen Miller.

That's right. The first advantage Stephen Miller had in the four years out of power was he had a plan. He had the space to work on policy plans. And that was really evident to me when myself, Charlie Savage, and Maggie Haberman did this big story in late 2023 on Trump's immigration plans. And we did an extensive interview with Stephen Miller.

And if you go back and read our story in New York Times, copy-paste, copy-paste, and it's what you're seeing right now. He had a fully formed vision, and it is exactly what they're doing right now. So he had the plan, but he also had these big thoughts of execution that were really important. It's what I'll just call flood the zone.

And if you go back and read our story in New York Times, copy-paste, copy-paste, and it's what you're seeing right now. He had a fully formed vision, and it is exactly what they're doing right now. So he had the plan, but he also had these big thoughts of execution that were really important. It's what I'll just call flood the zone.

His idea of flood the zone is you do so many things at once, so many aggressive, controversial actions at once, at speed, that your opposition is scattered and almost defenseless. When it's one of 50 or 100 actions that are extremely controversial... There's only so much bandwidth for the opposition to muster resistance, muster resources, muster outrage, muster legal action.

His idea of flood the zone is you do so many things at once, so many aggressive, controversial actions at once, at speed, that your opposition is scattered and almost defenseless. When it's one of 50 or 100 actions that are extremely controversial... There's only so much bandwidth for the opposition to muster resistance, muster resources, muster outrage, muster legal action.

So you just flood the zone. You do so many things at once that your opposition, they might stop some of them, but they can't stop all of them. Overwhelm, overwhelm, overwhelm, overwhelm.

So you just flood the zone. You do so many things at once that your opposition, they might stop some of them, but they can't stop all of them. Overwhelm, overwhelm, overwhelm, overwhelm.

No, I don't think this has anything to do with sloppiness. They knew this was going to get challenged in court. They knew that this was radical, audacious policy. So this is not a matter of sloppiness. This is a matter of them testing the limits and seeing what they can get away with very deliberately.

No, I don't think this has anything to do with sloppiness. They knew this was going to get challenged in court. They knew that this was radical, audacious policy. So this is not a matter of sloppiness. This is a matter of them testing the limits and seeing what they can get away with very deliberately.

It is. I mean, look, they know that some of the actions they're taking are not going to pass legal muster. That's a feature, not a bug. They're doing so many things at once to crack down on immigrants, to deport immigrants, to block immigrants from entering the country, that the aggregate is going to be hugely restrictive, even if certain individual actions fail in the courts.