Jonathan Swan

It is. I mean, look, they know that some of the actions they're taking are not going to pass legal muster. That's a feature, not a bug. They're doing so many things at once to crack down on immigrants, to deport immigrants, to block immigrants from entering the country, that the aggregate is going to be hugely restrictive, even if certain individual actions fail in the courts.

No. If people are searching for internal opposition in the West Wing to the Trump-Steven Miller ideology, you're not going to find them. They don't exist anymore. Where you will find obstacles are in Congress. Republicans have very tight majorities, and we've already seen how dysfunctional the House Republican majority is, and so there's real questions there.

No. If people are searching for internal opposition in the West Wing to the Trump-Steven Miller ideology, you're not going to find them. They don't exist anymore. Where you will find obstacles are in Congress. Republicans have very tight majorities, and we've already seen how dysfunctional the House Republican majority is, and so there's real questions there.

You'll find obstruction potentially in the court system. It's not a given that all their policies will sail through. Frankly, if you're looking for restraint on Stephen Miller's maximalist impulses on immigration in particular... It's Donald Trump.

You'll find obstruction potentially in the court system. It's not a given that all their policies will sail through. Frankly, if you're looking for restraint on Stephen Miller's maximalist impulses on immigration in particular... It's Donald Trump.

Well, he's not as hardcore as Stephen Miller is on immigration. Trump is very sensitive to the stock market. He does not want to see the stock market tank under his tenure. And if there are actions on immigration that would cause inflation, you know, deporting farm workers and others, that's something that's going to really... make Trump think twice about following through.

Well, he's not as hardcore as Stephen Miller is on immigration. Trump is very sensitive to the stock market. He does not want to see the stock market tank under his tenure. And if there are actions on immigration that would cause inflation, you know, deporting farm workers and others, that's something that's going to really... make Trump think twice about following through.

And the other one is media coverage. I mean, we saw in term one, he did not tolerate that period of really aggressive, wrenching media coverage, particularly on television about family separation, these horrible images of crying children and what have you. And so Trump backed off that policy. So Trump, in combination with the stock market and media as his kind of own guardrails, he

And the other one is media coverage. I mean, we saw in term one, he did not tolerate that period of really aggressive, wrenching media coverage, particularly on television about family separation, these horrible images of crying children and what have you. And so Trump backed off that policy. So Trump, in combination with the stock market and media as his kind of own guardrails, he

is actually probably the closest thing you have to a restraint on the full Stephen Miller ideology.

is actually probably the closest thing you have to a restraint on the full Stephen Miller ideology.

With complete deference. And I'll give you the perfect example of that. There's been this huge debate on the right recently about H-1B visas, these high-skill visas that tech companies love to bring in smart engineers and what have you from overseas. Stephen Miller has spent a good deal of his adult life rallying against these visas, but Donald Trump supports them.

With complete deference. And I'll give you the perfect example of that. There's been this huge debate on the right recently about H-1B visas, these high-skill visas that tech companies love to bring in smart engineers and what have you from overseas. Stephen Miller has spent a good deal of his adult life rallying against these visas, but Donald Trump supports them.

And from all accounts, Stephen Miller has done very little, if anything, to try to dissuade Trump from that position recently. So I often find when I meet people who never interacted with Stephen Miller, they've only consumed him through Fox News or whatever. They have an impression of him that he is this fire breather, kamikaze pilot, my way or the highway, fight to the death, whatever.

And from all accounts, Stephen Miller has done very little, if anything, to try to dissuade Trump from that position recently. So I often find when I meet people who never interacted with Stephen Miller, they've only consumed him through Fox News or whatever. They have an impression of him that he is this fire breather, kamikaze pilot, my way or the highway, fight to the death, whatever.

actually the opposite, extremely pragmatic, a very canny political survivor. You don't survive as long as he has in Trump's inner circle without being like that because the person you're working for, Donald Trump, does not really have firm principles or firm ideology. He's completely transactional. He's got a few gut impulses. And if you think that you can...

actually the opposite, extremely pragmatic, a very canny political survivor. You don't survive as long as he has in Trump's inner circle without being like that because the person you're working for, Donald Trump, does not really have firm principles or firm ideology. He's completely transactional. He's got a few gut impulses. And if you think that you can...

shift him on everything, you turn out like Steve Bannon. You don't stay in his inner staff circle. So he has learned how to operate in Trump world and how to survive in Trump world. And that's why he is one of the originals who still remains and is one of the most effective members of the current staff.

shift him on everything, you turn out like Steve Bannon. You don't stay in his inner staff circle. So he has learned how to operate in Trump world and how to survive in Trump world. And that's why he is one of the originals who still remains and is one of the most effective members of the current staff.

His gut remains the same, but he's learned a lot. He's learned a lot about how to get what he wants. And knowing that you're not going to get everything you want, and knowing that you might have to set aside a fight for the moment because the person that is most important to you, Donald Trump, may not agree, and you know that you're a staffer and you work for him...