Joost de Valk

But it's,

I mean, leading marketing for WordPress is a lot of work, but it doesn't have to be all my work.

That's a good question.

I'm not really into business books.

I like novels.

there's a couple I follow deeply Elon Musk but that's probably the most mentioned one name like an under the radar one maybe in the Netherlands that people may not have heard of well it's funny there's actually a local guy here who runs a 300 person company but he's done so well in making themselves controlling teams within that company that is really impressive and I talk to him about that relatively often yeah so what's the company what's his name

The company is called Moderkolk, which you wouldn't know.

It's like a really local industrial company.

I'm looking on his last name.

The company name is M-O-D-E-R-K-O-L-K.

Yeah, it's a good example of how a relatively local company can build something really useful and have small teams that steer themselves and are basically self-controlling units entirely.

I really like seeing that.

Um...

So a lot of it, I mean, I'm an SEO guy.

So I'm going to say google.com and actually searching for stuff and looking at what's there and what's missing and what people are searching for and are missing.

Sorry, again?

Seven.

Um, my 20 year old self should probably start a company sooner.

2010.

So, uh, 28, 28.