Jordan Schneider

I mean, the amount of like hand-wringing I've read from Chinese CEOs saying,

we need to do more like basic research.

Like we can't just let the, let the foreigners like steal a march on us.

I mean, there is angst about this fact that all of the breakthroughs seem to come out of California as opposed to, you know,

zhejiang province um that uh i think the the sort of tech leaders as well as um you know she himself and and the heads of sort of chinese science bureaucracies aren't necessarily comfortable with i mean i think there are some unique dynamics in china in terms of like the fact that is it is a protected market right like open ai and anthropic their models like you cannot have like

Well, I mean, people are like fucking around and trying to get around it.

But like ostensibly, the Chinese government has banned them from having direct access to consumers in China.

So you can't build a domestic business in China off of a cloud API, which just like this wouldn't work for Abu Dhabi.

Right.

But like it's big enough that that opens up the Chinese ecosystem to have another round of what you just had.

in the US where you went from like having Mistral or whatever be a player to like, you know, consolidating down to a few.

So all of that to say, like when you see all these open source models coming out of China, I think that is less like design than that is like market dynamics of like, look, if you have a worse model and you try to sell it and get people interested in around the world, like they're not going to pay for it, right?

Because you have stuff which is cheaper and more performant coming out of the closed labs in the US.

So in order to gain a sort of relevance or market share, you're going to have to

go in a different direction.

I think Jeff's right, but it's also nice to have the thing first too.

So I don't necessarily think these, these two things are mutually incompatible.

And you know, when it comes to like diffusion, this stuff will diffuse if it is economical and useful.

Right.

And I think the sort of really interesting question to me is how and at what point and to what level are different