Josephine Wolff

What exactly that will look like, how good we'll be at that in this particular political moment, it's, of course, a little bit difficult to predict.

There again, I think there is some advantage to everybody feeling like, oh, we've all basically got access to roughly the same AI capabilities and not we've got the best ones.

And so we're going to refuse to work with you.

And I think it's not clear to me, especially if you sort of follow the trajectory we were talking about before of all of our code is written by AI.

It has lots of backdoors that only AI can find, but they're not going to tell us about them.

I think that's not a great world to live in, but I think it's a world in which a lot of governments are going to find common cause much more than they are right now.

And maybe not even just the AI is the adversary, but if North Korea has the ability to shut down everybody's critical infrastructure, they're probably going to be a lot less restrained about that than a number of other state actors have in the past.

And that might also, you know, prompt a higher degree of cooperation.

So I think another piece of this that to me is important for thinking about that sort of mutual existential outcome is thinking about how much shared digital infrastructure we all use, right?

How many of the same software programs are...

running on our computers all over the world, how many of the same devices we're relying on.

And I think a lot of the security progress in this space is going to have to come from really close collaboration with those companies.

And so I think, you know, the cyber red phone, I think there might even have been like a China Daily op-ed

advocating for that 10, 15 years ago.

I like that idea, right?

I think it makes sense to me that there would be some avenue for really trying to focus specifically on these issues and not getting too mired down in everything else going on between these countries at any given moment.

But I also think we need to do a much better job

of thinking about how do you bring the private sector into those discussions?

How do you both sort of respect and defer to their expertise and also not leave governments kind of completely on the sidelines as we're trying to decide what kinds of restrictions and constraints we want to put on these systems?

And think really seriously about what those constraints are.