Josh (also known as J-Web)

is incredible for what you get.

And it does have great value.

They have back straps, mag wells, a phenomenal trigger out the box.

They're optic ready, so you don't have to worry about getting an optic cut.

uh, depending on the model, like I know the meta prime that we're talking about, the specific one, that one has that full like box setup thing.

The holsters do do it's trash.

It's not great.

Um, but if you wanted to use that, you could, um, as an option.

Um, so if we wanted to save some bucks here and there for me, if I was looking at, um, if I was looking at, uh,

Not a slim line.

I'm a little torn on what to get because if I'm looking at 850, I'm thinking of, can I get an optic out of this?

Or can I get a class out of this?

And most classes are...

Call it $200 for the most part, $150, $200 for a decent entry-level concealed carry class.

You could also take, instead of necessarily taking classes in person with LiveFire, you could always do virtual classes online.

I know there's a few guys like Tom Castro online.

um joe farewell a few others have online classes um that you can just download and use um you're only as good as you are with your honesty to yourself um so i would i would say that uh you know and and so as far as a concealed carry setup i would say that you know as far as the the a bigger gun um

I don't know, man.

I think the M&P is what I tell most people just because of its natural aim and point and shootability.

Even the newer models have good triggers in them, so you don't have to get the Apex.