Josh Dubin

And it just doesn't happen in our criminal justice system.

Or that there's some like – it's for people that are like fucking off and, you know, the others that do drugs, that whole mentality.

So, yeah.

Listen, I mean –

You talk about like looking up at the mountain and saying, can I scale it?

I think what you have to do, and I'm talking about this, all it takes is one state, one municipality, one person who says that's interesting.

Show us the literature.

We have this amazing policy director here.

at the Perlmutter Center named Sarah Chu, and she's in the trenches having these arguments, having these fights, trying to get forensic labs, you know, ensuring that they have the proper training accreditation so that they're not introducing, you know, various forms of junk science.

All it takes is just the effort going forward to try to start pushing that boulder uphill, or else, you know, again, this goes to,

You know, the incoming hatred in a situation like we had here is like, what the fuck are you doing to help try to make the situation better?

Because just calling names and pointing fingers and saying you fucked up or this person that we threw away is not worth saving.

Listen, everybody has made some mistake that they wish other people didn't know about.

you know and it's not always homicide obviously but a lot of people have done something that but for the grace of god go i right um where if somebody was looking if law enforcement was looking it could be you that was there and would you want a second chance

Would you want redemption?

Would you want the help to overcome whatever demons?

And I just think why psychedelics aren't looked at.

Ketamine, the little bit that I did,

Going through a dark time, it almost snapped me in a different direction.

And, I mean, I, you know, you urged me on to it.