Josh Dubin

So I don't...

We're trying to formulate a plan to normalize mental health counseling in prison.

So Derek and I are doing a town hall at Shawangunk, which is a pretty rough prison in New York, on December 6th, to try to get some of the inmates to understand that it's okay to ask for this help.

I think when they see Derek and hear his story, it's helpful for them.

The fact that you would even think that that would be controversial I think is just a byproduct of the fact that anything that somebody articulates that's outside of what's considered mainstream is rejected.

Unquestionably, the research is overwhelming.

Overwhelming.

That psychedelics are one of the best, one of the best, most effective therapies for PTSD.

My therapist has, you know, counseled people with PTSD coming back from war and, you know, has...

espouse not only the efficacy of it, but how remarkably different it is from conventional therapies in the most positive of ways.

And I could not agree with you more.

I think that if you look at some of the European countries that look at their prison systems as a real rehabilitative model, I mean, we have to decide that.

We talked about the stats, and I'm not

I'm going to, you know, relitigate that here.

But look, we incarcerate people at a higher rate than any other civilization on earth.

So we have to decide as a society, are we just going to throw people away and put them in cages and make them worse, even if they committed the crime?

Or, as you said, are we really going to try to rehabilitate people?

Because some people are getting out no matter what.

whether they have people like me involved and other great people that do this work, but they're gonna get out.

Do you want them out like they were just an animal let out of a cage, or do you want them out where rehabilitation is a cornerstone of their incarceration?