Josh Weisberg

That's right.

That's right.

And that was the first phase was just understanding, like, people need to move from lists to actions so that you're sending a message at the right time in the customer lifecycle.

And then when we had events coming in, we realized we can use those same events to figure out, do these messages work?

Now let's let people do.

Yeah, it was a SaaS model.

I think when we started out, we didn't quite know where are people going to find the value.

So when you're figuring out pricing, you're figuring out business, where's the value coming from?

That's always an open question is what is the pricing unit?

Where do people derive value from this product?

And I think we kind of felt around a little bit and a lot of other products were using list size.

So we're using how many contacts do you have?

And for us, our big innovation was it's messaged users.

So how many people are actually getting messages?

And it doesn't matter to us how many messages or what channels.

We'll take the number of messages off the table.

We'll take your list size off the table.

It's just about how many people are you actually engaging with and what are they doing because of the messages.

So that was our subscription model.

Yeah, when we started off, we wanted to make a self-service product, which is actually one of the reasons we ended up at Zendesk is that they have that in their DNA too.