Joshua Citarella

And I saw this with Richard Reeves, who was sat there.

American Institute of Boys and Men.

I think he's wonderful.

Very policy wonky, you know, like publicly acceptable face of boys and men.

And

I realized that a lot of the guys that talk about men's issues online feel like they're not being listened to.

So they dial up the volume and the vociferousness of the way that they speak.

And they might be doing it in a slightly different way, but it's the exact same dynamic that causes Greta to dye the rivers of Venice green.

People aren't listening to me.

I must speak louder.

People still aren't listening to me.

I'm going to speak even louder still.

And the problem is that if you start shouting and ranting and raving, you look like a lunatic to a lot of people and it turns lots of them off.

So I think that if you really care about changing minds, even though it's less sexy, and even though you need to do some regulation yourself, because you're like, there's a fucking asteroid.

It is in your interests to remember how behavior change and belief change happens, which is one step at a time.

It's rarely a sky's opening.

And I saw at that moment the Earth was going to... It's not.

You take people along one step at a time.

And I think that throwing soup over a Van Gogh or gluing yourself to the M25 or pouring green dye into the rivers of Venice, I think that those things...

do the opposite.