Julia Shaw

And so Philip Zimbardo has also spoken at length about evil and that all of us are capable of it in the right circumstances.

But he also is a big proponent of what he calls the heroic imagination.

And the heroic imagination is really what the purpose of everything I do is.

The purpose of what I do isn't just to go, oh, this is curious, and to stop there.

The point is to then prevent it.

And to prevent it in ourselves, because that's, I think, ultimately what has to happen.

You can't do a top-down sort of government-level approach to trying to be so tough on crime that no one will ever commit crime.

That's impossible.

But you can change...

So to say to attack you with the hearts and minds of individuals to recognize the pathways towards evil and to go, wait, I'm off track.

I don't want to go this way.

And I'm going to stop myself here and here so I can find my way back.

And so the heroic imagination is exercising that.

I see someone on the street.

How do I make sure that they're okay?

How do I not become a bystander?

And actually the bystander stuff is interesting because there was a really famous case, the murder of Kitty Genovese.

And there were all of these both ear and eyewitnesses.

So an eyewitness is someone who just hears things and an eyewitness is someone who sees the crime happening.

And they didn't intervene in the murder of this woman.