Julia Shaw

It's sort of like teenage boys who are part of gangs, for example, is the other context.

And it's a teenage boy killing another teenage boy.

These are kids.

And the parents of a teenage boy understand that.

They don't think of this other perpetrator as this grown man who has... I don't know.

I think we think of it as...

this fight between the parents of both teenage boys in that case.

But really often what parents want is to just understand how this could happen and in some ways to allow the other teenage boy to still have a life and to not steal theirs as well or his as well.

So there's that restorative justice model where forgiveness, I think, belongs to the families.

Some families, of course, want the most extreme punishment.

That's also, I can understand how that would be a response that's triggered if you've suffered a severe loss.

But if we're looking to make society safer, putting people who have killed in prison is actually not the answer, right?

Because if we want society to be safer, it should be based purely on what is most likely to deter crime and who is most likely to engage in it.

And that's where I think we've got it upside down.

So that episode was all about what it means to espouse certain kinds of views, especially about women, and what it means to be in an environment that is fueling the fire of, well, hatred of gender.

And so, and the idea of entitlement.

So I think one thing that we see often in crimes, of all sorts actually, is the sense of entitlement that drives the perception that I'm allowed to engage in X,

because of something else.

And I deserve to have a life that looks like this, but I don't.

And so I'm going to go take it or I'm going to go do something to show my dissatisfaction in life.