Julia Shaw

So the psychology of environmental crime, I find often boils down to the same kinds of things that we have already been talking about in the context of quote unquote evil, where it's things like conformity.

So doing what you think everyone else is doing or know what everyone else is doing.

So there's an industry where you know that lots of people are cheating or are fudging the facts in some way, then you both feel the need and also maybe rationalize

the ability to also deceive because it's market forces, right?

Like ultimately in a free market or even a controlled one, you've got these people who are just lying to everybody else.

And they're saying, we're getting to these X outcome by following the rules that everyone else is.

And they're not, they're just lying to consumers.

They're lying to the regulators.

They're just lying.

And then other people who are trying to be honest and, you know, play the game clean are

They see the success of this other company and go, well, we want to have what they have.

And then they realize they can't, with the tech that exists, get there.

And so what do they then realize is, well, they must be cheating.

And so then they start cheating.

And so it has this trickle effect of making everyone else fall in line with these ideas.

well, unethical practices that are unethical on so many levels.

And then later you get these huge lawsuits because if you get caught, then everyone's upset.

The investors are upset.

The consumers are upset.

The environmentalists, the lawyers, everybody's upset with you because you have committed this huge crime.