Julianne Schultz

And the chances are you'll get a bigger audience because you're actually finding ways of connecting with that audience.

I think that's had an impact.

Look, I think it's become more normalised.

I think that's the crucial thing.

I mean, look, I remember when I was teaching journalism at the University of Technology in the, whenever it was, decades ago, 1980s, and I'd spent a fair bit of time in the US and the UK, and I remember coming back and teaching a course called Literary Journalism.

And Drusilla Mijeska was teaching in creative writing.

Anne Kurthuis was the head of history.

And I was running the journalism stuff.

And we sort of synthesized that sort of literary journalism thing into something which drew on history, creative writing, and journalism.

So that's been something that I've been interested in for a long time.

And it's been around in the ether forever.

I think that's just what's happened, is that people have become more accepting of that, more open to it, more interested in it.

Authors have been prepared to be more intimate in the revelations that they make, and readers are looking for that sort of authenticity.

So the problem is, from where I come at it, because I'm sort of interested in where it goes, it is about big issues.

Yeah.

It was always there as an essential part of it.

I mean, partly that was because of the influences that we'd looked at in terms of creating it.

So I guess in many ways Grant was the best example of that at the time.

The English journal.

The English journal Grant, yeah, which did serious reportage, did some analysis essays and a lot of fiction and a bit of memoir.