Jum Wallner

And...

It's not that big a place.

It didn't take us that long, actually, to find someone who knew someone very close to Barr.

And all we wanted them to do, and this is what I guess professional lobbyists do, so we weren't doing anything wrong, was to say, this letter's coming.

It's got a ticking clock.

You're going to look really bad if someone dies and you haven't replied.

Have a look at it.

This became even harder in the second half of the campaign when we lobbied the feds, but it was very challenging with Barr.

An ABC story about Jum aired at exactly the right time.

There was an election coming up in... This was 2020.

We were in August.

There was an election coming up in October, so we thought that was good.

Mr Fluffy is like a...

a very emotive issue in Canberra.

So it wasn't long before John and Bruce got a meeting with the Chief of Staff, Andrew Burr's Chief of Staff.

Well, because ideally in a democracy, you know, between us we all knew people and one of them happened to have some connection to Barr's, I think it was Deputy Chief of Staff, and that's not fair, is it?

It could have just been as likely as someone with an equally worthy cause didn't have that.

I mean, maybe ministers have an amazingly good triage system, but it felt like...

in both steps, both legs of our campaign, that that was pretty important.

And it shouldn't be, but if you're doing something important, you've got to use what you've got.