Jum Wallner

We started seeking supporters.

I found someone who could, knew someone at the AMA, the Australian Medical Association.

They wrote a letter of support.

The ACTU wrote a letter of support.

Bill Cruz, the Australian of the Year, James Muecke, many, many medical organisations, legal organisations, the Ethics Centre.

I was just going everywhere I could looking for letters that I thought

following Greg Conbay's advice, that the health minister, you know, he can ignore the AMA, but at least he's got to read a letter from the AMA.

Same with the ACTU, right?

And just trying to build that community support, trying to talk to Greg Hunt's advisor, Sam, whenever I could, whenever he was available, and just talk to him for as long as I could, try and find out what their process was.

You know, in the book, I kind of liken it to standing at the bottom of a castle trying to work out what's happening inside the castle just from seeing the odd soldier walk between turrets.

Like we just got glimpses.

It really is, yeah.

And I'd write down everything Sam said and then I'd read it back and…

And then I get really – like Sam was being really nice to us and it made me quite hopeful and I thought he's trying to push this.

But then as soon as I thought that, I thought, well, it's not his call anyway.

And, of course, he's probably nice to everyone who's lobbying him so that when they say no, they don't blame Sam.

You know, they think he's still a good guy.

So –

Exactly.

Yeah, well, we thought there was an A&E study that estimated there would be one or two victims every year of the Mr Fluffy houses.