Jum Wallner

Like, when people are on a huge dose of painkillers and they're dying, it's worth doing.

Everyone, like, one of the themes of my book is to lean in, not out.

Like, it's hard to lean in, but it's so much better.

I've leant out before when people have been dying.

Really, really regret it.

And as soon as I left his house, I rang both governments and said, if you want to do it before he dies, you've got to do it really quick.

And the next day, Zed Cecilja, the Liberal Senator for Canberra, who'd been pushing our barrow and helping with this, he arranged a call with Chum.

The day after that, they had the call.

They announced that it would happen, that the two governments had combined to take care of victims.

Well, no, we had succeeded in doing what we wanted.

Of course it was bittersweet because, you know, he was dying and soon after he was dead.

But, you know, he knew what he'd done and the benefits of that scheme, it'll help people for decades to come.

He knew that and that's really good.

No, it's a natural human reaction.

It's how we, you know, like anything, if it goes on for a very, very long time, it can turn into depression.

But the process of grief is not at all like that.

It's us acknowledging that someone was important to us and spending some time with their memories and feeling sad.

I think the bravest people, you know, people who've lost their partner or spouse and then they remarry or repartner

they know there's a 50-50, 50% chance it'll happen again, that their partner will die before them and they're brave enough to love again.

Exactly.