Justin Ishbia

They get options in their company.

If it goes well, they do well.

And they also get a chance to invest in those businesses.

But the math of them, I say, is they've had now nine times that someone's off the board become a CEO for us.

When they see you, if you get it right, they look at it and say, okay, median returns in the product industry, pretty good as two times your money.

I think that's a good fund to most returns.

And so our math, we say, is

For us, if you can be a CEO of a large business that has now $200 million or $300 million equity behind it, it is quite common to have an equity option pool that in a 2.5 times cash on cash, they can have a $20 million outcome.

That is a middle of the fairway, I think, for a lot of CEOs.

You can make that as part of the market by the cash on cash profile, getting it right.

And it is oftentimes...

higher probability of success, especially when you can recruit talent.

Give me the CEO that can go recruit his or her network of two or three awesome people to come to this part of the market.

They see the opportunity and return profile could be six, seven, eight, nine times your money because of multiple arbitrage, because of operational improvements, because of the opportunity to invest in these little businesses that have many things left on the table.

that founders know that should be done, but they don't want to take the risk themselves, and appropriately so.

It's middle of the fairway for us to have three founders who, one is 65, one is 55, one's 45.

The guy's 65, more risk averse.

The guy's 45, one's leaning a little bit more.

Great.

We can partner in that dynamic and give them some real upside and give them a chance to differentiate.