Justin Webb

sending that hatred back in the other direction.

And that's the thing that got Scott involved.

And we should say Scott Galloway, I mean, he's a kind of, for me, he's like interviewing Taylor Swift, would be Sarah, because I listen to a lot of Scott Galloway.

I certainly don't agree with everything he says or endorse everything he says on a wide range of topics.

And he's someone who is a very powerful figure, I think it's fair to say, in the way that figures now can be powerful, who aren't part of the political setup in the US, but

have these big platforms where they can really have an influence.

And he is a supporter of the Democrats.

He wants Democrats to do well.

He doesn't think much of Donald Trump.

But he has got this knowledge as well of the manosphere that you're talking about.

It didn't work with him though, did it?

Because he tried to straddle a load of things, and this I think goes to... It's really interesting that you bring that up because I think one of the things...

that I think is true is, yes, you don't want to have some sort of ludicrously kind of highfalutin conversation about what it means to be a man or what it means to be a woman, but actually what it means to be a citizen is something that Americans...

often feel they don't properly think about now.

And one of the things that it would mean to be a citizen in a better functioning America is the ability to make moral judgments about each other and stand by them, but not fall out.

Weirdly, we have this conversation on the day or hours after the DNC, Democratic National Committee, is forced into publishing their autopsy, basically, of the 2024 campaign, the one that Kamala Harris fought and lost.

which had been long kept secret.

I mean, they genuinely didn't intend to publish it.

They've kind of been forced into publishing bits of it.

And it goes really to this subject, actually, because it very much reintroduces us to the idea of