Justin Wolfers

I'm just going to give you my top line.

I disagree with you, and it doesn't matter.

You might be right.

And that's fine.

It's true.

When you're saying tactical tariffs, you're saying in this specific industry where there is a specific need, we have a bunch of nerds study it, and they think if we did this for a couple of years, we could get an American company that would be dominant and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Right.

Does that look like what we're doing right now?

So the point is the only thing that the thing you believe in and we're not arguing about tactical tariffs has in common with what the president's doing is the word tariff.

Right.

Well, okay, well, let's go back to the first term and we'll have a look at what the washing machine tariffs did.

The washing machine tariffs raised the price of washing machines.

They raised the price of American-made washing machines as well as foreign-made washing machines.

They had a very, very small impact on employment.

And so basically the American consumer was paying, I have to try and remember the number, I think something like $3 million more in washing machine costs per job created.

That's not correct.

It's not a good one for you, Zach.

We don't need to beat Zach up here, which is... No, no, no, we can.

He left in place a lot of these tariffs.

So-called tactical.