Karen Palmer

Maybe I could be his girlfriend.

When I think back on it now, I think often, you know, what did he think he was doing with somebody my age?

How old was he?

He was 36 to my 17.

He was doing things that I wasn't aware of.

He was selling stolen merchandise.

And I did know that he had multiple forms of identification.

He had several driver's licenses in different names.

And I was just kind of flabbergasted at it.

But he would pull that out at parties, like a party trick, that he had been able to do this.

And I thought it was just a party trick.

You know, you have the frog being put into water, and then the water boils.

That's the standard metaphor that people use.

I think of the things that went on between us as I wasn't physically abused in the way where I was, you know, beaten.

The abuse was more, I guess what they call now, coercive control, though there were physical elements to it.

You know, he could be bullying and looming and shoving and, you know, doing that kind of stuff.

And I didn't know anyone who was a victim of domestic violence, and so it never occurred to me, and I didn't think of myself that way.

At some point, it became clear to both of us that we were unhappy in our marriages.

And we just kind of looked at each other and thought, oh...

You know, we had very strong feelings for each other.