Kate Hulett

That's where the internet came out of that kind of period.

And

We are so bound on like, well, if I give you money, I need either to have my name on it as naming rights or something, or I need to have some economic, direct economic benefit.

But actually those things you can't really measure because you're

You can't quantify vibe and the fact that lots of people want to move here or come and visit here because there's these great things to see and experience.

And we need to be better at that kind of measurement of the heart and soul and happiness and attractiveness.

Absolutely.

And I've been speaking about this a lot with different groups of people who I work with and I think it's there's

People, particularly leaders, group culture and the arts as one word, like culture and the arts, whereas actually arts is one thing, music, painting, dance, poetry, whatever.

And then there's culture, which is the way we exist in a place, what we can see and taste and touch and feel.

how many trees, what the pathways are like, what the city looks like.

We just think culture exists but it can be amended and shaped and formulated and I'm really interested in that and I think that's where we fall down.

We get art but the culture feeds into that, you know, the culture of experimentation and enabling and saying yes and allowing people to try and grow and fail and experiment gives us the best art.

I mean, it definitely goes in ebbs and flows.

I mean, I think people probably would have said in the 60s this was a thriving hub in its way.

particularly musicians I think in the 60s and 70s, I guess there's different value put on the different outputs because now our value is really in sport.

You know, we put all our money into refurbishing sports grounds and changing rooms and beach toilets and that sort of stuff.

But we don't.

I guess, and I've been thinking about this a lot as well recently because I saw a stand-up comedian and then I saw a film that kind of critiqued our way, you know, the world, capitalism, whatever.

And so much of art and culture is a reflection of the world we live in.