Katherine Boyle

Yeah, and I think there's the famous sort of economic security is national security.

You hear that all the time in Washington.

And it really is like technological supremacy is national security.

And so if you really believe that, Xi Jinping has said this, Vladimir Putin said this, he who owns AI will own the world, right?

If you really believe that,

Why wouldn't you be infiltrating every single one of our major research labs?

Why wouldn't you be just maniacally focused on getting this information out of people?

And if you've already set up a 30-year ecosystem where it's been very easy for Chinese researchers to come to Stanford or Berkeley or places like that, and it's been very...

The universities have taken funding.

I can't remember the name, but Stanford got in a lot of trouble for having this sort of center devoted to Chinese cultural understanding and different things, and it was clearly funded by the CCP.

And the universities say, oh, well, it's fine.

We're taking capital for Chinese cultural understanding.

It's like, what do you think that's actually being used for?

You know, these are sort of the soft power games and the espionage games that can, you know, over a 30-year period have a striking impact on a culture.

Well, I think there's arguments.

The Silicon Valley argument for it is it's like the golden visa, right?

It's sort of like what happened after the fall of Nazi Germany, and we took the entire sort of

physicist class and all of the great engineers and they made up our space program.

That's sort of the argument is, if you can get all of these exceptional engineers working in American companies, if you can get them at American universities, a lot of them stay and they're brilliant, then they're working on American interests.

And that's the argument that a lot of people make when they say, we can't cut off immigration from other countries because you wanna take, I mean, Palmer says this too.