Ken Hinkley

And Josh Carr didn't want to take it at that stage.

But it was going one way, and that was official.

So speak to me about what you would have liked to have happened in hindsight.

But it got rough.

Were you completely removed from future decisions?

Yes.

So this is the other thing with Michael Voss.

That's the difference.

How often would list management sit for?

Is it once a month?

Does Vossi go to list management?

I guess what we're sort of saying and the awkwardness around that, if there's an inevitability about his role and what we're all thinking is going to happen, then to your point, it's just a brutal position for him to have to keep fronting up in.

You just can't.

You're hostage to your best players.

Exactly.

Particularly when you're not flushed with great depth as it is anyway.

So you're so reliant on a key group of five.

And the key group of five aren't to the level that they were three years ago.

I used to think their best five was as good as anyone, but Wiedering's not that good.

Cripps is not that anymore.