Kenny

against two VFL players a few weeks before that.

Again, the Saints are challenging that ruling, and they'll do so in the next few days.

Sam, let's deal with Zach Butters first.

This has been a talking point all week, and it just strikes me that Butters has been found guilty for two reasons.

One, because the tribunal wants to back the umpires as a default mechanism, and two, because his evidence alongside Ollie Wines wasn't as consistent as the umpire's evidence.

Yeah, so I think that's their plan B. I think that's their plan A. They actually want to clear Zach Butter's name.

One of the things I found most interesting reading the transcript from David Zeta from Fox regarding this tribunal was that...

The one thing that you could hear was the word pay or paid on the audio mic.

You couldn't hear anything else, but you could hear the word pay or paid.

And Zach Butters gave evidence saying that he said, how is that a free kick?

So he didn't even concede that he said the word paid.

So who said the word paid?

It's like the missing word.

It didn't make any sense at the time.

Nick Foote was right.

He did everything by the book.

So Zach Butters wasn't allowed to... Zach Butters wasn't to know this, but Nick Foote wasn't allowed to engage on the report.

On match day, no.

So Nick Foote wouldn't have lied knowing the microphone was on him, and Zach Butters wouldn't have come out as strong as he did thinking there was a microphone there as well.

So you're right.