Kevin McCloud

And she was still a member of that when she died at 89.

Amazing.

And she and some of her anti-war pacifist friends, every Hiroshima Day, they would have a campaign.

They would picket

There was a church in Perth, Wesley Church, they'd stand outside Wesley Church with their anti-nuclear weapon signs and so on.

So I have to say sometimes I'm pleased that she's not around anymore because I think she'd be absolutely horrified if she knew what was going on in the world now.

I'm afraid I can't get rid of it.

Probably, but it hasn't stopped me being given some very interesting jobs or taking on jobs and being involved with things like saving the National Academy of Music or starting Black Swan Theatre Company or cheering the orchestra.

But I'm sure you're not like this because of the jobs that you do, but we do tend to live in a bubble.

As you get older in particular, you live in a bubble because you're comfortable with people.

And also you get sick of arguing.

You don't want to argue with people.

And changing people.

I mean, I have people I don't discuss politics with at all because I will never change their minds.

They will never change my minds.

But there are lots of things we can talk about, you know,

Art, music, family, design, architecture, whatever.

But we just stay away.

Yes, yes.

Yes, yes.