Kit Bennett

That's all done by the deep state.

Politicians aren't involved in that.

What he's done is made it sound like it's malevolent and made Washington sound like a swamp.

And

You know, it just isn't true and it isn't true in New Zealand either, but it is like an iceberg.

The very tip of it is what we see and underneath is what makes the system work, you know.

I'm a long way away from intelligence work nowadays, but, you know, I do understand first principles.

But one of the things that I think you have to do is you have to be able to justify your position.

And I think in many respects, from what I read about what's happening in New Zealand, that I think the service does...

a pretty good job, but you've got to stay on that all the time.

Because if you lose the faith of the people in a modern society, you know, it's very dangerous.

And intelligence services, you've got to have them.

He says as times have changed, there's been something of a shift in public expectation.

In the past, in my time, people would say, you know, what is the SIS doing for its money?

Well, we can't tell you that.

It's a secret, I'm afraid.

And in those days, people would say, well, that's fair enough.

I suppose that's what they do.

Nowadays,

The new generation says, yeah, that's all very well, but what are you doing?