Konstantin Kisin

But but it's in the same way that like if you're a fan of the Green Bay Packers, you're not going to hate Patriots fans.

It was like, well, look, I'm a Democrat.

He's a Republican.

But we sort of are going to be able to get on.

Now it's become tribal in the sense of like this is warfare almost is what it feels like to me.

Yeah, well, it makes a lot of sense.

Although, interestingly, I would have thought in many ways Europe is in a worse place in relation to all of this, because at least in America, you have a history of immigration.

It's kind of understood that this is a nation of people who've come from different parts of the world, different cultures, who've come here and bought into the American dream, which, as you say, is kind of prosperous.

I mean, the American dream is we all get to come here and be prosperous, effectively, right, if you boil it down to its basics.

Whereas in Europe, and I said this as someone who myself immigrated to Europe from outside, you had a society which was very monocultural, very cohesive in terms of all the things that you talk about, language, ethnicity, et cetera, that now...

doesn't even have any structure to explain what a nation state is because it used to be based on common heritage and common culture and common religion.

So now you have lots and lots of people come from other parts of the world who do not buy into that, but they also don't have any story that they tell

And what is the biological and evolutionary source of those concerns?

But you talked about culture being a very powerful force.

Are there not cultural adaptations that can help us overcome these things?

Or is it just something that you feel that's one of the load-bearing walls of human society?

Which they're not.

And what does that look like in our society today?

What would that look like in terms of changes to how we think about things?

That's really interesting.