Konstantin Kisin

There are other people who will say, Louise Perry, for example, who we've had on the show a couple of times, she wrote a book called The Case Against the Sexual Revolution in which she basically said, look, once you invent the abortion pill and washing machines and all of this other stuff,

women are free and they go into the workplace, which might be great, but then they don't have kids and your book's just fallen over, then this is an inevitable product of this.

There are other people who say it's actually the education of women that caused it.

All of these things are going on, and that's maybe why it's so hard to turn around.

But is it your thesis of fundamentally... Sounds like a weird question to ask, but I think it's worth asking if it's true.

If women participate in the labor force more, this is the inevitable consequence, rightly or wrongly.

Well, I'm not sure you can.

I've tried to change many women's minds.

It's never happened.

But the reason I think it's maybe some optimism, like a lot of people I talk to now are sort of going, oh, right.

We're like, we should do this.

We should have kids, men and women.

And so there will be, you know, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, maybe on the one hand.

On the other hand, I worry about, you know, there was this myth of like runaway climate change for a long time.

It's like runaway climate.

infertility or lack of fertility, because if you're not constantly surrounded by young children, you get further and further distance from that experience.

And then you just look on Instagram and you see yet another parent complaining about how hard it is.

And what you don't know

is, well, actually being a parent is great, but also very, very hard.

So yeah, you go on Instagram to complain about it, but you've got all these moments and days and weeks of joy that stays in the background.