Laura Marwick

Matt, you've just referred to having really long-term thinking.

Max, the proposal that yourself and IDEA have put forward, how could we expect to see the impact for New Zealand of that really long-term over decades?

Yeah.

And coming back as well to this idea of trying to address some inequities.

We often kind of compare ourselves to the Australian superannuation system, maybe a bit enviously, but that system maybe has its own flaws.

And something that you've argued is that maybe that actually serves to sort of magnify the inequities that already exist where, you know, a minimum wage earner and someone who's on a really decent salary, they're both contributing 12%.

of these really different incomes.

How can we ensure that we introduce changes in New Zealand so that they lift everyone rather than magnifying that gap again?

It's an election year.

There seems to be a lot of talk about contribution rates as maybe a potential fix.

Matt, do you think that contribution rates, raising those alone is a meaningful solution or what made me missing from that conversation?

And with that issue of participation, the people who are opting out, so your view is that overwhelmingly that's a matter of just like sheer affordability.

These people are under too much financial strain.

They aren't able to sort of spare the funds to plan for something that seems like it's so abstract and far into the future.

I guess there's a question of like, are there other things that we could be doing to try and increase that motivation and get those participation levels up?

Is it a matter of not doing enough education to kind of...

instil some trust around KiwiSaver as a scheme?

Could we make the incentives more tempting?

Mm-hmm.

One interesting finding from Shizi's own membership data is that not only are we seeing people coming onto the Shizi KiwiSaver scheme, switching from other providers, but it's also people who are actually enrolling for the very first time in a KiwiSaver scheme.